MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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The Vexing Racial Politics of This Season’s “Bachelorette”
By artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 12:19pm |By Doreen St. Felix @ The Culture Desk @ NewYorker.com, June 27
The first black Bachelorette, Rachel Lindsay, has been cautiously diplomatic when discussing the role her race plays in the show, but her tact hasn’t prevented troublesome reality from intruding.
Like it or not, I think this is how culture change happens in our country
URL:
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-vexing-racial-politics-of-this-seasons-bachelorette
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Comments
I have never watched either of these shows, but upon reviewing the following reported dialog, I can see that I have been missing some moments of rare humanity...
" a giddy twenty-five-year-old contestant, greeted her by announcing, “I’m ready to go black and I’m never going to go back.”
ETA: having now read further, and in general deconstructing the reality show memes that have matured to bring America and the world to the present brink of Death by Clever Editing, I hereby wish the Loud family a happy season in Hell for what they did to us when they let those damn cameras into their home.
by jollyroger on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 12:52pm
Ah thanks for reminding me of the olden daze. Yes, the Louds, lol, that show really was as revolutionary as all the hoity toity intellectual publications were saying at the time....where is Lance now I wonder? I'm sure there's one of those targeted-at-the-boomers for-profit slideshows at the bottom of the websites I visit that answers my question as long as I got a spare 15 mins....
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:12pm
I can see the teaser: "Lance Loud, Pride Berlin, 2017!--You won't believe what he looks like now!"
ETA I was a devoted fan and pretty much watched all 12 episodes,( and even might have been sorry when they ranout..)
I remember, too, at the time, wondering why it was (apparently) so fascinating simply to watch people doing what we all do anyway. I don't think that I realized the magic was the ability to edit out the boring parts, and extract drama by creating heroes and heels--(bring in the WWE).
Next thing you know, a recidivist bankrupt is reinvented as a canny business mentor.
Oy!
by jollyroger on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:42pm
Next thing you know, a recidivist bankrupt is reinvented as a canny business mentor.
PRECISELY! Did you see how he was back at the whole reality show shtick today with the Twitter attack on Mika Brezinski? He just can't let go. It's like it's where he finds his solace and strength, to go back to the whole reality show, beauty pageant, wrestling world. We are right in the middle of it so it's hard to see the whole picture, but there are going to be some really interesting tomes on this presidency for us to read in our old age, hah.
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:51pm
jolly, you also just reminded me of this: how shocked I was to find out a couple years ago that a midtown corporate attorney I was working with, one of those $500 an hour kind who in his spare time is president of synagogue and goes to peace conferences in Israel etc., was a rabid fan of NBC's The Voice. Found his twitter feed and found he was actively trying to help his favorite contestant go viral. You just can't tell who is actually watching these things. The whole "Housewives" audience, I suspect it is huge, or yuge. Our next president could come from there!
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 2:06pm
The one manuever that Trump mastered from his reality show gig (the more so as he was simultaneously a performer and the producer/editor) was the utility of controlling the voiceover ("lil' Marco", etc.)
That running commentary he used to love to do at his rallies is straight outta Burnett's playbook on Survivor and its progeny where people are encouraged to sililoquize about their dislike of and/or weaknesses of their competition. Plus his already facile use of impersonation (James Barron/Miller) which prolly arose initially from penury (he couldn't hire a PR guy at the time) but later on became another of his shameless dodges.
He's not even that good at the reality tv contestant gig (starting with, he really doesn't look the part...sorry in advance for the picture I'm about to post) but as the first one to enter politics, he creamed the primary field by bigfooting them all with name recognition that got him to that center stage spot from the first debate on.
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:50am
yes you should apologize for that photo--ew.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:42am
another thing, Jolly, off-thread: you still living in Kingsbridge? (Sorry I didn't answer you when you commented to me with that news a couple years back, my life was a yuge mess right then.) I am in Kingsbridge, too, inbetween the 238th & 242 stops on the #1, on southern border of Van Cortlandt Park. If you're close, maybe it would be fun to meet sometime? (gah? nah?)
(Comes to mind: mebbe not so off thread, if certain peeps knew what Kingsbridge was like
)
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 2:52pm
p.s. what the heck, fits the cultural topic of the thread here's me and Jolly's NYC 'hood as described by wikipedia,
(Wikipedia hasn't updated with all the conservatively dressed Muslim and Hindu families seeming to dominate lately. Don't want to get into the Russians here [not Russian-Americans] and their yuge diplomatic compound just north of us in the Riverdale hood plopped smack dab in the middle of conservative Jewish territory. They come south from the more elite nabe to ours to shop.That would be for another thread.)
