The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Michael Maiello's picture

    Obama's Down and Out On Wall Street

    Apparently, President Obama is having trouble raising Wall Street money for 2012.  One anonymous champion of capitalism even complains that it's because "Obama simply doesn't like rich people."  I figure a statement like that will draw cackles around here.  If Obama doesn't like rich people, who the heck does he like?  And, if he treats the people he dislikes as well as he's been treating the rich, how do I get on the big guy's bad side?

    I used to write a political op-ed column for Forbes and my very first headline was, "Obama Loves The Rich."  This was back when everyone was howling about what a socialist he was in the wake of the financial crisis.  Back then, the president did socialize Wall Street's losses, spreading the pain caused by a few amongst all of the citizens in an attempt to save the very people who now inist that he hates them.  But that's about as far as the socialism (actually, corporatism -- the collusion of business and government interests and, to a lesser extent with the Detroit rescue, labor) went.  What really happened during the bailouts was a form of socialism for the rich.  It was high end welfare.

    In exchange, Obama wanted to loosely regulate compensation at the banks for as long as they remained under government protection.  These were incredibly light terms.  The government didn't take much direct equity in the banks.  The government didn't fire any executives.  Even though the U.S. was forced to become the largest single shareholder of Citigroup it didn't use its muscle to fire Vikrim Pandit, who had led the bank into ruin.  Imagine that.  Not only did taxpayers generously rescue Pandit's bank, Pandit still has a job.

    The subsequent financial regulation reforms that Obama signed into law were written in consultation with the evry people who caused the crisis in the first place.  For all the trouble these banks caused, they were asked to give up very a little.  Perhaps Goldman is angry that it will have to close down a few proprietary trading desks but if they were honest with themselves they'd realize that the regulations might actually save their company.  Without prop desks, clients might have some assurance that their banker isn't out to screw them.  Goldman can't manage its conflicts of interest so it'd be better off if the government took them away.  It's not a regulation, it's a favor.

    Of course, business people don't like to be told what to do.  This, to me, was the most telling observation of the essay "Why Not Keynes?" by James K. Galbraith:

    "That is what made Keynes insufferable. It wasn’t that as a young man he liked boys. It wasn’t that he taught that that thrift is a vice, or that savings are pathological, that deficits are helpful, that debt is necessary, that interest rates should be kept low, that the economy should be run at full employment for the good of all. It wasn’t even his reference at the end of The General Theory to the “euthanasia of the rentier.”

    No, it was the fact that Keynesian policy required Keynes. And if Keynes were in charge, then the captains of industry could not be. Larry Summers is not Keynes. But he did give the impression, for a while, of running the show. This was a fatal error. It was the impression of making policy that business and the Tea Party could not stand. A better policy would not have been better liked."

    For these people it isn't enough that the government spends billions to save them from their own failures, or that the government uses the force of American foreign policy to advance the global interests of its largest businesses, or that they enjoy the loudest voices by far in the political process -- they appreciate none of that a bit.

    They have to be in charge.  They don't want to be told what to do.  They don't even want to be told what to do when it's in their best interests.  No government has been so helpful to businesses in such a hands off way as the U.S. government has since the middle of the 20th century.  China's government helps its large corporations but it also owns huge stakes in each and directs their activities.  Do you know what China's government would do to Lloyd Blankfein were he to lie to them the way he lied to Carl Levin?

    It's sad, of course, that the plutocracy is now way past the point where Obama can run for president without courting Wall Street.  It'd be nice if he could rely on small donors to make up for the lack of that largesse but the fact is that the top 10% can outspend the bottom 90% if it wants to and, of course, the bottom 90% is politically polarized (and, of course, some of us normals on the left don't feel that the President has come anywhere near earning our donations).

    Obama has served American business, particularly the financial sector, very well since he took office.  I don't even mean that to be a pejorative statement.  I really mean that from my perspective, if you look at where the banking system was in 2009 and where it is today, it's stunning that we hear complaints and whining out of New York's financial district.

    The simple fact is that just like a group of people in the woods of Kentucky claiming to be "sovereign citizens," America's business interests refuse to be governed.  At all.  They're not anarchists because none of them would survive anarchy.  They need laws to direct people to respect their property, to pay their bills and to show up for work every day.  But they will not submit to laws that govern their behavior.

    Even something so simple as "please don't secretly trade against the products that you're selling to your clients," is translated as, "he hates us."  If they sound like children it's because it's the same mentality:  "You're not the boss of me!"  But beyond that, they demand to be the bosses.

    The lesson for Obama should be simple, though I fear he'll never get it.  Short of handing over the reins of the U.S. government to the Chamber of Commerce, there is nothing that he can do that these people will find acceptable.  He saved their businesses and they complained every step of the way and didn't even say thank you.  So maybe he should try playing to the rest of the country.  We just might appreciate the help.

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    Comments

    Wonderful essay, destor.


    Yup.

    Amen from me, Destor. Well done.


    I too like the way you put things Destor,

    The conclusion I draw is this. Obama thinks he can serve two masters.

    HE CANNOT SERVE BOTH, he only gives both sides’ half efforts. Both sides can easily find fault with him.

    Choose; be a refreshing relief to what ails this country,  either be hot or cold, no one likes luke warm.

    Obama has become the half assed President. 


    Its simply mind boggling what has happened in this country.  2008 financial crisis was just this weird passing thing, everybody should now forget about it.  I would say I was dumbfounded but we watched it unfold. I confess I had such hope of some real systemtic change, not crazy cultural revoultion stuff but I really thought some serious structural change was likely. Medicare for all. High taxes on 1 million plus.  A tax on speculative financial flows.  A completely open clearinghouse for derivtives transactions or better yet, unwinding the market. Serious investment in education.  An Infrastruture bank. A serious national program to put construction workers back to work with energy effciency upgrades/distrubited energy/smart grid/rebuilding our crumbling nfrastructure.  Now I am cynical, no actually simply numb.  I feel as though I am watching a car wreck in slow motion, and I am not there. 

    I despise who I will vote for. And nobody, absolutly nobody seems to give a shit, every honest democratic firebomb thrower simply self destruct with the media dancing.  Meanwhile the right is considered "normal." I simply have no idea what to do. we have no movement. Truth no longer matters.

    Btw-

    "Do you know what China's government would do to Lloyd Blankfein were he to lie to them the way he lied to Carl Levin"  

    Best line I have read in a while. Thanks


    I especially liked this:

    "They're not anarchists because none of them would survive anarchy.  They need laws to direct people to respect their property, to pay their bills and to show up for work every day.  But they will not submit to laws that govern their behavior."


