MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
FWIW I just ran across Glen Greenwald going on and on and on about this even more unedited data than typical for him. For that reason, I didn't read even damn paragraph carefully, skimmed it. You know how I dislike his work and don't trust him, so believe me that I was very skeptical.
He does make some fairly good points about some of her excuses seeming to go beyond possible reality.
And its clear to me from what he reports about the Wayback people that they just don't agree with her hacking story.
In the end you've got this, I agree with his argument as a gay person, she did admit to, and apologize for, homophobic commentary. What she's arguing about is a matter of degree. How much does that matter, really!! Whether you did it bad or you did it worse? Much ado about nothing if a person apologizes, just watch them that they don't do it again and have truly informed.
I like her a lot as a newsperson, I'm actually a fan. Of her as a pundit, not a journalist. Pundits are gonna have opinions, that's what they do. Not truth. Opinions. No need to spend so much time on it.
If people spend more time on it, truth be told, I am going to get skeptical that she's trying to sell a book or something. Let it go. It's not that important. A pundit/blogger sometimes anchorperson with a rising career and a lot of potential had some hate and was catty about it. Apologized for it. Let it go. One can always chose to not watch her or listen to her.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 7:21am
Yeah, I saw some of this too.
More, ignoring the who, I was intrigued by not only is everything you post out there on the internet forever, it's quite possibly modifiable, so not only do we have to worry about the embarrassing things we said, we have to worry about the ones others fake us to have said (if they cover their tracks well)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 7:54am
Phillip Bump @ WaPo on your point, PP: The Joy Reid fight reinforces how critical the Internet Archive is to modern politics.
But as much as I believe in scholarship and the importance of archives,in this case I still go back to my point that this case is all about punditry and therefore all about image or brand of a pundit. Strikes me as absurd that one would go digging for something a pundit wrote of a different opinion than they do now. You don't like what they are saying now, change the channel, don't read it. It's all about their content today. Not their content production ten years ago.This is not an elected politician or judge who you are stuck with and you have to somehow judge the depth of their soul This is not even a situation of a Hillary Clinton, who supporters must try to help convince the public at large is deep down a good person.
A side note on what I now suspect in this story once I had a minute to think about it. Reid has a lawyer helping her on this. He tells her for her own good to play it that the archive has been hacked, that she was bad and she apologized but she was not as bad as this older stuff. Being a real nitpicky lawyer, often to obnoxious excess, Greenwald notices this and harps on it. He is actually right in this case that she's getting bad advice. She should have just continued to say: I'm sorry for all of it, I'm a different person now, I have shut down the account, I don't want anyone to see that stuff. Visual artists are known to destroy their "juvenalia" and writers to destroy their early manuscripts for the very same reason. Where we have destroy buttons on content published on the internet by our very own selves, we should be able to wipe that clean. Once we sell that that content to another party to profit from though, it's forever if they chose to keep it available. No Indian giving.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 3:11pm
Yeah, it's strange, fast as things changing we have to be consistent 10 years, 20 years, prescient even - no "evolving on the issues".
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 4:12pm
I rest my case, that it matters with people selling themselves as an infotainment brand what they are doing and saying now, today, with this:
Rapper Kanye West calls Trump ‘my brother’ — ‘very cool!’ Trump responds @ WaPo, April 25, 3:51 pm
There's no business like show business. And especially always to keep in mind for all of these folks: no such thing as bad publicity. Even to the point that a boycott by one tribe might sometimes get you a brand new one....
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 4:35pm
Kanye has a history of opioid addiction. He last showed up supporting Trump after being released from hospital for a “nervous breakdown” ............just saying.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/04/25/kanye-west-abruptly-fires-manager-scooter-braun-fears-about-his-health-emerge.html
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 5:00pm
Got ahead of myself reading, and thought/read for a moment Kanye had called Trump "my nigger". That would have been humorous. This other, about as boring as the usual Kanye obnoxycontin.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 5:23pm
all that your comment and rmrd's made me think is that Kanye is right, he and Trump are like two peas in a pod, bruthers, homies....except Kanye is having more fun at it, should get the Donald back where he belongs, putting his label on things, stylin and profilin for the oligarch taste....as the the Donald says CLASSY
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 7:44pm
p.s. did ya see where Ivana said yesterday it's about time he comes back to where he belongs? i.e., schmoozing on the golf course, etc.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 7:46pm
p.p.s. I keep seeing news that fits with this meme: Kanye Trump et. al. Here, on Twitter from MSNBC's Deadline White House, the perfect job for him (mho, especially as I have zero respect for the pro football biz):
"(Trump) is obsessed with the NFL ... he's wanted in for a long time ... Robert Kraft, like a lot of these guys, is a politician & they will not always be the same in public as they are in private"
and
"Trump does what a lot of people do: He wonders why black Americans that play football would be worried about injustice & brutality when they're rich ... " -
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:02pm
turning the whole Kanye Trump two peas in a pod thing over to Katie Rogers @ The New York Times
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:17pm
Agreed.