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:15pm
I didn't realize you were up here too. For some reason I visualized you on the other side (I think it was your having once revealed a passing flirtation.with growing tobacco).
I have stumbled upon Winston Churchill's grandmother's house and the place where they used to run the Belmont. My most amusing light bulb as a Brooklyn chauvinist who could never understand why they put the High School of Science up in the Bronx was finding out when it opened in 1936 this was a 50% jewish boro with more Jews than any other.
They have rezoned (or are maybe a council vote away) the Jerome corridor from the stadium to 183, and the ice rink (WTF??) seems to have risen from the dead.
ETA I disagree with the wikipedia ethnic breakdown. To my observation it is *almost entirely Puerto Rican,and the Dominicans (who occupy many storefronts) live further south and also over in Manhattan (which, speaking of what-the-fucks, apparently includes the projects down by Broadway and all the rest of Marble Hill cuz they moved the water!!
Editevenfurthertoadd: on more careful reading, I don't know the Broadway area as well as the Kingsbridge Road section, and for all I know that could be Inwood North which would be Domenican.
*Edit to further add-plus the incoming wave of gentrification which is mostly green
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:24am
Daggers in the hood, unh-huh, unh-huh, daggers in the hood.... you homies get a room.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:03am
I have not seen Netflix Baz Luhrman's "The Get Down" but it sounds from your invocation of the vernacular that you may be aware that on the streets we here reference still walk Cool Herc' and the hiphop crew (as it were...)
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:13am
yes the apt. bldgs on Moshulu Parkway and Grand Central Parkway were where a lot of the Jewish families first "moved on up" when they left the lower east side. Because those are the boulevards with big grassy tree-lined medians, quite a difference from the tenements. There were also the commie Amalgamated Houses near me where all the socialist jew rabble rousing activists tried to start American utopia-might interest you to read up on that. They are still considered "socialist."
There's two ice skating projects, don't know which one you refer to. The unused Kingsbridge Armory "castle" is supposed to be made into a big professional rink including for hockey.
There was an ice skating rink at the Van Cortlandt Park starting in the late 1890's, It was very popular because one could go skating out int the "country", the Bronx, by 1904 on the subway, it's in old photos and even paintings, there's a photo in the middle of this page of this page from 1906, I paste a reduced version
that's why they are always trying to have one there again, I think they had it a couple years ago but then passed last year? If you go look at the large version of the photo, you can see there were once grand houses on the hills up by the aqueduct, not apartment buildings. (I am down in the valley, right across from the drive to Van Cortlandt Park's golf course, which is also historic as it is the oldest public golf course in the country, established 1895)
BTW the #1 (once the IRT) is the oldest subway line, 1904, to go up along the Hudson, of course, for the cool, and for that reason it doesn't have as nice cars and upgrades as the rest of the system, the tracks are wider than most of the system, hard for them to find anyone to make the cars to fit those wide tracks..
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:28am
I haven't been that far North too much, although I have absorbed enough to get the Grand Concourse conceptualization, and I actually remember when Co-Op City replaced Rye Playland (I think it was) but I never got the Garment Workers connection at the time.
Plus the Amalgamated houses are the very first co ops in the country, and after thinking of, say, the Dakota as a co-op it's funny to see the old use of the term, less as a noun and more as a verb.
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:37am
Been here since 2000, and wikipedia demographics sounds pretty accurate to me, except for, as I said, the newer Muslim and Hindu contingent. Lots of Dominicans around me and along Broadway, hence all the Little League shit (remember SNL's basebull been berry berry good to me? They are definitely the majority demographic. Never met a single Puerto Rican up this far, they all keep their rent stabilized apts. in Washington Heights. Lots of Afro-Americans in the apartment buildings around Broadway. Next door Dominican family on one side, 80-yr. old Irish couple on the other.Dominicans across the street. A few doors down rasta looking guy with real long dreads and a Madonna bird bath but no accent, very American sounding, and Pakistani doctor who brings his mother over from Lahore every few months, who drives me nuts when I am gardening and want some peace and quiet, chattering to me in Urdu, not a word of English except hello....Mexicans and Arabs in rentals inbetween, I suspect not legal.
