Michael Wolraich's picture

    New: In the News Section

    Hello folks. By now you've probably seen the new In the News section on the right sidebar. If you haven't tried it out, here are some tips:

    • Hold the mouse over a link to see a summary description of the article
    • Click the link to go directly to the article
    • Click "Add link" to contribute a link yourself
    • Click "more" to see a full list of news articles

    What do you think of it? Is it useful? How can we improve it?

    To get you started:

    How is the placement? We Are Stardust is concerned that the news link push down the comments, but I worry that if the news links are somewhere else, no one will see them. I've considered a ticker at the top, but I think that could be distracting.

    How is the content? Artappraiser has been doing the lion's share of populating this list, but a few others have also added links. My concern is that the pace is uneven. We get a bunch of links in batches and then some dry spells. I could use a news feed to automatically populate the list, but then I think the automated content will overwhelm user contributions.

    Currently, the list has a fixed size of 5. I could alternatively make the size flexible and just use a 24-hour cut-off.

    What about comments? Stardust felt that one article I linked to should be on the front page because it was an important piece that people might have wanted to discuss. Generally, we haven't put straight-up links without commentary on the front page. Should we start doing that?

    FYI, I'd like to replace the pop-up summary with a more readable HTML format, which I can do when I have some time. I could also move the comments links into that new pop-up, which would save some space.

    Thanks,

    G

    Topics: 

    Comments

    Pay no attention to that asshat We Are Stardust.  What a crank; gets brain-cramp at the drop of a hat!  Practically blind, too.  And hates turnips: that about says it all...

    Plus: Genghis is top-notch at all these tech tweaks; we prolly outta give him a raise...  ;o)


    Love it.  News of the day curated by my favorite peeps on the Web.  Also like the placement of it.


    What do you think of it? Awesome!

    Is it useful? Yes, very.

    How can we improve it? FREE BEER!

    How is the placement? GREAT!

    How is the content? Fine. I love ArtA's stuff. Better than having Quinn posting articles on tractors and farts (this is not Quinn-bait. NOT). But that's just me...

    Generally, we haven't put straight-up links without commentary on the front page. Should we start doing that? No. Imo, if someone finds a piece highly worth commenting, they should write a blog explaining why it is so important to them. And then y'all can masthead that.


    I tried to set up the FREE BEER module, but it has bugs.


    I can work with the bugs; I still have my teeth to filter them as needed.

    I thought it would bother me to have the links above the comments but it doesn't. It doesn't bother me that sometimes there are lot of new items and sometimes there are not.

    Maybe if an item gets a lot of comments, it could stay on top longer.

     


    I was promised chocolate, I am still waiting.


    Not a tractor. 


    Much better!

    ;0)


    Wow! I just noticed that comments on the In the News posts show up in the Latest Comments section. Brilliant, Genghis!

    Trusting members/readers to tell each other what news they think is important is so totally dagblog! (First time, I believe, the word has ever been used as an adjective; you're welcome.)

    The only thing I would suggest is that we, the readers, use that trust responsibly. It's so much easier to just link or copy/paste an article than to elaborate a personal take on it, that it risks being overused. Show some restraint, folks.

    By all means, link to articles you find important but don't have anything useful to add to. But consciously skip the straight news; it's pointless to compete with Google News or TPM or the CNN chyron. Everyone here is some kind of news junkie already. In general, we know what's happening. What we want and need is the insightful analysis, or the overlooked aspect that's the key to understanding a story. The kind of stuff we try to highlight in all our better blogs.

    Once again, Genghis, bold move. I hope we the readers live up to your faith in us. 


    Genghis, I havn't referenced the new items much. I have enough of a challenge following the latest blogs. Maybe reverse the order, put news items in the middle ahead of "From the Dagbloggers".You might save some space by putting the name of the populator in the bubble.

    Seems like you made the comment backlog easier to read, I like that and am using it more for some reason--maybe what Star mentioned.

    All in all, as a newcomer, I reallly like the Dagblog format. Now we need our own conference center and a private jet.   


    Genghis, another thought. Maybe a different color on the news leads.


    Thinking about your questions, Genghis, the feature seems to work pretty well as it is now. Do NOT even think about running a news feed into it. Don't worry; the pace will even out as more people catch on to its existence. Already, I find the really good analytical stuff gets pushed down the list too fast.

    As I said above, we don't need another pure news aggregator. Keep In the News items segregated, however. If someone wants to see it in the central column, post a blog about the topic, you lazy bastards.

