The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Danny Cardwell's picture

    Hating The Game: Did Michael Vick Sellout?

    By Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 11:27am | Sports

    "First thing we’ve got to get Colin to do is cut his hair."

     

    Michael Vick offered Colin Kaepernick some unsolicited advice as a guest on Fox Sports 1’s “Speak For Yourself”. After listening to him say, “I really think the stand that he took has nothing to do with him not having a job playing in the National Football League right now.” I was disappointed. Michael Vick was the previous owner of the shoes Colin now fills. There will be over 100 quarterbacks competing for jobs before rosters are cut and Vick doesn't think Kaepernick is better than half of them? Does he really believe 32 head coaches, 32 general managers, and 32 owners simultaneously came to the conclusion he couldn't play anymore?

     

    Vick's words opened him up to ridicule from some of his most loyal supporters in the black community, but calling Michael Vick a sellout does nothing to address the root of Colin's problem. The NFL is ran by people who have very little, if any, vested interest in the issues he was protesting. In the NFL, the only Black Lives that Matter are the ones that are profitable. If you can run a 4.3 40-yard dash and keep your mouth shut you can do almost anything and maintain employment. 

     

    "Listen, I’m not up here to try to be politically correct. Even if he puts cornrows in there. I don’t think he should represent himself in that way (wearing the Afro). Just the hairstyle. Just go clean-cut. You know, why not? You're already dealing with a lot.

    The NFL is a meritocracy as long as you don't hurt the bottom line. Kaepernick would have been better off had he beaten up a pregnant white woman. Rapist and domestic abusers are welcomed back to the NFL because their crimes don't cost the league revenue or challenge its authority. When a player, irrespective of race, beats a woman, she's the victim. Colin's protest caused a public outcry that victimized the league. NFL owners don't suffer losses well and aren't willing to face economic backlash for signing an unrepentant Kaepernick. No one knows this better than Michael Vick.

     

    ​Michael Vick had to kiss the proverbial ring to get his second chance. I'm not sure Kaepernick is willing to (publicly) do the same; his circumstances are a lot different than Vick's were. Vick was hemorrhaging money due to the termination of his endorsement deals and his Atlanta Falcons contract. When Vick filed for bankruptcy protection he owed his creditors 18 million dollars. Kaepernick, who hasn't made as much money as Vick did before his troubles, is in far better financial shape. Vick had no choice but to acquiesce. He was never going to come through his bankruptcy and get his life back together without the NFL. 

     

    “I just think perception and image is everything. This is not the Colin Kaepernick that we've known since he entered the National Football League. I’m just going off my personal experiences. Listen, I love the guy to death. But I want him to also succeed on and off the field. This has to be a start for him."


    Michael Vick gave Colin Kaepernick the kind of practical advice any public relations expert or image consultant would give him, but he did it in the company of a toxic sports personality. Jason Whitlock is less popular in the black community than Diabetes. Every few weeks he gives #BlackTwitter a reason to hate him. Vick's statements, if made to someone whose commitment to the black community is unquestionable, wouldn't have been so controversial. Vick never condemned Kaepernick for his protest. He acknowledged the reason for his protest and thanked him for doing it. Vick's advice, however pragmatic, calls for Colin's Submission. If Colin crawls back and begs for forgiveness he could make a lot of money, but that money will cost him his integrity. 

     

    It's easy to attack Michael Vick's​ words from the comfort of a smartphone or tablet. Michael Vick was in debt, had a family to provide for, and had millions of dollars on the line. He gave the right answer for someone in his situation. If Colin wants to wear another NFL jersey he probably knows he has to “play the game”. This is unpopular, it's unfair, but it's the reality in the NFL. A man who kneeled to take a stand might have to bow to take a snap. This isn't right. He is being punished. We can hate the player, but we should probably hate the game that asks brothers to scratch when it doesn't itch.

    Topics: 
    Sports

    Comments

    Shaun King has a viewpoint similar to yours. In order to get back into the NFL, Kaepernick has to be willing to play the game. The problem is that by playing the NFL game, Kaepernick would lose himself.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/king-mike-vick-colin-kaeperni...


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 11:49am

    Must be awful to have to change your hair style to avoid persecution. Guys, get over it. There are lots of #OWS & #BLM protesters who paid dearly. Few are multimillionaires to cover there losses. Corporations are fickle and ornery and screw you in a moment? Welcome to news at 11, where dog bites man. How many women have lost their job because they wouldn't sleep with the boss?  How many guys have lost their job because they wouldn't fake results or abandon their families? Kaepernick can trade his fame and reputation for something better, which Steven Biko can't. So he can't play football - nor get brain injury like half the NFL players. I thought what Kaeparnick did was great, and what the sport did was awful. But I watched Rollerball way back in 1972 - "no player is bigger than the game, Jonathan". Indeed. I don't particularly care that he lost his job - that was largely unavoidable. I care that they flipped his act to be "against the troops" and somehow unpatriotic because what, the troops depend on football? Is it only racism we're worried about? Our whole system is screwed - quite splitting hairs on why it's this or that. Remember when banks were failing, but they managed to screw granny - black or white - repossessing her home, while they made sure all these ratfuckers on the trading floors kept their bonuses? oh my, where would the traders go, oh my oh my - too connected to fail, too connected to lose their bonuses for keeping thieving toxic-asset-selling institutions alive. Well, when some dude gets a bonus for poisoning the elementary school cafeteria or shooting up a theater, cheered by the rank-and-file and the elites, it'll all be even, lamb lies down with the lion, rich with the poor, all equal in God's eyes. We celebrate the atrocities and short-change benevolence.

