MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
White Democrats Are Rejecting the Republican Meme of Identity Politics..
By rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 9:19am |Perry Bacon of 538 reports on recent polling that suggests that white and Hispanic Democrats are aligning more with blacks in perceiving that blacks face significant racism in the United States. White male Democrats are aligning more with women in believing that sexism is an important obstacle for women in the United States. Hopefully these trends will continue and we can be a more united Democratic party.
URL:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/white-democrats-have-gotten-way-more-liberal-on-identity-issues/?src=obbottom=ar_5
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Comments
I think this paragraph is especially interesting
in that Obama had to woo a Democratic electorate that had that makeup in 2008 and yet he still won!
by artappraiser on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 10:39am
Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama got a minority of white votes. Each received 39% and 43% of the overall white vote. They wooed the same Democrats.
The fact that white and Latino Democrats May be more understanding of racism in the United States May lead to less inter party friction. Whether that means more white votes will be determined in November.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 10:56am
Clinton was the first black president and Obama was the first white black president. Still don't think we've come close to breaking that racial impasse, though occasionally we make some progress. Occasionally.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 5:52pm
What often happens is that the party asks why blacks want to discuss race all the time. Despite killing Ricky Ray Rector and dumping Lani Gunner, Bill was still the best option for the black community. Blacks voted for Hillary because she was the best option. The reason, I keep asking what white working class needs to hear is because blacks were able to get beyond the nonsense about the crime bill and lost heavily in the housing crash. Despite the setbacks in their financial status, it was clear that the Democrats were the better option. Take Republicans destroying Obamacare, supporting voter suppression, ending oversight of police abuse, and supporting racists as partial rationales.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 8:44pm
I keep asking what white working class needs to hear
Of all the questions that people harp on here this is probably the stupidest question. The democratic message as it is now is enough to get the votes of about 40% of white voters. That message appeals to 3 times as many white people as black people. 40% of 73% of the population is much more than 90% of 12% of the population. Clearly the democratic party already has a message that appeals to tens of millions of white people. It's possible that democrats can tweak that message to increase the % to 45% or higher. That would be a good thing but since I, as a white person, already like the democratic position on most of the issues and since that message is working with about 40% of the white people I wouldn't want a whole sale re-evaluation of the democratic positions on issues.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 11:12pm
I think it is important to ask what the majority of white working class voters aren’t hearing from the Democratic Party. I do not see how the question is “stupid”. Winning more white voters would make victories easier for Democrats. White voters hate Obamacare but don’t want the “new” healthcare they are receiving (ACA) to go away. White gun owners agree with background checks and ending the sales of assault weapons, yet they vote for Republicans who block any attempt at reasonable gun control. How can you not want to address these conflicts of interest? What keeps those voters favoring a party that does not support their issues? Democrats should be having an easier time getting elected. I find nothing “stupid” in asking what is going on.
“What’s the Matter with Kansas?” , “Strangers in Their Own Land”, and “What’s the Matter with White People?” were attempts to address the issue of white voting patterns.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 12:23am
So what you're saying is democrats should reach out to white voters so we can get more of those votes. Good point. I agree, just a couple of percentage points more of white voters would greatly increase democrats chance of winning in many races across the country. Less than a one percentage point change in the white vote for Hillary would have moved Pennsylvania and Michigan would have given her the presidency.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:34am
What you have a problem with is that I maintain that race is an important factor in whites voting for Republicans. Ethnic minorities suffered more economic carnage than whites, but minority groups still see Democrats as the best option. Republicans crated the Southern Strategy, began campaigns In Philadelphia, Mississippi, made voter ID an issue, mastered gerrymandering, and boast about voter suppression. Trump got his start with the Birther movement. He stigmatized Mexicans and promised Mexico would pay for a wall. Republicans can’t touch immigration because any compromise on shipping darker skinned immigrants out would anger their base. There are polls showing that even so-called Obama to Trump voters harbor racial animus. I present the polls, you rant about my being a racist. Race is an important factor in why white people vote for the GOP. Blacks are an important base of the Democratic Party. How can Democrats win white votes when whites see the Democrats as the political home of black people?
