MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: "Can Ilhan Omar Overcome Her Prejudice?"
By artappraiser on Sun, 07/14/2019 - 2:35am |
URL:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-ilhan-omar-overcome-her-prejudice-11562970265
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Comments
I was very curious what she would think of this. Ayaan doesn't do that many interviews and, when she does, it's usually a friendly audience like Dave Rubin.
by Orion on Mon, 07/15/2019 - 5:05am
for those that can't get past the WSJ paywall, it's been reprinted by The Australian and they are giving access as a "sample" article, here
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/muslim-antisemitism-is-the-most-potent-form/news-story/b0f44a8708fcf69e11f22b368a52b8d8
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/15/2019 - 5:28am
A random aside but there is one country in Africa that is uniquely not anti-Semitic:
by Orion on Mon, 07/15/2019 - 5:32am
I'm not sure this video shows that, but it is certainly a fascinating report, thank you for sharing it.. Those soldiers are clearly very elite troops plus they all dressed up in their best fatiques and top equipment for the reporters, and do seem to carry themselves like Israeli anti-terror guys do, the best in the class, I'm sure. The village was said to have a collaboration problem, torn between both sides. We see the troops do nothing in this visit, but are told they gave up a boy as a collaborator last time. And when the troops come, they all come out and sit, divided by sex, as if prisoners of war, ready for inspection. I am reminded of many Vietnam stories....interesting...especially since Cameroon has a lot of major problems right now...
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/15/2019 - 7:22am
Cameroon is apparently the only country in Africa to have a collaborative relationship with Israel. Also the only one besides Eritrea to not recognize Palestine as well. Even had a program to teach agriculture to fortunate students from there while they blatantly blocked and mistreated other African migrants. Not really sure how the relationship developed but fight against Boko Haram has a lot to do with it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameroon%E2%80%93Israel_relations
by Orion on Tue, 07/16/2019 - 7:29pm
Yeah, but Israel's charm offensive with Ethiopia isn't working too well. Who knew black Jews would be so sensitive to racial discrimination.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/16/2019 - 5:11pm
Ethiopia is a totally different country and Israel doesn't seem to build alliances on such matters at all. Maybe in theory.
by Orion on Tue, 07/16/2019 - 7:48pm
Was referring to how Israel treats Jewish-Ethiopian immigrants.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/16/2019 - 8:25pm
Israel doesn't have strategic partnership with Ethiopia. That's all they really care about when it comes to making friends, for better or worse.
by Orion on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 10:59pm
I was also hoping to find an electronic copy of the article but even this Australian link today seems to have a paywall and will not show the article without a paid subscription...
by Brian H (not verified) on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 9:20am
Try this link:
https://newsbeezer.com/can-ilhan-omar-overcome-her-prejudices/
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 2:11pm
This was an interestingly enough article on Ali's experience but despite the headline it has almost nothing to do with Omar. We're back to one short tweet by Omar that supposedly condemns her as anti-semitic. There may be more but that one tweet is all that Ali addresses. Frankly I find it ridiculous to accuse her of anti-semitism based on that one tweet. Sanders and his troops spent every waking moment criticizing Hillary for taking wall street money for speeches and campaign contributions. The vast majority of his campaign was the equivalent of claiming that it's all about the benjamins. He was cheered on by liberals and conservatives alike for that criticism. Frankly I found the critique an exaggeration. But it was a ligitimate critique.
So too do I find Omar's critique an exaggeration. Issues are more complex than just the money involved. But pointing out the vast sums of money involved isn't anti-semitic simply because it's been a historic attack on jews. Critiques on money in politics is fair game whether we're critiquing the Koch brothers, Saudi Arabia, or the Jewish lobbies, etc. I understand the historic slur and we should be sensitive to it, but that doesn't mean they should get a free pass from the same criticisms that faced Hillary, the Koch brothers and every other person or institution that uses money to influence our government.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 2:59pm
I thought it was primarily a pun, Benjamin being Netanyahu's first name and money being *part* of his rather craven approach to power. (Sheldon's role seems to be to gift large bits of cash to unsavory conservatives, including funding the US-Israel link, but then the Mercers and Koch Brothers play similar roles with their cash, and they don't seem to be Jewish at all, and then there's Peter Thiel who massages the tech set, etc., so go figure.)