    Pick your battles - outrage is making us go blinkered. Kaepernick is great as a person, but it's only a fucking game. Ali gave it up, they tried to destroy him, but it made him bigger. Let's see what Kaepernick does - I think you're selling him short.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 2:19pm

    "Guys, get over it."

    (PERACLES) I'm the exact same man you are. You are free to write about what's important to you, and I will read or not read the product you put out. I will not get over racism. I've been poor and black; I've been middle-class ​and black: the only difference money has made in my life is the fact I can better provide for my family. It has not insulated me from systemic racism. I live less than 100 miles from Charlottesville. They had the notable Klan rally, but the Confederacy of the Blue Ridge Mountains is a hotbed of racial animosity. I know people who've been victims of police brutality, I was in Charlottesville when VA ABC officers beat up Martese Johnson. I spent my anniversary in Baltimore two days before the riots with clergy trying to calm the waters. I'm an associate pastor of a 98 year old church that has been victimized with graffiti and threats of arson. I will not get over a country so poisoned by white supremacy that it permeates every thread of our life. It's only a game? Was only a seat on the bus? Was it only a seat at the lunch counter? I picked my battle over 25 years ago. I understand that issues related to race can cause "fatigue" in progressives isolated from the struggles people of color face, but I don't get to just pick my battle. I've written about corruption in government, I've written about shoddy business dealings, but none of those things put me in immediate danger. None of those things have ever gotten my application thrown in the trash, or denied a loan with a 757 credit score.

     

    I think you are brilliant, your work speaks for itself. If, I were as talented as you I probably wouldn't be working 3 jobs 70 hours a week, but please don't think for one minute I'm​ seeking approval or acceptance. Dagblog has opened doors for me. If it weren't for white liberals in cyberspace validating me the white pseudo-liberals in this area wouldn't have given me access to some of the platforms I have. My work with Faithfully Magazine and ThyBlackMan are an extension of this platform. I have a career in radio because of my  blog. I share the content I provide for black publications here because those sites are revenue generating outlets, and there are people here who read my work and wondered why I haven't been as active. I have no problem keeping the black stuff where it belongs.

    I understand all of us have different interests. I could catfish this site and get 10,000 clicks with another tired Bernie v. Hillary post. I wish Russia was my biggest problem, but it's not. The Trump administration is a flaming outhouse, large corporations are still crapping on people, and #bluelivesmatter.

    I won't stop advocating for my people, because I am a beneficiary of someone else's advocacy and action.

     

    PEACE!


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 8:37pm

    Colin Kaepernick: Clinton and Trump are 'proven liars'

    Get over Colin Kaerpernick, and the NFL.

    Not racism. Never get over that. Vote.

    While Colin was grandstanding and helping Trump get elected, LeBron James and JR Smith were campaigning with Hillary, because they, unlike Colin,  are fully aware that both sides are not the same, ESPECIALLY on racism.


    by NCD on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 8:59pm

    The 66%of uneducated white women who voted for Trump did so because of Kaepernick? Interesting theory! I'll be covering the VA Gubernatorial debate sponsored by the Virginia Bar Association. My wife is the election chief in the Cedar Creek district. I'll go out on a limb and say I've probably registered more voters than 99.9% of the people who blog here.

     

    I knew I could get someone to invoke the name of Hillary Clinton. Give it a minute and the usual suspects will be blaming black voters in the south for Bernie not winning.

     

    I love you guys!


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:17pm

    NCD wasn't blaming "black voters" - he was noting the stupid shit coming out of Kaepernick's mouth even as his noble protest was taking place. I'm more forgiving, but when he made himself a spokesperson, his statements and actions will be critiqued. Comes with the job.

    David Chappelle also stepped into it before the election, the Hillary as bad as Trump thing, even as most blacks were supporting Hillary, or better said, the fact that she was much more positively tuned into values and policies that affect them. Black publications had no reluctance in criticizing him. But in any case, Kaepernick being right and brave over one important issue doesn't mean his career is the same as his stance.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:25pm

    Congrats on tbe work.

    Yet why vote when charismatic celebrities and the entire corporate media says both sides are the same, both always at fault etc?

    Apathy is the result.

    The GOP reduces apathy with 24/7 x 30 years of lies, hate, racism, fear and anger.

    As I have pointed out several hundred times already, one of the most toxic side effects of the Big Lie of Both Sides Do It is that, thanks to years of relentless repetition by the Beltway media, every single wingnut in Christendom has been trained to automatically pull out "But Both Sides Do It" as their all purpose, get-out-of-accountability-free alibi every single time another batshit Conservative lie or conspiracy theory blows up in their face:

    Driftglass 


    by NCD on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:58pm

    You're making Kaepernick's football career a substitute referendum for racism in America? 

    See what happens when you step into American sports? There are no winners.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:12pm

    "We're happy that Martin Luther King has found a new parish, and happy to report the march on Tuscaloosa will be called off with lawyers from both sides agreeing on contract terms."

    See how dumb this sounds mixing one person's career advancement in with Civil Rights?


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:20pm

    Not a substitute an extension. 


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:16pm

    It's not racism and it's not the NFL.  It's the whole entertainment industry. The Dixie Chicks career was nearly ended when Natalie Maines said she was embarrassed Bush was from Texas. That seems to me to be much less offensive to most people than kneeling during the national anthem. But it wasn't sexism or misogyny that nearly destroyed her career. If some white football player had decided to kneel during the national anthem to protest the Iraq war the same thing would have happened to him.