Edit to add:
Here is one article arguing that polls show that racial bias was more important than economic anxiety in voting for Trump.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/national-party-news/346653-a-view-from-a-pollster-on-trump-and-race-animus
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 9:42am
Do you think that animus towards white working class voters was an important factor for blacks who voted for Hillary over Bernie? You have repeatedly implied that every white who voted for Trump is an unregenerate racist who can never be reached and shouldn't be allowed in the Democrats' big tent under any circumstances. You're always comparing whites unfavorably to blacks since the latter got how bad Trump was but white voters did not. This suggests to me that when you criticize Bernie for not reaching out to blacks, it's really because it upsets you that he recognizes there are whites struggling in America as well.
Edit to add: By the way RMRD, I agree that for some whites, Trump's racist dog whistles were appealing. I'll bet a small sliver of those whites voted for Barack Obama. Our innate antipathies towards people who are different is the biggest reason that Democrats can't win if they try to be just a little less bad than Republicans on economic justice. They have to be MUCH BETTER so that poor, working, and middle-class Americans of all genders, races, ethnicities, etc., will unite in support of a better life for their parents, themselves, their children and grandchildren.
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 9:53am
Hal, see the link I provided above. My problem with Bernie is that he is ineffectual. I obviously have a problem with him reaching out to whites but not to blacks. Racial bias was a better marker than economic anxiety in predicting who would vote for Trump. I didn’t conduct the polls that document this, I merely link to the polls. I am not a lone voice in pointing out the racial bias in voting patterns. Bernie has no answer for this racial gulf. Bernie comes up in my discussions with you because you bring him up in every situation.
I no longer care about being labeled as too focused on race. Democrats are doing the outreach that Bernie can’t find the time to do. There is GOTV in ethnic minority communities and in white communities. There are court cases fighting voter ID, gerrymandering, and voter suppression. While Bernie does not do outreach, the organizers of the Women’s Marches are doing Power to the Polls in multiple communities to GOTV. Bernie is an afterthought for me. I’m not butt-hurt, I’m pumped the Pew poll I posted shows that Democrats of all stripes are realizing the impact of racism in numbers similar to the black community. Democrats are not standing still on issues of race.
Use the Google, and you will find multiple articles asking how you attract Trump voters to the Democratic Party when the party is viewed as the home of black voters. Bernie has no solution because Bernie rants about identity politics.
My position on Trump voters is shared by many people. No one seems to have an answer, except Bernie and “millionaires and billionaires”.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 10:03am
Linda Sansour, a Muslim woman, was an organizer of the Women’s March. Women of color had to initial force their way into leadership positions in the March. At the end of the day, there were four chairs of the march. A white woman, a black woman, a Latino woman, and Sansour. Each woman had differ responsibilities. They became friends. They discussed race. White women make 78 cents for every dollar paid to a man. Black women make 64 cents to the 78 cents paid to white women. Immigrant women make less than black women. The women realize that they have to have multilevel economic discussions. The economic issues are not one size fits all. Race impacts economics. Bernie Sanders is not up to this discussion. The women are moving forward while Bernie stagnates.
The beautiful story is told in Sansour’s “Together We Rise”
https://www.amazon.com/Together-We-Rise-Behind-Protest/dp/0062843435/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519226382&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Linda+Sansour
ew leadership is emerging and they are not afraid to tackle race.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 10:21am
Again, my solution is for the Democratic party to be better on economic issues for all Americans - not for it to abandon social justice issues. Why do you reject this solution?
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:49am
Hal, I’m rejecting Bernie Sanders as the messenger.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:51am
You have stated that some whites are turned off by Democrats who reach out to African American voters. Were some blacks - you? - turned off by Bernie Sanders since he reached out to white working class voters and African American voters?
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:08pm
I never saw Bernie as a serious candidate.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:28pm
In any event, my underlying question remains on the table, in your opinion, do politicians who reach out to struggling white voters risk alienating African-American ones? If so, how would you suggest they avoid falling into this trap?
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 6:02pm
What you have a problem with is that I maintain that race is an important factor in whites voting for Republicans.
That is a false statement. I have several times stated that those who voted for Trump were either racist and misogynistic or they were willing to tolerate racism and misogyny. I've stated it on my own and when you asked me that question. What conceivable purpose do you think is accomplished by your constant lying? How can you not realize that everyone here knows that this attack is a lie? Doesn't it bother you that you have earned a reputation here as a liar?
How can Democrats win white votes when whites see the Democrats as the political home of black people?
