MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
Queen of the world, certified genius now, can do what I like:
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 1:26am
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 1:38am
A history fight. Bob Woodson is spearheading the 1776 project. Black historians are arguing the "true" history of blacks in America. It is a response to the 1619 Project.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/the-crucial-voice-of-1776
The surprising number of black millionaires was six.
People know of Tulsa's Black Wall Street and its destruction
If the 1619 Project and the 1776 Project get people reading, it is all to the good.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 10:40am
Video of an hour presentation of the 1776 Project is available on C-SPAN
https://www.c-span.org/video/?469366-1/discussion-african-american-history
Ida Bae Wells obviously does not hold the 1776 Project in high regard
There was a Congressional hearing on reparations . Ta-Nehisi Coates and Coleman Hughes argued the pro and con of reparations. Wells did not find Hughes' argument compelling.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/19/reparations-slavery-ta-nehisi-coates-v-coleman-hughes#comment-130325794
I think the discussions are important. You cannot improve conditions by pretending race doesn't exist, or by saying that race is discussed too much.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 12:31pm
I guess I'd be a killjoy to suggest more reading in how to create the Black Wall Street of 2025 and 2050 than this continual reflection on the remote past. Fintech, Machine Learning, electric cars, data analytics, robotics, IoT, neural implants, next gen medicine, and good old fashioned smart investing...
Gen-Z and after doesn't even remember The Wall or the Internet Boom or the Bush years. Time's moving fast - and so are the oligarchs.
And it's hard to see how discussing the 17th & 18th Centuries creates a direct path to "improve conditions". *Current* education, home and family wealth, health services, use of technology, better jobs, security and equal access to the law... Thomas Jefferson doesn't even know how to type, much less text.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 12:33pm
I want to take what you said further and apply it to what's happening in this specific case. She's acting like a Bernie Bro. That's because she's taking the revision of history and making it political, as if you win something politically by revising history. (I.E., we proved you were lying all along, now we're gonna get reparations or some such.) This is directly contrary to what scholarly history is all about! The whole idea is to de-politicize what happened! You wait until there's no vested interests pushing this narrative or that narrative, until the past is really the past.
This behavior is really going to hurt the rep of the project if it continues, for that very reason.
Bernie Bro types will never be respected historians. It's not a fight between conflicting narratives, it's a continual process of revising as new data comes along, a team effort not a competition.
So yeah, back to the future now. That's where the politicking goes on. You read history, learn from it, move on.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 5:15pm
To be fair, Blacks have always had to play a bit Bernie Bro to push through some reevaluation of what we like to think of as accepted history - including perceptions & acts of Jefferson and Woodrow Wilson, whether statues are just war monuments vs symbols of slave masters, acknowledgment of achievements and even existence in different eras & events...
But this 1619 thing is comical and self-defeatung, something akin to an effort to "prove" a Chinese admiral and explorer "discovered" America in 1420, except that would make Chinese first, while 1619 just emphasizes Black lastness forevermore. It's actually an argument *against* reparations, essentially proving nothing will ever move them from that historical low ground, 400 Years A Slave and counting.
Anyway, there are enough respected Black historians opposing this 1619 nuttiness that I don't have to feel like an old racist bastard for sensing there's something monumentally off with this effort. No, Obama didn't end racism, but he doesn't have "1619 Slave" written all over him either, and he and Michelle have shown these last 3 years that life doesn't even stop even after the White House, they're still working on some new chapter.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 7:04pm
My first instinct was to say "point taken", but after I had a little time on it: I think not. Having the backing and imprimatur of the NYTimes on this project,including distribution to educational systems, how much higher can one go? She's destroying what was achieved, aiding her enemies. You can either do political agitation or be a historian that's taken seriously by other historians, not both.
Edit to add: you're falling into your own trap there of judging by the past, as if things such as power dynamics haven't changed and continue to. You almost convinced me to do the same, that's the thing! Hah.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 1:48am
Sorry, you lost me on both paragraphs. Try me again?
(e.g. power dynamics have or haven't changed?
They kind of have - and haven't, to split the difference.
"It depends..." if you need some more waffle with that syrup.