    If the size of the list is entirely flexible, I could see giving it (say) a 10-item maximum. I was always annoyed by TPM's arbitrary 24-hour cutoff, so I'd vote against that. I know you only have to click More to find older posts, but so few people cross that one-click barrier. Like I said above, lazy bastards.

    Keep surprising us, Genghis.


    Oh I will. The new porn feature is coming out in January. It's called WikiLicks.

    I agree with you about the 24-hour cutoff at TPM, but these links are meant to be more current and time-sensitive then commentary pieces. I'm thinking about a max length of 10 and a 24-hour cutoff, so the section will stretch when there is lots of news and shrink when news is slow. I also plan to move the comment links into the popup, which will conserve some space.


    I think you worry about placement too much.I bet most everyone mainly accesses the site from "latest comments" and pay little attention to the center of the page until the end of their visit, just to make sure they didn't miss anything. They just think everyone else looks at the center of the page first and they are the only one that doesn't, hence their interest in what's in the center of the page and sometimes fighting about that..It's kind of  like how pre-internet, people would also lie when asked what page/section of the newspaper they read first.

    Laughing

    More seriously, I think people find what they want as long as navigation tools are there and functioning properly. And you've got them. Also, personally, I really don't understand when people get on other people for posting too much, in whatever section or category, I believe the more content the better, especially if there's a reasonable level of quality in the contributions. Nothing's more boring than a slow site with little turnover or activity (tho yeah sure, Daily Kos type megavolume can overwhelm, no danger of that here so far.)  If you hasn't learned to scroll past what doesn't interest you, you haven't learned how to use the internet.


    I've learned to respect the diversity of user activity. Many people, I'm sure, go straight to the latest comment, particularly the ones participating actively in discussions. But we also have plenty of lurkers, many of whom just read dag for articles.

    And placement does affect activity. For instance, reader blog discussions picked up when we moved the section to the top left.

    Placement can also affect usability. I can think of plenty of sites that are too irritating to use. If you do want to go straight to the latest comment, it's a lot more annoying if you have to scroll down. For that reason, I think that I will avoid making the In-the-News section much longer. As it is, the latest comments are still above the scroll line.


    I am not sure what you mean by "pop up" content as a way to save space.

    What artappraiser said about people being able to figure out what they want from a site makes sense to me. Maybe you could say more about what you hope to happen by maintaining a strict time significance schedule. Is there a take it or leave it sort of thing that you want to introduce?


    Clicking on a News link would display a small dialog window with a summary of the story and relevant links. To save space, I could move the "new comments" links and possibly the name of the person who posted the link into that dialog.


    WikiLicks! I love it. I presume it will have its own pop-up section.


    I'm not 100% convinced by the news thingie. I'm already drowning in aggregators and people coming up with their 23 must read links of the day, and subject-related summaries and then the actual newspapers and on and on. 

    We're gonna see a TPM-style pull, whereby people choose stories from their favourite sites, which they think are a minority taste, except... most everybody here reads them.

    Then people will start in with the breaking news stuff that just has to be read. Just because. Or because it's part of being an "informed" person or somesuch rot.

    And then linking to stories just back-up some long argument/fight that was running earlier.

    You can already see all 3 tendencies in the list. I can guarantee they WILL eat that section. 

    And less focus will go to the blogs people have done, or into doing blogs, etc.

    I'd rather someone put up 5 great links to Archaeology stories someone has loved in the last month. Or 5 great music blogs. Or Art History sites. Or perhaps best, Tractor and Combine sites.

    I don't really care which one shows - but I know I'm going to find it MUCH more interesting than rechewing the same goddamn stories of the day, as published by the usual suspects.

    Anyone that's ever been at TPM knows which way this stuff trends - less thought, less heart, less imagination, fewer new frames.

    EITHER IT HAS TO BE INTERESTING AS HELL AND OFF THE BEATEN TRACK, OR LEAVE IT OUT - that's my guiding principle if you have to have "News."

    And BTW, We Hate Your "News" Story.


    I think that it remains to be seen whether people will use the links section for evil/banality, but yes it could happen.

    As for cannibalizing the posts, I'm skeptical. The News section is not a very rich news aggregator, just a supplement to the main blog that curates articles in a more idiosyncratic way than other sites.

    For the record, archaeology or tractor/combine links are welcome.


    My thing is that the In the News section received almost no comments until yesterday.  Maybe it's because it's new, but, in any event,  I am often surprised that so many here seem never have gone around to different sites to read, and are "Amazed!  Simply Amazed" at the most prevalent, ubiquitous headlines.

    It may be that folks here mainly read here, so that it serves a useful purpose.  In general, I see it as the "Well, duh" portion of the site.  (while acknowledging that my take is very er...in the minority.)