    Here's a clue for Obama:  Business people admire brass-testicled bastards.  The higher up one goes in the corporate food chain, the more ruthless and callous the bastards get.  The corporate masses read magazines and other industry media filled with worshipful paeans to the four-star generals of efficient and avaricious ruthlessness, and they dream of becoming one of those conscienceless, pillaging Huns themselves.  If some big-suited big shot throws the widows out on the street and eats the orphans, the admiring corporate hordes go "ooohh" and "aaahh".   Their model of heroism isn't Dag Hemmerskjold;  it's more like Kaiser Sossei.

    If Obama wants big wheel corporate business people to admire him, he should treat them like shit and then brag about it.  He should tax and regulate their asses hard.   And if they bitch about it and don't give money to his campaign, he should work them over double.  The more Obama sucks up, the less respect they have for him.  The typical corporate CEO is surrounded by suck-ups that he holds in contempt.  What he respects is someone with the moxie to punch him in the jaw.



    When it comes to Wall Street, Obama strikes me as the college freshman wanting a little too badly to get that fraternity bid.  Taking note of that, the bid committee decides he's not cool, not worthy of them, not someone they want.  And when they don't extend him the bid they know that for the next 3 years he'll continue to look longingly at the frat house every time he walks by.


    This is a bit in line with Kervick...

    I was just listening to the National Republican Leadership Conference on the radio and I came away with one thought: We elected the wrong guy.

    A number of people--I remember Den Valdron in particular--said that we needed a fighter in the WH because the Republicans were fighters. A Canadian, he leaned toward Hillary for that reason.

    Hillary had been thoroughly raked over by the right-wingers and was not only standing, but moving ahead, unbowed and unrepentant.

    Listening to these utter assholes yell from the rooftops about the invincibility of Republican principles and denigrate Obama in the most shameless terms, all I could think was: What has Obama been doing treating these people as anything but the dirt beneath his feet?

    That's what they've been doing to him for the past three years.

    And now, they are EMBOLDENED.

    Listening to them sent shivers down my spine, and so my second thought was: Obama MUST win if for no other reason than to act as some kind of obstacle to their agenda. They take over the WH, we are in for a long, bad ride that will make this past three years look like nothing happened.

    It's not only CEOs who respect naked power--a lot of the American people do. That's Christie's appeal. If Obama is thrown out and we lose the Senate, it will be read as a repudiation of liberalism and then you can forget about everything else unless they drive the economy into a ditch and we end up with 20%-30% unemployment.


    Obama "The Neutered"?  Why should he be the Democratic nominee??????????


    Because abandoning him--unless we had a supersonic alternative--would be much worse.


    You are wrong.

    The Obama campaign wants you to believe, he's the best and only chance for Democrats to win. 

    Doh!  You think they have a vested interest in making this claim?

    Don't allow anyone to the left of Obama, the center right candidate?  

    You only offered your opinion and here's mine

    With the field of Republicans as it stands now; it wouldnt take a supersonic alternative.

    Mickey mouse could win against this field.


    Not so.

    If the party abandons its horse in mid-stream, then the party's credibility at being able to pick a good candidate suffers.


    Mid stream?

    What is the objective, Get across the river, swim upstream or swim downstream?

    It looks as though Obama wanted to swim with the sharks, in the deep waters, in mid stream.   

    The peasants were the chum? Maybe the sharks will get there fill and leave Obama to get across the waters safely?

    Had he stayed focused on the JOBS JOBS JOBS, he should have been across the river already.

    Instead at midsteam, were all drowning gettingeaten by the sharks, accept Obamas bankers friends 

    Mid stream; Palin could have gotten us that far.  

    Evidently we need to change the term limits?.

    His term is about up and he has failed, We shouldnt have to wait for a second term ( Mid stream?) to see if things will get better under his direction.

    We aint looking for the milk man, whose milking the system for all he can get.  


    Obama MUST win if for no other reason than to act as some kind of obstacle to their agenda.

    I don't really feel like getting into a big flame-war over this one again, but just a few considerations:

    - look at the present financial policy team: Geithner, Immelt, Daley, Bernanke, Bair. Who of those three is the most serious about restraining Wall Street? I submit: the two Bush appointees - Bernanke and Bair.

    - Look at DOJ investigations of Wall Street. Oh yeah, they're coluding with the Banks accused of fraud to help crush critics in the media, rather than investigating the fraud.

    - look at the reforms to corporate governance after the greatest breakdown in the agent-principal relationship since the depression. What reforms...? Nada! Look at Bush's much smaller financial market crisis, and the reforms that got passed after that. Sarbox sucks, but it's something.

    - Obama's policies have goosed corporate profits/incomes of the rich to the detriment of the working class much more than Bush-era policies.

    - Look at 2008 political contributions from Wall Street: 70% went to Obama. He was the Wall Street candidate. Not to mention that Rahm Emanuel's strategy in the House was based on wooing Wall Street.

    These remarks aren't intended to say Bush was personally more concerned about restraining the corporate class than Obama. They perhaps do show that when a Republican is in the White House, there is much more pressure to not appear too sold out. They perhaps show that Republicans won't get bullied. They perhaps show that with a Republican in the White House, Democrats in Congress are more effective/incentivized to oppose pro-corporate policy. I submit that people give Obama a pass on his lack of opposition to Wall Street because they assume he has his heart in the right place and ... is trying. They don't give Republicans the same benefit of the doubt.

    There are lots of areas where I can see someone like Romney being worse than Obama. Environmental policy, social issues, maybe foreign policy. But financial policy can't get worse. The only way it gets worse is if Bernanke and Bair get replaced by ... Obama Democrats.

    Just my humble opinion.


    I submit that people give Obama a pass on his lack of opposition to Wall Street because they assume he has his heart in the right place and ... is trying.

    “When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.” ~ Oscar Wilde on Assumption

    “But when assumptions are sometimes true. Then you're the ass, not me. ”

    ~ Bryan Yeo on Assumption


    So then you would counsel voting for Romeny...or a Pataki, who's testing the waters?


    Something like that. but, again, there's more to life than financial policy.


    Like dismantling Medicare.

    You also have to contemplate the possibility that a Romney would bring the Senate with him and keep the House.

    Then you don't have any push-back.


    Yes, and there's that.


    AND revisit privatizing Social Security...anyone out there who isn't scared shitless by the prospect of the repubs being in charge of the whole shooting match is on drugs I'd like to get MY hands on!

    Obama has certainly not been all we had hoped he would be, but I hate to think where we would be if McCain had won, or if the repubs take the WH and the senate this time around.