    If you're in the entertainment industry you're essentially saying, pay  to watch me do stuff, whether it's pay to watch me throw a football or pay to watch me sing or pay to watch me pretend to be someone. If you do something that offends enough people, like kneeling during the national anthem or saying you're embarrassed by the president during a war, people are going to say I'm not going to pay you to do that. It's as simple as that. It's not racism or sexism.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:37pm

    Black people and black media were outspoken about the disaster that was Donald Trump. Black voters are aware that Trump hired white supremacists like Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions. Ben Carson went from an icon in black households to being considered a punch line. Carson's face replaced the old black guy on the front of Uncle Ben's Rice. For all of its faults, Black Lives Matter is making efforts to deal with police abuse. Black women objected to being left out of the Women's March and leadership positions in the DNC. Blacks were out protesting cuts to health care. Blacks are woke. Blacks don't need to get permission regarding what they are allowed to protest.

    The NFL has kept a racist like Tony Incognito in its ranks, but rejects Kaepernick, it does not make sense.Danny is correct in pointing out the obvious. 


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 9:44pm

    It's not what he was protesting. It's how he decided to protest. It's like burning an American flag. Why it was burned is irrelevant. All most people care about is that someone burned an American flag. What Kaepernick was protesting is irrelevant to most people. All that matters to a significant segment of Americans is that someone kneeled during the national anthem.  I thought his protest was stupid for the same reason I think flag burning is stupid. The reason for the protest becomes lost to most people because the action is so offensive to most people. People have a legal right to protest in ways that offend people. But it's sometimes counter productive for both the movement and for them personally. This outcome not only makes perfect sense it was entirely predictable. Kaepernick losing his job was the most likely outcome when he decided to kneel during the national anthem.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:13pm

    Kaepernick' s jersey was the 17th biggest seller in May 2017. The jersey outsold Cam Newton and Von Miller

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin-kaepernicks-49ers-jersey-is-the-...


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:27pm

    Wow! I'm sure that more than made up for the loss of revenue from declining tv ratings. Help me out here since you find t-shirt sales to be so important. What percentage of NFL revenue comes from t-shirt sales compared to tv advertising?


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:49pm

    Wow! Kaepernick is the only thing that could have caused a decrease in NFL rating on television. The election, streaming, and cord cutting played no role at all.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/nfl-ratings-just-fe...


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:57pm

    Kaepernick is the only thing that could have caused a decrease in NFL rating on television.

    Typical dumb ass response from you. I never said any such thing. Try just once to respond to what people post instead of making up strawmen to argue with.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 11:02pm

    I pointed out that popularity of Kaepernick's jersey. You countered with the comment that that the NFL revenue fell. Since Kaepernick was the subject of the discussion, you connected Kaepernick to the loss of NFL revenue. I called you on your nonsense, typically you become upset. 


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 8:49am

    Thanks for not losing the point of my post. The disconnect between allies in this group let's me know that there are some issues we will never agree on. Some of these responses could have come from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity.


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:33pm

    The NFL was forced to institute a rule that required interviewing blacks for coaching jobs. It is very clear that the political atmosphere of the NFL and NBA are very different.

    http://www.newsweek.com/nba-nfl-politics-support-trump-547808

    Kaepernick spoke out about police abuse. That protest took courage. I don't care what hair products he uses and I don't care about his feelings about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. He is being punished for his stance on police abuse. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning support Trump, something that bothers me more than Kaepernick's  opinion on the 2016 campaign.


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:47pm

    That can never be proven. I think he is being punished for kneeling during the national anthem. If he had kneeled to protest abortion the outcome would be the same. Not even the anti abortion crowd would support kneeling during the anthem to protest abortion. If he had made BLM his signature issue and dedicated each game to someone murdered by the police he'd likely still have a job. So long as he just talked about it and didn't kneel during the anthem.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:59pm

    Hannity and Carlson's shtick is to make up lies about liberals and then expect their guest to defend them. Who here is emulating that behavior? " Can someone help me understand how Colin Kaepernick is responsible for 30+ years of right wing media poisoning the well with the, "both sides do it" narrative?" You're the only one who said that. No one here believes it. It's nonsense you pulled out of your ass and attributed to those who disagree with you. That's an outrageous lie.

    "The 66%of uneducated white women who voted for Trump did so because of Kaepernick? Interesting theory!" Who's theory? No one but you said it. No one believes it. More stupid shit you pulled out of your own ass. So who here is using Hannity tactics?

    I expect strawman arguments from rmrd, obfuscation is his dagblog style, but I never expected it from you. Don't you think the people here are smart enough to see it's you who are making up these stupid lies? I guarantee you're losing the respect of many readers here. It's time for you to admit you got too emotionally invested to engage in rational dialog on this issue and to retract this crazy bullshit. If it's possible for you to admit that then it's possible that this thread you drove off the rails with this nonsense might return to a semblance of rational debate.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 5:24am

    I probably drove it off the rails by responding, but Vick suggesting Kaepernick cut his hair is where our sellout on racism goes? And yeah, you're right, they used the kneeling for the anthem as another "war against Christmas"-type tear jerker for America to bypass the more problematic issue about race. As Kahneman notes, we're programmed to substitute easier questions (and answers) for hard ones - we do it automatically, and everyone falls in line, because it's a lot less mental work in our overstressed lives.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 5:47am

    Can someone help me understand how Colin Kaepernick is responsible for 30+ years of right wing media poisoning the well with the, "both sides do it" narrative?

