MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comment made about Valerie Jarrett by Roseanne Barr.
Can’t wait for season two of her new show.
Comments
Show is cancelled. Good riddance. Fans might read a book instead of TeeVee for a change, recommend a history on demagogues, fear and dehumanization of entire groups to create racist tribal coherence, State of Deception for instance.
by NCD on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 2:36pm
ABC acted much quicker than I expected.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 2:44pm
Yeah Very fast.
Expect Trump to attack ABC as 'losers' canceling a 'great' show with 'fantastic ratings.'
by NCD on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 2:48pm
There are some very fine people who agree with Barr’s statement.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 2:51pm
Page Six (a Murdoch entity, offshoot of the NYPost) reports that Don Jr. retweeted Roseanne's "racist tweets" about Soros- put in quotes because that's the language they use.
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 7:36pm
as always, in mass market stuff--meaning network TV, especially prime time--it's all about advertiser money,
Why ABC had no choice but to dump Roseanne: The threat of massive advertiser boycotts outweighs any fear of stoking Trump’s fury, experts say. @ Politico
they know the kind of thing which causes mass market advertisers (i.e., marketing to everyone in the country) to get immediately frightened about association and what doesn't
I dare say it was the same thing with Kathy Griffin and the Trump decapitation: over the line behavior for mass market, please go, there's plenty of niche market work places if you want to do something more rad.
Note from the article, the viral nature of the net has made quick response more imperative:
reflected a new reality where social media outrage can quickly mobilize into debilitating boycott campaigns
where outrage can grow faster into a suitable mass if it catches fire
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 7:32pm
Andy Borowitz sees an analogy here: White House in Panic Mode After TV Star with Racist Twitter Feed Loses Job
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 12:35am
Roseanne’s agent ICM dumped her as well.
https://www.politicususa.com/2018/05/29/roseanne-barr-agent-abc.html
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 4:28pm
Most of the articles I've read on this story focus only on the racist tweet and only on the racist part of the tweet. But it's so much more than that. This story is the epitome of the right wing mindset and mode of debate. It's an illustration of the influence of actual fake news.
Barr's tweet storm starts with the lie that Chelsea Clinton is married to George Soros' nephew. This is the story making the rounds in conservative media like Limbaugh and Hannity. Having demonized Soros they want to tar Clinton by attaching her to him. But Chelsea isn't married to anyone even remotely related to George Soros.
Having been called on that lie Barr apologized and tweeted lies about Soros being a Nazi collaborator. These lies have been thoroughly debunked many times but are still being spread on right wing radio and TV. Barr then goes on to her racist tweet calling Jarrett an ape. But it's more than that. She implies Jarrett is a muslim agent of the Muslim Brotherhood. Another lie and so predictable from the right. Jarrett happened to be born in Iran when her American Christian parents happened to be working there. But if the right can find any connection to make the Muslim accusation they'll do it.
This is really a story about the right wing news machine polluting the minds of their listeners with lies. And how resistance to being corrected with truth leads them quickly to insults and racist slurs.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 8:45pm
Barr called Jarrett an ape. That slur stood out.
Edit to add:
The outrage was likely associated with the fact that Muslims, Chelsea, etc are names we are used to being attacked. Who attacks Valerie Jarrett?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 9:48pm
Back in 2013, Barr called Susan Rice an ape.
https://www.salon.com/2018/05/29/roseanne-barr-apologizes-to-valerie-jarrett-for-ape-tweet-she-called-susan-rice-the-same-in-2013/
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 10:01pm
As I very clearly stated in my post, "Barr then goes on to her racist tweet calling Jarrett an ape." If that's all you see you're missing a much larger very important story. Your problem is that is all you ever see.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 10:04pm
Roseanne Barr is a wingnut. She was a wingnut before today’s tweet. When the final episode of her television show aired, I pointed out how condescending she was towards Muslims. Her attempt to demonize Muslims in her tweet is no surprise. The real big question is how did a known bigot like Roseanne get a television show in the first place. She got a show because television audiences will watch bigots who head shows. Donald Trump was a known bigot and Roseanne Barr is a known bigot. I think I got Barr’s memo on Muslims before you did.
I think everybody at dagblog knows that wingnuts are insane. A guy ran into a D.C. pizza parlor because of a wingnut news story about a child porn ring run by Hillary Clinton. Alt-right news talks about the Deep State on a daily basis. A majority of Republicans don’t think that there have been any guilty pleas or jail sentences as a part of the Russia probe. If you needed this tweet to see a bigger picture of wingnut media, you are late to the game.
