The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    It was a tie

    By Flavius on Sun, 10/09/2016 - 10:44pm |

    or maybe 52/48 with Trump at 52.

    I don't expect it to move the needle  but we don't need it to do.

    So far so good. 

     

     

    Comments

    Carville said , essentially, Trump lost because he had to clearly win- and he didn't.

    Seems right to me.


    by Flavius on Sun, 10/09/2016 - 11:19pm

    The fact checkers will point out the lies Trump told tonight up to and including that he never said that there was a Miss Universe sex tape.


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 10/09/2016 - 11:37pm

    Agree.

    But for me, three hours ago Trump was behind  27-0 mid way through the 4th quarter.

     And kicked a field goal.

    Apparently ,in the pre-debate foreplay , team- Trump implied  tonight would feature

    a massive assault on Bill.  And , clearly  anything , including "but you haven't  explained  

    your  lack of solidarity  with  poor dear Miss so and so",would have been infinitely more 

     effective tonight than in late October.

     Didn't happen.

    Game,set, match. 

     

     


    by Flavius on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:18am

    All Right, I hereby render unto Flavius the Dayly Line of the Day Award for this here Dagblog Site, given to all of him from all of me!

    A FIELD GOAL WITH 3 MINUTES TO PLAY.....40-0

    (but with an inflated ball?)

    hahahahah


    by Richard Day on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:48pm

    I can't see how this was a tie. Trump spent much of the debate sputtering incomprehensible Breibart baloney. He lied constantly. He whined. He huffed. He temporized. He bullied. He said things that American presidential hopefuls do not and should not say.

    It's a "tie" only in the sense that Donald Trump didn't check out halfway through the debate.


    by Michael Wolraich on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:24am

    Agree, but at the end of the day the ones who matter are those who vote or stay home. The cheering from the crowd at his juvenile statements show he still has some hope alive in the American public, and polls show many still have his back, but hopefully that number's shrunk sufficiently now.

    Kudos to Clinton for withering a rather disgusting shitstorm as well - stamina indeed. Hopefully others give her credit for that. Yes, if Bernie had won it would have been nasty but not nearly so personal.

    Do wish she had noted that Trump's "Law and Order" comes at the heavy expense of normal black people just walking around, not just criminals, but getting into details with him would probably be a mistake tactically.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:54am

    No matter what happens, Trump's supporters will cheer his outrages. As he himself put it, he could shoot someone without losing their vote. But they aren't a majority, and their vote doesn't decide the election.

    The consensus among the CNN talking heads after the debates was much like Josh's: A tie or even a Trump win "on points," as one put it. But then their snap poll results came in. 57% say Clinton won, 34% Trump.

    Regardless, we'll see a major poll shift for Clinton this week.


    by Michael Wolraich on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 7:25am

    Yep, Im more interested in the snap poll and next week's poll, not the Wolf Blitzer/Andeeson Cooper scale. From what I saw, Trump ran all over the refs in extended off-topic rants, but H had nothing to gain in complaining. Ride it out.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 8:24am

    Wolraich... 28 days to election...

    Sam Wang at PEC locks it in...

    "...cake’s already baked — (Clinton) went to 95% today..."

     

    ~OGD~


    by oldenGoldenDecoy on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 2:57pm

    I have seen something like this Ducky, but I ALWAYS worry about random drifts. hahahah

    I had days when things looked fine and then random drifts caught me unguarded. ha

    VOTE.

    I mean we must all vote!

    And Maher and a number of other folks stress that we must not become complacent.

    Besides, if Clinton wins stupendously, that win shall mean more.

    So the more votes Clinton receives, the better.

    And besides, we need a 50-50 Senate at least to change this Supreme Court. And Timmy Kaine will make up the difference.

    the end.

    hahahah

     


    by Richard Day on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 3:08pm

    Not disputing you but just providing information, Josh called it a draw.

