MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
Don’t Fight Their Lies With Lies of Your Own
By A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 8:40am |Masha Gessen: A student asked me the other day whether I approved of exaggerating for a good cause. The topic had apparently been discussed at an environmental forum, and the question was, essentially, “Does saving the climate justify lying?” Wouldn’t it be a good idea to use an impressive, if not necessarily factually correct, message to counteract the mind-numbing cacophony of the Trump administration, which drowns out more reasoned speech?
URL:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/25/opinion/sunday/dont-fight-their-lies-with-lies-of-your-own.html?_r=0
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Comments
This article is gibberish. Liberals are warned not to lie about Trump the way Trump lies about everything. He then states that he will not cite the lies told by Liberals that upset him. Next he mentions murders in Russia that have ties to Putin. Mentioning that Putin is involved in these murders is bad because Putin is also involved in hacking the election. The fear seems to be that we might get the idea that Putin hacked the election in favor of Trump and Putin is tied to murders of political opponents. We might come to the conclusion that Putin is not a good person.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 9:37am
So you think that an appeal to establish or maintain credibility by not lying is gibberish? So you think we should fight lies with lies? Fighting lies with lies is what? A good strategy? A pragmatic strategy? Lies are just politics as usual so Dems should up their game by lying better? Will that get us the government we deserve? Yeah, it probably will, if it hasn't already.
Thirteen comments already below this but almost zero dealing with Gessen's [a woman] point. How big a lie is justified to win and election over another liar or to change a person's acceptance of another lie?
by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 1:55pm
He doesn't tell us who he thinks is lying.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 2:16pm
So maybe there isn't any actual person or any lie that she could have been referring to to make her point. Could be. And if you respond one more time it will make Gessen's sex change complete and it will become an established fact that she is now a he.
by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 2:36pm
Sorry I misidentified her gender
Given that there is no specific charge of a repetitive pattern of lying by Liberals, why is a pledge necessary? It seems that Liberals have been using the honor system successfully. Donald quoted a 911 truther as a source to prove that he was spied on by Obama. Donald previously said that Obama's birth certificate was not valid. The current chairman of the House Intelligence committee is obstructing the investigation of Trump. The committee chairman received information at the White House that he has not shared with committee members. The WH press secret lies from the podium on a daily basis. Given the open assault on the United States by this group of liars, why should we waste time targeting Liberals as a problem?
Should Liberals also take vows not to beat their spouses or significant others? The article is a waste of time.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 3:19pm
It's because of David Brooks and columns like this that it's never worth more than 50% off for a NYT subscription. DG:
by NCD on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 3:37pm
Thanks for the link.
Reactionaries posing as Conservatives are all hat and no cattle.
William F Buckley defined Conservatives as men standing athwart history yelling "Stop". That always seemed like a horrible concept to me. Conservatives often attack modern day Liberals for not being like the classical Liberals of old. Somehow, Reactionaries never got the memo that Liberals are open to new ideas. Liberals are supposed to evolve and update. The Conservative response to green energy is mythical "clean" coal.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 4:11pm
The article was a waste of time.
Politico, often sighted with implied confidence by the best and the brightest here as well as at many other places that it is a worthwhile source of reporting, considers her views worth the time to post a fifty minute audio interview with Gessen. It also posts the transcript for those who prefer it that way. It might well be a waste of time, it is mostly opinion based on Gessen's view and what she considers to be "fact". Don't worry about having to react to anything good being said about Putin if you choose to waste [or invest] some more time.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 1:31pm
I'll listen to the Gessen tape this evening. I suspect she will be worried that focusing on Putin and Russia takes away from focusing on active threats to democracy, Democrats are gearing up to filibuster Gorsuch. Their will be court battles over Trump's attempts to roll back Obama's actions on climate change. There are ongoing efforts to oppose voter suppress. Immigration battles are ongoing. There is no loss of focus on the damage Trump is doing to democracy.