Roseanne Barr apologized for her racist comment. Disney CEO Iger. ABC TV Group President Sherwood, and ABC TV President Dungey all focused on the racial aspect of the tweet.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 10:26pm
/sigh. My post wasn't about Barr. I used her tweets to discuss a larger systemic problem. You like your stories simple, obvious, single issue. I like to look deeper, more complex, multifaceted. For you it's all and only about race. Race is part of it but it looks like a bigger picture to me. Clearly you can't see the bigger picture I see. So I really don't see any purpose in continuing this dialog.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 10:49pm
What you call complexity, I call activity occurring in front of us. Demonizing Muslims is in our face. Crooked Hillary and her crooked family flows from Trump on a daily basis. Soros is the enemy. None of these things are hidden. The real life action of banning Muslims, for example, face court challenges because Liberals aren’t sleeping. What wingnut actions do you see being ignored?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:05pm
Racism is in our face too yet you constantly want to talk about it. In fact it's the only thing you want to talk about. That's why you bore me.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:12pm
You argue that things are being overlooked. Can you cite examples of things that Liberals are not addressing. I see Liberals fighting on economic issues, trying to save Obamacare, fighting for women’s rights.etc. I think that we are fully aware of how alt-right media operates. What issues are Liberals missing? You said people were not paying attention. Give examples.
BTW, I really don’t give a fuck if I bore you.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:31pm
The core GOP base is and has been totally under control by right wing media, which, seems to be expanding with Sinclair. They are a socially, religiously and race coherent mob. There is no individuality, no critical thinking and no questions asked with a mob. They believe in the Führer and the doctrine no matter the facts. They chant and cheer like a mob at Adoration Rallies.
The President and the powerful right wing media are now attacking Mueller, and delegitimizing his investigation and even the next election. He is losing, as he cannot fight back, and Democrats have little governmental power. This cannot end well.
by NCD on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:23pm
Yes, it's extremely depressing. It's seems to be getting worse. I think it very unlikely democrats will take the senate. I'm not confident we'll take the house. And I'm not even sure Trump will lose in 2020. The young seem less enomored by faux news and right wing talk radio. That's the only hope I see. That they old will die out and the young will make different choices.
None of it is fact based any more. It's an adoration rally with two minutes of hate when Trump points at the cage of journalists or mentions Hillary.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:39pm
History of fascism, and their mobs, Bucharest, November, 1940, could never happen here, of course, but the fanaticism, racism, adoration of lawlessness and religious mixture is notable.
AP Correspondent Robert St. John, from Foreign Correspondent:
by NCD on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 12:14am
I think multiple voices are talking about Trump’s authoritarian behavior. I think that is a part of the Blue Wave.Madeleine Albright has a book, “Fascism:A Warning”. I don’t see hopelessness or clueless opposition. There is a Resistance. Women, for example are running in record numbers. A host of people are speaking out about the madness.
Albright’s book.
https://www.amazon.com/Fascism-Warning-Madeleine-Albright-ebook/dp/B0725VPJ53/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527678860&sr=8-1&keywords=fascism+madeleine+albright
Edit to add:
The Right has a multi-pronged attack.
Babies are being separated from their mothers at the border
Education is being destroyed
Women’s Rights are under attack
Unions are being destroyed
The emoluments clause is being broken
Blacks are assault
The list goes on
Different groups are combating each part of the Rightwing attack. 40% of the country is OK with the things listed above. My focusing on race does not magically stop activists who are opposing the Rightwing assault and trying to motivate the 60%.
Democrats are winning elections despite my focus on race. We need to work on getting out the vote. We need to vote in every Democratic candidate that we can, I see no other way to oppose the wingnuts. What am I missing?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 9:14am
You're doing fine.
Demagogues use cultural, social and racial differences to create blind group coherency in their base. The intent being to sieze and hold power, create distractions with propaganda and lies, target hate at scapegoats, while they loot the country for themselves and their rich donors.
by NCD on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 1:42pm
Wingnuts are not playing 3-D chess. They are targeting the usual minorities. They have their own media. The country at large is too busy to care. When you consider the Civil Rights era, the Women’s Rights movement, and the fight for LGBT rights, it was all a small group that did the heavy lifting. Our current focus has to be getting out the vote. I think there is enough Trump fatigue and fear of Trump to get us over the political hump.
We are on our own. The media still has not adapted to the Trump era. I tried to watch a bit of Don Lemon yesterday. One guest was a woman who continually did what- aboutism on Roseanne Barr. What about Hillary? What about Joy Behar? What about Bill Mahrer? Lemon stopped her at every point. He became exasperated. The question is.why invite her on the show? Media dumbs down discussion. It is is less likely to happen on MSNBC, but many media out.ets entertain wingnut fools. They will not be helpful.