Was I talking about being a *bit* elbows out, rather than
gonzo overboard? there are certainly lots of cases in academia
where extremely good ideas are discarded because of politics and
fight club or simply no one was intrigued enough & it countered
accepted wisdom, so sometimes shepherding ideas through *is* required,
though you may have to live with the results & fallout of that effort)
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 7:24am
Re: To be fair, Blacks have always had to play a bit Bernie Bro to push through some reevaluation of what we like to think of as accepted history -
That's over. It's far from powerless to have one's version of history backed in a major expensive and continuing project sponsored by the New York Times to be broadcast by them around the world and with a huge marketing campaign.
Edit to add: or go back to my original post, top of the page: Hours of petty + determined trolling isn’t what I’d traditionally expect from a prominent @nytimes contributor, but here we are. Has power, is abusing it., lording it over those with a differing historical narrative.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 2:24pm
I was just saying if she were half as abrasive, it might be about right to make things move (even with the NYT as megaphone). But she's roughly like some of the lame BLM spokespeople who flopped pretty badly, far from strategic or canny, just overassured and annoying and out of her depth.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 2:41pm
Right now the left has the cultural power, the right has the political power:
And any real scholar of history doesn't cotton to the idea of using the field to wield political power in the contemporary environment. And to even stay out of contemporary cultural power play as much as is humanly possible. The point is to strive to reach an objective truth about what really happened in the past.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 4:15pm
PP, on your point. and also on mine that "it's over". This was tweeted today by NASA (under a Trump administration, mind you.) I saw it because it was retweeted by Rick Wilson.
But noooo, we have to remain victims and revise the histories to spin our victimization to the max and then gnash and wail and render garments and allow no further input unless it follows the narrative...and there's still those bronze statues that still gotta be torn down...hey, did ya see the honorary NASA tweet about Stonewall Jackson's birthday?
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/24/2020 - 10:54pm
That was just *Stonewall* - LGBTQ trib @ NASA following MLK day, OK?
[we been talking bout Jackson ever since the fire went out...]
But yes, nice to have Katherine Johnson as part of our lore now. "First Black computer" - sounds like post-robitics, not early 60's.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 02/24/2020 - 11:13pm
and speaking of rehashing and regnashing over ghosts,for chrissakes:
Next up the Armenian genocide, let's pit Turkish-Americans against Armenian Americans. After that we can do the Potato Famine revisionism, with Brexit and all, it's about time, hey it's possible one could even recruit Harry and Meghan to speak truth to powah ?....
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/24/2020 - 11:40pm
The NYT 1619 Project is hosting a discussion of the role of slavery in the Revolutionary War on March 6th. at the Times Center
The panelists include two Pulitzer Prize winning historians, Annette Gordon-Reed and Alan Taylor. The chair of the history department at University of New Hampshire and Gerald Horne will also be on the panel. Hopefully, it will be live streamed or available after the event.
The 1619 Project
Slavery and the American Revolution:
A Historical Dialogue
MARCH
06
,
NEW YORK
What inspired the American Revolution? Was it a fight to secure freedom for all or bondage for some? Did the Patriots struggle for liberty or property? How should contemporary Americans regard the causes, character and legacy of the war that led to the nation’s founding? In recent months, some questions about the role of slavery in the American Revolution have been at the center of a raging debate triggered by The New York Times Magazine’s 1619 Project. To dig more deeply into the history of this period, The Times has convened an evening of informed discussion with leading scholars of the era, historians with a range of views who have done primary research on the Revolutionary Era and slavery in early America and will speak to the evidence and source material underlying the debate.
Arguments about the nation’s founding are nothing new. Almost since the moment the first bullets flew, 250 years ago in March 1770, debates about the causes of the Revolution have proliferated. Every decade since, Americans’ understanding of the war has been deepened by new sources and new historical scholarship. Today in an age of disinformation and propaganda, it is critical to understand not only our history, but our historiography, the complex and contentious ways that American historians have built on the work of their predecessors, revising and clarifying the story of our nation’s past.