by barefooted on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:00pm
Kanye West doesn’t care about black people.
https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/kanye-west-doesnt-care-about-black-people-1825550492
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:57pm
We spent the last few months watching our tech giants crash and burn, showing they were clueless or deceptive or both, and definitety money grubbing and in not too much of a hurry to come clean, and yet when something like this happens, the tendency is to immediately side with tech, because technology doesn't make mistakes.... except sometimes... okay maybe more often than that.. but not a lot. well, maybe a lot, but not too much a lot, just the necessary part of a lot...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 4:33pm
Glenn Greenwald thinks that he is the pure Progressive voice. He appears on Tucker Carlson to criticize Liberals. Greenwald dismisses the Russian hack.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/zeal-to-go-on-tv-has-warped-media-greenwald-tells-tv-host.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/10/18/glenn_greenwald_to_tucker_carlson_journalists_eagerly_being_manipulated_by_intelligence_community_on_russia.html
Black Twitter will have a field day with that.
Greenwald has his own history of controversial statements. He once talked of hordes of immigrants crossing our border. He has since apologized
https://newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:31am
we know all of that. Why are you saying it? What does it have to do with this? Why are you doing smear the messenger in this case?
This is not the case of a total smear campaign against her because she is admitting wrong. If it's a smear, it's just a matter of degree, as she did admit to wrong.
In this case he is correct because she agrees: she did admit and apologize for making homophobic comments. Then he goes on to point out things that are suspicious about her claim about how some things, not all, were not her work.
So people who care about that issue will be watching her from now on to see if she has changed, just based on what she has admitted to already. What Greenwald says isn't going to hurt her more than what she already did herself.
She obviously cares about it or she would say "fuck you all, I don't think gay sex is right." Instead she apologized.
That's really all that matters.This is not even politicians, these are pundits, it's not a team game. They police each other and that's good, we should encourage that.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 9:14am
She apologized. He apologized. I suggested that Greenwald’s attack would generate a response from black people via Twitter. It was predictable. I didn’t check Twitter before making my statement because, the response was so predictable. It was also no surprise that Greenwald’s appearances on Tucker Carlson would be mentioned
When I check Twitter, the response is beginning. I’ll recheck at day’s end.
https://mobile.twitter.com/marcushjohnson/status/988991403534569473
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 9:59am
An LGBT group just rescinded an award to Joy Reid.
Greenwald is getting his desired response.
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/384766-lgbt-group-rescinds-award-for-msnbcs-joy-reid?amp&__twitter_impression=true
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 2:32pm
NYMag weighs in
http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/joy-ann-reids-i-was-hacked-story-doesnt-add-up.html
As does Spin
https://www.spin.com/2018/04/joy-reid-hacker-homophobic-posts-explainer/
As for now Reid will stay on air amid an investigation
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/nbc-news-will-keep-joy-reid-air-investigation-alleged-anti-lgbt-remarks-continues/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 3:45pm
If Joy Reid’s tenure at MSNBC is put in jeopardy, it will be pointed out that Greenwald has no problem appearing on the show of a white supremacist. The fissures on the Left will also come out as the issue of racism among white homosexuals is brought up. It is clear that Greenwald wants a pound of flesh in this issue. It is easy to see where this could go.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 8:15pm
If MSNBC drops Joy over this, they will face pushback.
by barefooted on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 9:00pm
Greenwald appears on Tucker Carlson. He uses the Carlson show as a platform to criticize Liberals. Greenwald has a political agenda. Journalism is not his real occupation.
Edit to add:
If Joy Reid is fired, one clear result will be to create tension between black activists and Gay activists. They may still work on the same campaigns, but there will be a loss of trust.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 11:19pm
MSNBC is providing preliminary data that suggests Reid’s website was hacked.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/25/media/joy-reid-msnbc-host-wayback-machine/index.html
It is possible for the Wayback Machine to be hacked
https://burningbird.net/the-joy-reid-saga-the-wayback-machine-cannot-guarantee-authenticity/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/25/2018 - 9:47pm
That burningbird.net article is very informative, and gives an excellent example of what could have happened.
by barefooted on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 4:02pm
She apologized before, why hire someone to investigate a hack now? Why lie?
I’ll wait for a more thorough review
I remember the media attacking Shirley Sherrod and then having to back off.