Work to vote in every Democratic candidate possible. End of message. Democrats have been winning.
The wingnuts are targeting minorities. Minorities are not going to be silent waiting for the 3-D chess game that some people want to conduct to address complexity.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 2:12pm
This WaPo piece touches on your point, and rm's, by comparing Trump et al to Barr and her ilk.
by barefooted on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 11:55pm
Roseanne is a racist. Her show was making money, so another network could pick up the show. The question then becomes is could the cast still work with Roseanne? Sara Gilbert criticized Barr’s comments. John Goodman, I haven’t seen quoted. (Goodman may not be active on social media.)
Trump wanted to use Roseanne to humanize Trump supporters for Democrats and Independents. That crashed and burned today. Trump supporters are now seen as scum. To combat Trump and the GOP, we have to get out the vote using white Liberals and Independents and every ethnic minority under the sun. It is unlikely that the true Trump supporter is going to change. Democrats have been winning elections in some very surprising places.
Roseanne is scheduled to appear on a wingnut radio show to clear things up on Friday.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 12:11am
Great point, ocean-kat
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 1:08pm
This story behind the story of the right wing spreading lies continues with Barr's most recent tweet. She posted a picture of Whoppi Goldberg wearing a shirt with a picture of Trump with a gun pointed at his head. She then asks why she was fired when Goldberg wasn't even sanctioned for that offensive shirt. The problem once again is it's another lie. The shirt Goldberg wore didn't have a picture of Trump with a gun to his head. Someone photo shopped that picture onto a picture of Goldberg wearing a totally different shirt that didn't picture or mention Trump at all.
I don't even think Barr realizes she's spreading right wing lies. We're discussing her tweets because she's famous but there are millions like her being fed these lies by the right wing media, eating them uncritically, and then spreading them around the web.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 4:33pm
Rightwing lies are nothing new. Trump said Obama wasn’t born in the United States. Before that it was Bill and Hillary murdering Vince Foster. A guy with a gun carried a rifle into a pizza place because he thought Hillary was involved in kiddie porn. They are gullible. We have to outnumber them at the polls.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 4:39pm
Of course not, but the lies are far more numerous and widely distributed today. The Vince Foster conspiracy theory appeared in far-right publications and radio shows with limited audiences. Even Rush Limbaugh treaded lightly on the subject. Contrast that with the Seth Rich conspiracy, which was heavily promoted by the biggest star on Fox News and circulated to millions on social media. And that fabrication is just one among hundreds of conspiracy theories consumed by a large segment of the public today.
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 5:19pm
Beyond fake pictures, they say fake videos are getting better, ( is that Hillary killing Seth Rich?).
In Future Crimes, the author predicts computer voice simulation requesting you send 'daughter' money asap.
The author noted the arrest of a suspicious photographer taking lots of pictures at a major Australian police/detective academy graduation. He was connected to a criminal organization making a facial recognition database of potential undercover cops.
by NCD on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 5:45pm
Nothing that is happening is surprising. Trump was is the forefront of the Obama Birther nonsense. The story was treated with kid gloves by MSM. Trump lied his behind off during his campaign and was not called out by MSM. The Deep State meme was again treated as possibly credible by MSM. The lies were given credibility by what were supposed to be reliable sources. CNN regularly entertains wingnuts as credible opposition to Democrats. The rot is deeper than just Fox News. Again this is no surprise.
Edit to add:
Barack Obama had to produce his full form birth certificate and no alarms went off?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 9:06pm
Trump establishes a policy of taking immigrant children away from their parents. He then blames the policy on the Democrats. If Trump supporters are that stupid that that racist, the flaw is not media. The flaw is in the hearts of Trump,supporters.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 9:43pm
CNN seems to me to have a strong ant-Trump bias.
by Aaron Carine on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 9:57pm
CNN will allow wingnut nitwits airtime. Here is a link to a segment on Roseanne’s firing. CNN invites a specialist in what-aboutism. Don Lemon then feigns surprise when the wingnut practices her specialty.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/05/30/roseanne-racism-panel-lemon-ctn-sot.cnn
Edit to add:
Steve Cortez is another wingnut who appears repeatedly on CNN to say things that are not true.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-joan-walsh-and-steve-cortes-duke-it-out-i-dont-know-how-you-can-live-with-yourself/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 11:55pm
Honest reporting can sometimes appear as bias. For too many years in an effort to appear balanced the MSM have crafted a both sides do it narrative. If that narrative is false, as I believe it is, it's not balanced nor is it good reporting. Spreading it is just another way of lying to the public. Bias is spinning or twisting the story, or leaving out parts to attack or protect. Is CNN giving a straight forward rendition of the facts? Do the facts tell an anti-Trump story? If so then telling a fact based story that just happens to be anti-Trump isn't an indication of bias.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 10:16pm
Lest we forget, it's really all about Donald J. Trump.
by barefooted on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 2:16pm
There is nothing complex here. This is one racist providing cover for another. Trump is the victim. He dismisses ABC’s firing of another racist.