I doubt that Gessen actually cites evidence of Liberal's telling lies about Trump's actions. I think she wants assurance that the attacks on democracy are not going unnoticed. Am I close to her point? I think the charge that Liberals are ready to use lies is unwarranted.
Each piece of Trump's attack on democracy is being challenged even if it is not on the news. The courts will have to be involved and courts can be slow. We should take note that Trump's illegal immigration ban has been blocked in court. People are not asleep at the wheel.
Did I miss something?
Edit to add:
I read the article without really focusing on the name. I have heard Gessen speak before and I think I know some of her concerns.
2nd Edit to add:
The United States is in the hands of. a lunatic. The Republican Party is aiding and abetting the lunatic. The lunatic has 35-40% of the country in his pocket. Those people are not outraged by the lunatic. Progressive activists want answers on Russian but they are still fighting a multi-pronged battle on a host of fronts. The House Intelligence committee is in shambles, The EPA, Department of Energy, Department of Education, etc are led by other lunatics. We fight the battles as they come. There are court battles. People are signing up as candidates to fight the lunatics. We are preparing for 2018. We are not unaware of the assault on democracy. Nowhere in this situation do I see Liberals assembling packets of lies as a means of opposing the lunatics. Asking for Liberals to take an oath not to lie is a bizarre distraction, It says that Liberals should take responsibility for something that they are not doing. The pledge means that we are the same scum as the lunatics. We are not scum. We are not lunatics. We are not liars. Liberals are not the problem.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 3:10pm
The difference we have is that the argument being made is that Liberals are clueless. Liberals are told not to use their own lies to counter wingnut lies. There is no evidence that Liberals are using lies.
Liberals are told to not be diverted by the Russian investigation. Liberals flooded town halls to challenge draconian Republican plans for health care. Liberals are mounting protests on multiple fronts. I don't see that Liberals are blind to threats
.Republicans control D.C. Liberals mount protests. What does Gessen not see happening given the political reality? Why does she think Liberals are distracted?
Edit to add:
The Russia investigation has a prominent role because it seems the most likely way that Trump's assault on demoocracy can be slowed down.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 9:03pm
Hyperbolic exaggeration in political rhetoric is a form of lying. If you were to agree with that then we would probably argue about what was being exaggerated, but don't expect to convince me that Democratic leaders or their constituents are as relatively pure as you suggest. "The pledge means that we are the same scum as the lunatics. We are not scum. We are not lunatics. We are not liars. Liberals are not the problem." I don't see it that way at all. Very few on either, for that matter, any, side are scum. I see the warning that we shouldn't lie to fight lies as a way to remind us not to fall to the destructive tactical level of those you seem to see as below us. Not much to win going that way and probably not a winning tactic either if the intention is to win something worth winning.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 12:44am
Please cite example of lies and that there is not resistance to the treat to democracy represented by Trump. I think that taking the position that lies and denials are grossly exaggerating the situation. Some critics lot at the travesty of the Trump administration turn away and complain about Liberals.
Last night Bill Mahler whined about April Ryan and Maxine Waters crying racism when they came under attack by wingnuts. He allowed wingnut Rick Santorum to boast about how he could withstand jokes without complaining.Mahrer attacked Ryan and Waters for being soft little Liberals. The truth is that Ryan did not run to the media crying racism, she returned to the White House the next day to do her job. When Waters was asked about O'Reilly's attack on her, she simply said that she was a strong black woman who would not be intimidated. Waters then moved on. Mahrer made a baseless attack on the two women.
I think that your position that Liberals need to take a pledge to refrain from telling lies is absurd. Please list the lies being told by these Liberals.
Regarding scum. I include Trump, Bannon, Spicer, Conway. Flynn and others as scum. Do you disagree?
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 10:35am
The problem is that the Warmers have been fixing the data and lying to the public for a long time while the Deniers only have to resist the Warmer lies, arrogance and groupthink. The warming belief has become more cult than scientific disipline with their 97 virgin climate scientists becoming unimpeachable oracles.