Join us on March 6, 2020, for a spirited conversation with historians whose original research has helped us understand the complicated moment that gave birth to our republic.
https://timesevents.nytimes.com/1619dialogue
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 12:06pm
This video clip I just noticed is actually a followup to one critical of Bloomberg and stop-and-frisk and his treatment of women etc.BUT it's much bigger picture from Timothy Synder, professor of history @ Yale. I like this in the context of both the political shit going on here as noted on this thrad AND the bigger context of the ongoing grand project of the history of the U.S.:
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/19/2020 - 7:33pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 2:27pm
The latest 1619 Project article was published on 02/12/20. The article focused on 12 sites that were used for slave auctions. These sites have quietly blended into the scenery. Perhaps the buildings should be marked to remind us of the role they played in the past. We have Confederate sites maintained. Reminding us of the selling of human beings that the Confederates supported is also important.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/12/magazine/1619-project-slave-auction-sites.html
The 1619 Project is not a joke The 1619 Project is strong enough to debate the published articles in public. As noted in a post above, a public discussion on the role of slavery in triggering the Revolutionary War will be held in NYC on 03/06/20. Included in the panel will be Gerald Horne who argues that blacks fighting for freedom along side of the indigenous people and the Spanish created a fear of armed blacks in the colonists. In addition, Virginia Governor Lord Dunsmore threatened to arm enslaved men to counter the rebel colonials.
https://www.amrevmuseum.org/read-the-revolution/history/counter-revolution-1776
Here is editor Nikole Hannah-Jones speaking at UVA
https://www.cbs19news.com/story/41712685/new-york-times-writer-nikole-hannahjones-talks-about-the-1619-project
I guess the laughter is from a guy on Twitter
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/20/2020 - 9:40pm
1619 Project Fact-Checker Says The New York Times Ignored Her Objections
A history professor disputed some of Nikole Hannah-Jones's claims about slavery and the American Revolution.
By Robby Soave @ Reason.com | 3.6.2020 1:52 PM
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/08/2020 - 1:24pm
A clearer picture painted by Harris in Politico:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-project-new-york-times-mistake-122248
She further notes how Wood and a Wilentz have problems dealing with slavery. At any rate, the issue will be added in the 1619 Project book.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/08/2020 - 6:45pm
Students have been taught crap history including the Lost Cause
Now there is outrage because of the 1619 Project.
Crocodile tears.
Harris was concerned that Conservatives would use the "controversy" to blow up the entire 1619 Project.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/08/2020 - 9:44pm
Retweeted by Coleman Hughes:
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/12/2020 - 2:03pm
Now can we remove Lost Cause textbooks from the classroom?
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/texas-students-will-learn-slavery-civil-war-11726708
The 1619 statement
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/magazine/an-update-to-the-1619-project.html
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/12/2020 - 2:38pm
This is total bullshit. While the Brits had rulings limiting slave ownership in England in 1774, it wasn't until 1807, 31 years after the Declaration of Independence, that the African slave trade triangle started to be curtailed, slowing down slavery in all the British colonies, but more ending in 1836. It was more the colonists who limited slave import to a few states in 1773/4.
Ever heard of Jamaica?
https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/slavery/timeline/1773.html
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 5:16pm
WTF. This is historical fact. To keep the colonists in line, the British were ready to offer freedom to enslaved blacks who sided with Great Britain.
Lord Dunsmore, Governor of Virginia made it clear in a proclamation
https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/lord-dunmore-s-proclamation-1775/
When the British lost, they took about 3,000 black people to fend for themselves in Nova Scotia
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/nova-scotia-noir-exploring-black-history-canada-n737651
There was a threat that more enslaved blacks would escape to the British side.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 7:18pm
So a British response to a Colonist revolt was the cause for the Colonists revolt. Got it. Cart? You go here, in front of horse.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 11:22pm
Classic way to practice faux history according to pre-determined narrative. You got your story and you just switch a few things around in the chronology of the plot and voila, great story! (Ratings maybe too!)
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 11:35pm
The British were ready, in places, to offer freedom to enslaved people. Dunsmore used enslaved people as a threat. This did help build anti-British sentiment.
https://ushistoryscene.com/article/lord-dunmore/
The argument is that Dunmore helped the colonial cause.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 8:41am
No, Lord Dunmore made a desperation offer late 1775 as he was exiled to his ship - he was well hated to begin with, and he only survived 1 month more, getting maybe 1000 slaves to believe him, then pissed off to Bahamas where he invigorated the slave trade and sugar harvesting, slavery surviving to 1834.