Edit to add:
You don’t dilute your message when an event occurs. Barr called Valerie Jarrett an ape, You note the racism. You wait for the racist Trump to make a comment which will document his lack of ability to directly condemn the racist comment. Trump again exposes himself as a racist. Point made.
We are not overlooking other issues by focusing on race in the situation with Barr. Babies are being separated from their mothers at the border. You condemn that immoral behavior. John Kelly says that the children will be placed “wherever”.You condemn Kelly and his boss, Trump. You don’t complain about not addressing the Muslim issue. You attack each event as presented to you. You then go to the public and say this is how Trump dealt with a racist comment by Barr. This is how Trump and Kelly Deal th with separating immigrant children. You address the abomination that is the Trump administration bit by bit.
When Trump makes a comment about Mueller, you attack him. You point out the convictions and the evidence against those who worked for Trump.
Trump is a gift that gives on a daily basis. Note the swing to Democrats that have occurred in many Republican strongholds.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 3:17pm
Great point, barefooted. The level of the narcissism has to be one for the history books, never fails to astound. Makes me wonder: will it ever sink in with at least a few of the fans how they are just numbers?
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 3:25pm
Good one! and from a drug company, go figure! We truly live in "interesting times":
Roseanne Barr’s Ambien Defense Is Disputed: ‘Racism Is Not a Known Side Effect’ @ NYTimes.com,
Sanofi's tweet here:
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 3:38pm
yes interesting times, @ Breitbart.com, the headline right now, a team up with Drudge, drug cos. evil:
Matt Drudge: ‘New Low’ for Ambien Maker to Mock Roseanne ‘While They Drug a Generation’
Fits the whole anti-big-international-corp, anti-Wall-Street Bannon themes. I wouldn't be surprised to see this develop into "they're trying to kill off the white working class that once made America great". You could tie it all in with things like liberals like DeBlasio trying to kill the WWC favorite infotainment entities like the NYPost.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/30/2018 - 4:04pm
Trump lies on a daily basis with no consequences. His press secretary is dismissive of the press with no repercussions. The WH Chief of Staff lied about a black Congresswoman. The GOP leadership does nothing. This isn’t complex. It is a brute force direct assault. Fox lies every minute it is on the air. Alex Jones is praised by Trump.
Don Jr. quotes from the same wingnut trash bin as Roseanne Barr. Ivanka gets special consideration for her business in China.
Trump is pardoning D’Souza today.
We are being punched in the face on a daily basis and we are supposed to search for something that is not in front of us?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 10:16am
Name calling going nowhere except tit for tat distractions. Here's Breitbart's headline right now:
Update: White House Demands Response from Time Warner After Samantha Bee Calls Ivanka C**t
Update: She’s Sorry
I thought we all learned how to deal with this back when we would create separate sections on websites titled "Flamefest". And said stuff like: who cares what Hollywood celebrities think? But then that was eons ago, Gen X internet 1.0. Someone needs to drag Emily Post from the grave. Because this is going: nowhere.
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 3:09pm
Forget Emily Post, we need the Martha Stewart mom moderator: and how did that make you feel when he/she called you that?
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 3:13pm
catching more flies with honey:
source
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 3:35pm
Do you see this happening with Donald J. Trump?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 3:41pm
You still don't get it that it's all about him and nobody else and nothing else? He's such a flip flopper that he'd become a Dem if the Dems win the Senate and the House. If Dems win enough of his red red districts he'll become a true blue Dem, he'll make MAGA hats in blue. He'll drop old fans to get new ones in a "New York minute". There's no policy there, none, only the Donald.
By the way, I recall it was very common back at TPM Cafe during Katrina to call Bush and his entire family racist and to post lots of reasons why. There was a whole section to do that. Lots of strum and drang.