The political power of the Warmers and their agenda has been broken and they are being stripped from positions of influence in the government, the only place they could trive with NWO direction. All they have now is their handwringing and hysterical projections of a catastrophe that never comes.
If we had famine in Iowa and food riots in burning Soux City reality might seem to match the Warmers hysterical projections but the Corn Belt is expanding with GW and yeilds continue to increase.
by Peter (not verified) on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 10:10am
Can you translate this to English?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 10:15am
He is quoting from the sources linked to within this Breibart article.
by moat on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 12:21pm
Thanks
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 3:18pm
Moat is our Briebart monitor. Delingpoles page at Amazon.
Another of the grifter class shucking the reprogrammable Rushbots. Selling them cartoonish articles and 'books' about how smart and clever the meatheads are, and never ever believe liberals or even try to understand 'the science'...it is all part of the 168 nation global conspiracy to put one over on the smart readers of Delingpole and Briebart.
Environmentalists are Marxists conspiring to kill the planet. Scott Pruitt is a hero cuz "regulations should be regular".
The data is fake but Delingpole, Trump or Pruitt aren't going to give us new really true fantastic data but no data, they intend to delete it all and stop the research.
We gotta just believe them.
by NCD on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 5:55pm
I am more of a janitor than a monitor.
Whenever the purported Peter says something, I paste it into a search engine and Briebart always pops up on the first page of hits. There are other sites that regularly show up but whatever sources they cite are almost always also on Briebart. It is actually a pretty small world in terms of information exchange. I haven't had to quit my day job.
by moat on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 6:42pm
Compromise - Minotaur. Kind of a gatekeeper.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 6:10am
A half man-half bull, wandering back and forth in a maze while occasionally fighting with mythical Greeks?
You have been talking to my wife.
by moat on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 1:57pm
As long as it's only talk, who's to complain? ;-) But yes, we all have our dragons or windmills with which to contend. Myths? Things I never would have believed come to life every day. The only thing that time brings is proof that my imagination wasn't quite up to the task.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 3:56pm
You really know how to pick your causes. We are the only developed country to deny health coverage to its citizens, and as of the past couple of weeks the only one to spurn scientific knowledge about climate change.
As my Father said to me: when you lay down with dogs you will smell like a dog.
by CVille Dem on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 10:46am
CV, if you lay down with sleazy Warmer politicians and their technocrats you will smell like snake-oil. Try reading the IPCC report on GW and let me know if you can understand it. In among the data i did find some interesting facts, according to them there has been no change in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century but they do project the fear that it's coming any day now fulfilling their oracles prophecy. This was based on measuremments that couldn't be easily 'corrected' to show their desired picture of a drowning world. The air temperature measurements they used were open to intrepretation and correction which they did to bring them in line with their Warmer projections. This is sold as science but is political manipulation to further an agenda even though GW is happening just not fast enough for their aganda.
Most people will never have the ability or training to understand the complicated workings of our climate systems, I struggle to seperate the facts from the fictions, so they must trust someone or some group to lead them. People who need to be led also can be misled and when the Warmer politicians who lead then demand groupthink and an uncritical belief system they are being misled.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 1:44pm
Perhaps you should take a science class or provide a link to allow bloggers to fully assess your claim::
From Anderson Lehman the author of the sea level portion of the report
http://e360.yale.edu/features/yale_e360_forum_on_ipcc_report_2013
He is up front about the process
i don't trust anything you post because you fail to provide links to support your position.
Edit to add:
Rick Perry just banned the Energy Department's Climate Office from using the term "climate change"
http://thedailybanter.com/2017/03/energy-department-climate-office-was-j...
The Reactionaries are insane
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 2:38pm
Language is all important for demagogues to annihilate opposition to their authoritarian ideology.
In 1984 Big Brother's Ministry of Truth banned words deemed to inspire or even allow the expression of dissent.
