MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Michelle Alexander Breaks Down Why Hillary Clinton is Bad for Black America
By HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 2:37pm |"The privileged few have used race as a way of driving a wedge between poor and working people in order to advance their own interests."
URL:
http://shine.forharriet.com/2016/04/michelle-alexander-breaks-down-why.html#axzz44mzZZk1o
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Comments
Hal, you know that there has been discussion about Michelle Alexander's book and Nation article before at dagblog.
Michelle Alexander says that she does not endorse Bernie Sanders because she finds it difficult to support Democrats or Republicans given the plight of blacks and poor people. She does note that a third- party might be necessary. Ashe focuses on the growth of incarceration because of the 1994 crime bill. In the interview, Chris Hayes does not remind her that Bernie Sanders voted for the crime bill. I know that you have Bernie-splained why Bernie's vote is forgiven, but the fact that he voted in the affirmative stands.
Chris Hayes did point out that many blacks like Marion Barry. Hayes noted that Marion Barry said that criminals should be hunted down like dogs. Michelle Alexander forgives Barry but cannot forgive the Clintons. It has been repeatedly noted the black voters, politicians, and clergy supported the crime bill dispute some misgivings. No one supported the mass incarceration.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2016/02/why_many_b...
When you listen to Ms. Alexander's interview, you find that she is talking about the same unhinged revolution that Susan Sarandon supports. Sarandon could be ridiculed because she is a privileged white Hollywood actress. Alexander is professorial but still overlooking the complexity involved in mounting her revolution. She focuses on the Clintons but ignores how blacks felt about the high crime rates of the era.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 3:51pm
At 7:00 Alexander says:
by HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 4:01pm
We have shown you a graph noting when the rapid rate of rise of incarceration in state and local jails began. The slope of the curve increased prior to the rime bill. Those numbers are the mass incarceration numbers Michelle Alexander blames on the Clintons and Bernie Sanders. The slope ( rate of rise in incarcerations in the federal system) pales by comparison. You do not want to have an honest discussion about Ms Alexander's allegation because you are focused on Bernie-splaining away his distortions. He says he will decrease incarcerations to historically low numbers. That is a lie. He only influences federal inmates. If every federal prisoner was released, he still could not keep his promise.
Sanders lies about his impact on incarceration and he is unwilling to support Congressional candidates. He will need Congressional support to accomplish any prisoner release but does not feel it necessary to work to get people elected. Democrats will be elected magically.
It is clear that you are unwilling to incorporate information that brings reality to Sanders proposals. I look at Sanders as a charlatan. I do not take him seriously because he lies.He cannot be my first choice for President. He is not a Democrat. He is a selfish man unwilling to actually help Democrats. Still, I would have to choose his lying, selfish behind before I would choose any Republican.
Here again is a link to the graph showing that states are the major problem
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/overtime.html
Edit to add:
When you were shown the graph before, we pointed out that Michelle Alexander's analysis was incorrect because of the role of the state's. You insult us by clinging to the same flawed argument about incarceration. Yes, Alexander put the argument in her book. Paper does not reject ink, so it remains on the page. Other arguments point out the errors, but you cannot accept the truth.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 4:52pm
Remember - I responded to your refusal to acknowledge Clinton locked up more people than any other President with the actual numbers in federal pens. Finally, you admitted I was right. Are you reversing course?
by HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 4:55pm
This pathetic. Michelle Alexander is focused on state and local incarcerations. You now that. Bernie is the only one who voted for mass incarceration running in the Primary. Yes there were more federal prisoners under Clinton, but note that the slope of the curve rose before Clinton passed the bill. At the end of the day Bernie voted for the bill that increased federal prisoners. Once again, you blast the Clintons but Bernie-splain Sanders' vote. The bill could not have passed without Congress. If The Clintons are guilty, Sanders is guilty unless you apply a double-standard. President Clinton could put his full weight behind the crime bill, but Congress passed the bill. Sanders passed the bill. Sanders could have stood with John Conyers and John Lewis who voted against the crime bill. Lewis and Conyers now both support Hillary for President, Sanders voted for mass incarceration.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 5:53pm
Alexander acknowledges that black politicians like Marion Barry called for more law enforcement in the late 80s and early 90s but that they also asked for help with housing, jobs, etc. Sanders went to the floor of the House to implore Clinton to provide more assistance in these areas. The Clintons' response was to cut welfare and to put more people in federal penitentiaries than any other President in American history. Why do you choose to ignore this history? Is Alexander right? Is it too painful for you even to consider the possibility that this family in whom you believed betrayed you and your people?
by HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 7:40pm
Tired of hearing about Sanders and his bold stand. Black leaders were initially poised to block the bill in the House. Note that the opposition was in spite of money for social programs that would have benefited the black community. So when Bernie talks about the sacrifice he made because the bill included help for women, my response is ..... C'mon Man.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/18/us/blacks-relent-on-crime-bill-but-not...