    If you can't challenge the Democratic Parties Corporate Elites coronation of Obama, when the Republican field is so weak now; when would you challenge the only option the Corporate democrats offer?

    Would you challenge them when the Republicans are stronger?


    I would challenge it when there isn't a Democratic incumbent.

    A party turning against its incumbent--especially when it went so whole hog for him just three years ago--will be read by regular folks and with some reason as a self-indictment of the party, its policies, and its philosophy.

    It certainly won't be read as Democrats wisely turning away from "corporate elites."

    You see, while here in Dagworld, Obama is seen as a corporatist sell-out; out in the real world, he's seen as a lefty and a crypto-socialist.

    Notice that the Republicans have taken the Democrats place at the Wall Street table or are trying to. Are ordinary folks, or Republican rank and file, or teabaggers screaming about the "Republican Parties Corporate Elites"? They are not.


    A party turning against its incumbent--especially when it went so whole hog for him just three years ago--will be read by regular folks and with some reason as a self-indictment of the party, its policies, and its philosophy.

    E X A C T L Y!!! The point of turning against the incumbent who won so easily would be to demonstrate that the electorate wanted what Obama said he was. Or at least, for the benefit of those who argue that what he has actually turned out to be was completely evident before the election, what people thought he was. The people who  voted for Obama and all the other Democrats wanted something much closer to the stated Democratic platform than what the elected representatives of the Democratic party have shown to be their actual favored policies and philosophy. The hoped for point of turning against the incumbent is to make the incumbent change or convince him that he will lose next time around if he doesn't.
     If Obama were to be challenged in the primaries and both the challenger and Obama campaigned saying word for word again what Obama said last time, I would vote for the challenger.


    Ah, I don't think you really read what I said when you said "exactly."

    Or maybe I don't understand you.

    I tend to think that all these "signals" we think we're sending by voting this way or that are received in much more simplistic terms by the average voter.

    A challenger who won over Obama by saying what Obama said in 2008 would, I predict, lose.

    Here's why: People would say, "We bought that line last time. It didn't work. The guy was a phony. Even the Democrats realize it. And now they're trying to sell it to us again. Same shit; different bucket. Fool us once and..."


    Are ordinary folks, or Republican rank and file, or teabaggers screaming about the "Republican Parties Corporate Elites"?

    Ask "Boner" if the Tea baggers have his ears?  

    The Tea baggers don't like our jobs being exported. What have the Democrats done lately on that front?


    Teabaggers are against taxes.

    Teabaggers are against "big government."

    No one likes jobs being exported--Kerry didn't like it back in 2004.

    But Republicans are all FOR free trade. All AGAINST unions. You don't find any teabaggers (at least none I've seen) arguing against free trade or for protectionist policies.

    Teabaggers are just Republicans on steroids. When they argue for cutting government spending, they want it slashed in half right. now.

    They are the folks who truly believe in Republican rhetoric and don't want no lip service paid.

    The reason teabaggers have Boehner's ears is because his party was washed up in 2008. The baggers brought them back from the dead and may send them back there if they don't ease up.


    Teabaggers are against taxes.

    Well so  am I, I also don’t like my government owing China billions of dollars; that eventually I am enslaved to pay the Chinese back, because Uncle Sam used up My good credit.  

    Teabaggers are against "big government."

    So am I, I love my country but I fear my government.

    “It says here in your files, MR ANDERSON, you were at the WTO protests; maybe you're one of those subversives, you speak up too much, inciting people to distrust Us, your savior.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvf4o997Pow&feature=related

    We think you should be watched more closely. You like renditions, maybe a little waterboarding will straighten you up?"

    The Government takes us much as we can bear, then they come in as the big savior. Telling us “We need them” No we didn’t expect them to take over our lives..

    "You want Government assistance, tell us all about yourself; and what you don’t want to tell them, they already know, because they've tapped your phones.

    I know enough about history how they give some folks blankets with small pox, and then tell the folks they’re here to help.

    Or some of the syphilis tests they performed on some, “Oh yeah trust the government”  

    Big Government is not the friend of the people.

    Limited government was what our forefathers envisioned, for a reason.  

    Some Democrats are beginning to scare the people who want to be free.

    Deficit reductions save us from being indentured to China, but I am afraid it may be too late.

       “As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible, avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it, avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertion in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear. The execution of these maxims belongs to your representatives, but it is necessary that public opinion should co-operate. To facilitate to them the performance of their duty, it is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised which are not more or less inconvenient and unpleasant; that the intrinsic embarrassment, inseparable from the selection of the proper objects (which is always a choice of difficulties), ought to be a decisive motive for a candid construction of the conduct of the government in making it, and for a spirit of acquiescence in the measures for obtaining revenue, which the public exigencies may at any time dictate.    Washington's Farewell Address 1796  

    “The answer to our continued existence is not more taxes;  it is to cherish public credit, use it sparingly”  

    LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS

    And NOT “throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear” .

      


    --  Three wars, no end in sight, one he declares isn't really a war

    --  An Interior Secretary who botched deep-water drilling, then started issuing permits again, and will open up the Alaskan Strategic oil fields soon; tabled indefinitely Wildnerness designation studies  for millions of acres

    --  An economic advisor in the person of Gene Sperling who says that the natural gas industry should agree to common sense regulation to ease public worries about contaminated water since shale fracking is so vital to the oil shale boom.  Bet he's bullish on the State Dept. okaying the giant pipeline across the plains to carry oil from the tar sands in Canada, too

    --  Kinda ended his support for Labor with his appointments (good ones; were they ever confirmed?) to the NLRB

    --  Wire-tapping, surveillance of anyone, foreign or domestic; DoJ busting medical marijuana growers, not fraudulent bankers? 

    --  Agreeing with the Chamber of Commerce that too many regs are in the way of business; gotta go out and get those suckers...

    --  Three trade deals in the works while 20 million Americans are out of work

    --  Has announced plans to veto Palestine's statehood if, as predicted, the General Assembly votes for it in September, while Bibi says not to blame him for the Third Intifada

    --  Remember: RomneyCare and the ACA are fairly identical

    And damn, Destor; I wish you had meant this as a perjorative, given the state of the economy for the rest of us: "Obama has served American business, particularly the financial sector, very well since he took office."

    And Peter, two things: If Obama wins as we all suspect, I'd doubt he'll do anything much differently than he has now, since he will see what he has done or not done as a mandate; and two, is this what a liberal agenda looks like? 

    Medicare: I wish I understood the AARP gives in to changes in the blurb Cho posted in the news; but selling that dreck to the membership may get the membership riled enough to get them in the streets; their kin, too.

