MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
There are several things that need to be understood regarding Gates’ career at the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Council, and the Department of Defense.
Comments
As Barack Obama is staggered by a back-stabbing memoir from former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, the President can’t say that some people didn’t warn him about the risk of bringing a political opportunist like Gates into his inner circle on national security.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/01/08/robert-gates-double-crosses-obama/
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 01/09/2014 - 2:54pm
If Obama questioned military generals as Gates' alleges, that was a good thing. Having doubts about Afghanistan is a plus rather than a negative. I don't see "Duty" as a staggering blow. Here is commentary from someone who worked with Gates.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/09/2014 - 3:33pm
It seems that Biden's approach in dealing with situations in the Middle East was correct while Gates' was left wanting.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/09/2014 - 3:57pm
This is a case where I completely agree with the two points you make in your automatic defense of Obama. That is, of course, if Obama was skeptical of the generals as reported and did have doubts about any particular course he might take in Afghanistan. He would have been an idiot not to and I don't think he is an idiot.
We can read the various reports and try to make an educated judgment [guess] of Obama's mindset as he made various decisions but we can know that he decided to keep Gates when he could know, should have known, and therefore probably did know, Gates' history.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 01/09/2014 - 4:03pm
While you see bias in my automatic defense, I see bias in your automatic criticism. Presidents bring members of the opposite party into the cabinet. Given Obama's short time in the Senate prior to his Presidential election, he likely made a calculation to keep Gates at Defense so not to ruffle military feathers. He then made his own decision which created Gates' ire.
The sour grapes expressed by Gates is not the end of the world and can actually be used to bolster Obama. The press has a herd mentality and views everything as " bad" and a new book as earth-shattering. Gates is a privileged White Republican who expects everybody to feast on his very word. In the GW administration,Cheney knew that he was correct and everyone else was at fault. Donald Rumsfeld knew he was correct. Paul O'Neill was the first to write a book on GW's shortcomings. Their respective books reflect their egos Gates tome is not a surprise.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/09/2014 - 5:52pm
From the horse's mouth:
Gates Says His Points About Obama Have Been Mischaracterized
By Mark Memmott, The Two Way @ npr.org, Jan. 10, 2014
Your initial news post by Melvin Goodman was very interesting because he is someone who knows Gates well. Note he very much was respectful of the fact that he hasn't read the book and was just trying to offer his opinion about Gates to those thinking of reading the book.
But in mho, this Consortium News piece by Robert Parry is just speculative crap by someone who didn't read the book, with an inflammatory description of it as "back stabbing," a characterization which isn't shaping up to be very accurate at all.
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/10/2014 - 9:04pm
A few days ago oceankat linked to a piece at Consortiumnews.com by Robert Parry as part of his position and you thought kat was making great points, but we probably agree someone can be right one day about one thing and wrong the next day about something else.
Today you say, "... this Consortium News piece by Robert Parry is just, "... speculative "crap" by someone who didn't read the book, ... ". Does this assertion by you mean that you consider all speculation to be crap just because it is speculation or do you have reason to call what Parry says to be "crap" in this particular case while that of others, at other times, might be fair?
What exactly does Parry say in the body of his blog that is "crap"?
But here is the main reason I disagree with your comment. Parry's "crap" was not even talking about Gates' book except in the title, he was instead talking about the history of Gates service in his various government appointments. He was doing so, as I see it, to give some information by which to weigh Gates' statements in his book against Gates' own history. To do that, Parry need not have read Gates' book. Parry was merely bringing his previous reporting on Gates to the current discussion, a discussion created by statements within the book almost certainly included specifically so as to build controversial interest and help sell the book.
Additionally, Parry was not speculating in the piece you call "crap', he was instead mostly making assertions of fact. Now of course what Parry was asserting as fact may have been wrong, do you claim that to be the case? Is he wrong about Gates in some part? In most part? Totally?