Edit to add: I don't really need to get into what Trump would or wouldn't do in the future. My only point here was to say: it's becoming clear that Don't Feed The Troll and They go low, you go high is wise advice. Centrist and left media and entertainment personalities should stop feeding the right troll, stop the name calling shtick, it's what they want: culture wars. Just say no to culture wars, it will drag you down, that's the main purpose, to do a Hatfield and McCoy thing.
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 3:55pm
I know that Trump is a narcissist. His response to the Roseanne dust up is all about him. You put a picture of GW. I suggested replacing it with Trump. I don’t see Michelle taking the picture. If Trump softens, he still will not be trusted by the black community.
Trump has lowered the bar so low that GW’s poor response to Katrina pales in comparison to Trump’s response to Puerto Rico. Bush flew over the flooded city of NOLA. Do you really believe that GW would have abandoned a majority white city? Much more than strum and drama. Obama has been gracious to post WH GW and aided in Bush’s rehab.
Do you really see a meeting of the minds between Trump and Obama? Trump’s goal is to roll back every accomplishment of Obama.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 4:13pm
little historic photo gallery from a quick google, he's always been for sale to the biggest audience he can get. right now he gets your attention with insults, he'll switch to something else if it works for him, as a narcissist would rather have respect if not adulation but if tweeting insults lost him audience, he'd stop:
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 4:17pm
Nice diversion
Would GW let a majority white city suffer like NOLA suffered waiting for action?
Do you see Trump in a picture with Michelle. Would Michelle pose with the current Trump?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 4:27pm
GW’s favorability improves the longer he has been out of office.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/212633/george-bush-barack-obama-popular-retirement.aspx
I think if you ask about how he behaved during and after Katrina, you would get lower approval.
Trump is normalizing racism. That will not be forgiven. Bush is seen as more of a buffoon. Trump is evil. Trump will not get a mulligan.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 6:10pm
Snippets of pictures don’t tell the entire story. There are pictures of multiple scoundrels ext to smiling celebrities. The pictures do not mean that the celebrity was close friends with the scoundrel. The pictures are being used to promote a fake news story. The photo of GW with Michelle is nice. Ask people about Katrina and take pictures of their faces when you mention GW Bush. Bush let poor black people die in Katrina. When the obituary for GW Bush is written, Katrina will be included as a terrible and mishandled event in his Presidency. His picture with Michelle cannot obscure that fact.
Trump has pictures with multiple celebrities. The pictures do not mean that those celebrities support Trump today. Trump said that Obama was not born in the Unites States and forced Obama to show his full form birth certificate. Trump argued about the size of his inauguration crowd. Trump lies about immigrants and Muslims. He supports voter suppression. On multiple levels, Trump is putting policies into place that can only be considered evil. Trump’s acts will not be glossed over by a few pictures.
It is dismissive to show some pictures and gloss over GW Bush’s lack of action in Katrina and to pretend that Trump is not doing harm and will be forgiven if he ever gets around to doing something “good”. Inviting Kim Kardashian to the White House to discuss prison reform is not “good”. This is not a game. Both GW and Trump did harm to innocent people.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:13am
Colon Powell acknowledged the failures during Katrina. He argued that economics was more important that race, but since more black were poor they magically felt more of the impact.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9268656/ns/us_news-katrina_the_long_road_back/t/powell-criticizes-us-response-hurricane/#.WxE_VIpOmf0
Condoleezza Rice immediately saw the race problem.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/condoleezza-rice-katrina-race_n_1028268.html
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:49am
Sam Bee's a smart snide cutting comedian. Calling someone a cunt isn't smart, isn't funny - not before #MeToo and 2016, not after. I use it occasionally when I'm pissed, but she's not paid to be pissed - she's paid to be pissed and clever and funny together - and from a female angle. As you noted, Michelle Wolf's jokes at the press dinner were awkward, bombing - but at least they were mostly funny in written form. I didn't read Bee's transcript, but I'll guess this one was playing to the choir, not her larger fan base and general public.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 9:02pm
I'm sad to say as a Samantha Bee fan that this isn't a tit for tat distraction - it's a real example of words mattering on both sides of the aisle. Is calling someone a feckless cunt better than comparing them to an ape? Are we really at a place where that's a question?
Vile words and horrid behavior are everywhere, and yes, placing them front and center when a well-known person is responsible only adds to the torrent ... but when it's a rainstorm, every drop counts. On both sides of the street. Her apology holds no more water than Roseanne's, and TBS needs to forcefully denounce her words. Cancel her show? I hope not (and doubt it), but if they don't it's a pitch perfect excuse for Roseanne and Trump supporters to cry foul.
by barefooted on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 6:54pm
I am a true believer (and a stint as an online moderator solidified my belief) that going high when they go low scares the hell out of them. Means you got the power, the power to control yourself and your emotions. It makes you the mom who doesn't sit still for but, waaaah, Mom, he started it!