    Just putting a couple more cents here.  ;o)


    And Peter, two things: If Obama wins as we all suspect, I'd doubt he'll do anything much differently than he has now, since he will see what he has done or not done as a mandate; and two, is this what a liberal agenda looks like?

    I'm not suspecting that at this point. This was my point. And isn't this kinda sorta the point of this Bloomberg article?  That he's NOT getting the money from WS that he needs or that one would expect given how much he's "done" for them?

    And then there's the economy which is always the "third candidate" in every race. It ain't rooting for him at this point.

    As far as mandates go, your point feels somewhat convoluted. If what you say were true wouldn't that have led Obama to implement all the things he had campaigned on? And yet, you would say that he had a mandate which he ignored or even went against?

    I suspect that, if he wins, he will feel lucky unless he crushes his opponent. I don't know what he'll do if he wins. With no need to campaign again, he might turn left, especially if he has a Congress with him. I mean, love him or leave him, it's not like he hasn't had to deal with a lot of opposition to what he's tried to do or to who he is as a president and as a man.

    If he were truly the Greek gift he's portrayed as--in league with the enemy--I don't think the enemy would have tried to sink his presidency with such consistent ferocity. After all, what could be better than having a very popular Democrat doing the bidding of Republicans and their interests?

     


    I can see Gates beating him in the general.


    When he got to the Oval Office he clearly switched out his team (except for the idiot Axelrod and a few others) for Clintonites where he didn't simply leave Bushites in place, so no, he seemed to have forgotten his Campaign Obama self pretty well early on.  This time if he wins, I would think he would take it as approval of his first term.

    Guess I'm not quite yet buyng the WSJ piece yet.  Remember when there was that whole flap about Jamie Dimon (I think it was) and the deal he and O cooked up to leak tension between them, then it turned out said banker was on his call sheet twice a day anyway for weeks, months?  This feels like that to me, unless the Big Boys are holding out for more from him, sort of campaign extortion, which it may all be in the end.  Maybe Destor sees it more clearly, or you do, rightly and as the truth, but I confess since that last bit of theater, I have my doubts. 

    I remembered when I was in the garden that I'd forgotten to say that the choice would get a lot more complicated if it's not Romney, but Rick Perry, who's the nominee.

    And which enemy do you mean?  That has me scratching my  head.


    Frankly, I'm almost to the point where I want a Republican to win in 2012.  Since these anti-Obama types are so sure there's no damn difference between Obama and the next Republican, people who also coincidentally claim they are suffering so badly solely because of the curent administration's action (or inaction), why don't we go ahead and see?  If the country survives two terms of a Romney, Bachmann, or Perry, maybe then they'll shut up and get in line behind the Democrat, no matter how offensive to their pure progressive souls.

    But somehow, I suspect the next Democratic victory will only result in more crowing about how they are the base that elected him so he'd better listen to them goddammit, along with second-guessing every move that president makes, and finally melodramatic threats to leave the party if their every whim isn't indulged from the moment that president steps down from the inauguration podium.  


      "Frankly, I'm almost to the point where I want a Republican to win in 2012."

    I have been, for quite a while now, to the point where I want a Democrat to win. Political party affiliation shouldn't be like pro sports where who you root for is determined only by the uniform they wear. If Obama was to swap jersies and declare that now that we know how he will lead he is going to run as a Republican and continue to lead in the same way, would yoyu still vote for him? If this were the second term of Bush and every policy, every action, since the last election had been the same, would you be supporting  Bush and running down those who criticized him and said that they cannot support that kind of leadership with another vote?

     


    This wasn't directed to me...but I like it because it sort of clarifies how much confusion I feel as we argue this back and forth.

    If you take the jersey metaphor, it's almost like watching a game with players in two sets of jerseys, but you can't tell which team a given player is on.

    Is he really a Blue...or is he a Red pretending to be a Blue...or is he triple or quadruple crossing the fans to the point where no one knows what any of the players are really doing.

    Did the Blue guy stop short of the goal line because he was tackled...or did he slow down so he could be tackled? Did Red tackle him so a fellow Red could credibly pretend to be a blue. And so on.

    In these discussions, I'm starting to lose track.

    Here are my guide posts: No MODERN Republican would have gone for a stimulus, universal health care, financial regulation, repeal of DADT, Cap and Trade, or Lilly. 

    (Romney MIGHT have gone for universal health care, but not after he has so thoroughly rejected the idea at a national level. He suffers the same "dual or ambiguous identity" problem Obama does from the other side--but not as bad.)


    Exactly.  I don't root for Democrats because they're Democrats.  To the extent that I "root" for either political party, it's because on every single issue of any importance to me, Democrats are better than the only viable alternative.  "Rooting" for them makes a whole lot more sense than making political choices based on the rise of an imaginary (at this point in time, at least) progressive majority.    


    I think you need to move your guide posts Peter.

    I wouldn't vote for a Republican, ANY fracking Republican, because they're likely to do God knows what insane goddamn thing next. Exhibit A = Iraq.

    However. A batch of Republicans factually supported the bail-out and financial maneuvers. Same with cap and trade. Not that hard for me to imagine a Republican eventually moving on DADT, any more than it was to imagine one that decided to learn to speak Spanish and appeal to the Hispanic vote. As for health care... it'd all depend on when, where, and how. There are ways to do it - as we learned during the debate - which don't seem to crease the pants of the health industry too too much.

    Still. I completely dislike their leaders, and trust them less than I like them. That's good enough for me.


    Tangentially to what you say about C&T and health care...

    Newt was asked why he supported a mandate in the 1990s and is now against it.

    Basically, what he said was that he was for a mandate and the Dole plan because it was a way to oppose HillaryCare. It wasn't a position he wanted to pursue for its own sake, but simply a political tool for killing off the Democratic plan.

    So I wonder if they are actually for C&T or anything other than allowing the market to run free of like a wild horse on the open plains.

    Of course, I mean CURRENT Republicans and, I suppose, the party could change. In fact, I see some hints that Romney is trying to break the stranglehold of movement conservatism on the Republican Party by NOT disavowing RomenyCare and NOT signing the pro-life pledge. But...

     


    Peter, check out Mankiw's oped which I linked to. Mankiw is Romney's economic advisor. And he's saying: tax the rich!

    Interesting.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/business/economy/19view.html?_r=1&part...


    I liked yours and Lulu's teams and jerseys metaphor, Peter, and the questions of 'what did we just see', which is of course where we all disagree here so often. 