    But then said 'when Trump needed a win''

     


    by Flavius on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:55am

    Trump has the Howard Stern vote, which is still a significant voting bloc. The Deplorables is a tag they enjoy. Hopefully not quite 50%.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 1:25am

    I think Josh is wrong. There is some kind of expectation gap that has led him and others to see a tie (or even a Trump win). By the cool light of morning, I stand by my position. Trump lost the debate badly.


    by Michael Wolraich on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 7:15am

    Pundits on CNN were opening that Trump won the debate. A snap poll done by CNN suggested that Clinton won overwhelmingly. We will see how the true polls pan out. Hillary will still be leading in projected electoral college votes.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-snap-poll-clinton-won-second...

    ​Edit to add:

    Why hasn't Drumpf's gastroenterologist done some about Donald's sniffles and jitteriness?


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 7:59am

    Mike Pence cancelled a fundraiser in NJ. We will see if he keeps planned visit to NC

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/10/mike_pence_cancels_ocean_co...

    Edit to add:

    Melania wore a Gucci "pussy bow" blouse to the debate.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/melania-trump-pussy-bow_us_57fb127de...

    Zhou can't make this stuff up.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 9:08am

    Pence resurfaced and called the "jail" moment the highlight of the debate. Eric Holder points out that ordering an AG to carry out a personal vendetta is illegal. This is why honorable men resigned when Richard Nixon gave them an illegal order. Trump and Pence are not qualified for the offices they seek.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-trump-clinton-jail_us_57f...


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 11:22am

    rmrd, this really gets to the crux of the matter.

    But I cannot help my own prejudices.

    Trump should have been put in prison a long, long time ago.

    hahahah


    by Richard Day on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:50pm

     
    I'm watching Donald Trump morph into a living Breitbart comment thread live on teevee.
     
    Turns out that Trump's "debate prep" consists of dragging a $20 through a trailer park. Reagan must be so proud!

    Trump insists Hillary Clinton wants to deliberately import 1000s of terrorists as a "Trojan Horse".

    (Transcript - Trump - People are coming into our country like we have no idea who they are, where they are from, what their feelings about our country is and she wants 550% more. This is going to be the great Trojan horse of all time.)

    The man who wants to be President brags that he "knows nothing about Russia.  Nothing."

    ( Transcript - Trump: I know nothing about Russia - I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don’t deal there )

    To no one's surprise being a strutting, lying, fascist goon plays well with the GOP base.
     
     Get it through your heads: the GOP base WANTS a banana republic. They always have.
     
    This wasn't a debate. This was pure wingnut hateporn...

    by NCD on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 11:09am

    I was pondering this point also.

    Rush or Hannity or Levin or scores of other sociopaths must be creaming in their jeans. (just locker room talk I assure you and I never ever actually creamed in my jeans, hahahahah)

    But Breitbart, right along with Drudge represent the worst of Skinhead White Supremacist America and there he is, the head of Breitbart running this goddamnable campaign. Who'd a thunk? 


    by Richard Day on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 12:55pm

    "SNIFFFFFFFFFFFFFF" IT WAS A TIE. "SNIFFFFFFFFFFFFF" A TIE I SAY!

    It was only a tie if facts don't matter. Clinton once again won the debate bigly! Sad!


    by tmccarthy0 on Mon, 10/10/2016 - 11:50am

    Just to draw a double line under this discussion. When I wrote it was a "tie" I meant  compared with what they were trying to do : not only to make some more people decide  to vote for them but  do  more of that than the other guy.

    Edit  When defined that way

    I think they did that about the same.

    Edit  I did not mean that they were equally coherent or convincing. Hillary was normal and Trump 

    was a joke

     


    by Flavius on Tue, 10/11/2016 - 8:38am

    Yeah. It is like a game of golf where one of the players is given a huge handicap at the beginning and the other gets to tee off in a sand trap.


    by moat on Tue, 10/11/2016 - 9:36pm

    (A) "I hear you were playing with Freddie when he had his heart attack".

    (B)"Yeah ,on the first green".

    (A)"It must have been awful".

    (B) " I'll say. Seventeen holes. Hit the ball,drag Freddie ,hit the ball

    drag Freddie" !

     


    by Flavius on Tue, 10/11/2016 - 9:48pm