By your own links 43% of white voters voted for Obama. So clearly a very substantial minority of whites will vote for democrats. Either those whites do not see the democrats as the political home of black people or the are ok with it. Your argument is obviously incorrect.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:09pm
So you are not the guy who rants about me calling Trump voters racist?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:30pm
No. You're lying about that too. I have several times in response to your questions stated that I think Trump voters are either racist or willing to tolerate racism. How could you possibly have missed it? Are you not reading the answer to a question you specifically asked me? Are you a feeble minded moron who doesn't understand simple English? Are you a pathological liar? What possible explanation do you have that you didn't see or understand my posts clearly stating I think Trump voters are either racist or willing to tolerate racism?
I am totally fucking sick and tired about the constant lies you use to attack people on this site.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:49pm
Who on this site did I attack?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:21pm
I disagreed with views on voter ID and outreach.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:37pm
Your rants are amusing.
I do hope that your blood pressure is under control.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 5:10pm
What you have a problem with is that I maintain that race is an important factor in whites voting for Republicans.
The fact is that every one here thinks race was an important factor in whites voting for republicans. No one here has a problem with that. I'm confident that every here one knows you lie constantly to create strawmen to avoid serious dialog. It's just that only a few of us are willing to call you out on your lies.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 6:08pm
Is your blood pressure OK now? I disagree with you about not working against the scamof of voter ID. When did I call you a racist?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 6:10pm
My blood pressure is fine. Have you discussed your pathological lying problem with your therapist?
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 7:30pm
When did I call you a racist?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 7:54am
The way I see it. You started off after the election calling all people who voted for Trump racist and that Dems shouldn't go after any of them because they are all racist. But oceankat and I pointed out that team Trump won by manipulating just a very few swing voters in very important rust belt swing districts into voting for him over Hillary and they may not be racist. Then you modified your stance,. sometimes you still seem to argue that all who originally voted for Trump are racist and sometimes you seem to see the difference.
You continue to argue that getting the black vote mobilized is key to winning the presidency. That will definitely work in lots of state and local races, but totally flies in the face of the gerrymandering in this country and in its racial makeup as to the main national race, which oceankat has successfully pointed out here and elsewhere time and again.
Meanwhile, I think that Trump has lost those voters now because of stoking racism because they are not racist. And what he has left in supporters are racist or racist sympathizers.
I think the anti-Trump vote is so way past adequate now to make what you are arguing about a waste of time. In race after race, anti Trump vote is coming out to help Dems win, and a lot of different demographics are helping with that, even Republican non-swings.
That roughly 1/3 of the country may be racist sympathizers is a different issue than winning political races.You can agitate about it if you think that will help, but I don't really see it as much help in having Dems win. I think that the culture and increasing mixed race nature of this country will take care of that problem, along with Americans with those old issues dying and being replaced with millennials with new concerns.
Edit: yes, Hal and Bernie will not pander to black activism. It's not racist, that's a choice to emphasize socialist class battles to unify the underclass of all races to fight for more from the upper classes. They think that that's a winning way to go. You won't be able to convince them different. Why keep arguing about it?
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:02pm
I think that the culture and increasing mixed race nature of this country will take care of that problem, along with Americans with those old issues dying and being replaced with millennials with new concerns.
With the exception of the term "millennials" (replaced with any older version of younger people you remember), the idea that old flaws will be replaced by new, enlightened ideas has yet to be fully proven ... anywhere. About anything. I live in hope that generations to come will work toward - and succeed in - overcoming issues that have plagued their predecessors, yet I can't help but realize that while they may change the projection the changes won't be as much new as simply directional.
by barefooted on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:20pm
A man with black skin won the presidency not once but twice, I never thought that would happen in my lifetime. He did that with a name that sounded like that of a Islamic terrorist in a era of Islamic terrorism.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:28pm
A perfect example of why I live in hope, AA. Yet we have slid backwards as a country ... unless you ignore the current administration. People are fickle; just when you think you can trust a movement in a certain direction it changes course with the slightest provocation. Our challenge is to recognize that the fight (for whatever the cause) continues through the generations if we ever hope to see true change.
by barefooted on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:44pm
I think we run the risk of normalizing Trump and the GOP. I think you have to fight them on every front. I pointed to the Women’s March as showing how people from different backgrounds came together. The opposition is throng and well funded. Take gun control. A majority wants bans on bump stocks and high capacity magazines, but the likelihood of change is in question. There is hope, but the battle will be long..