Proof, a woman who felt empowered now retreating into victimhood conspiracy:
Roseanne Barr Retweets Theory Claiming Michelle Obama Got ‘Roseanne’ Canceled
Feeding the trolls is a dangerous game that really doesn't get you anything in the end. Where is Roseanne now? Pitiful that's where she is. And Michelle Obama? She becomes an even stronger more powerful bogeywoman to be feared.
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 7:15pm
I'm not sure how this plays into the Bee thing, since I doubt you're calling her a troll but maybe you're saying she was feeding one??
by barefooted on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 7:24pm
yes, it's playing the game the troll wants you to play, feeding the troll
All she'd have to do as an alternative is ridicule without name calling. Name calling denotes emotional investment, that they've managed to anger you. And it's also expecting an emotional response. No one wins anything except the person who wanted to distract people from thinking and devolve in emotional tit for tat, the troll.
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 7:30pm
Unfortunately in Samantha's case, that's not only her MO but what's made her an easy target in this case - deservedly so. The trolls and the feeders all live under the same bridge.
To your larger point, I absolutely agree. Others feel that letting egregious comments go without an immediate slap in response is a cowardly approach, as though fighting "fire with fire" is the only way to make a point that will force the opponent to back down.* That only rarely works, and even when it does it ultimately detracts from the larger argument.
I deal with the general public on a face-to-face basis every day, and have in different contexts for years. I sometimes think that if the people who feel themselves to be warriors on social media, website blogs, comment sections or MSM had to talk to people once in awhile they might be a bit more ... gentle. I've found that the grit that covers most of us isn't nearly as thick as we think, and an emotional response can actually evolve into a very good thing. When defenses are lowered amazing things happen.
*Omit this sentence when considering political issues - believe it or not, there's a difference.
by barefooted on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 8:01pm
Roseanne Barr now suggests that Michelle Obama influenced ABC Entertainment President Channing Dungey to cancel the Roseanne television show.
https://blackamericaweb.com/2018/05/31/roseanne-barr-claims-michelle-obama-influenced-her-firing/
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/31/2018 - 11:11pm
Yay, Michelle! Not that this wasn't obvious cut bait damage control. Maybe Donald can give a speech about it - his base is loving it.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 5:47am
I posted that upthread 4 hrs. earlier. Read what I said there.
That's why I posted the picture of Michelle with Bush. Because she goes high when they go low, doesn't name call and get into screaming matches, is a uniter not a divider, is open to making friends with someone like George Bush, not into calling him a racist, not into calling everyone and sundry a racist, doesn't see how that helps, she is seen as someone with power.
It's actually a compliment to one's powerful image if a crazed angry person sees you as someone who can effect a conspiracy. Instead of calling Michelle a name, too, Roseanne has to make up a story about her having more power.
Going down on their level and saying you'd never talk to someone you think you abhor in a civil manner gets you nowhere. I just gets you: down on their level. This is the real intent of if they go low, you go high.
Her friendship with George Bush no doubt has opened him up to thinking about black women in a different way.
You asked if she take a photo with the current Trump. She already did, at the inauguration. Civil exchange of power of the White House is part of how we do things to avoid civil wars and coups. She participated in welcoming him to the White House and the presidency, and it wasn't really required that she be there, she could have been in Chicago tweeting that a madman was taking over from Barack, but she didn't do that.
Trump as a narcissist is especially susceptible to this. The main thing he wants is respect. So if he can be treated as an equal to others who get respect, he is there for the photo op--that's the reason for my other photos. He's for sale to anything anyone who will get him the biggest number of fans. His whole game is attacking those who he sees as attacking him, and a lot of that is delusional, but that is still what is going on.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 1:32pm
We went high, they went low. Trump won.
President Obama owas plagued by self doubt after Trump won
https://people.com/politics/obama-trump-election-ben-rhodes-book/
Michelle wondered how white women could have elected Trump
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/09/28/michelle-obama-faces-backlash-after-saying-female-trump-voters-went-against-their-own-voice/23226260/
Michelle equated Trump to an irresponsible parent
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/381946-michelle-obama-my-husband-was-the-good-parent-compared-to-trump
Race relations are worse under Trump
http://www.people-press.org/2017/12/19/most-americans-say-trumps-election-has-led-to-worse-race-relations-in-the-u-s/
Regarding race, things are not going well under Trump.