You can read all about the buildup to the Revolutionary War starting Apr 1775, and there's damn little worry about British freeing the slaves, and why exactly would they since British royalty owned huge pieces of the slave business at the highest levels.
Not sure what all this ahistorical revisionist history buys you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murray,_4th_Earl_of_Dunmore
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 12:41pm
https://www.history.com/news/the-ex-slaves-who-fought-with-the-british
Enslaved people fought for the British
Colonists were not pleased by the proclamation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunmore%27s_Proclamation
The proclamation was a factor as the 1619 Project suggests.
The Pulitzer committee agrees that the 1619 Project is worthy of praise
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 2:05pm
Note also
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/active_learning/explorations/revolution/revolution_slavery.cfm
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 2:14pm
You're in good company - Trump thinks the 1918 Spanish Flu helped push World War I to a close starting in 1917.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 3:18pm
CreatedNovember 7, 1775RatifiedNovember 14, 1775Author(s)John Murray, 4th Earl of DunmorePurposeTo declare martial law, and to encourage slaves of rebels in Virginia to leave their masters and support the Loyalistcause
Dunmore's Proclamation, is a historical document signed on November 7, 1775, by John Murray, 4th Earl of Dunmore, royal governorof the British Colony of Virginia. The proclamation declared martial law[1]and promised freedom for slaves of American revolutionaries who left their owners and joined the royal forces.
Formally proclaimed on November 15, its publication prompted a flood of slaves (from both patriot and loyalist owners) to run away and enlist with Dunmore; during the course of the war, between 80,000 and 100,000 slaves escaped from the plantations.[2] It also raised a furor among Virginia's slave-owning elites (again of both political persuasions), to whom the possibility of a slave rebellion was a major fear. The proclamation ultimately failed in meeting Dunmore's objectives; he was forced out of the colony in 1776, taking about 300 former slaves with him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunmore%27s_Proclamation
The colonists did fear enslaved people gaining freedom
Edit to add:
I am in good company, the Pulitzer committee who awarded the 2020 honors.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 3:44pm
War started April 1775. Hard to see how a Nov 1775 proclamation after being run off to his ship in defeat could've motivated a war begun 7 months earlier. Wishful magical thinking?
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 4:01pm
January 1776: Thomas Paine’s Common Sense published
In late 1775 the colonial conflict with the British still looked like a civil war, not a war aiming to separate nations; however, the publication of Thomas Paine’s irreverent pamphlet Common Sense abruptly put independence on the agenda. Paine’s 50-page pamphlet, couched in elegant direct language, sold more than 100,000 copies within a few months. More than any other single publication, Common Sense paved the way for the Declaration of Independence.
July 4, 1776: Declaration of Independence adopted
After the Congress recommended that colonies form their own governments, the Declaration of Independence was written by Thomas Jefferson and revised in committee. On July 2 the Congress voted for independence; on July 4 it adopted the Declaration of Independence.
https://www.britannica.com/list/timeline-of-the-american-revolution
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 4:27pm
Man, super-revisionist apologist
Do note that the July 1775 Declaration of Causes does not seem to mention slaves or slavery except as the white Colonists feeling slaves of the British King and Legislature.
Go ahead, dig a bit deeper, I'll put on more popcorn.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 6:31pm
Your popcorn is burnt. From the first historical view of the Revolutionary War.
https://earlyamericanists.com/2014/02/18/was-the-american-revolution-a-civil-war/
Edit to add:
There were Loyalists siding with the British. They were terrorized after the war. That is why the black Loyalists headed to the uncertainty of places like Nova Scotia.
https://www.npr.org/2015/07/03/419824333/what-happened-to-british-loyalists-after-the-revolutionary-war
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 7:22pm
Black Loyalists also went to Bahamas and Barbados and thereby spent another 60 years in slavery (Maryland or better PA would've been a better choice)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 2:33am
I noted that the British used enslaved people as pawns.
Blacks fought on both sides of the Revolutionary War and still lost.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 6:53am
You, like 1000s of other people, noted that the British used enslaved people as pawns.