Black legislators relented and 23 Black Caucus members voted for the final crime bill, while 11 voted against the final version.
I am not afraid to acknowledge that blacks supported the crime bill.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/10/07/the-clintons-aren-t-the-on...
Hal, tell me where in the interview Michelle Alexander mentioned that Bernie Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill. She has not endorsed Sanders, but has made appearances at Sanders rallies. It seems that her purpose is to mention the evils of the Clintons. Does Alexander mention that Sanders voted for the crime bill? Does that fact that she is a shill for the only guy running for President who voted for the 1994 crime bill make her neglect to note his vote?
I am not afraid of the truth, you are.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 9:13pm
RMRD once again nails it.
by NCD on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 4:56pm
Really - although your previous posts don't suggest you deserve it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in believing you didn't see this post from an earlier blog:
----------------
From the Federal Bureau of Prisons:
Between 1980 and 1992 - the federal prison population increased by 55,038. Over the next eight years while Bill Clinton was in office, the total prison population increased 65,447. The great bulk of that growth occurred after the 1994 Omnibus Crime Bill that both Clintons championed. Bill Clinton locked up more people than any other President. Under W, the total population in federal prisons rose 56,543. A shameful record but not as shameful as Clinton's.
We can agree on the increase in federal incarcerations. I thought that, like most, you were including state and local incarcerations as the reason for labeling Bill Clinton as the great incarcerator. I do find it curious that you do not include Sanders as equally responsible for the number of federal incarcerations since he voted for the bill.Do you accept that Bill Clinton regrets that he encouraged passage of the bill?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/bill-clinton-1994-crime-bill/
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/10/2016 - 6:25pm
by HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 5:33pm
Hal Alexander is talking about state and local incarceration, you know that and avoid that. I noted above that federal incarcerations increased under Clinton. Sanders says he will end mass incarceration by magic. He influences the federal prisons. We noted before that he is lying when he says he can stop mass incarceration by federal edict. We discussed this before, you dodge his lie.
Blacks in Vermont have qualms about Sanders. Black in New Hampshire don't feel the Berne.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 6:07pm
Nonsense rmrd. I have previously noted many ways the President can reduce the number of people in state prisons.
by HSG on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 7:41pm
You gave an opinion. You think that Sanders will build a revolution despite not helping create structure. You believe in magic. I'm dealing with reality.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 04/03/2016 - 9:15pm
The reality is that the candidate you prefer has done really harmful things to the African-American community and the candidate you revile supports programs and policies that will make things better for poor, working, and middle-class Americans.
by HSG on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 8:21am
What did Hillary Clinton do that was very harmful to African Americans?
by CVille Dem on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 8:37am
She said "superpredator". Forgot to kiss it to make it better. And the bandaid keeps coming off.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 8:40am
The late Marion Barry said that criminals should hunted down like dogs..
Sanders voted for the crime bill and voted for a bill that kept Sandy Hook relatives from suing gun manufacturers. Sanders harmed the black community and victims of gun violence.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:06am
You have got to start paying attention.
by HSG on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:20am
Do you have Bill and Hillary confused with each other, or do you just have Clinton Derangement Syndrome? (I think it is the latter). My question was, what did Hillary Clinton do that was harmful to African Americans?
I really wish you could answer a question with objectivity instead of insults.
edited to be more specific
by CVille Dem on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 10:07am
Your candidate voted for the crime bill that you say led to mass incarceration. Blacks in Vermont said that he dismissed their concerns. His black neighbors in New Hampshire voted for Hillary. Talk is cheap. Bernie only reached out to the black community when he needed votes. Harry Belafonte never marched with Sanders. The Sanders campaign bludgeoned the black community with a demand for votes because Sanders marched with King. Cornel West said Sanders was the modern MLK. That is simply outrageous!
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/2/29/but-he-marched-with-king-a-...
Harry Belafonte has met with Sanders and endorses him. Belafonte again goes back to the crime bill, but omits the fact the Sanders voted for the bill.
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/sanders-record-on-civil-rights-6222259...
Black voters should be aware that the guy condemning Hillary for mass incarceration voted for the 1994 crime bill. Why doesn't Sanders openly apologize for affirming the bill?
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:03am
rmrd0000 - as you well know Sanders' position on the '94 crime bill was exactly the same as that of the black leaders who supported it in Michelle Alexander's telling. Lock people up if you must, but provide resources to make life livable in inner cities. The Clintons' response was raspberries. Why can't you just admit this?
by HSG on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:22am
If your contention is that Bill Clinton was the reason that social programs were stripped from the bill, you are mistaken
https://thesocietypages.org/files/2013/03/Midnight-Basketball-and-the-19...