Speaking of upper Manhattan, do you know that the King's Bridge of 1693 at the Sputen Duyvil taking people from the devilish Manhattan island to da Broncks on the mainland, is why we are Kingsbridge?
And that General Washington not only slept at Van Cortlandt mansion, but planned part of the Revolutionary war there? Bunch of Stockbridge Indians died fighting for our Independence there. Yes, the Bronx does go a bit further back than when the Jews moved on up....
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:59am
I actually didn't know any of that til I stumbled on The Bowery Boys, who are these two guys making (by naw) a tidy living off NY history, and they did a three part on the Bronx which is fascinating. Among other things I found out that the subject (in its earliest but not current iteration) of the PhD dissertation which will guarantee me a Guiness spot for longest duration between passing orals and dissertation defense, viz, Gouverneur Morris (of Morissania etc.) is buried just down the way in St Mary's park--I may drop by for old time's sake...)
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:12am
Just working my way up the comments! I'd love to. We are roughly a mile apart, I live on University just south of Kingsbridge--I shop at the Aldi and the Stop and Shop.
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:38am
You know you can send messages direct? (I assume this works, but I must confess I never got a response)
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:21am
yeah, I'm a slow learner but I just figured it out
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:25am
okay got it, you can edit that number out now if you like. I used to see the messaging link here but I don't see it anymore.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:36am
I found it by clicking your name, but I dunno (nor does PP) what happens after that or where you collect th message--maybe your registered email?
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:40am
I found it by clicking your name, but I dunno (nor does PP) what happens after that or where you collect th message--maybe your registered email?
by jollyroger on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 1:40am
Should be your Dagblog-registered email - try it and see.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:35am
Yes, it does work, everyone. I found it in my dagblog registered email which I haven't looked at in ages. When I hit reply (I sent a short one), it goes straight to an email for jolly, not to dagblog, which I imagine is his registered email here.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 2:40am
So this is that function all the cool kids at dag have been talking about. Had to update my registered email. May be worth reminding other oldtimers around here to do the same.
by Obey on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 4:18am
I'm afraid I may have opened us up to such social copulation and intermingling that we may never recover...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 6:17am
you may be joking, but looking back on my stint as a moderator on a "bulletin board" with private messaging, that was a big reason for it's downfall! People plot, all kinds of conspiracy theories, who's ganging up on who, the whole panoply of role play writ large, constant drama. These kind of sites do work best when you keep it all "public".
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 4:59pm
I never joke.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 5:17pm
P.S. I've never watched the show either, but I am sure as shooting that I am going to hear about it ad nauseum. And that's the point, which you were also making, maybe unwittingly: the reality shows are still the broadcast stuff where a major part of our culture shares, all watching the same thing. Strange but true, used to be everyone sat down and watched like, oh, Twin Peaks and it was discussed at " the water cooler" the next day. Some of these shows are still a societal binder, if you go to like, a family event (wedding, fourth of july picnic) if you say "I don't know who you are talking about, I don't watch that stuff" it's you that's the outsider, not the other way around. That kind of elitism just doesn't play unless you purposely want to be alone....
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:34pm
AA. Social change happened with protests of lynching and Jim Crow. Social change happened with the forced integration of the military, education, sports, and business. This is stage television. The people are not in a real life situation. In the real world, racists are deplorables, not wise-cracking rascals. You deceive yourself if you think you are learning about black people with this crap.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 12:52pm
Totally apples and oranges. you're talking about changing society and its laws, I'm talking about the culture. And you're talking the 20th century and I'm talking the 21st.
Don't bother trying to convince me, on this I will not be changing my mind. I am a strong believer the show Queer Eye for the Straight Guy did more for the cause of gay marriage than all the Act Up Protests combined, though I have a lot of admiration for the latter. I am 100% convinced of that. The radical change happened so quickly because of it, they'd still be fighting in the streets without it. Back in like 2006 at TPMCafe, it was: oh woe is us, this country will never accept gay marriage.
This is why the fights for who gets what acting roles and who the producers and funders of the pop culture is probably more important than anyone can imagine. Smart conservatives know this is important in conserving old ways and paradigms, it's why they hate "Hollywood' so.
Cultural change happens through culture, it's just that simple.
I'll go further: as long as there is something known Afro-American culture totally separate and apart from American culture, that means: segregation. That white boys like hip hop: a very good thing.