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:54pm
Trump,approval has ticked up over the past several weeks.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:18pm
So you think that's because those few people, when the approval ticks one way or another, they are changing their mind from day to day on whether they are racist or not? I am outta here, you have decided that race is all as to make yourself blind. Paranoid blind. It make no sense to discuss it with you.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:22pm
The uptick is happening despite the Russia probe, the incompetence in security clearances and porn star eruption
Couple that with a little more cash from the tax cut, and the GOP may be able to put up more of a fight than we think.
Edit to add:
Yeah, race is kinda important to me. The fact that those folks are willing to overlook Trump’s racism is very troubling because it has a direct impact on friends and family. I offer zero apologies.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:47pm
Pardon, but Hal thinks a winning "way to go" is dividing the opposition Democratic Party to what he calls "the benefit of the Republicans."
Bernie is vigorously fighting the class war being waged on the poor and middle class by Trump and the plutocrats who own the GOP.
Hal is either ignoring the battle being waged by Bernie and the Democrats meaning he doesn't give a damn about those (of all colors) adversely affected by GOP policy, and/or he is silently gloating over the damage being done so he can play "if you had listened to me".
by NCD on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 5:53pm
thanks, yes, that's an interesting and no doubt correct clarification, NCD, one I'd love to discuss in a more sophisticated political context, but I am still outta here. (Before I go, I'd like to recommend the original FiveThirtyEight article, subtracting rmrd and Hal spin on it, it's actually very interesting on possible trends.)
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 5:51pm
That's a false clarification. My point has been and remains that as long as Democratic Party primary voters vote for neoliberals, Republicans will win elections. The infighting between populists and neoliberals benefits Republicans as does wins by neoliberals like Bill Clinton and Rahm Emanuel. Only when true economic populists like FDR dominate the Democratic Party does it win big. Barack Obama ran as a populist in 2008 and he and the Democrats won big. He did not govern as one and Democrats lost 1,000 seats across the nation.
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 9:19pm
That's pretty thin proof. There are no other explanations or factors, including the steady rise of the Republican propaganda machine, gerrymandering and vote suppression,...?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 2:07am
Those are all very important factors PP that I decry. Glad you didn't mention the Russians - then I would have had to disagree. Because of these factors, as I have repeatedly said, Democrats can't be just a little less corrupt, they have to be much better than Republicans when it comes to economic justice. They haven't been.
by HSG on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 8:53am
Bayesian thinking - not just the black vote, not the white vote - a number of constituents and outcomes.
The framing that anti-Hillary voters were "racist" is unhelpful to the extent that we don't acknowledge areas like immigration pressure and cultural change, etc.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:12am
I think race played a major role in the Trump vote. I see the identification of Democrats as home of black voters will be a problem for many Trump voters. What can Democrats do to win those voters back without antagonizing black and other minority voters?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:30am
Okay, so race played a role - and are people allowed to express their racial concerns? I likely disagree with many/most of these, but how far does "just shutup" go to resolving developing tensuons?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:47am
It seems to me that people are being very vocal about expressing their views on race. Trump has made it easy to speak out. Historically, they could express their feelings about the inferiority of blacks. They recoil at receiving pushback on that idea.
As LBJ said the Bill Moyers
https://www.snopes.com/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/
The ability of the targets of racism to respond openly is a recent phenomenon. Previously, we had the lynching thing for being uppity.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 12:03pm
LBJ died 45 years ago. If you look at lyncging statistics after 1936 max 8 people were killed a year; after 1946 max 3 people were killed a year.
http://famous-trials.com/legacyftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html
How about we skip forward to 2018 to discuss circumstances now?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:06pm
I took your comment to mean that racists were reluctant to speak out. That doesn’t appear to be the case. It does seem that the internet speeds the negative responses they receive.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:29pm
I mean the LBJ version of the South was gone a half century ago, and the DW Griffith-style lynching about 90 years ago, so maybe we can stop curing the racism of last century and focus on the types of racism and racial misunderstandings and tensions of today, all nostalgia aside.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:57pm
Aren’t we seeing the with voter suppression and police brutality?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 4:46pm
Did antipathy towards the white working class drive some black voters to Hillary over Bernie in the Democratic primaries?
by HSG on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:48am
Hal... Good question...