I trust Joy Reid more than I trust Glenn Greenwald.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 4:28pm
Cavaet: I didn't read this in full, just skimmed it, because as I said, I just don't think it's that important what she opined in the past, especially after apologies on topic. But just posting it for those more interested:
‘SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE’Claims by Joy Reid’s Cybersecurity Expert Fall Apart
The Daily Beast investigated the MSNBC host’s claims that someone hacked her old blogs to make her appear homophobic and found that the evidence provided crumbles under scrutiny.
By Kevin Poulsen @ DailyBeast.com, 04.26.18 10:00 PM ET
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/27/2018 - 2:42am
What I don't see is a clear list of a few "this is something I didn't write" items.
If it's that hard to pick out, then it doesn't matter anyway.
And yeah, not only are we "evolving" on issues, I also take questionable points of view to delve into matters and elucidate uncomfortable contradictions or unobvious ways of looking at things.
There are good reasons why I use a pseudonym to write. Just yesterday on Twitter some guy (gal?) with 1500 followers just completely reversed a couple of innocuous tweets I made and for the life of him couldn't go back and re-read to figure out where he went off the rails. (sometimes I'm subtle and cryptic, but this time not so much). Multiply this by a million people who can find some particular statement offensive, and then launch a campaign to get you banned or shut down or fired....
Yeah, there was another tweet about a week ago where I made a joke (on myself - taking what he said he hated, and ironically folding it back) that the recipient took at face value, with an "I don't do that" response - and suddenly I had a handful of people liking his response to me. This was a trivial incident, but I can just imagine someone with more followers would suddenly get a storm of angry dissenters, people who didn't even bother to read and understand what they wrote (or did, but say like with some of the gay comments, there are 20 or 100 shades of whether people find stuff offensive or not).
I remember when "that's so gay" was just a common, not angry expression-du-jour used by lots of people just as "sike" or "rad" or "homey" or what-not gained prominence - used by gays as well, if I recall correck (Flav reference), just like "gaydar" et al. Sure, people unused to gay relationships might go or have gone "ewww" at the thought, just like my thoughts 12 years ago to a gay friend describing douching was "TMI", but it's not that different from reading Diary of a Hitman or whatever as a kid with this guy & some nympho who'd screw & douche & screw & douche... a bit of different context and it's "intriguing" or "exciting", elsewise "disgusting" - we're all Jr High kids still to some extent, which is fine - or should be.
Anyway, like with this professor couple that got fired for another campus, our society provides some tools for mob flashes that aren't very pretty. The idea that a politician would willingly go out and deliver the thoughtful pieces that an RFK or MLK did 50 years ago, expecting people to think about it, to internalize it? Not really going to happen - torches, virtual or real, are way too plentiful these days. 140/280 chars is relatively safe to then deny and disavow - anything longer and you're creating a permanent record for denouncing and sending to the re-education camps. I was uncomfortable with the digging into things Bernie wrote about rape or child sex back in the 70's, even when it was "concern trolling" - he was obviously just playing with ideas, not trying to start a commune based on child abuse and sex slaves, and somewhere we used to believe that thinking out of the box brought good rewards - just now, we have a box around that box just to be sure we don't go *too* far.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 04/27/2018 - 3:12am
You don't have to convince me, for one, probably the only conservative media argument I am very sympathetic to is the one that goes: political correctness sucks. It works like this: in trying to defeat bullies, become bullies.I just don't like bullies. Common sense judging basic human decency works better for me.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/27/2018 - 4:46pm
mho, appropriate venue for coverage of this story, The Hollywood Reporter:
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/29/2018 - 3:11am
Yeah, it's already helping me separate fantasy from fantasy - one of our critical news outlets.
BTW, don't shy away from The Smoking Gun piece - very long, but worth it.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 04/29/2018 - 5:51am
Joy Reid fans are willing to overlook signs of a coverup. Reid confronts Trump and discusses racism. Trump is a liar and a racist. He maintains his 40%. Reid’s fans will stick by her because she is on their team.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joy-reid-hacking-scandal_us_5ae4ab77e4b055fd7fcc3ec2
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/29/2018 - 10:22pm
She's got more troubles from more digging into archives. What that makes me think: in this day and age, we just have to get more used to the idea that public figures truly can change and grow, it's what they do now that matters, not their past. There is a reason that in other eras artists and writers might choose to burn what is often labeled their "juvenalia.":
And yes, there's also that.people sometimes do unscrupulous things to climb to the top of this or that ladder.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 2:38am
That's why I post anon - to keep my Senate race & Wall Street trading career intact. Shit/piss/fuck/cunt/motherfucker/blowjob/h.e. double toothpicks... like that old song, "sending all my Tourette's 2 you...."
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 9:11am