Nazis banned defeatist talk, and listening to foreign radio broadcasts had a death sentence. They used language as Trump does, extremes, absolutist propaganda. See lingua tertii imperii.
by NCD on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 3:45pm
This authoritarian behavior. The Republicans are providing cover. They are traitors.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 3:49pm
Republicans, and their voters, swear by the Hypocritical Oath. It is part of the cult.
by NCD on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 5:01pm
Sea level IS rising. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pacific-islands-lost-rising-seas-climate-change. Many people have been displaced. As salt water rose and ruined their formerly self-sustaining crops, and life became impossible because dry ground was literally disappearing beneath their feet. They had to give up their close-knit island life and move to apartments in cities they had never even visited before.
by CVille Dem on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 5:30pm
The sea level has been rising for the last 10,000 years and it will continue to rise but the IPCC stated that there was no increase in the 'rate' of sea level rise in the 20th century even with massive increases in CO2 levels.
It's a shame about the islanders having to move but according to the IPCC it had nothing to do with AGW just the rormal rate of sea level rise. There are other areas in the world where people will be displaced or forced to adapt to the rising sea but humans wouldn't have survived if they weren't adaptable. The rate of SLR could increase in the future possibly from increased CO2 but there is no connection proven and anyone demanding belief in unverifiable projections should be viewed with suspicion.
Trump is having a seawall built to protect his golf course in Ireland from the rising sea level. They even played along with the Warmers there by stating that GW was a possible cause. Pretending to be a true believer probably helps when dealing with local decision makers.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 11:55pm
Peter it's a shame you are a climate denier, to any readers, Peter is about as informed and curious about climate and science as his hero the Orange Furor. Everything he posts here is from the right wing echo chamber.
The IPCC:
by NCD on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 1:34am
I don't need to join the Deniers to reject the blind faith of the Warmer true believers. Most if not all of the projections about GW effects made in the last 20 years have been wrong so any future projections from the Warmers are suspect and likely also wrong. This is especially true with their impending catastrophe fear meme designed to create panic among the misinformed rubes and ease implementation of their agenda.
It almost worked but Trump has confronted the Climate Cult with a clear 'I don't believe' in their agenda and he is moving rapidly to separate the cultists from their power in the EPA and elsewhere. Watching the snowflakes and worshippers of the State squirm and wail as their administrative state is dismantled and the NWO rejected is one small pleasure I'll savor.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 1:18pm
I have no idea whether you will consider this to to be evidence proving that Putin is as brilliant and wise as Trump or maybe just as blind and dismissive of evidence as Trump and thus both are fools. Another possibility is that either one or both is just cynically playing to the fools in their audience for their own cynical political reasons. I've heard that politicians sometimes do this.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 1:51pm
Putin seems to be an optimist and an oilman in the one country that may see many benefits from GW. If you believe the CO2 myth or not many people realize it is much too late to do anything to even slow GW and its effects, if that were possible.
So long as the world has access to sufficient oil and gas we'll have the energy to meet the challenges and adapt to changing climate conditions. The Warmers will continue to promote their fears and snake-oil remedies but they'll have to do it from out in left field away from the action.
by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 4:32pm
The article is interesting because he's not a denier of global warming, rather:
1) as true blue nationalist, he likes that it's happening to the cold northern motherland, thinks that results could finally make them king of the world where everybody wants to be
2) he disagrees about the cause
Consider the last paragraphs
These thoughts are quite similar to many harebrained Trump thoughts where the latter sees connections, and then speaks them without thinking it through. Here Putin is conveniently not thinking about the possibility of like, floods from the north pole melting, only the good stuff.
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 10:22pm
I think Putin is totally wrong about his denial of human causes. I would bet that he knows that he is totally wrong. Probably just a chosen political stance. I think it is quite possible, quite likely actually, that he is correct that the planet conditions have passed the tipping point and the best approach is to just get ready what is probably coming. Even if it is technically possible to reverse causes I don't believe it is imaginable that that reversal will be accomplished.
Putin seems to be both smart and knowledgeable. Trump, not so much. If they publicly come down on the same side of some issue I don't think that should be taken as an indication that their conceptual thinking and motivations are therefore similar.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 12:06am
Putin is a lawyer and speaks with political rhetoric but he is on firm ground challenging the belief that CO2 is the primary agent in GW. Terms like tipping point serve the Warmer's need for immediacy of the threat just as their reliance on feedback loops tries to fill the big holes in their CO2 theories.