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 01/10/2014 - 10:42pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/10/2014 - 9:39pm
Kudos to Gates for opposing the war in Libya.
by Aaron Carine on Sat, 01/11/2014 - 8:36am
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:19pm
Eikenberry's rep responding above, apparently has something to do with intramural Obama admin fighting (beyond my capabilities in figuring it all out so far,) as there is this in the NYTimes today:
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:28pm
Gates' view of Ambassador Holbrooke is interesting and reminds of our previous discussion about Vali Nasr's book where Holbrooke is said to be all about diplomacy. Gates says Holkbrooke was also about manipulation.
Nasr says: "The truth is that his administration made it extremely difficult for its own foreign-policy experts to be heard. Both Clinton and Holbrooke, two incredibly dedicated and talented people, had to fight to have their voices count on major foreign-policy initiatives."
If Gates is to be believed then Holbrooke and Clinton might have had trouble being heard but were certainly not completely stifled in their attempts to actually act according to their own policies. They apparently were able to implement their policies in an attempt to affect Afghanistan outcomes, policies that included meddling in the democratic election of a foreign leader. Gates says Holbrooke's methods and actions were obvious to Karzai. That meddling may have had a smart intention but it was hardly diplomatic in its method.
http://dagblog.com/link/inside-story-how-white-house-let-diplomacy-fail-...
Gates might just be a bit about manipulation his own self. In the past, about policies and now, about his legacy.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 01/18/2014 - 12:30pm
Beyond the irony, this is also a good example of what little real plotting we actually do as regards being involved in Iran/Israel tensions:
The Funniest Part of Robert Gates' Very Serious New Memoir
by Dave Weigel, Slate, Jan. 10, 2014
where sending an extra aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf can be a sort of afterthought, and is not necessarily part of any grand plan or plot to support Israel in attacking Iran or whatever...
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/11/2014 - 12:56pm
from John Dickerson @ Slate, Jan. 17, 2014
in a short article about how Gates answered his question on what qualities make a good president.
Excerpt from Dickerson's earlier piece (Jan. 9) to which he links in the above excerpt:
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/18/2014 - 5:34am
Lulu, good find. Too bad Gates couldn't do Duty at one of the insanely isolated US compounds on the Pakistan border, see The Outpost, a true tale of an absurd 'counterinsurgency' post that was later abandoned after many sent there wound up dead.
Did Gates mention he was upset about not being on that hot Lebanese babes email list along with Petraeus and the other US General? Who were busier with her and their media image than with caring about the guys who died in a another useless war (see book above)? If Obama 'had little faith in the mission', so does anyone with a few functioning brain cells.
I note the guy at the Counterpunch link has a book, National Insecurity, The Cost of American Militarism, isn't the money why they do it?
by NCD on Sat, 01/18/2014 - 2:18pm
If you've nothing better to do folks...
Something like ... maybe ... watching paint dry . . .
Here's Former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates at CPAN who spoke yesterday about his memoir, Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War. Interviewer is Chris Mondics, Correspondent Philadelphia Inquirer, Washington DC.
It runs 1 hour and 11 minutes.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/DutyMe
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 01/18/2014 - 6:17pm
I felt obligated somehow to watch it through. At the time I didn't think I did have anything else to do but I quickly came to see that almost anything at all would have counted as more worth while. Nobody to blame but myself, I could have quit. But, after watching it all, I at least felt perfectly comfortable with my confirmation bias having been confirmed in spades. Gates is a self-serving, self-congratulating, self-pimping, ------- who knows how to plant a smear disguised as a compliment in everything he says. He never left any doubt about who he considered the smartest man in any room. He looked and sounded like a public-relations Mad Man version of Doctor Strangelove.
I have often wondered how closely these things are co-ordinated and choreographed. If I somehow found myself on that stage with a pie in my hand [a cow pie would be best] and as much as Gates deserved it, I think I would have nailed the interviewer with it.
by Anonymous LULU (not verified) on Sat, 01/18/2014 - 11:21pm
You've pretty much summed it up . . .
The interviewer wasn't chucking softballs... It was more like blowing soap bubbles.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/19/2014 - 12:40pm