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 3:52pm
Benjamin is a slang term for money. It refers to the hundred dollar bill with Benjamin Franklin's picture. I learned this back in 1982 when I left the army and camped for a year in New Jersey on the Atlantic shore. People use benjamin not just to refer to actual cash. The locals all called the tourists Benjamin. For example, "I took a couple of Benjamins out on a fishing trip this morning." Then follows a discussion of how much money they made often with laughter about how they took them for all they could get. It's also used in rap.
I assumed Omar had picked up the slang some where.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 4:11pm
Yes, that's why I said a pun for Bibi's first name & money.
Not sure where Omar would have picked this up...
And since not everyone watches MTV or pays attention to hip-hop, prolly an obscure reference.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 5:19pm
I'm sure that occasionally when people talk about benjamins the person they're referring to is actually named benjamin. That doesn't make it a pun. That makes it a coincidence. But, whatever.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 6:19pm
I assumed it was a pun on Bibi, but maybe not.
Here's AIPAC whipping congressmembers to attend a special session of Congress to hear Bibi insult Obama. They can go fuck themselves. And I would feel the same about any Italian, Russian, Irish, Chinese or ither lobbying group.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/aipac-we-never-oppose...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 6:36pm
Just an aside since you mention early 80's in jersey. from my misspent youth in the midwest, in the late 70's: the term of benjamin began to be used for a hundred dollar bill by those types who used hundred dollar bills to snort cocaine. Then in the late 83 when I moved to NYC: you could buy cocaine from the head porter at the auction house I worked for, but like everywhere else in NYC, benjamins were no longer accepted because there were so many counterfeit ones out there. (It was the height of the crack epidemic )
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 7:23pm
Interesting, I didn't know about the drug connection. I never heard the term growing up and had a period of confusion when I moved to NJ. Especially with all the people calling tourists Benjamins. It seems to be much more commonly used these days.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 8:33pm
Omar's comment about the Benjamins, is a long well known slur on Jews, as if all Jews are wealthy (which is not true) and control everything with their wealth.
by Ita sara (not verified) on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 1:12am
"All About the Benjamin's" is a Puff Daddy song, so part of Hip-Hop culture, with the obvious link of "Benjamin (Franklin), i.e. $100 dollar bill. So far, no reference to "Jewish".
Benjamin Netanyahu, aka Bibi, has the first name Benjamin, but is disliked by many for trying to go to war with Iran, sucking up to Republicans while insulting the (black) (Democratic) President. Making a pun between Bibi, a nasty conservative huckster known for lots of fuzzy math with his wife on campaign money, not to mention her obnoxious self-entitled behavior, along with their drunk son at strip clubs bragging about huge amounts of money he somehow has access to as child of what might be thought of as a poor public servant...
Sorry, "thieving scumbag politicians" tends to trump a usual prohibition about a mean slur against typical non-controlling non-amazungly-rich-and-well-cinnected Jews. Bibi and Sheldon Alderson don't control the world. They do affect a lot of the nastiness in the Mideast (not that Arabs and Persians who also have lots of Benjamin's don't have plenty or quite arguably the majority of the blame) and US politics (where aside from Trump's moving the embassy and recognizing Golan Heights, AIPAC's self-interested influence seems on the decline vs say evangelicals).
So fuck it - it was a clever little throwaway pun referencing a hip-hop song and a greedy corrupt Israeli politician named Benjamin - not a slur about the entire Jewish race. Oh, and having Benjamins doesnt make one rich - hocked out and hopped up coke addicts flashing hundreds was a big thing in the 70s back when $109 was worth a lot more. And sure, Bibi is as concerned about self-promotion as he is about survival against continual coreuption and embezzlement INDICTMENTS he's been fighting thru his PM position FOR YEARS. So go ahead, try to distract by a trope that in this case is true - Bibi has no moral standards - will do most anything fo a buck and to be a nasty shit. Of course Trump is the same way, but much less clever (though Trump is far "trickier", so I'm not assigning Bibi any supernatural proto-racist assignation of world-dominating cleverness - just a normal smart guy without scruples who amassed quite a bit of political power over the years surviving in a tough Israeli political scene.