Trump thrives on fools underestimating him and his team whether it was the republican party elite or the cult followers and quislings of the Red Queen. All of those forces including the media were swept aside by Trump and his 60 million voters with a campaign that cut through the old power structures like a hot knife through butter. Trump turned the petty annoying tweet into the most feared and effective means of political communication imaginable.
Who is the most powerful man on the face of the planet, the Hegemon? it's Donald Trump so I'm sure he appreciats being underestimated and viewed as not too smart by the many losers he's left in his wake.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 11:14am
I thought Trump would ban muslims from coming to the country and he tried and failed, twice. Then I was sure he'd repeal Obamacare. I never believed for a second he would replace it with something better but I did think he'd repeal it. I really thought he'd get at least those things done but he's done nothing. With a republican house and a republican senate he hasn't accomplished anything. So exactly how do you think people are underestimating Trump? I very clearly over estimated him.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 2:14pm
The maniacal language of a Der Stürmer, victory is near, propagandist in early April, 1945?
No, a fanatical Trump supporter in early April, 2017 trying to convince himself The Orange Furor is not just 'winning', but achieving devastating and unprecedented victories.
by NCD on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 4:03pm
Art, you got an early start on the April Fools levity with your North Pole yarn which gave me a good chuckle. For those who don't get the joke the North Pole is in the middle of the Arctic Ocean, that ocean is at sea level whether liquid or frozen. When that ice melts it actually reduces the volume of the Arctic Ocean
If you want to flood some Russians, especially those who magically defeated the Red Queen, you need to melt ice not in the ocean such as that from the Greenland ice sheet.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 04/01/2017 - 10:19am
Peter, blind faith in a leader who tells endless lies and seeks adoration by making fantastic promises in front of chanting mobs is cult behavior.
by NCD on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 4:25pm
It's true that few of us are able to understand the complex data from scientific papers. We have to find those we accept as knowledgeable authorities and the simplified stories we get from them. When 97% of scientists come to the same conclusions with only minor quibbling on details knowledgeable authorities are not hard to find. Those who attempt to deny have to rely on claims of some conspiracy among tens of thousands of scientists and every major scientific institution in the world. Trump goes even deeper into the rabbit hole by claiming it's a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese to destroy our economy.
The clearest analogy to what we see now is the argument some 50 years ago over smoking. 97% of doctors and scientists saw overwhelming evidence that smoking caused and contributed to lung cancer. Most of the 3% that disagreed were employed by cigarette companies, just as now most of the scientists that deny Climate Change work for oil companies. It seems silly now when virtually everyone accepts the reality of the link between smoking and lung cancer but it wasn't then. It was a long hard fight to get the public to accept that fact.
It should be obvious what's happening here when one side is putting out data in peer reviewed journals to be challenged by other scientists and the other side is attempting to suppress that data rather than argue against it. The examples of this attempt to suppress the information are numerous but I'll include just one. I originally had planned on including information on the shrinking and disappearing glaciers in Glacier National Park. There was a government site that contained dozens of photos from the early 1900's with comparison photos taken in the last decade from the same spot at the same time of year. Just as comparison photos from the Trump inaugural crowd and the Obama crowd quickly showed the Trump lie these glacial photos quickly showed the changes from global warming. The images were so powerful that I saved the link in my favorites. I was surprised, or not surprised at all in the Trump era, to discover yesterday the pages taken down.
For more comparison photos, go to http://www.nrmsc.usgs.gov/repeatphoto/
by ocean-kat on Fri, 03/31/2017 - 7:39pm
If the "warmers" have been "fixing the data" why doesn't Trump give us the fantastic real data?
You know, that show that rising CO2 has no warming effect on climate?
It does and he can't.
Which is why he is deleting the data and shutting down research to get more data.
