MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
A month ago Philip Giraldi, a former CIA officer, wrote about CIA analysts who threatened to resign over the Obama administration allegations about the use of chemical weapons in Syria by the Syrian government:
With all evidence considered, the intelligence community found itself with numerous skeptics in the ranks, leading to sharp exchanges with the Director of Central Intelligence John Brennan and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. A number of analysts threatened to resign as a group if their strong dissent was not noted in any report released to the public, forcing both Brennan and Clapper to back down.
Comments
Will read. Thanks.
Hersh and Giraldi are the main course here, but when I clicked on your link, I came to a comment about that "progressive whore" (or something like that), Kevin Drum, writing to support Obama, etc., etc.
But Drum's post begins with, "The UN report on the chemical weapons strike in the Ghouta suburb of Damascus has been released..."
Why MoA or Hersh or Giraldi are to be believed on an empirical question over inspectors on the ground is hard to see. Did the UN have an ax to grind?
In any event, taking away or reducing the chemical stockpiles of a regime everyone (I think) agrees is bad with no bombing and no invasion isn't a bad outcome.
Anyway, I'll take a look. Thanks.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 12/08/2013 - 4:56pm
The master-link connecting the American public to the stories of everyone within the spectrum ranging from truth-tellers to those pandering to idolatery of ideology is the work of journalists and which is often filtered by their editors. I assume it to be a fact that everyone gives more credibility to some sources of information than to others. The absolute 'truth' regarding who released that gas in Syria is still unknowable except for a few and for average Americans it is impossible to know who to believe with anything near an absolute level of confidence. We can only try to make a reasoned judgment and doing that allows the possibility of being mistaken. One thing bearing on that judgment, though, should be the absolutely incontrovertible truth that every U.S. government in our lifetime has blatantly lied to its citizens many times about its choreography of events meant to play out on the world stage, or about its direction of the actions of others from backstage. Or about the real nature of events carried out by others. Obama's administration is no exception.
I believe that even the President of the United States must often wonder who in the concentric circles of his own investigators and advisors to believe as he makes decisions on life and death from within a bubble. I hope he looks at the information provided to him with some skepticism. If not, I suggest he consider Santayana's oft quoted line. Of course it is possible that he gives as little thought mixed with as little feeling for the particular humans who provide the pink mist of our interventions as did the previous administration and as also did a very large percentage of the American electorate.
I agree that it is a good thing but it happened through serendipitous happenstance which interrupted the apparent intentions of our government to begin bombing yet again another country. If that intention was in the process of being justified with lies and/or distortions and/or disregard for conflicting evidence then I support the idea that everyone becomes aware of it. History aint over 'till it's over and that aint yet.
Thanks for approaching the story with an open mind.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/08/2013 - 6:37pm
'Ghouta gas ruse' - Almost as inane as 'Benghazi'. 'Obama Lies!!!!!' Caught him!! Bullcrap.
Hersh: ....I found intense concern, and on occasion anger, over what was repeatedly seen as the deliberate manipulation of intelligence. One high-level intelligence officer, in an email to a colleague, called the administration’s assurances of Assad’s responsibility a ‘ruse’...
If it was a ruse, it worked. Yes, a lot better than the 'Saddam WMD' intelligence ruse that cost us trillions, and tens of thousands of casualties. The entire CIA should have resigned the day Bush sent US troops across the border into Iraq.
Whatever intelligence Obama 'knew', 'cherry picked' or 'ignored' on the Ghouta gas attacks, he didn't send US forces into the Syrian conflict or drop one bomb on Syria. He did get Assad to give up his chemical weapons, which it appears Assad did in fact have in his possession.
Perhaps Hersh is pining over the fact Obama didn't send the troops storming into another pointless conflict. US war atrocities and US bombing of civilians make for much better scandals, and sells more news magazines, then peaceful destruction of chemical weapons by UN experts.
by NCD on Sun, 12/08/2013 - 6:04pm
Before we get all misty eyed over alleged Obama restraint, ought we not consider what would have transpired had Putin not stuck a stick in the spokes of the wheel? Ditto Parliament? And most likely Congress, were they favored with an actual vote?