Why not just go ahead tell us what you answer is instead of throwing that trout out as bait?
Oh and have you got your order in early for Bernie's upcoming book?
02/21/18 | The Hill
Sanders to publish new book a week after midterms
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 4:12am
U mad bro?
by HSG on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 8:54am
Your questioning makes me realize what I think this eternal argument at Dag is about and it's relativity simple, actually
The swing voters of the type that voted for both Obama and Trump don't like racial preferences, they don't feel preference by race is needed any longer, really don't like it, feel that it's unfair to a lot of whites who are suffering or just plain unfair. Furthermore, they resent that they are called racist for believing that.
You can see this already way back in Thomas Frank What's the Matter with Kansas and in Lakoff's lectures on framing. You can see this in the college campus political fights between majority politically correct liberals and the white conservative guys who feel besieged as a minority.
For Bernie, that conveniently synchs with his belief that class should be the unifier, it's not that he's whole hog anti-racial preference, it's that he doesn't feel it's priority to stress it. Black activists can see that, when they see a pol like that, they don't trust it, they still want racial preference vocally stressed as being needed. I.E., they've been screwed by socialist types before, i.e., thinking they'd be included by FDR and they weren't.
If Dems want to win swing votes of this type they've either got to
1) convince those voters with facts and figures that white privilege is still a problem in this country
or
2) stop publicly promoting racial preference as a major part of their platform, which alienates black activists
Number 1 is a real tough one to do because it flies in the face of what they see, they are not hanging in the 'hood, and they are not reading white papers on the still troubled black urban underclass. they are in "Kansas" where blacks never moved in, and they see stuff like what another recent thread here is about, where a black Supreme Court justice was installed not because of the quality of his work but because of the color of his skin., and that was many years ago now. And a black man was president for 8 years, where these voters may have voted for but now they get called racist because they voted for Trump. Their kid can't get a scholarship, but plenty available for poor black kids, their kid gets nothing. Their kid prefers hip hop, he doesn't seem racist to them unless it's a preference for skin color that's not his own. Their tv set is filled with black anchorpersons and talking heads. The NFL is now filled with black players. Movies with black casts are big hits. Some of the richest celebs in the country are black, i.e. Oprah and all kinds of whites are fans. When they go visit the big city, they see lots of colors of skin mingling just fine.When they visit a college campus, they see it even more so. And what they see in "Kansas" is a world dying, empty strip malls and factories as far as the eye can see, opiate crisis Etc. etc. etc.
Seems you can mollify one or the other: the white losers are the ones who need to be pandered to, or the black activists, not both. Because they hate one another, because they think each other racist.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:52pm
p.s. Meanwhile, I happen to think all of this will be over soon. Because millennial voters, who think different--not necessarily in a way that either group would like--are going to take over enough to make those votes unimportant! Those votes that both parties chased for decades will be marginalized soon.
Throw in that gerrymandering might be changed in precisely those regions that where these swing voters have always been.Those who participate in fighting over this small number of voters are going to be left behind. Basically that there's going to be a new kind of swing voter.
You are right to harp on the fact that the Obama political team had captured the beginnings of that, basically the post racial thing, and erred in not passing it over to the Democrats. But in the end, would the Democrats have even known what to do with it? It was just a twinkling of an eye at the time. I think the Russian bot thing has to play out before we can even know, that Obama coalition thing may be history, too. They are stoking any old divisiveness they can find. There may be a counterreaction to that quicker than we know. All that has to happen is that a site or twitter feed that counters everything the bots put out becomes very popular. Problem solved, new problem started....
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:47pm
It is not clear that white millennials will be much different than their parents
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/26/white-millennials-vote-a-lot-more-like-whites-than-like-millennials/?utm_term=.6a0f12baccaf
https://www.theroot.com/stop-portraying-white-millennials-as-less-racist-than-t-1793539084
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:43pm
fewer millennials are 100% white, they don't fit the census categories, and any polls you cite are skewed incorrectly by that. Look at the students of Majory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida and tell me what race they are. Florida is an important swing state. Broward County is a major swing district and has played a major role in presidential elections.
Edit to add: what politico looking to win something in their right mind would go into Douglas high school and try to stoke black vs. white racial animosity? The perp with the Latino adoptive father was attracted to white suprematist groups on the internet for a while precisely because they were a group where he felt he might belong, being unable to fit into Douglas. And: he was not right in the mind!