BTW, what about trying to shame Omar into disavowing PTSD in her drone-bombes countrymen, supposedly cuz attributing PTSD to anyone but our sacred troops is an insult to said troops? Just like taking a knee against beating and murder of blacks is an insult somehow to "our troops_?
I liked the 70s better when free speech still existed and you could talk normal about stuff, not this twisted hyoer-formulaic gotcha propaganda.
Netanyahu's son discusses gas deal, prostitutes in strip club recording
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-son-strip-clu...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 2:09am
Switching from the Saudis' $100 billion to promote Wahabbism to Qatar's $30 million for schools is quite the segue - too my stomach a sec to catch up with the roller coaster.
The Israelis have "hypnotized" or bribed or otherwise convinced the GOP especially, but US political leadership overall (think of the near100% who fell obliged to express their support for Israel - , to carry out Israeli foreign wishes as a de facto arm of America's foreign policy, even if it's counter to what's good for the US. Backing out of the Iranian denuclearization deal seems like one of our more insane foreign policy moves ever - and there's a lot of competition. 10 years in Iraq was just the local boost israel needed to cement its Mideast position and those little historical "facts on the ground".
Here's a review of Hirsi Ali & van Gogh's "Submission" -
https://www.villagevoice.com/2004/11/09/the-day-i-became-a-martyr-islam-...
another:
https://web.archive.org/web/20041014212317/http://www.theovangogh.nl/Hir...
Hirsi Ali is roughly a Muslim repentant Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham. She's got 1 major shtick, attack Islam through whatever means, and while obviously there's lots to criticize Islam about, her methods are insulting and inciteful. (van Gogh's murder being a not-too-unpredictable response to what was largely an obscene attack on Islam.)
But now she has the almighty nerve to scold Omar about how she talks about Israel? If Omar's right, she's right: if Omar's wrong, she's wrong. But Hirsi Ali broke all the trappings of decorum about how you address an opponent in argument, how you show respect in informing disagreement. Hirsi Ali is a trouble maker and self-aggrandizer as much as she's a Muslim reformer. She's out for revenge, still feeling wronged - ignoring that most of the world feels wronged by someone - their local culture/religion, foreigners, male abusers, economic exploiters, unjust wars, poverty, what not. The Muslim world's hatred of Israel is most times absurd, but so is the American Right & evangelical love of the mythological Israel, the non-Christians who are helping out by bringing on the rapture (and just maybe some clever scriptwriter - God? - will figure out how to make Jews believers all along, but if not, thanks for the kebab...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/15/2019 - 9:31am
Ali's parentage were revolutionaries who fought off the Italians during World War II (look it up) during their ascent of Ethiopia and neighboring countries in East Africa. Ali caused a lot of bad blood with what she did and said. She can never go back. A wave of much more moderate but just as critical voices came after her - Malala Yousafzai, Hirshad Manji, etc.
I would say there's a decent chance Omar knows who she is and is doing the reverse - showing any Muslim women who might be drawn to the freedoms of the west that it's really run by white supremacists that hate them and that even if it seems a bit on the rough side sometimes, Islam is where they truly belong.