Sanders could have stood with Jon Conyers, John Lewis, and Maxine Waters and voted against that bill.Sanders voted for mass incarceration. That was 1994. The CBC PAC supports Hillary Clinton in 2016.
Why don't Belafonte and Alexander tell their black audiences that Sanders voted for mass incarceration?
Edit to add:
If the numbers cited by the link are true, there was $9 billion in the final bill for prevention and rehabilitation
https://votesmart.org/bill/2673/8308/27110/violent-crime-control-and-law...
So it may not have been "raspberries"
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 10:34am
Sorry, I can't post the image I wanted to. But here is just a tiny example of one of many things that benefit African Americans to this day (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton):
by CVille Dem on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:13am
And, as previously noted, she went undercover to investigate segregation in Alabama.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-u...
But, but Bernie "marched with King"
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:55am
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 9:08pm
What you did not learn from the posts was to provide links. We are not going to chase down your supposed sources. People at dagblog disagree with each other, but have enough respect to post news articles or post links to support their position. Please respect us enough to provide the link to Catherine what's- her-name paper or article. Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 04/04/2016 - 11:20pm
You're right peter, it only makes sense that the prisons were built with laundered drug money since Bill and Hillary were running a drug operation while gov of Arkansas and had to launder that money somehow. They were bringing planes loaded with drugs right to the Little Rock airport before shipping it out to all areas of the country.
That's the real reason I'm voting for HIllary. We need a strong president in these dangerous times. Some people see that strong person in Trump. But Hillary makes him look like a wimp. Not only has Hillary successfully run a drug operation out of the Arkansas governor's mansion but the Clinton's have killed many people and HIllary personally killed Vince Foster as reported by famous investigative reporter Rush Limbaugh.
This is the strong president that we need!
by ocean-kat on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 2:03am
It's worse than that.
Google 'Hillary killed Ron Brown.' You know, Bill's Secretary of Commerce. Plane crash Croatia. Along with 34 others on the plane. Ouch. Ruthless no?
It was her first Benghazi.
by NCD on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 2:16am
I think you mean it's better than that. The only thing that worries me is that she's not as strong as she seems. Could be she only killed all those people because her Wall Street backers ordered her to do it.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 2:55am
I'm concerned 34:1 is pretty low for collateral damage. To take out Hussein, we had tens or hundreds of thousands of side casualties. Vince Foster was a clean solo hit. Where's the intimidation in that?
I'm wondering if we can bill Hillary as a combination of a Stepford Wife and one of those robot set pieces in Westworld - it was all old fashioned entertainment until the electronics or software glitches started.
Screw it, "Terminatress" or "Terminatrix". I know Arnie has big shoes to fill, but that Appetite for Destruction gives her a moniker (oops, will find a synonym later) & goal worthy of her biggest detractors. Even Arnie only managed "Predator", while she'll be "SuperPredator".
"Take me down to Suffragette City...."
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 4:55am
"Sign this trade agreement or there goes Tokyo":
by moat on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 8:00am
Ouch, smacked down by the Reaper. I had a friend in college who for a while had a job answering fan mail for Blue Öyster Cult. And then there's the early seditious effect of Patti Smith.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 8:32am
Wow, that job must have been a hell of a window on a particular stretch of time and twisted space.
I prefer Patti Smith's version of what went down. I am not discounting the undertones of a band that named one of its albums after a German fighter plane. But the group did have a wicked sense of humor.
"Career of Evil" is a joke in the sense that any "career" in the lexicon of Smith was a form of service to arbitrary masters.
I don't want hijack the thread. Maybe we could follow this up in a more suitable vehicle.
by moat on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 9:58pm
Sure, pull up your batmobile and we'll take a ride.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 10:00pm
Hillary convinced me when she was able to shut down the Benghazi rescue operation conducted by the
military, CIA, mercenariessomebody. Hillary showed even more strength when she singlehandedly brought down the Honduran government. She has the power we need in a President.by rmrd0000 on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 8:05am
I understand your and other people's need for a strong authority figure to guide and direct your life making you feel secure under a strong father/mother figure, it is a common trait in followers. There isn't much good to be said for Clinton so this reason for supporting her selection is as good as any because her and your enemies may feel the whip of her authoritarian nature once she is in power.
I think Slick Willie was too busy chasing tail when he was governor of Arkansas to get involved in drug dealing but he certainly didn't interfere with what the Company/military was doing at the local military air-base.
Catherine Austin Fitts' insider expose on government/financial corruption is not based on theories but events she experienced while in the first Bush government and the reference to the source of some of the money used to finance the private prison industry coming from the illegal drug industry was just a reflection on the irony of the victims of the war on drugs paying for their cages and that the Clintons are and were closely allied with that prison industry.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 04/05/2016 - 11:11am