    But waaay above you made the point that Obama must be re-elected or the Democratic brand will be spoiled for the foreseeable future.  And to that point, some of us sincerely trying to take a longer view: that it's spoiled now, and we either reclaim it from the inside, or work as countervaling forces outside in numbers large enough to influence the debate and guide the policy, away from the one-percenters and toward the rest of us.  I just never can see why that's such a problem for some of you to grasp.  We're traitorous somehow because. for instance, if you list fin-reg as an Obama accomplishment, I say nope; not even; the administration worked hard against all the most basic, and isn't enforcing it so far.  See what I mean?   ;o)


    Yes, I do see what you mean and I think you make a lot of sense.

    I, personally, don't think of you or Dan or anyone here as "traitors" to the Democratic Party. If I've said anything like that, let me take a page from Newt's book and say, "Whatever I said, it's not true."

    But it IS true that I worry about the consequences for progressive ideals if Obama loses. Of course, nothing is forever. Movement conservatism finally won two decades after Goldwater's defeat.

    And actually, when you look at the history, conservatism's nadir and liberalism's apogee occurred at just about the same point: Goldwater/LBJ. For the Cs, it was the beginning of the dawn. For the Ls, it was the beginning of our slow decline.

    I see AD posted a news story from SF about these two guys who want to reinvent liberalism. Not a very informative article, IMO, but maybe that's what has to happen.

    Maybe unions have to reinvent themselves and move from being workplace-centered to being class or economic interest-centered groups of people.

    You could say the teabaggers are a rough proto-type of that, but badly organized and really just conservatism straight, no chaser. Nothing new or reinvented just an unadulterated version of the old.

    I think some of our discussion has been couched in terms of: Obama didn't fight. Obama sold out. Obama is Republican Lite. And that is one way to look at it.

    But maybe it's not a question--or just a question--of fighting, but of reinventing the liberal view so it appeals in new ways and isn't vulnerable in the old ways.

    Reagan was able to reach down and speak to and "steal" a core Democratic constituency in a way that baffled, befuddled, and stymied Democratic leaders. In response, Democrats tried to move to the center, tried to get tough on defense, and tried all kinds of what I'd call cosmetic changes to mimic Reagan, but always read as phony.

    (You know, one of the things that's amazed is how the Republicans can run these hair balls and not simply get laughed out of court. Steven King, Peter King, Louis Gohmert, Bachmann, Palin and many, many, many others. I think it's because they've tapped into this bedrock of principle. They really are still dining out on Reagan's coattails.)

    At a tactical level, Clinton baffled and befuddled his opponents in a similar way. Problem was, he didn't reach down to principles; it was all about tactics which left him and his ilk in an ideologically ambiguous position. He knew how to win and make incremental gains, but as Obama pointed out in the campaign, he wasn't transformative the way Reagan was.

    Nonethless, Clinton put points on the board and so has Obama. Until progressives really figure out how to win, not only win elections, but get things done AFTER they've won the election. IOW, get massive groups of people on their side and maybe, even, win back Reagan Democrats, then we are stuck with tactical advances and will never reach Quinn's dream of seven consecutive presidential wins.

    So maybe the way to begin is to let the old edifice simply fail...and start over. But I think we have to be prepared for it to take the next 20 or so years, depending on how things shake out.

    I'm not sure I'm willing to simply let the lunatics have the run of the House, Senate, and WH (not to mention the SC) while we get our shit together. We have to keep winning elections WHILE we get our shit together.

     

     

     


    Here's a comment I've stolen from a thread at TPM on the Net Roots conference. I think it's a pretty good beginning strategy:

    "My rule of thumb is to support Green Party and progressive candidates at the local level, where I know my vote and activism will have the most effect, and the further up the chain of Government, the more willing I am to fully support a candidate I don't agree with 100%."

    This makes sense to me, even if it isn't a complete strategy. These local progressive candidates then need to move up the ladder, building their base of support from the ground up, until they reach a critical mass. It may be possible to leapfrog some steps, particularly as momentum builds.

    But what I like about this is that ALL people in a given locale get to the know the person, what he or she stands for, what he has accomplished for them, and a circle of trust builds that transcends label, but doesn't side step labels. "Hey, if this is what a socialist does, I'm all for socialism!"

    But it takes WORK. Especially if you're building a popular movement and not one funded from the top by entrenched interests.

    Hey, whatever happened to Libertine?


    Whoa, Nellie; there are lot of different thoughts woven together here, Peter.  Might have to comment on them piece-meal in between garden chores. ;o)

    Some of us have been pretty conflicted whether or not we can hope to adequately reform the Democratic Party from the inside, and yes, I understand the cries to do it from the local level up; some of us have been doing that all are lives, or trying to.  And failing, for the most part.  I can't tell you how many candidates I worked for body and soul and bucks, then when they got in office became people I barely recognized.  Matt Stoller did a good piece I blogged about: Democrats are Elites, too, or something close.  I even started trying to think about how rubbing elbows in Washington seemed to gin up those elected to Congress, especially Senators, to lust for more power and money and influence, plus potential gigs through the revolving door later on.  Never did, seems almost too self-evident today, but... 

    (By the by, fucking Ben Nighthorse Campbell is the most illuminating example of that; he never heard of us who got him elected once he hit Denver, and forget when he hit DeeCee.  Asshole.  Declined to run when he was the target of a beginning corruption investigation, and his punishment was getting a permanent store for his Indian jewelry at the new Native American museum on the mall or wherever.  Thanks, Ben, for your service.  But we got our wasteful, unnecessary 345 KV power line through our mountains anyway.) 

    Anyway, just lately the folks who see that as a long shot, and far too slow for the myriad crises we face have convinced me that whatever form it takes, there will have to be an anti-oligarch force uniting to push back, and yep, labor SAYS it needs to be more about families and economic justice for all; I hope Trumka, for instance, ain't just blowin' smoke. 

    That said, of course, every person who wants to be of service should run, from school board thru city government, on up.  But boy, howdy, things in a year may just look waaaay dofferent tan they do today, and there may be forces and leaders emerging from movements we just don't see right now, and each person will have to vote either their conscience, or their pragmatism, or both.

    I just don't see many Progressive ideals in place, save for some social ones, and as Cho points out, if it weren't for wealthy Dems being in accord with some of them,...they wouldn't be likely happening.

    So what's gonna be our tipping point; our Kefiyah moment?  Or will we just waste away as a nation by attrition?  Damn, I hope not; and that's what I'm fighting for.  I have two grandbabbies who just turn two this summer, and a few more older ones.  And I abhor the image of life for them if we keep on this present trajectory.

    Loved the 'Don't believe anything I said", by the way.  ;o)  Shoot; babbling stardust; even boring myself now, LOL!

    p.s. Some of the Elitist crap makes me believe that Reps should get one three-year term, Senators a single four-year term.  Or something.