     

    When he said Trump and Clinton were proven liars, was he wrong for pointing out Clinton's lies or should he have pretended they didn't exist?

     

    How did he convince the 66% of uneducated white women, most of whom hate him, to vote for Trump?


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 10:38pm

    I'm sorry but I must have missed that comment. Can you point me to the comment where someone said, " Colin Kaepernick is responsible for 30+ years of right wing media poisoning the well with the, "both sides do it" narrative." Also who said Kaepernick convinced 66% of uneducated white women to vote for Trump? A cut and paste from the comment would be helpful, along with the name of the offending dagblogger. Thanks.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/20/2017 - 11:12pm

    He didn't "point out Clinton lies" -he didn't say anything intelligent at all or say what he thought she'd lied about, he just repeated decades-old right-wing funded bullshit. Only now this year's Russian-backed spambot version. Programming wakes up and says, "oh, I heard this somewhere, must be true, must repeat":

    "It was embarrassing to watch that these are our two candidates," Kaepernick told reporters Tuesday. "Both are proven liars and it almost seems like they're trying to debate who's less racist.

    "And at this point ... you have to pick the lesser of two evils. But in the end, it's still evil."

    Thanks, football throwing dude - woman who pushed ealthcare and electricity for poor blacks for decades and billions for Appalachian jobs and decried police killing blacks and pushed body cams, and she's just "less racist" but still "evil" and that's going to get the half of the population that supported Hillary on your side? And how much bullshit about blacks was spread this way and repeated unthinkingly over the centuries. As long as they keep the bullshit memes floating around, they cam still eke out their victories.

    If you think Hillary lied about something important, Danny, say what in particular, let's discuss. But if it's just "she kept an email server at home while Donald laundered money for the Russians and used their hackers", fuck it.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 1:19am

    A few points to get on the record.

     

    I brought up the 66% of uneducated white women who voted for Donald Trump because the comment was made that Colin Kaepernick was helping elect Donald Trump, as if his election doesn't rest squarely on the shoulders of white women. I know I'm committing blasphemy by pointing out the fact that white women chose the P_ssy Grabber over Clinton, but anyone who can look at the empirical data collected after the election and blame Colin Kaepernick without mentioning this fact is willfully denying what's right in front of them.

    This is from Ocean-Kat:

    Hannity and Carlson's shtick is to make up lies about liberals and then expect their guest to defend them. Who here is emulating that behavior? " Can someone help me understand how Colin Kaepernick is responsible for 30+ years of right wing media poisoning the well with the, "both sides do it" narrative?" You're the only one who said that. No one here believes it. It's nonsense you pulled out of your ass and attributed to those who disagree with you. That's an outrageous lie.

    "The 66%of uneducated white women who voted for Trump did so because of Kaepernick? Interesting theory!" Who's theory? No one but you said it. No one believes it. More stupid shit you pulled out of your own ass. So who here is using Hannity tactics?

    I expect strawman arguments from rmrd, obfuscation is his dagblog style, but I never expected it from you. Don't you think the people here are smart enough to see it's you who are making up these stupid lies? I guarantee you're losing the respect of many readers here. It's time for you to admit you got too emotionally invested to engage in rational dialog on this issue and to retract this crazy bullshit. If it's possible for you to admit that then it's possible that this thread you drove off the rails with this nonsense might return to a semblance of rational debate.

    The comment about the 30+ year argument of both sides do it was a response to someone bringing up this argument. It's still in the comments section if you want to look at it. 

    I'm not here for the respect or admiration. This might seem odd, but I don't center the approval of others in my life. I'm here to write about issues important to me and people of color. Diversity isn't just having a smiling black face. Some folks want the appearance of diversity without diverse viewpoints. Your use of profanity says more about you than any accusations you level at me says about me. How can I be using strawman argument when I'm responding to someone's actual argument? Read this thread again. 

     

    I've never said anyone needs to agree with me. Disagree. Call me ignorant. Ignore me. Do whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't apologize for being me.

     

     

     


    by Danny Cardwell on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 10:22am

    He does tend to question intelligence, doesn't he?"


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 10:33am

    #Facts


    by Danny Cardwell on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 10:52am

    NCD claimed that, " Colin was grandstanding and helping Trump get elected." You claimed he said, "The 66%of uneducated white women who voted for Trump did so because of Kaepernick? Interesting theory!"  He didn't. You lied. Stating that Kaepernick helped Trump get elected is not the same as claiming all 66% of the uneducated white women did so because of Kaepernick. And you know this. Just as discussing the damage the "both sides do it" argument has done is not the same as claiming" Colin Kaepernick is responsible for 30+ years of right wing media poisoning the well." You actually wanted us to defend your asinine strawman, " Can someone help me understand..."  No one can "help you understand" because no one said it, except you, and no one thinks it's true, not even you. Just as stating that tv ratings are down does not mean that I claimed Kaepernick is the only reason they are down. Another lie by rmrd.

    You claim those who disagree with you are like Carlson and Hannity but it's you who are using their tactics by creating the stupidest strawmen I've seen on this site, ascribing those views to those who disagree with you, and then expecting us to defend them. Your complete inability to engage in rational dialog on this issue has destroyed any credibility you might have had to say anything on the issue.

    Words are just words and I don't give a fuck about your uptight anal retentive obsession with profanity. Sometimes bullshit pulled out of your ass is the most accurate and appropriate description of your comments. I stand by that evaluation and I think I've made a convincing case it's true.

     


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 2:47pm

    Tone it down, please.