And further: we are in a completely new revolutionary world on this because of the internet. Right now it's going towards bottom up rather than top down from the powers that be (i.e., "Hollywood") as in the past. But it's not a given that it will continue in that direction once data mining really gets hot and heavy.
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:26pm
Have you discussed the show with any black people?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:34pm
ok, please just quit it, as I told you before, I have "black people" in my own family, i have an interracial family. No more on that from me. I have nothing against you trying to make your points to the audience at large here, but.please don't target me directly with your arguments, I am not going to respond, we just are too different on this and it's a waste of time to go over and over it. You are anonymous person on the internet who often claims to speak for "the Afro American community", whatever that is. I learn more from the sisters-in-law who happen to have black skin I know personally.
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:46pm
Having black family members is not the same as being black. I have white family members and do inquire about their opinions. It doesn't seem to be an outrageous question to me.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:44pm
Stop, now.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:55pm
Ok, I'll change course.
I find what ABC is doing morally repugnant, not a cultural plus.
http://www.gq.com/story/bachelorette-recap-racism-ratings
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 2:22pm
We are so much on the same page on this. Most people aren't reading the stuff we read but tens of millions are watching tv shows and movies with sympathetic gay characters. I have almost zero interest in pop culture but because of its influence I try to spend some time keeping up with what's out there. Not just the liberal influences but the conservative influences as well with shows like 24. Act Up and other protest movements may have opened up a little space for these characters to come out but the one minute video of Ellen coming out shifted the thinking of millions of people.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 2:25pm
The Ellen coming out episode was in 1997
http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/04/20th-anniversary-of-ellen-degene...
The trend towards acceptance of Gay marriage has been much more recent.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/169640/sex-marriage-support-reaches-new-high....
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 2:38pm
Apparently you can't even read or understand the chart you linked. According to your link from 97 to 99 the change in acceptance of gay marriage increased 6 points. That's one of the largest changes over two year periods. The change from 12 to 14 was 5 points. 2012 was a downward blip in the general trend toward acceptance of gay marriage. Looking at a 3 year period the change from 11 to 14 was only 2 points.
I don't get what your point is in this comment or how it relates to my post but whatever it is your link doesn't support it. Or are you claiming an upward trend doesn't count until it passes the 50% mark?
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:26pm
The 50% barrier crossing is the most important. That crossing was close to the time Massachusetts was providing medical care for same sex couples and working to become the first state to allow same sex marriage. Multiple states followed suit.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:35pm
I suppose it's a matter of opinion. You see the rise of 5 points from 50 to 55% as the most important while I see the 5 times greater rise of 23 points from 27 to 50% as more significant. About 5 times more significant.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 4:25pm
Means nothing until you get the majority.
Edit to add:
You double your percentage when you go from 1% to 2%, still means crap.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 4:45pm
Search Youtube for "First Follower" - sometimes the leap from 1 idiot to 2 is the most important of all - of course YMMV.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 4:30pm
That's factually incorrect. Public policy is often changed in the face of public disapproval. Obamacare is the most recent and obvious example. When the ACA was passed and for years polling showed a majority opposed it.
I find the path to 50% the most significant not just in quantity but also in quality. When more than 70% of the people opposed gay marriage it was much more difficult to get people to stand with the small minority. That's when the major battles are fought. When parity is close and rising there's the band wagon effect.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 6:28pm
Actually the high number of "don't knows" made the true opponents the minority at many points.
http://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-v...'t%2520Know&aRange=twoYear
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 6:53pm
That's crazy. The only way your claim could be true is if you add all the don't know's to the approve column. I could make an equally crazy argument that if you added all the don't know's to the disapprove column the disapproval rating which averages around 10 points would be over 20 points. Why are you trying to spin this bullshit? Everyone here knows enough about statistical analysis to know that you can't just add the don't know's to either the disapprove or the approve column.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 7:21pm
Actually there's a fairly long tradition of trying to claim "Everyone but X" as on your side. Doesn't make it true, but all too common.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 7:30pm
Ignorant people say a lot of things that those who study even a little know to be false. I'm hoping that when I said everyone here can tell the difference I wasn't too far off the mark.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 7:47pm
Well, not just ignorant - gung-ho, mendacious, hyper-partisan, etc. I of course have perfect insight, so never get trapped by these all too human foibles - can't vouch for the rest of the Dagcrowd.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 7:54pm
Look at the Kaiser chart and the fall off of don't knows over time. The numbers rise among the approve group.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 10:44pm
OceanKat, I would appreciate if you would stop with the personal insults tossed in. If you want to discuss, discuss. If not, don't. Complaints are fine, personal stuff not - I.e. just ditch the first sentence.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:40pm
And I appreciate your efforts, PP, to keep from closing the thread down. As you probably have gauged, I love this general topic about pop culture and its effect on not just culture but politics, so I enjoy input on it. If you see me doing anything that is fanning flameouts, don't hesitate to let me know. No reply expected, just wanted to say I appreciate the time you volunteer as moderator and will therefore always respect your judgment.