I talk to Conservatives. In most cases, they do not change when presented with facts. To them, the Deep State exists and Comey was in Hillary’s pocket.
Edit to add:
Name-calling during a face-to- face discussion is your straw man argument.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 3:26pm
Let me add that it is Trump and his supporters who are driving race relations into the commode.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 3:37pm
In other words: "But mom, that's not fair because he started it"
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 7:14pm
More like ad hominem than a straw man argument.
by Aaron Carine on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 7:19pm
Thanks, I know that my posts on race ruffle feathers. If we go back to Katrina, it was clear that race was part of the reason that Bush waited to act. You can say that the issue was economic, but that still means black in the case of New Orleans. When GW showed up to Coretta Scott Kng’s funereal, it was open season on Bush.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/08/nation/na-coretta8
It cannot be denied that GW Bush viewed as racially insensitive. People died. Bush was blamed. To suggest that Bush was an innocent victim of charges of racism does not hold water.
Trump is a racist. He was sued twice for housing discrimination. Trump never apologized for calling for the death penalty for the Central Park Five, who were innocent. Trump led the Birther movement. Trump wants to suppress black votes. Trump pardoned bigots like Arpaio and D’Souza. To suggest that Trump will be forgiven by “switching characters” like we are watching a television show makes no sense.
When the response to the racial discord Trump is showing is dismissal, one cannot help but be disappointed
Pictures of Trump with Rosa Parks does not change facts. Sean Combs buying art from a black artist does not change things. Those things are part and parcel of dismissing the pain experienced by black people on a daily basis. Hate crimes are going up. Police abuse is rampant. White people calling police on black just living their lives occurs because Trump has helped emboldened the action.
Tensions are growing and we are supposed to be pacified by some pictures.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:08pm
As an aside, do you still go to wine tastings? I ask in part because I'm informed when you mention different varieties (I enjoy wine, but am not nearly as knowledgeable as you are), and also because it's nice to "see" other sides of people.
by barefooted on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:27pm
Yes, virtually every week. There are two wine bars we frequent. One holds tastings every other Monday. The other does tastings weekly on Wednesdays. We do another on Fridays about once a month. Next week Monday is open, but there is a wine dinner with Polynesian style food on Thursday. Wednesday may not happen
I got to Level 3 in WSET, one international organization for wine education.
I recently received a bottle of a Zinfandel from Croatia from a Conservative white friend following his trip. A Liberal white friend gave me a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon from Moldova when he came back. May was a good month. When you live right ..........
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:52pm
Technically the Croatian Zinfandel is called Crljenak Kastelanski. It became Zinfandel in the United States.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 8:51pm
I've been told the best grapes for Croatian Crljenak Kastelanski are grown on the southern facing slopes of the Sava river......true.. ? (sarcasm alert!, maybe you could try that on your friend!)
by NCD on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 9:35pm
To be honest, this is only the second Crljenak I will have tried. I know Zinfandel characteristics and regions. Know nothing in detail about the growing regions of Croatia. Level 3 tests on most common grapes and grape regions. Rare birds like Crljenak are more at Master of Wine Level. I’ll taste the Crljenak and read more about Croatia.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 10:17pm
by barefooted on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 10:38pm
I heard that "its (xxx) wine, year x, and.......from..... the south end of the vinyard" joke on an old TV show...... Brit agent stupefies a bad guy, and wine lover, who has (temporarily) captured him.
by NCD on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 11:13pm
I can only imagine that a wine dinner featuring Polynesian style food would be more than delightful - are you planning to attend?
I've no idea what WSET is, but getting to level 3 certainly seems impressive, though it sounds like you stopped (past tense use). Nevertheless, your education level is impressive; and likely not just to a novice like me!
You're very lucky to have friends who gift you such favors ... mentioning their race as white, though, seems unnecessary. No offense intended, rm, but it feels kinda like me saying a black friend gave me something because I'm trying to prove I have black friends. I'm sure you agree that a friend is someone you consider to be that for many reasons ... and someone you wouldn't insult by quantifying it.
Oh, and by the way - why/how did it become Zinfandel in the US?
by barefooted on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 9:25pm
I mentioned race in response to a suggestion that I could conduct a civil conservation out in the real world.
Regarding Zinfandel. One of the best articles on how Crljenak became Zinfandel in the United States and Primitivo is found at Zinfandel Advocates and Producers. It is an organization of Zinfandel growers and consumers who love Zinfandel. They put on a great annual festival in San Francisco.
https://zinfandel.org/learn/history/
Crljenak came to the Unites from Austria. Austria got the grapes from the area we call Croatia. The Austrian empire included Croatia. In the 1820s, a Long Island nursery owner brought vine cutting from Austria to the US. By 1832.Crljenak was sold as Zinfandel by a Boston nursery. A Massachusetts nursery owner brought Zinfandel cuttings to California in the 1840s. California grapes were basically Europe grapes that came vis European immigrants familiar with the grapes from their old countries.