    I thought this 538 piece covered it well (excluding the effect of kneeling for the anthem on sensitive heartland fold) and *including* some of the better comments.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/yes-its-strange-that-colin-kaepernick-doesnt-have-a-deal-yet/

    Anthony No

    Staff Geologist at Some Science and Engineering Firm

    Thanks for this. 

    As someone who followed last season relatively closely, it was very clear Kap was a strong improvement over Gabbert, and he was clearly improving through the season. His stats have taken a massive hit due to a constantly underwhelming O line (though last season was better), injuries (from which he was recovering last season), receivers who just don't create separation, and offensive coordinators who aren't up to the task of creating somethng from a team that can't seem to create separation before the O line fails. 

    He still clearly always did the best with what he could, and always took responsibility for losses, never throwing his teammates or coaches under the bus, and never even acknowledging his multiple injuries, let alone reasonably explaining that they may be impacting his play. Moreovoer, effectively everyone with whom he's worked indicates he's incredibly smart, a quick learner, and has an incredible work ethic. His Wonderlic score is through the roof, and under previous systems when the O line didn't fail so quickly, he consistently made correct reads in a more complex system.

    That doesn't mean he's the right fit for the niners now. It doesn't mean fans should love him. But the narrative that he can't read the field and the hatred it feeds are simply unjustified. And depressing. 

    Good luck, Kap.

     

    Chris Jones

    Actually, Kap's agent stated they want a starting job, and are WAITING for the right opportunity. Since the only three jobs really available are Houston, Cleveland & NY Jets, we have to look at each. Woody Johnson will not sign Kap for the political ranifications, but Cleveland is waiting for the draft and Houston is waiting

    Thomas Minkiewitz

    Cedarcrest High School

    All y'all crying distraction remember how concerned teams were about Tebow, who was a demonstrably worse QB

    Like · Reply · Mark as spam · 4 · Mar 29, 2017 11:57pm

    Joe Smith

    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

    How concerned were they? Last I checked, he is no longer in the NFL.

    Ryan Hazen

    University of Montana

    It's not "strange" given how most teams either have a franchise quarterback or a young player whom they have a lot invested in. 

    Out of the 32 teams, only San Francisco, Chicago, Cleveland, Houston, and the New york Jets lack a clear starter. Cleveland looks set with Osweiler and Kessler. Houston is waiting on Romo. The others have high draft picks.

    QBR tries to quantify how good a quarterback is, but most of Kaepernick's games were against teams with mediocre defenses and blowouts. Piling on stats during garbage time looks pretty on paper, but GM do research and see through it.

    Tom Stevens

    Works at Storm Team Construction, INC.

    Colin doesn't have a deal, neither does Jay Cutler. Maybe the fact that he is ruored to want 10 million a year from a team is holding things up? He is a borderline starter probable backup in a salary cap league. he may get 5-6 million, but as long as his demand is 10 he will be watching from his couch.

    Like · Reply · Mark as spam · 1 · Mar 30, 2017 3:01pm

    James Johnson

    Boca Raton, Florida

    If he is looking for $10mil I agree that is probably more of the issue. If Kap was looking at $4-$6 then I'd be in agreement that the league, either through direction or similar interests, is keeping him out.

    At $10M though.... yeah.... I like Kap but I wouldn't pay him that much.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 3:04pm

    I've never disputed the claim that Kaepernick has the skills and on ability alone merits a job. While I don't watch football and can't judge I've followed the story and that seems to be the consensus among unbiased writers. As I'm sure you know my argument is that his lack of a job is not due to racism. My secondary point is that Cardwell's ascribing his ridiculous statements to others, particularly NCD, is  a strawman and a lie. That it's obfuscation that has derailed rational dialog on the issue.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 4:23pm

    Appreciate your pointing out Cardwell's incoherent bombast which he continues below. 


    by NCD on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 5:50pm

    Ocean-cat Your fragility is exposed. It's funny: if I condemn rapists no one gets triggered, but if I change one letter and condemn racists it triggers people. I don't care if you like or dislike me. I don't care about your use of profanity. I have never worried about keyboard warriors.

    The "soft" left's inability to accept their defeat is why I highlighted the 66% of uneducated white women. I stand by that argument. When someone says Colin Kaepernick was helping to elect Donald Trump it's disingenuous. If the soft left can't win back their aunts, mothers, and sisters the House and Senate will remain in GOP control and 2020 will be another Trump year. This electoral reality has nothing to do with Kaepernick ever playing football or supporting the 2020 Democratic candidate. 

    I don't write under an alias. I don't have an online personality; everything I write can be linked back to a flesh and blood person who lives at 322 Brook Drive in Hot Springs, Virginia. You might not like or respect me, but I don't like or respect trolls who hide behind avatars and pseudonyms. If words are just words do me a favor: find a woman bigger than you look her in the eye and call her a b*t€h. If words are words go to the nearest Hispanic community and start yelling out beaner. If words are just words go to the nearest Mosque in your community and slander the prophet. You can question my intellect all you want, but just know you are doing it as a coward. I laugh at cowards. 

    Have a great weekend!


    by Danny Cardwell on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 3:37pm

    To be clear, I post under a pseudonym because I don't trut internet flame wars to not spill over into stalking and people going postal or calling up coworkers or... If you've ever had this happen, you might realize there's little "bravery" or "cowardice", but just sane precaution. Not that I speak for OceanKat or you, but the internet allows for privacy - it's not a bug, it's a feature, a choice.