     


    Oh, and I forgot to remind you about Reagan's cynical use of the Christianist movement; that still reverberates and weaves through the Republican right wing, in word, if not in deed, which is nucking fits, as they never got one policy piece outta the man!  My brother-in-law practically still prays to the man. My stars.  ;o)


    There is a certain irony in the author of a comment such as this projecting melodrama on others. Even in facing loss you guys pretend like it is somehow your call ... as if by some hidden power you are going to allow independents to throw Obama out of office just to teach the liberals a lesson. ROTFLMAO. Good luck trying to make us vote for that crapheel if we decide not to.

    Your words solidify what a mistake giving Obama another four years would be. So, either liberals subjugate themselves and fall in line or you guys will nuke the party until they do, huh? Just like you are willing to sit by and nuke America's working class rather than support the DFH faction to a single policy win.

    It sure isn't the liberal's fault our president sucks. And it sure isn't the rest of our fault that Democrats (now a word that specifically excludes liberals, apparently) seem to view "winning" as empowering the president to kick liberal ass as part of an internal meta-struggle regardless what horribly negative outcomes that produces for Americans just trying to get by who don't give a damn about deeply-rooted partisan psychoses.

    Sadly, Obama is proving to be a total turd. But he sure does pump your bizarre Democratic superiority complex to the point loyalists are doing pretty much the same thing teabaggers were supposed to do in the GOP. Liberals aren't even considered Democrats anymore unless they shut the hell up and pretend to support republican policy recycled from the 80s and 90s (that really did suck the first time around, BTW).

    So, if liberals are unwelcome in the Democratic party unless they fall in line (how fucking democratic) ... who, exactly, is left? Geithner and Patraeus? More important, without liberals, what policies do Democrats have to offer that would lead normal free-thinking Americans to vote for them?

    As best I can tell, centrists don't actually articulate real policy solutions during an election campaign - they lie their asses off then call everyone stupid for believing their election promises as they twist into pretzels to rake in cash. Do you envision trying to get America to buy the idea Democrats still stand for their traditionally liberal objectives ... but would simply prefer to achieve them without the involvement or support of liberals or liberal policy?

    I know you guys have yourselves convinced we're morons out here ... but come on.


    "Your words solidify what a mistake giving Obama another four years would be. So, either liberals subjugate themselves and fall in line or you guys will nuke the party until they do, huh?"

    I'm not the one running around saying I'm going to abandon the Democrats.  That would be your cohort.

    I swear to God, it's like the Bush II presidency never happened with you people.  In case you haven't noticed, Every Single Fucking Thing you idiots lambaste Obama for is directly related to the catastrophe that was his predecessor.

    It's clear to anyone with two good eyes and a functioning brain that the status quo is improving under Obama if you have a progressive politics.  Yet, because things haven't improved as much as anyone would like, you all want to put us back on the path we were on under Bush.  It's the most baffling idiocy I've ever seen, coming from people who do seem to possess a modicum of intelligence. 


    It's clear to anyone with two good eyes and a functioning brain that the status quo is improving under Obama if you have a progressive politics.

    I'd like to see your evidence for this.

    - Labor market conditions have been stagnant for two years as defined by the employment population ratio,

    - labor's share of income is falling in relative terms,

    - in absolute terms (non-supervisory and production) worker wages are still falling,

    - house-prices are still falling,

    - the social safety net (food aid, medicaid, medicare, social security, health care coverage) is getting worse.

    The improvement lies in corporate profits and share prices. I.e. all the benefits of the meager growth numbers are benefits for the investor class. Which is certainly an improvement of sorts, but not necessarily so if you have a progressive politics.

    You might make a case for saying, "yes, it's getting worse, but it could be getting even worser with Republicans". But that's a different argument.


    In addition to assessments of past performance, what is needed to respond to circumstances right now and going forward?  Are there indications that this Administration has good short-term plans they will push for, ones that are likely to be adequate or at least helpful in avoiding further harm?  There were positive progressive things done in the first two years.  But that's all in the past.  Is the White House capable of adjusting to current economic dynamics?  Will it let GOP control of the House serve as an excuse for not proposing and fighting for measures it believes are necessary for the economy right now?  

    Genghis, in his thread on the GOP debate, makes an excellent point that progressives cannot use funding disadvantages as an excuse for failing to organize to take power and get progressive things done.  I completely agree with him on that.

    I also think it's true that excuse-making is not the sole property of any one group of actors in this drama.  This White House has allowed the public discussion on economic policy to, for the time being at least, entirely trap it by cutting off the most important option that needs to be on the table now, which is stimulus.  They'll say never has a law that did so much to avert further disaster been so trashed and dissed as the first stimulus bill.  And they may be right.  But that doesn't obviate the need to continue to make the case for it if and when you think it is necessary. To decline to do that, on account of the inconvenience of reversing course again, is likewise excuse-making.

    Right now what we have in the discussion on the economy is entirely an austerity narrative.  And the White House bears significant responsibility for not only buying into that but helping establish it.  

    If you're the Obama campaign and you know, as you should, that a double-dip recession going into your re-election year is a real possibility, wouldn't you make it your business not to box yourself into an austerity-only economic policy agenda that will only make the economy worse? The White House has done just that.  

    They'll say the November elections dictated that.  I say--as was the implication of a blog I wrote at the time of last fall's election, that that's weak. And just as much an excuse as grassroots progressives asserting nothing can change because of funding disadvantages (I'm not sure if any individuals in particular, at dag or elsewhere, have been accused of doing the latter.  stardust and DanK are both very active in promoting progressive policies, whatever some here think of their announced voting and party registration plans.)  Republicans define election meanings however they want to, and often get away with it no matter how weak the evidence for their case. 

    If you're the WH and you think you need to reverse course again on economic policy on account of changed circumstances, because the economy is not recovering as you'd hoped it would, then that is what you have to do.  First and foremost for policy reasons--for the sake of the country. But also, in the White House's case, for what are shaping up to be very good political survival reasons.  

    Unless they've got another idea.


    They also have to counter the argument that the stimulus didn't work so why do more of what didn't work ESPECIALLY as it deepens the debt.

    The stimulus had kept unemployment to 8%, then the austerity argument would never have taken hold. Obama could make the case, relatively easily, that he needed more to do more.