In the 1880s, a pest called phylloxera attacks the roots of grapevines. Crops were destroyed. It was found that American grapevine roots were resistant to phylloxera. The American vines most used were from Texas. The upper portion of the vine that produced the grapes could be grafted onto the Texas rootstock. Zinfandel was a favorite grape for the grafting process because the vines were easy to prune. Other grapes were obviously grated to American rootstock. Most of current Europeans grapes are grown on American rootstocks. Why did Crljenak become Zinfandel? I have no answer.
In 2001, DNA fingerprinting found only nine Crljenak plants on the Croatian Dalmatian coast. There is an effort to promote Crljenak growth in Croatia, and I have a bottle.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 10:07pm
There is an effort to promote Crljenak growth in Croatia, and I have a bottle.
That is simply awesome, rm. As a southerner like myself might say, he "did you proud".
The grafting of grapevine stock onto heartier roots is fascinating. And not limited to grapes, thankfully. Food supplies when threatened at their core need solutions such as those, and grafting is one of the go-to options.
Back to Zinfandel ... why is there a white (rose) variety as well as a red?
by barefooted on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 10:36pm
Most red/black wine grapes have white pulp. Thus the juice when the grapes are crushed is white. To make the wine red, the white juice is left sitting on the dark grape skins the juice darkens the longer it sits on the skins, stems, etc. Crljenak/Primitvo/Zinfandel is made to be a red wine. The juice picks up more complexity from the tannins and other products from the skin, stems, etc.
To make wine,you start with the white juice which is high in sugar. The make alcohol from sugar, you add yeast (Saccharomyces). Glucose + yeast = ethanol + 2 carbon dioxide molecules. Most wine is dry meaning the sugar level in the finished wine is low.
A winery called Sutter Home did make a dry (low sugar) White Zinfandel by removing the skins from the juice quickly. The yeast was allowed to convert the sugar to alcohol. One batch of the dry white Zinfandel got stuck. The yeast failed to convert the desired amount of sugar to alcohol. You were left with a higher sugar white wine. It was bottled to move the wine out of the winery. Sutter Home White Zinfandel became a best seller. The sweet taste helped. (Note if you want to made the White Zinfandel prettier by giving it a pink color, you leave the white juice on the skin for a few hours then remove the skins).
If you want a sparkling (bubbly) White Zinfandel, you keep the carbon dioxide trapped in the system. You usually do this by fermenting in a tank. You make sure the tank has no leaks. The juice is now trapped with the CO2. The tank is pressurized, forcing the gas into the juice, the result is bubbles. Once the CO2 is combined in the liquid, you open the tank and bottle your sparkling White Zinfandel.
http://www.winespectator.com/drvinny/show/id/49820
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 11:17pm
So much information ... and bits and pieces of fabulous ... who knew? Turns out you did, rm, and I appreciate every bit of it. I'l never look at Zinfandel the same way again. Or any other wine, for that matter, and all because of you. See there? Lovely things can happen even in this world - thanks for being a part of it.
by barefooted on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 11:48pm
You are welcome
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/01/2018 - 11:55pm
Thought of you (and a few other folks I know) when I read this ... oh, to be there doing that!
by barefooted on Mon, 06/11/2018 - 1:01pm
Read that. Cried that I wasn’t there.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/11/2018 - 1:20pm
I treat my wines equally, whatever their color or national origin. But as for my liquors, I treat them abominably. Speaking of which, anyone remember "how does a woman hold her likker?" As long as Samantha Bee gets to act up, I figger I will too...
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 8:14am
What Does Candy Is Dandy But Liquor Is Quicker Mean? (These days Ogden Nash might be a target for #MeToo. Certainly simpatico with Bill Cosby...)
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 3:07pm
Not quite - more like "do you know what mothballs smell like?"
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 3:12pm
I have to confess to being an elitist with an anti-white bias, at least in my alcohol consumption. I don't drink the working class alcohol, beer. And don't like the white liquors like vodka. My favorite drink is rum and coke, a combination of two shades of black. I don't doubt that my identity politics alcoholism contributed to Trump's win.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 3:30pm
Worse - cultural & spirit-ual appropriation. And sounds like you might be open to Black Russians - collusion in that case.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/02/2018 - 5:20pm