    And I ask agaain, please tone it down.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 4:32pm

    I use a pseudonym because my current job as caretaker of a well know ghost town makes me a person of some local fame. One obsessive fool could cause all sorts of problems for the ghost town. There are several articles in local papers every year about the ghost town that name me as the caretaker. Even though the articles are overwhelmingly positive I use another pseudonym in all the newspaper articles since I don't want people searching my name in the articles and my job spilling over into my personal life.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 6:10pm

    I've been here since this site started a decade ago and have been debating with many here for several years before that on TPM. I doubt that you'll be able to hang here that long as your descent into irrationality in this thread leaves me to believe you can't handle the hard give and take of the debate here.

    That 66% of uneducated white women voted for Trump is a fact that everyone here can easily acknowledge. The problem is you ascribed it to NCD and claimed he blamed it on Kaepernick. NCD in no way said or implied any such thing. You even claimed it was his "theory," a blatant lie. To use your idiotic rapist analogy, If I defend Woody Allen, as I have here, and argue that the child abuse allegation was likely false and you claim I said most child abuse allegations are false that would be a strawman and a lie. Face facts, you are making up stupid lies, claiming those who disagree with you said them, and then asking us to defend your stupid lies.

    Do you believe Kaepernick's protest and statements as to his purpose had any effect on some people's view of BLM? If so than it is entirely plausible that his statements on Hillary also had some effect. Given that  The black voter turnout rate declined for the first time in 20 years in a presidential election, falling to 59.6% in 2016 it's certainly reasonable to believe Kaepernick's critique of Hillary influenced that decline and helped Trump win. For the record since you have consistently and deliberately distorted people's comments here I'm not saying that the decline in black voter turnout was the only reason Trump won nor am I saying Kaepernick is the only cause of that decline. But if just one in ten of the 765,000 blacks who voted in 2012 and sat out the election in 2016 had voted Hillary would have won. It's certainly reasonable to assume Kaepernick might have affected some of them and that NCD's claim that he helped Trump win has validity.

    You can't seriously think your insults about my use of a pseudonyms would carry any weight with the people here when the vast majority of dagbloggers use a pseudonym. You're clearly delusional. People here know why I use a pseudonym without my saying so simply because they use a pseudonym for the same reasons. Let's be frank. You use your name because you have a product to sell. It's not some noble act, it's a self serving act of capitalism. I support capitalism and wish you luck with your attempt to make your writings and magazine pay. But don't pretend your capitalistic venture is some act of courage.

    Why would I go around shouting racist and sexist insults at people? Though I understand why you suggest it. It's the difference between you and me. However harshly I have mostly attacked the content of your posts while you have avoided discussing content to make personal attacks.

     


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 5:57pm

    It's not reasonable to assume Kaepernick was responsible for the decline in voter turnout given that this was the first election without the protection of the Voting Rights Act. Several states had new ID laws in place.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-attack-on-voting-rights-was-t...


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 6:05pm

    The fact that voter suppression laws likely had some effect on black voter decline in no way invalidates the existence of other causes. This is so obvious that I shouldn't have to post it. In fact I don't as everyone here who is not pushing an agenda already knows it. While it's likely those laws influenced black voter decline it's also likely there were other causes. voter suppression laws don't just target blacks but other minorities as well. Those who focus solely on those laws need to explain why while black turnout declined The Latino voter turnout rate held steady at 47.6% in 2016, compared with 48.0% in 2012. It's clearly more complicated than just voter suppression laws.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 6:34pm

    When you look at States like Wisconsin, voter suppression impacted the black community much more than the Latino community.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/latino-decisions/voter-suppression-in-a-po...

    Edit to add:

    There is no reason each community would be impacted equally. 

    2nd Edit to add:

    It is likely that voter suppression efforts were more targeted at black communities 

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/10/re...

     


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 10:44pm

    Here is the crap we get from ocean-kat

    Those who focus solely on those laws need to explain why while black turnout declined

    This is based on the fact that the Latino vote held steady in 2016. What the nuance guy misses is that there was an expected Latino voter surge. At the end of the day, more eligible Latino voters stayed home than actually voted. I doubt Colin Kaepernick played a role in the Latino vote.

    http://california-mexicocenter.org/the-latino-voter-turnout-rate-held-st...

    In Michigan, black turnout fell by 2%. Latino turnout in Michigan dropped 34%. In Florida black and Latino votes fell by 7% and 8%, respectively.

    Overall the Latino vote may have held steady, but the Latino vote in key states fell.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/332970-voter-turnout-dipped-in-2016...

    We do know that poll workers in Michigan turned voters away because of ID issues that were not required by law.

    https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2016/11/11/292...

    Those who argue that other issues were important, are the ones who are required to provide data.

     

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:41am

    Lots of people did their part big and small to steal the election. I haven't forgot, nor do I plan to. There's gonna be a ton that comes out as Muehler and intelligence agencies review the data of who was naughty or nice. I dont take the exit polls at face value, knowing they ignore the various things that went on.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 11:30am

    No one said he was a huge cause for defeat, but he took the opportunity to kick some dirt on her in a facile, Trump-assisting kind of way. It was hard for Trump to buy that kind of endorsement, a current sportstar admired by blacks saying Trump was about par with the Democrats' longest running political force? A few of those, like David Chappelle I mentioned before, and some black males may stay home.

    And the cray white people bit wont fly - Democrats have invested and focused on minorities, the marginalized, etc. We've focused on black issues, immigrant issues, LGBT issues, native American issues, and even women's issues, but largely sidelined "white" issues or subsumed them into the whole. Even as the other side had a steady opium drip of lies straight into their arms roughly 18x7, every waking hour. What's left for the party?