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:15pm
I agree that this is part of it. But I think anti-mexican or anti-mexican-immigrant "racism" played a larger role. The republicans have successfully scapegoated Mexican immigrants for the decline in manufacturing jobs. Illegal immigration has little to no effect on that decline. Increases in productivity i.e. automation is the largest reason for the decline. More than immigration or trade deals.
While the anti-black and antisemitism of the white supremacist groups might appeal to a small segment of Trump's base it appears to me that that type of racism turns off a significant portion white republican voters.
Immigration is so volatile an issue that I think democrats need to be more open to compromise on the issue. Modifying our position on chain immigration while holding fast to protecting dreamers and against the wall might be a path forward.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:20pm
oh definitely, spot on, but that's also regional, in the west, in California, it's about immigrants now, not blacks. Rust belt swings is often about the black thing, I for one can see that clearly in California, they've moved on to immigration.
Plus maybe where you are it's mostly still about Mexicans, but I see a lot of animosity about Asian immigrants, too, in California. The whole thing about Chinese coming here to have their babies, the whole thing about Asian-Americans taking too many seats in state universities--interesting that there's the flipping the argument against meritocracy and for some kind of racial preference for whites. Just a bitterness about racial preferences overall, can be easily played.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 2:39pm
Good comment AA. University of Pennsylvania Professor Adolph Reed's response to Ta-Nehisi Coates's criticism of Bernie Sanders is well worth considering in this context:
by HSG on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 8:57am
Sanders problem in the black community is not his policies. He looks good on paper. His website is glorious. Sanders problem is that no one believes that he can get anything done. He will crash and burn in 2020 if he is still alive. Black voters are practical. They look for the best option. They went will Bill Clinton. Given the options at the time, they’d go for Bill again. Sanders has supporters like Cornel West and Adolphus Reed. Both men have long lists of criticism of the folks you call neoliberals. Neither Bill or Barack meets the West-Reed standard. Black voters found both men acceptable. Black could sit and have a meal with Bill or Barack. Having a meal with West and Reed would be like dinner with Ralph Nader. Every bite would come with a lecture on the pesticides in in salad, steroids, in your meat, sulfites in your wine, etc. Your feast would be ruined. If you asked what was safe to eat, you would be told that starvation was your only option. West and Reed have high standards but have no practical way of seeing their standards met. Bernie Sanders is starvation. He has accomplished nothing and he will accomplish nothing.
There is a classic article by Adolphus Reed in Harper’s from 2014 called “Nothing Left”
https://harpers.org/archive/2014/03/nothing-left-2/
Read it to see what a horrible failure we are.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/22/2018 - 9:36am
Joy Reid wrote a book on the racial divide within the Democratic Party “Fracture: Barack Obama, the Clintons, and the Racial Divide in 2015. She details the divisions between the black community and the Democratic Presidential candidate sine the 1940s and 1950s, up to the time of Obama. The book points out how black voters often feel taken for granted by the Democratic Party.
https://www.amazon.com/Fracture-Barack-Clintons-Racial-Divide-ebook/dp/B00FJ3A98G/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519162790&sr=1-1&keywords=Fracture
If these newer polls hold up, it may mean that there can be a better dialog about the issues deemed important in the black community. Dialog can help build a more unified party.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 4:48pm
In what ways would you like to see the Democratic party change and what specific changes to its policies would benefit the black community?
by HSG on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 7:22pm
1.Combat the snipe hunt of voter ID that is cover for voter suppression (which is occurring)
2. Combat other forms of voter suppression (being done by Obama, Holder and others)
3. Fight police abuse
4. Create enterprise projects that help poor people in rural and urban areas.
5. Fight to keep Obamacare intact.
6. Fight for a minimum wage
7. Actually come into the black community to ask for votes (Something that is not a focus of Bernie Sanders)
8. Stop yammering about identity politics (Something Bernie Sanders has done)
9. Realize that economics does not trump race (Something Sanders cannot do)
10. Field a fresh field of candidates (Sanders is not fresh)
11. Reject the whiny, Eurocentric focus of the BernieBros like those who spend time getting into twitter fights with Joy Reid
This is discussion 7435 on this topic.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 8:29pm