    Genghis -- It's great that you consult your users about changes.

    My two cents about placement: 

    The location of your "news" section is logical. However --  I agree with Stardust that "latest comments," is already too limited in length ..... which will only get more limited as people contribute news links. So,  would it be possible to:

    a) move the long list of permanent links to other sites (which takes up a lot of room and rarely changes) to the bottom of the page, where they might be listed horizontally in a few lines within a banner, which would then form a parallel construction to your masthead banner? That would make the entire right column devoted to what is most recent, whether news or comments, which makes sense if one is in a hurry and can only scan.

    Also, for the sake of apples to apples in the left hand column:

    b) could the far left column then consist, top to bottom, of the various contributors:  "From the Readers" followed by "From the Dagbloggers" followed by "Hits of the Day" with the "Creative Corner" then actually in a corner?

    I'd appreciate it if you would at least try this format, and see how people like it.  Bonus: it would help us all avoid eye strain ... I sometimes feel as if my eyes am playing ping pong across, up and down, and diagonally on the page.

    Try it out? See what you think?


    The comments list is not any shorter. It just pushed the blogroll links (now titled Worthy Blogs) further down the page. Putting the blogroll on the right is a blog convention, so I'll keep it there.

    I do agree though that From the Dagbloggers really belongs on the left. Currently, it does not display on the main page. On the other pages, it replaces the blogroll. I did that because there's so much on the left already and because it's not really that useful a section when you're looking at the main page, but it may be worth moving it for consistency.


    I do think people are using the section for info rather than discussion. Personally, I've found that most of the links that have been posted so far have been news to me, but it may be because I don't spend enough time on other news sites.


    Genghis, thank you so much for asking! Makes me feel important, and you KNOW how much I need that!

    Well, so far I haven't used the news part, but it doesn't bug me. I am more interested in the latest comments, and they are still easy to get to, so I'm happy. I have to say, I LOVE the user-friendliness of the site, and I love that you are here so often, tending to it.

    The one and only thing that frustrates me from time to time is how difficult it is to see who a comment is in reply to on a thread. Is that a terribly difficult feature to add?

    Thanks again for caring what we think.


    Of course I care. You folks are the primary users and the ones doing all the great writing.

    The comment issue is a longstanding problem. I need to figure out how to add "in reply to."


    OK, got it figured out. I hope that helps.


    Nice job, it will be easier to follow conversations. I like the idea of the comment links into a popup dialog, that will be a great addition.


    WOW! Ask and ye shall receive...hmmmmm, can I have a pet horse, too? Thanks, Genghis! You're da man!


    Really, if you could even cut down on the white spaces between the lines of comments, comments, and signatures, it would be easier to tell which comments are indented underneath which.  That wasn't very coherent, was it?  But look at a thread, maybe you'll see what I am failing to say.  Shorter: less whilte space between text lines and things like'Reply' .  Hmm.  Yours just above this hasn't much space....back to my corner...  ;o)

    Please pay no attention to Dusty Drapes here; you've aleady cut the white out. 


    Personally I wish you'd move the News Section nearer the bottom of the page just so those of us who like that sort of thing don't have to feel the hate of those who don't, making us wonder each time should we dare post again or should we just fuggedabouit because rather than being appreciated, it will bring scorn. I find the complaints ridiculous regarding such a small piece of real estate and think it would be a blessing if you moved it way down the page.

    I'm pretty sure those who like it are both skilled in using a mouse or touchpad in order to scroll down the screen and wouldn't mind doing so. (I've always used a relatively small laptop; in that case, it's just a thing you expect to have to do on every site you visit.) On the other hand, it seems plenty of those who prefer other sections seem to find that pretty hard to do and need the help with their handicap, so please consider giving them the top of the page.

    Even better, how about just put a link on the top to "News Links,: don't show any of the posts  in it at all on the front page, just have them on a separate page, Many sites use tabs along those lines, having long ago given up the thought that they can fit ledes to all the content on a single page, and there aren't any complaints. Like I said before, if people like something, I think they will find where it is, like a "Creative Corner." Also, a reminder that the largest possible audience is not always the most desirable one.

    BTW, I go down and look at "From The Dagbloggers" often to see if I missed something including new comments. But I figure you have it there because you already have links to the individual bloggers posts across the top of the page.

    One of the things I really like about your site is that every section and category goes page by page  chronologically and you don't cut it off at any point. With that feature, as a relative newcomer, I could easily do things like read a lot of Orlando's posts all at once even though they were spread over a great length of time. Similarly, if I were away from the site for a while, I would love to look over what News Links were posted. Just like others might like to see what Dickday posts they missed.


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