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:53pm
Oh yeah, I agree with you totally that Ellen was a big game changer. She is special, though, has just got this magic personality that can cross big cultural divides without being confrontational.
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:00pm
She said "this is how change happens", not that she as a rather intelligent woman will learn anything but how slowly and bizarrely America adjusts to the simple basics of the future.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 1:25pm
Au contraire what your comment makes me think of is how much quicker one can change a pop culture than in like, Charles Dickens' day
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 3:41pm
Okay, "quickly and bizarrely" perhaps. People think you educate the masses through some logical journey. I'm in the middle of Kahneman, where he notes that even well-educated judges consistently sentence more strictly in the hungry hours before lunch and easier when satiated. A majority of college students are fooled by basic logical exclusions or syllogisms (I.e. a simple problem 2 Venn circles can explain). We assuredly turn to our fast brain to quicklty jump to wrong conclusions and then defend these with our slow brain unless unusually self-reflective. Smarter people are even better at justifying lies and biased and clique and irrational behavior than dumb people. There's no way to just educate ourselves out of this trap. So movements have to rely on something else, enthusiasm and misdirection and two minutes of hate and feelings of exclusive superiority and some appeals to vain feelings of our better nature and guilt and lack of time/urgency and pity and....
Substitution's an interesting phenomenon - we switch an easy idea for a tougher one. I noticed this yesterday walking to my flat - the doors look similar, but mine's to the left of the trash cans and first car. But yesterday no trash cans were there and the first car was parked further to the left, so I automatically started walking to the 2nd door and discovered I'd created this tiny minutely simplifying rule that usually sved me from thinking or raising my hrad but this time failed me. How many other substitutions of unreality/dumbed down reality do I and others maneuver their lives with?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 4:16pm
Here is the nonsense coming across as cultural education according the New Yorker article.
A Daily Beast quoted in the article noted the show seems intent on “using the black male contestants as fodder for their race experiment.”
Black men are supposed to "educate" the white racist. It is not the job of black people to educate racists. It is not the job of black people to inform white people that using the word nigger is inappropriate. The racist has to pick up a book and educate himself. Black people have other things to do.
If this is what ABC is providing to the country as culture, we are toast. This is a crass commercial endeavor.
Edit to add:
ABC is normalizing racism as just "good old boy" stuff.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 4:44pm
One doesn't need to agree with the direction of some of the culture to acknowledge the influence. I don't agree with Bauer's quick and successful use of torture on the tv show 24. But I do think the show has shifted people's thinking that the erroneous notion that torture is effective is true. That has increased public support of torture.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 5:24pm
Fear is probably the more important factor. If there have been terrorist attacks, even in Europe, and you fear an attack on US soil, you will likely go for torture. Republicans are bigger fraidy-kats compared to Democrats.
http://time.com/4276546/terror-suspects-torture-poll/
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 5:41pm
Disagree. Not fear, racism. They are fine with torturing and incarcerating innocent people as long as they aren't white, if it means a slightly diminished risk of white people suffering crime or terrorism. That isn't fear. That is the very essence of "white lives matter (more)".
I don't think many Republicans are in favor of torturing members of white supremacist terror cells for instance. By the same token, nor would they be okay with cops shooting innocent white people who announce they have a licensed gun in their car or a neighborhood watch member shooting a white kid for wearing a hoodie.
which brings us back to the subject at hand...
by Obey on Thu, 06/29/2017 - 6:15pm
True racism plays a major role. It is interesting that the new black hero version of 24 didn't get renewed.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 10:05am
The culture may be safe. More people are watching talent shows, dance shows, and NCIS reruns than are viewing the racist guy on the Bachelorette.
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/tuesday-tv-ratings-izombie-downward-do...
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 9:12am
12 million watching overly scripted "talent" fodder doesn't quite strike me as safe, but I guess as you note it could be worse.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/30/2017 - 9:40am