You must be asphyxiating from the swamp fumes mushrooming off the idiot Trump, and his crackpot administration.
You have been conned, and you can't string two sentences together without proving it.
by NCD on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:00am
Your beliefs really don't really matter that much in reality, nor do Trump's actions. You're playing a loser's game at this point. It's not political power that "the warmers" have, it's the power of worldwide capitalism that they have won over. In the end, scientific knowledge is power, you can't ignore it for long:
and
by artappraiser on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:02am
We have to remember that we are dealing with Reactionaries not Conservatives. Reactionaries actually believe that the good old days were better. We see environmental protection as a benefit, reactionaries see protecting the environment as a simple matter of government interference.Facts do not matter to reactionaries. Tradition is more important than science for them.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:20am
And they will always be with us. So chose your fights wisely, especially when the majority has already been won over.
by artappraiser on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:30am
An imaginary false tradition, promoted to seize and exploit political power, as a reaction to a reality and scientific facts.
In a similar vein to the reactionary racist ideology of the last century that burned books, executed intellectuals and committed genocide.
by NCD on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:48am
I have not seen anything that resembles the pattern of lies coming from the Left suggested in the linked article. The author simply said that he did not want to give examples. The lies I see have a rightward lean.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 12:08pm
Agree. It's more both sides baloney.
As our Trumpkin poster here shows, ultimately the unfortunate thing is arguing with facts with many of them has no effect, as their brains are hard wired by 30 years of right wing propaganda.
by NCD on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 1:03pm
Kind of my point in the "Trump tries to make dead man walk" link. It's over. It's like trying to keep people interested in horse buggies once Model T's start rolling off the line. China sure as fuck doesn't want 500 million citizens with lung disease to take care of the next 40-60 years. Our hopes of exporting coal to China are gone.
Here's LA in 1972 - note the gasmask. That genie ain't going back in the bottle.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 11:31am
Immelt's stepping up and specifically targeting Trump on it. (Doesn't feel his time is well spent fighting other Breitbart readers, I imagine.) We have come far from those 70's day, the radicals are on the other side.
by artappraiser on Wed, 03/29/2017 - 8:18pm
You along with many people seem to miss that the Warmer/Denier conflict is about two capitalist enterprises competeting for investments. Because the falling cost of solar has made it profitable it is growing, not because it is clean or green. Government intervention has nursed it to this point using the clean/green hype but that is ending. With coal fired Chinese sweatshops producing most of this clean/green energy product it will remain competetive and grow but forced conversion for questionable goals won't be allowed. The coal fired power industry will continue their conversion to gas but they won't be forced into too rapid a conversion by foreign mandates pushed through by an activist EPA such as Obama's CPP.
Trump has hardly moved any environmental pendulum, whatever that may be, he merely rejected Obama's last minute attempts to ram through new regulations. All the old regulation is still in effect and will probably remain so. Trump is forced to play politician now that he sets policy and his campaign promises of new or returned jobs in coal mining has to be delivered through his energy deregulation agenda. The only real possibility for growth in coal mining will come from exports not building new coal fired power plants here.
It was just a few years ago that the Chinese took the lead in fouling the planet with their growing pollution that visibly spreads to the US mainland at times along with their massive CO2 emissions. The US has been stedily reducing our CO2 emissions and our coal power plants at least have pollution removal systems unlike the belching Chinese industries. I see the NYT are equal opportunity propagandists and PR for sale opportunists or is this just deep state scolding because Trump doesn't behave the way they demand.
The revival of the energy/oil sector may have little to do with Trump's modest deregulation moves and a great deal to do with the markets. The cost of producing tight oil has fallen dramatically and the majors are fat with cash ready to drill and frack the huge new field in the Permain shales. This play is estimated as being four times the size of the Bakken and it's profitable to drill it at todays price so we may be seeing the beginning of another oil boom.
by Peter (not verified) on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 4:39pm
I suspect you should read more about China's investment in renewables.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 4:46pm
You really don't update your information, do you?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/30/2017 - 4:51pm