    You're assuming Obama wanted or wants more in stimulus. Yet all the pro-stimulus economists have left the administration - Goolsbee, Summers, Romer - and been replaced by deficit hawks - Sperling, Immelt, Daley. Geithner was apparently from the start against any stimulus apart from the bare minimum to stave off Armageddon. Of course, the main sign that they don't want more stimulus is that they still have 50 billion in TARP funds burning a hole in their pockets. It was supposed to go to help homeowners, but remains unspent.

    I.e. it doesn't matter how easy or hard it is to make the pro-stimulus argument. Obama doesn't want to make it. Which of course makes it harder to make for everyone else...


    I'm not assuming any such thing.  In fact, the evidence looks to be to the contrary. What I'm saying is this: would he rather try to win re-election with this, or an even worse, economy, saying what he's been saying about when it will get better, how soon, talking about a few things he wants to highlight that he's doing?  Or would he rather change course, explain to the public frankly that the initial stimulus did a great deal to avert even worse unemployment and that he and his top advisors believed at the time that it would be enough to get the economy back on course.  But that in hindsight the stimulus was not enough to get us over the hump and the choice facing us now is whether to finish the job or allow the current situation to continue without additional intervention that, it is now apparent, is urgently needed.  

    It's his choice.  He can continue in the current austerity direction, which is the wrong direction on policy and also happens to be disastrous for him politically.  Or he can change course, as the circumstances now clearly dictate.


    Oopsie, Dreamer; Cho's comment there was to Peter Schwartz, not you.


    Oops.  My bad.


    Yes Dreamer, I agree with all that. My point was directed at Peter.


    Absolutely.  Because we all know that is going to be the argument against such a change in course.  The White House and its supporters are going to have to try to teach the public a lesson from Economics 101. Which is a huge challenge, especially when so much false conventional "wisdom" is out there about the stimulus (some people clearly don't even distinguish it from TARP, another matter altogether).  But what is the alternative at this point?  


    I'll try to respond to AD and Cho here, since the thread went out of order.

    If I had to guess, and I guess we're left guessing...

    I'd say Obama believes in stimulus and would, in fact, like more stimulus, but is also responding to what he thinks the message of 2010 is. I don't know enough about the 50 billion to comment.

    His group of advisors told him the stimulus package was the "right size" and would keep unemployment at 8% and that was pretty widely "advertised." It didn't, and the headwinds of 2010 make it risky (in his mind) to go out on that branch again.

    It's possible he had only one bite at the stimulus apple and he took it. (He got some more in December, I believe, but still.) He may not have a chance at a stimulus mulligan.

    That said, even mightier headwinds--a bad economy and the coming election--may force him to change course or go down with the ship. He can't force another stimulus unless he can hold hostage something the Republicans want badly.

    But he might be able to play good defense against an opponent who has the advantage of being the outsider ...but who has the disadvantage of having no ideas of his own on what to do.

    I'm assuming it will be Romney at this point, and a lot of people will say that "Romney is a businessman, so he has a better shot at knowing how to fix the economy." So that will also be a problem for Obama.

    Of course, while all of this plays out, people are suffering...

     


    Further to Cho, it's possible all the pro-stimulus guys left because their package didn't take the country far enough. This is not an objective indictment of "stimulus," but just to say that what THIS team had on offer turned out to be insufficient, factually and politically.


    Well, there's also always a certain amount of churn with ecnomic staff. But given what has come out lately, it looks like there was a lot of frustration on the part of at least Goolsbee and Romer regarding the effective push-back coming from Geithner on stimulus. I.e. the constraints were internal to the administration, they weren't due to Republican objections.

    Beyond that, all the current advisors are against further stimulus, all the former advisors favor more. Make of it what you will...


    Peter and Cho: Thanks for your replies.  Yes, a number of us have had ongoing discussion about Obama's choice of economic advisors, at tpmcafe and some here as well.  Some were saying he should never brought Summers in as his top person.  Nor Geithner as his Treasury Secretary.  

    My view was and is that it's good to have the point of view those folks represent (not saying they are identical, I'm sure they are not on all particulars), but that that was a dangerously narrow range of views to have repesented on economic policy by one's top advisors.  Goolsbee had long ago been cut out of his important role from the campaign.  Romer fought a good fight, just how good we don't know and may not know as she is classy and has not spilled the beans about what transpired behind closed doors in public comments to my knowledge, or a memoir.  There were many talented, professionally respected people he could have brought on to round out his team, people who were, unlike Summers, prescient about the housing bubble and about some of the dangers that dereg had created in the financial sector that left the economy vulnerable.

    In the end the President is responsible for his own decisions about who he brings in to be part of his team and who he listens to in the end.  The buck stops with him.

    That's now all in the past.

    The question is what he does going forward.  First, does he agree that more stimulus is essential now to avoid a worsening of the employment situation?

    If not, then what other measures does he believe can, at a minimum, keep the jobs situation from getting even worse?  If there is some good reason to think what he is doing now will work I've not come across what seems like a plausible argument, one that goes beyond wishful thinking, for thinking that.

    If he does believe more stimulus is now necessary, then it comes down to a choice for him.

    Does he, with his re-election bid underway, take responsibility for, in retrospect, lowballing the stimulus (which he could cast in the best possible light by portraying it as a way to reduce the amount of money the government had to borrow to get the economy out of recession to the minimum necessary), and press Congress for a change of course, explaining why to the public and asking the public for its support of him (and a supportive Congress if, as expected, this one will not give him what he asks for)?

    Or does he instead listen to those who say, no, don't do it, politically it's a mistake because it makes it (easier?) to portray him as having mishandled the economy, on account of acknowledging previous error?

    That's his choice.  Neither is an enviable option in the least.  

    If he explains the need for, and presses for, more stimulus, he at least can give voters a referendum going forward not only for his re-election but for the Congressional elections as well. So that if he is re-elected and he gets majorities in both houses of Congress who will support him, he truly would have a mandate to do more stimulus.  There would also be knowledgeable and respected economists who have been right about some important things who would respect him for choosing to do the right thing for the economy and for the country, at great political risk to himself and against conventional wisdom.  

    If he opts to stay his present course--no evidence I know of suggests he will do otherwise or is considering doing so--then he is betting his re-election on some combination of voters forgiving him this economy, perhaps charitably concluding he couldn't have done more or not worrying themselves overly about their fellow citizens who are unemployed, and luck in who he draws as his opponent and how much success that opponent has in hanging this economy around his neck and how strong a campaign they are able to run generally.