    And the other key item - most people are deluded and dumb as fuck - white, black, Hispanic, female, male, whatever. Sometimes worse for lack of education, sometimes doesnt matter - YMMV.. First of all, it's *under* educated white women, not *un*educated, but I just watched Juaquin Phoenix playing a supposed unstable suicidal guy who can't hold down a laundry job, but somehow banging 2 hot babes within days, one who he obviously doesnt like much, the other who has a rich but married boyfriend - and the movie scored over 70%. The moron stamp of approval - they thought intriguing. Now translate this to politics - most are dumb as a bag of hammers. And we want to debate who's dumber in politics, as if that will change much. Actually it's worse - the awful movie was their own taste and logic, while the political had disinformation, fake news and saturated lies. And if 70%+ can't make the obvious observation that this movie is a tranparently awful manipulative piece of shit, why do we expect intelligence and good taste to creep in freely anywhere else? We're fighting our reptilian brain here - and losing. Making lemon sour mash from lemons. Yum, slurp.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 6:54pm

    Trump played into the racism of white voters. Those voters were screaming about repealing Obamacare until they realized they were benefiting from the program.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lincoln-mitchell/the-democratic-party-work...

    Edit to add:

    We are so far apart. Whites feel that they were ignored. Blacks saw other groups attended to in the last administration. Immigration reform and advances by LGBTQ citizens occurred. Blacks are now told by whites to wait their turn because blacks were the favored group under Obama. If this is truly the mindset of white Democrats, there is no hope. Blacks lost massive wealth in the housing collapse. There is still no motion on police abuse.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 8:54pm

    Former Philly Police Chief Ramsey - there are too many police departments in US:

    Is there a link between police killing people during routine patrols and the sheer number of police departments in the country?

    Former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey argued that there is.

    The numbers back Ramsey up on the number of departments. The final report from the task force he led said there are 17,985 U.S. police agencies.....

    A President has no authority over these 18,000 departments except for civil rights violations. Obama and Holder did what they could. 18000 means 18000 policies, training regimens etc. Local cops are hired, paid locally and enforce local law under local city, county supervision.

    Congress could help by mandatng training/policy standards, but Republicans are more concerned with bathrooms and abortions. If you are expecting a President to get you better local police, it is beyond his power, and would be heavily stoked as a federal take over with the usual fear/racism attacks from the right.


    by NCD on Fri, 07/21/2017 - 11:36pm

    Obama and Holder held police departments accountable. When departments like Ferguson were reviewed, the truth came out. The city via the police department was using black citizens as a piggy bank. Now we have Russian puppet and racist Jeff Sessions in charge. Sessions is giving a green light to police abuse.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:08am

    I only speak for myself, but I've *long* been bitching about mortgage theft that especially hurt blacks, about police violence that especially targeted blacks, about voter disenfranchiaement that especially targeted blacks, lack of efforts to target entrenched black poverty/wealth inequality, etc. 

    However, 1) I just don't think making Kap's football career a litmus test for American racism will fly (there are so many better more obvious ones, no?)

    2) In their messaging towards Hispanics re immigration and focus on LGBT issues and other "identity politics" bits (and I don't really include the emergencies for blacks in this, but I'm sure others feel it), the Democrats have for some time been sending a message that the white demographic is on its way out and to just surrender all you racist bastards because you don't matter.

    This isn't just talk about Sessions - when Hillary campaigned in the Appalachians 8 years ago and appealed to whites, she was attacked as racist. When she swept the south in the 2016 primary, it was both that southern racist whites and mass of southern blacks whose November vote would be marginalized all didn't matter.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 12:17am

    Danny is pointing out that Kaepernick is being punished for speaking out on police abuse. The NFL tolerates wife-beaters (not a t-shirt reference), drug abusers, people who commit physical assault, etc. Kaepernick's jersey remains popular suggesting fan support. The 49ers were the 12th most popular NFL team before the Kaepernick protest and they remain the 12th most popular team after the protest.

    Danny is pointing out an injustice. I doubt this tops his list of priorities the need addrein black American. Think about the condescension in the position that if you take a position on Kaepernick, we will abandon you on other issues.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:05am

    Football sux - deal with it.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:19am

    It is white supremacy that sucks the most. Thanks for showing the hoods at dag, the thin veneer of civility has gone, the patina forever cracked.


    by Mildly interested (not verified) on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 11:13am

    Yeah, that important civility of never shoving back on a half-formed idea, because that would be wrong - patinas need to be kept intact, tactdully, not factually.

    And if Kap doesn't get a contract and play to millions, the white supremacists will have won. Got it, back on message now.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 12:59pm

    Danny gets to point out that Kaepernick is not being treated freely. Black websites are free to criticize Martha Stewart when she uses a racial slur. Blacks tried to prevent Russian puppet Trump rising to the White House. Blacks have no apologies to offer. White folks threw a temper tantrum. Forty percent of the country still supports Trump. That segments does not care about Russia or questionable business practices. Those Trump,supporters are the ones owing apologies.

    Edit to add:

    The black vote decreased in the first Presidential election after the Voting Rights Act was gutted and the conversation is diverted to actually question the impact of Colin Kaepernick on black voter turnout.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 5:54pm

    I have always felt America's diversity would save our democracy - blacks, asians and hispanics (and educated whites), as the right wing hate machine is aimed at rural uneducated bigoted whites who fall for the targeting of hate and fear. And we have the heritage of an antiquated undemocratic Senate, where California should have 80 senators if represented like Wyoming.

    I assume nonwhite leaders and voters will not promote or be taken by the right wing GOP con, and they usually are not.