Blacks fought in small numbers on both sides of the Revolutionary War, and were not likely to gain much in the end.
(Romania switched to the winning side at the end of both World Wars - them's the guys you want to learn from)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 8:37am
Thanks for repeating what I said.
There were small numbers of blacks who used the Romanian option and were freed by the colonists and others by the British. Romanians probably got the idea from black people.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 8:44am
Huh? The Romanians switched sides twice to come out winners both times, certainly weren't slaves - they were independent countries and they knew when their side was losing & when to switch. Hey, my Mom was fixing pancakes and then decided to have mushroom soup instead - guess she chose the Romanian option, just like those black guys in the Revolutionary War.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 9:06am
I'm laughing at you, not with you.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 9:18am
Sound of 1 brain cell clapping
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 9:22am
Good one! she says because there's no damn "like" button
Edit to add, re: Tue, 05/05/2020 - 3:18pm <nod,nod> just like Trump. magical thinking, magical history. except Trump has no patience to cherry pick internet to create narrative. He does it the old-fashioned way, like a patent medicine salesman
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 6:39pm
p.s. new book out soon
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 6:43pm
You did not include this part of the quote that you quoted.
In addition to what motivated the supporters of Independence on the America side were the arguments on the England side. The interest in not having just one set of motivations explain every thing is key to having the motivation to preserve slavery kept in view. It was an important element for Empire and Colony but was not a simple issue for either.
The baby and the bathwater.
What is clear is that what permitted so much hypocrisy from all sides is the way that black slaves were generally accepted to be property. There were no white slaves. You have to be accepted as a human being before you have human rights. The freedom given to black people back then was as conditional as a hastily scrawled IOU on a bar napkin.
by moat on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 5:12pm
Edit to add:
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 4:58pm
Congratulations to Nikole Hannah-Jones
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/business/media/pulitzer-prizes.html
Edit to add:
Trump thinks they won a Nobel Prize
2nd Edit to add:
Ida B. Wells, the acclaimed civil rights era journalist whose investigating reporting inspired Hannah-Jones herself, was also given a posthumous Pulitzer Prize citation.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/04/2020 - 7:28pm
http://bostonreview.net/race-politics/david-waldstreicher-hidden-stakes-1619-controversy
On the critic's letter to the NYT
and
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/historians-clash-1619-project/604093/
Hannah-Jones has a Pulitzer. The academic debate will continue. Wilentz's view of true history will be challenged.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 9:08pm
Books already out
Forced Founders
https://eh.net/book_reviews/forced-founders-indians-debtors-slaves-and-the-making-of-the-american-revolution-in-virginia/
A Slaveholder's Union
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo9270100.html
The Common Cause Creating Race and Nation in the American Revolution
https://uncpress.org/book/9781469626635/the-common-cause/
The books argue for a larger than previously understood role of slavery in the lead up to the Revolutionary War. There is also a reminder that the Constitution was pro-slavery.
The British did not care about enslaved blacks, but were willing to use them as pawns. The colonists were willing to use the threats of black insurrection to solidify a base against the British.
This part of the ongoing debate among historians.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/05/2020 - 10:31pm
A Marxian reinterpretation of history - who woulda guessed. My favorite was Founding Father's anticipating cotton farming on the moon, starting the Need African Slave Astronauts program right under the eyes of unwitting abolitionists.
The Brits also offered to free slaves in the War of 1812, which is considered one of the major causes of the Revolution, along with the need to grow cotton along the Ohio River which promoted the French-Indian War (though if crops didn't work out, the Founding Fathers anticipated car factories and steel mills as a "Plan B"
Whee, ain't history fun! Look, Ma! No hands!
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 12:37am
Yawn
New research into the facts. You are stuck and predictable.
Wilentz sent out a letter asking for backup and was rejected by most.
One posted his objections on a Socialist website
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/18/oake-n18.html
Oh, the horror
You are just a guy standing on the lawn yelling, longing for the past when views of history were mostly whitebread, as Painter pointed out.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 6:51am
John McWhorter:
quote from the above:
McWhorter and Glenn Loury discuss Hannah-Jones Pulitzer here:
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/11/2020 - 8:14am