by Orion on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 11:01pm
I don't agree with you as regards her op-ed. A lot of what she is talking about is a mutated version of Islam that in various third world tribal cultures perpetuates all kinds of stupid basic tribal prejudices that have nothing to do with Islam (just like Catholicism used to do). They use Islam as an excuse now for the same anti-Semitism they've had for a thousand years, same with gays. So she got won over to radical secularism. That's not ideal, but to my mind that's still far better than being a radical yahweh-ist. I' m with what jolly roger used to say: damn the yahwehists of any type. Israel has a growing minority of nutty yahweh-ists but its founding zionist principles are basically secular and it still allows for secularism and that's what she's admiring, I am sure. What she is talking about here to a fellow ex-Somali woman, the learning from a young age of putting a whole section of people down and blaming them for everything bad that happens, including the weather and if a cake falls in the oven, is the same primitive culture that does this. It's not really Islam, it's just that "Wahabbi" style Islam appropriated the fertile negative local cultural details to its own ends, spreading to those cultures using the oil money via zakat. It's no different than Pat Robertson missions, sure. I'm all for panning those too. Along with the ultra orthodox kookoos that Bibi panders to. If we are going to draw "us vs. them" lines, though, I'd be on Ali's. Same on Israel, as nasty as they can be sometimes.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/22/2019 - 11:36pm
As an atheist who finds all religions at best ridiculous and often harmful with fundamentalist Islam the worst I'm with Ali. I'm suspicious of anyone who is religious. That's my bias. But how ever much Omar was raised in the same way as Ali I've seen nothing so far to indicate she still stands by those ideas. She seems to be pretty liberal, more liberal than the average Americanized Muslim.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 07/23/2019 - 12:36am
Not sure if this was to me, but I think Hirsi Ali's problems are in method and form of self-promotion rather than that she exposes backwards practices in Africa. Her insults towards Koran believers go far past or to the side of what's needed to stop genital mutilation or child brides or whatever.
Re: Omar, I was wondering how we sidestepped her point that the US was drone killing her people, the Somalis - that her "hate" is only some irrational thing re The Benjamins rather than our hesitation - often championed by the left - about indiscrimate killings in countries beyond the news, Yemen being the latest and more severe, Pakistan had the air of "what else can we do? (aside from attack wedding parties hoping to kill a few bad hombres)". Brown skinned people need not apply...
In quoting a well-known song re the influence of money in lobbying, she stepped on a deadman's switch that says "no elected official will criticize Israel's craven selfpromotion in any meaningful way". So Israel can unilaterlly kill the peace process, get us to help them go to war or play chicken with Iran, continue to act like shits towards Palestinians, and any objections like the Boycott are de facto anti-semitism.
https://www.courthousenews.com/israel-destroys-palestinian-homes-in-east...
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/23/2019 - 1:01am
I deal with Israel by thinking : What would I ask David Grossman ?
I do know that people behave badly when they feel they could be wiped out. Again.
by Flavius on Thu, 07/25/2019 - 9:06am
Omar criticized Saudi Arabia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar
Trump has suggested that Benjamin Netanyahu was the leader of the Jews
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/05/republicans-and-democrats-say-their-criticism-of-ilhan-omar-is-about-anti-semitism-theyre-gaslighting-you/
Republicans use anti-Semitic tropes
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/05/republicans-and-democrats-say-their-criticism-of-ilhan-omar-is-about-anti-semitism-theyre-gaslighting-you/
Omar apologized for her statement about the Benjamins
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 9:31am
People have to eat shit sandwiches all the time, whether they. believe it or just fake enjoyment with it going down.
In any case, your comment is all over the fucking place. Is that intentional?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 9:39am
The July 2019 WSJ article accuses Omar of Anti-Semitism, we hear Anti-Semitism from Republicans all the time.
Omar has criticized both Israel and Saudi Arabia
She apologized for her comment about the Benjamins
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 9:55am
Bernie Sanders supported Omar and Vice versa
Omar is working to fight against white supremacy with Jan Schakowsky, a Jewish member of Congress
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/443602-ilhan-omar-and-illinois-dem-co-author-op-ed-on-threat-of-white-nationalism
I think my post addresses the charge of Omar being anti-Semitic. I think Omar is addressing actions by Saudi Arabia and Israel, not condemning an entire ethnic or religious group.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 10:27am
Hmm, saying Trump is an anti-semite or that Omar confronting Saudi Arabia aren't quite relevant to whether Omar acts or is anti-semitic.nor the "some of my best friends are Jewish" reference to Bernie. Again, all over the place, swing and a miss.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 10:35am
I disagree. Working directly with a Jewish Congresswoman, getting sport from Sanders, and criticizing Saudi Arabia are important points.
Noting that Trump and the Republicans get a pass is also relevant.
Edit to add:
Omar did not say that some of her best friends were Jewish
Sander gave Omar his support
Schakowsky gave Omar her support
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/22/2020 - 11:44am