    CK resembled a lefty purist, he didn't even vote. If he discouraged voters, it may have been white purity angels. 

    CK did not vote: 

    “So, for me, it’s another face that’s going to be the face of that system of oppression. And to me, it didn’t really matter who went in there. The system still remains intact that oppresses people of color.”

    A response: Colin Kaepernick announced that he didn’t vote .
    I don’t want to hear anything else about his social activism…

    Sorry CK, a Trump/Sessions administration really does matter to people of all colors, and the nation, even if it didn't matter to you.


    by NCD on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 7:13pm

    What a brilliant strategy. First he chooses the best way to change people's minds about the BLM movement. I'm sure everyone who saw him kneel during the national anthem immediately thought, "Hey, those BLM people might have a point." Then by not voting he showed all black people the way to make lasting change. I now see why Cardwell and rmrd admire him so. He's a role model for African Americans.


    by ocean-kat on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 9:10pm

    We don't expect you to understand. The support for Kaepernick is that he should not be banned for expressing an opinion. Tom Brady is friends with Trump. Kaepernick has done nothing to get him banned from the NFL. You are so over the top in your poutrage that you associate Kaepernick with the decrease in black voter turnout, something you pulled out of your anal canal.

    Edit to add:

    Regarding the vote, Bernie Sanders was a much more negative factor than Colin Kaepernick.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 9:41pm

    This is beyond my ability to comprehend except as a self-defeating waste of effort.  If any person our group wants to stay home to deliver a message, my answer is that you are not only stupid, but also self-destructive.  If any person or group thinks that both parties are equally evil, my answer is that you are just plain not intelligent.  

    Which Party has done the most for the common good?  No contest.  Maybe when we see all of us under,the umbrella of the Common Good we can realize that all of us can benefit from Democratic Policies.  Not good enough for blacks?  I don't think so.   Blacks have the same interests as whites.


    by CVille Dem on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 9:46pm

    Danny argues that Kaepernick should be able to play in the NFL. There is evidence that voter suppression impacted the 2016 election. I am unaware of evidence that Kaepernick decreased black turnout.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 9:57pm

    Preet Bharara got fired and can't get a job in federal government. Unfair! Probably because he's Indian. Where are the protests? Free the chipati!


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:27pm

    So there is no evidence of a Kaepernick effect.


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 7:42am

    I'm not a Kap-mometer - really couldn't say.

    So there is no evidence that Reagan's dog whistle speech in Philly MS set up by Lee Atwater's racist "Southern Strategy" really had an effect?


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 8:19am

    In this day & age, Kap-mometer easy peasy: just do a watch of this search for a couple days


    by artappraiser on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 12:22pm

    White folks were upset when Ali resisted being sent to Vietnam. Ali is remembered as a hero. White folks were upset when John Carlos and Tommie Smith when they raised fists at the Olympics Smith and Carlos are now heroes. Wanna bet how the uproar over Kaepernick is going to be remembered?. 


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 11:17pm

    My addenda to go with Peracles' comment @ 07/22/2017 - 10:19am


    by artappraiser on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 9:50pm

    p.s. then there's the whole sucker factor, here reduced to a "quick meme" Wanna introduce any kind of politics into that kinda situation, whatever they are, they better be marketable to the (sucker) audience. That could mean purposely causing outrage in the manner of internet trolling, of course, but only to a point that has to be carefully calibrated at which the suckers will still tune in to have their passions stoked by allegory and role play (the agony of victory, the thrill of de feet or something like that...wink)


    by artappraiser on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:05pm

    Like "neoliberal"? (hattip Barefooted)


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:39pm

    Remember the archaeologist filmed in the elevator punching his girlfriend? Or the archaeologists who gang raped some coeds from the archaeology support club? Or the archaeologist who got suspended for betting on dog fights? And when the city diverted a quarter of its budget attracting a new archaeology dig in downtown? Good times. Every time I see an archaeolgist walk down the street, I think "respect", especially since so many are suffering from brain damage from hitting their heads on tunnel ceilings. Modern day warriors. I can see why colleges spend half their money on archaeolgy facilities nd recruiting promising archaelogists

    Edit to note: where I live and most of the world, archaeologists dig with their feet, not their hands, which doesnt much change the sheer excitement and key importance of archaeology to freedom and everyday modern life, taught to adolescents on up (though still considered too intensive for girls, though they can pretnd to dig with pom-poms, which must be exciting), and helping to form skills and instincts important later in the business world. Why Americans insist on doing archaology in such a brutal fashion with padded uniforms and all can be chalked down to regional diversity and isolatioon, perhaps like the development of marsupials on islands, though in a much more compressed timespann

    And for all archaeology's many problems with crass commercialization, it at least it provides a way out for poor kids without opportunities to leave poverty and the slums.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 10:09pm

    Maybe you could inform us as to what those passionate French archeologists do for hours and days on end in those deep dark Neanderthal caves, where the walls are covered with ribald pictures?


    by NCD on Sat, 07/22/2017 - 11:42pm

    Sorry, my mother says I'm not mature enough for Archaeological content like that. Maybe ask Obey - he seems to have spent a lot of time in France sniffing up young Archaeologists' skirts, n'est-ce pas?


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 3:06am

    TFW you cozy up to those hot French archaeologists and they turn out just to be neo-archeologists. smh


    by Obey on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 2:42pm

    How's that compare to Paleo-? Anyway, how ya gonna keep 'em down in the cave once they seen gaie Paris?


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/23/2017 - 2:50pm