If, (as, frankly I and Pepe Escobar believe)the particular gas attacks bruited as a cassus belli were black flag ops, does the failure to actually ride them into Damascus like Slim Pickens in Strangelove redound to Barry's credit? Really?
by jollyroger on Mon, 12/09/2013 - 12:08am
You both have good points. Assad did in fact have in his possession such weapons and was lying about it and the Obama administration did not handle the whole situation well at all until pushed to do better by other countries.
And anyone who has read up on it cannot seriously give props to Barry & team for eight-dimensional chess, mho. Trust in their ability to know what is going on over there has been shattered. It's luny-conspiracist style thinking to think otherwise, as bad as conspiracist-style thinking on the other side.
Basically one message for me is we are paying for a spying apparatus greater than the whole world has ever known and we basically got nothing still in many important situations. And I don't even trust Hersh's intel sources anymore, as in reading him over they years, I have seen that they have an agenda, too and are not always right and may sometimes be purposely misleading.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/09/2013 - 11:03am
I think that you are mistaken about Assad lying about his possession of chemical weapons. My understanding is that everyone knew he had them and as sort of a gentleman's agreement let it be a non-issue along with never mentioning Israel's nuclear weapons.
I don't think you will make this mistake but I want it to be clear that this is not an apology or approval of Assad or any other entity having such weapons.
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 12/09/2013 - 11:43am
Why not?
There's no question that the end result was 1000% better than the alternative. In my book, that counts for something.
Maybe, instead of chess as AA notes, a better metaphor would be basketball. Go in with a plan with some knowledge of your opponent, but then remain flexible and fluid as the situation develops. Be opportunistic and not stuck.
We have plenty of examples of leaders who've gone ahead with whatever just because shifting gears would mean losing face. GWB still thinks he was right. And then there was LBJ, the avatar for this way of thinking.
And in this case, we've had plenty of people on the right, especially, but also on the left, who've been eager to heap ridicule on him for the situation. Might have been easier to just lob a few missiles in there, no? Prove you're a real man?
Ah yes, Putin pulled his bacon out of the fire, but equally, Putin was forced to help the West relieve his principal client state of a large stash of weaponry.
When was the last time we got the Russians to do anything like this?
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 1:04pm
Emptywheel comments on the reporting by Hersh. Warning: She does some theorizing about why things may have happened if they happened.
That’s what I’ve always looked to. What underlying intelligence would lead to these actions?
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Our European allies refusing to go to war based on the intelligence they had seen
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US refusal to provide specific intelligence on planned attacks in Syria to the Saudis
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Assad deciding to give up his CW stocks
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Obama giving the Russians a big win in Syria, followed by subsequent progress on an Iran deal
- See more at: http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/12/08/sy-hersh-writing-about-politicized-...http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/12/08/sy-hersh-writing-about-politicized-...
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 12/09/2013 - 2:11pm
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/12/20/nyt-replays-its-iraq-fiasco-in-syria/
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 12:32pm
Didn't the UN come to the same conclusion?
I believe they stopped short of naming Assad directly, but they did think it imperative that he be relieved of his weapons--which is an indictment.
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 12:55pm
Didn't the UN come to what conclusion?
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 1:36pm
That the evidence didn't confirm, but made it likely that the Assad regime authored the attack. Otherwise, why relieve them of their weapons?
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:09pm
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:30pm
No, I understand that and your concern.
I was looking at the issue from a different angle.
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 3:22pm
Right, the evidence did not prove one way or another according to the UN.. That Is not the main point of the article if I am reading it right. It is only one piece of the evidence for Parry's thesis. The point here as charged by Parry is that the NYT as well as other media sources are stressing one story while hiding or grossly underplaying reasons to question that story.
Sorry to post a dead-end comment. I am merely experimenting with the delete button in an attempt to see what can and what cannot be disappeared. This comment replaces the one deleted just above.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 01/23/2014 - 12:17pm
But surely this is even truer about Syria and Russia, for that matter.
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:11pm
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/16/202325/un-team-confirms-sarin-attack.html
McClatchy, when it was Knight-Ridder, was the only media outlet that seriously questioned the intelligence behind the Iraqi invasion.
by Peter Schwartz on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:14pm
As true? Probably at least. Truer? What difference does that make? I think they are probably all out there far enough that no one gets points for being better because they are not as bad.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:38pm
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/12/29/nyt-backs-off-its-syria-sarin-analy...
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 12/30/2013 - 7:55am
A shame if that little mistake started a war... mistakes happen though...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/30/2013 - 5:17pm