    Perhaps not since Lyndon Johnson's decision to escalate rather than draw down in Vietnam has a President running for re-election faced such an agonizing decision.  It would take an extremely strong person to decide to change course now.  It would fly against the conventional wisdom offered by political pundits and commentators.  There are huge risks either way he goes on this.


    not worrying themselves overly about their fellow citizens who are unemployed

    Cho made the point somewhere, maybe above, that a Romney could do a Nixon-Goes-To-China and order up a big stimulus and rationalize it by saying that Obama never targeted his stimulus, but "I will." However, if you care about the unemployed, I'm not sure it's wise to bet on the current crop of Republicans who seem to believe only in lower taxes and less regulation.

    That said, Romney seems to be conspicuously sticking to his previous moderate record. I just read that he didn't sign the pro-life pledge. He may be counting on a weak and underfunded primary field to get through the primaries and then being able to tack to the center and lean on his business credentials for the general.


    Don't know if or where I might have said that. I don't necessarily think Romney will RUN on a stimulus. He does seem, unlike Obama, to understand the election is about jobs. And he just might understand economics a bit better than Obama - Wall Street understands how stimulus works, they just don't like it. Romney, as president, will be incentivized to like it. So I don't quite know how to play these percentages. Just worth considering.

    Also, Republicans love deficit spending when they're in power. While there is no way a Democratic congress would let a Republican get away with these kinds of cuts in welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. (there's a serious stimulative effect to protecting retirement insurance)


    I think Goolsbee and Romer both publicly defended the size and character of the stimulus.

    It's not like they quit in protest.


    It's not like they quit in protest.

    Well, they're hardly diplomatic about it.


    That's part of the expectation of the job of people to work in those positions and are put in front of the media or allowed to talk on the record to the media--to defend the President's policies agressively, regardless of whether they have private disagreements or not (those get saved for the memoirs, whether they were actually voiced at the time or not).  So the fact of their defending what was done doesn't tell us anything about what they argued for, or not, in private, and what they really thought about the decision that was made.

    And very few senior government officials resign in protest--it's been that way for awhile.  Peter Edelman did so when Clinton signed the welfare reform bill.  


    I accept what you say, but that does put them in a tight spot when they have to explain why they defended it, not just cursorily, but definitively with charts and graphs and so on.

    They have to say either they were a good soldier who disagreed inside but was willing to mislead the press and the public for the boss...or they've changed their minds since.

    As perhaps Obama has!


    Um, who is throwing liberals out of the Democratic party?

    It seems to me, liberals are the ones threatening to leave or sit it out because the party or Obama isn't liberal enough. Remember Dan's "Democratic Walk Out" in which he said pretty much that?

    If I understand you correctly about the teabaggers, at least they gave the Republicans a victory after they were flat on their backs and had lost ALL credibility.

    I see that progressives made an important contribution to Obama's win, but it doesn't seem to me they played a similarly decisive role, nor were Democrats in equally bad shape.

    You have to give MASSIVE credit to Obama himself and his organization for the win. Boehner didn't do anything to become Speaker. Ryan isn't doing his fellows any favors. Romney's no political genius.

    Obama gave liberals a big win as much as, if not more than liberals gave Obama the big win.


    Dude, they are SO gonna go through your garbage now.


    The President is trying to raise money from Wall Street because the system is rigged to require it.  Change the system, if you can, and the Supreme Court thinks it does not violate the First Amendment.  This is the problem.  Not President Obama.  The Republicans love that you are confused.  That's the only way they can win.


    Peter, Dreamer...anyone who was speaking about the need for labor to expand it's stated interests and actions:  Here is an FDL book salon with Joe Burns about his book  Reviving the Strike: Joe Burns’ Cure for What Ails the Labor Movement.

    Moderator: 

    "From 1930 to 1980, unions created ever improving lives for millions of workers, improving our economy and our politics in the process. And they did it by striking. They would have found the idea of unions that did not strike unimaginable. Congress and the courts have stripped away unions’ power to effectively strike, but so has corporatist ideology. When the anti-union assault intensified in the 1980s, and ever since, the labor movement has responded in a completely new and completely hopeless manner. Rather than halting production, unions set up picket lines that merely watched scabs replace union workers. And when unions are able to negotiate contracts, they no longer seek to establish standardized wages for a whole industry, but negotiate a variety of standards even at a single corporation.

    To survive and succeed, Burns argues, unions must use strikes to halt production and impose their demands; and those demands must be industry-wide. Unions must use secondary or solidarity strikes and boycotts in support of other striking workers. A solidarity boycott is far more effective than the extremely difficult consumer boycotts that well-meaning atomized citizens are always dreaming about. Compelling a store to stop selling a particular product is far easier than persuading consumers to not buy that product.

    The central tool that must be revived is the strike that halts production and imposes a cost on an employer. A strike is not a public relations stunt, but a tool for shifting power from a few people to a great many. The era of the death of labor, the era we have been living in, is the era of the scab or replacement worker. Scabs were uncommon in the 1950s, spotted here and there in the 1960s and 1970s, and widespread from the 1980s forward."

    Burn doesn't think EFCA would help without strikes as a big tool.


    Comprende -- No Mas Immigre

    A strike means nothing anymore, unless you can stop the imports of products or workers from another source.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Boeing is allowed, to go to the Slave Right to Work States.

    It’ll be the New Dred Scott case.  

    Go ahead and strike, shut down production in Washington State. 

    Corporations will just go where labor can't affect their profits, even if it means offshoring.

    Screw labor demands.

    Then when these Right to Work   SLAVE States, give these companies Tax breaks to boot and the Non- Union employees can barely make a livable wage, they can go to the Emergency rooms for their medical care,

    THE SOUTH WILL RISE........ WILL BECOME THE SOUTH HAS RISEN

    Slavery will then become Nation Wide.   

    Get rid of these Right to Work States, it's the New Slavery.

    Where will these newly located corporations find willing workers, hmm?  

    I know where they’re looking to find a few million replacement workers, I think they’re counting on Obama and the Democrats to give them what they want, so they don’t have to negotiate with labor at all; if American workers should strike or make demands.

    Comprende


    Thanks--I saw that and picked up a copy.  Haven't gotten to it yet so your link will help me get some of what he's saying quickly.


    I did the Cliff's Notes version with the salon; my eyes read a screen now better than dead tree pulp.  ;o)


    Thanks for this and perhaps he goes into this elsewhere, but...

    I don't think unions can reassert their power without massively increasing their numbers.

    That's what he says when he talks about "shifting power from the few to the great many."

    That's why I thought trying to expand unions beyond the workplace was an interesting idea.

    But I don't disagree that a strike is the "persuader."


    Exactly what the unions have been doing in Wisconsin.   ;o)  Far too many people had been taking the benefits unions had won for granted and needed to be educated.  ;o)

    Now young workers there (and elsewhere) are far more apt to join AND view unions as positives for the nation.