oleeb's picture

    A Few Questions About The Health Insurance Bill

    By oleeb on Thu, 03/18/2010 - 4:26pm |

    1.     Does it provide for universal healthcare for every United States citizen?

     

    No.  Ten million or more Americans will remain completely outside of our healthcare system once this bill becomes law.

     

    2.     Is there a plan to cover the millions that are being left out?

     

    No.

     

    3.     Does the bill provide for any competition in the insurance industry or will the monopolies that exist in most markets remain intact?

     

    No.  The law provides for no competition in the insurance industry and the current system of insurance market monopoly remains fully intact. 

    The President and his allies repeatedly worked behind the scenes to make sure there would be no publicly run insurance option available to the public that would provide the competition the President said throughout his campaign was essential to any healthcare reform bill.

     

    4.     Is the bill going to stop insurance companies from denying coverage to those with previously existing medical conditions?

     

    No, not t right away and maybe not at all.

    The bill allows insurance companies to keep denying coverage to sick children like they do presently for 6 months after enactment.  The bill also gives the insurance companies an additional 4 years of denying adults coverage or dropping them due to previous conditions before they have to stop that immoral practice.  Once the regulations take effect, insurance companies will face a paltry $100/day fine if they violate the rule.  With fines that low it is quite likely insurance companies will choose to pay the fines as opposed to the more expensive medical care they should provide. It only makes sense for them to do so.  After all, they aren't in the healthcare business.  Insurance companies are in the profit business.  If given a choice between increasing their profits or not, is it reasonable or prudent to expect the insurance companies to lower their profits and cover those who need expensive treatments out of the goodness of their hearts?

     

    5.     Will the bill control the costs of insurance for workers and their families?

     

    No.  There is nothing in the bill that would keep insurance companies from raising their rates just as they currently do.

     

    6.     Will people be forced to buy health insurance?

     

    Yes.  If not otherwise covered by an employer provided policy or if you have decided you cannot afford health insurance as an individual, you will be required to buy health insurance from the private market.  Government regulations will determine whether you are forced to buy health insurance and whether or not you will be eligible for a subsidy to help you buy it.

     

    7.     What will the insurance companies be required to do in return for the 40 million or so new customers and the $70 Billion in revenue they will get as a result of the mandate and subsidies?

     

    Nothing.  They are not required to do anything in return for the mandate.

     

    8.     Has there been any commitment made by anyone in the White House or Congress even to a timeline about reviewing this legislative package and improving it?  All the people advocating passage say the bill will be improved later.  What is their plan for improving it and what are the improvements that they will make?

     

    No.  There is no timeline at all and no plan of any kind has been laid out regarding improving this bill in the future.

    Comments

    Yeah but what's not to like...if you are an insurance company or PHrMA executive?

    From where I sit the whole premise of this legislation is, "if we allow the corporations to make more money that will allow them to charge less for the health care we consume".

    Ummmmmmm, yeah, I am sure that'll work just like a charm.


    by Libertine (not verified) on Thu, 03/18/2010 - 4:36pm

    You got that right Libertine!


    by oleeb (not verified) on Thu, 03/18/2010 - 4:43pm

    Thirty million more people are going to be covered by this measure and no child, none, period will be denied coverage.

    Do we spite thirty million out of some sort of honor?

    We have the sludge, the evil, the lowest of the low as an opposition party.

    If you wish to blame someone, blame the corporate bastards who refuse to do one goddamnable thing that is right, that is humane.


    by dickday (not verified) on Thu, 03/18/2010 - 11:09pm

    Do we spite thirty million out of some sort of honor?

    Bravo!

    Why would anyone sacrifice anything for honor?

    We're talking about physical well-being here!

    Honor is for fools, or aristocrats, or heroes!

    Not for us!


    by George Jurgenson (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:03am

    Sounds like a sure-fire way to get re-elected to me!

    For the Republicans.


    by readytoblowagasket (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:10am

    No. The law provides for no competition in the insurance industry and the current system of insurance market monopoly remains fully intact.

    What do you mean by monopoly? Is there only one health insurance company?

    Or do you define it as a monopoly purely on the basis that only private companies are allowed to compete?


    by Glaivester (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:19am

    It's disgusting. A sell out. Democrats are unworthy of trust.


    by Indie Pro (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 1:12am

    Monopoly in this context is not a national reference. Market monopolies exist all over the US. For example, many states have one health insurance provider in their market that so dominates the market with it's share (often upwards of 75%) of the business that it is for all and intents and purposes a monopoly in the classic sense (states are the only regulatory authority over insurance companies remember). This is the case in almost every insurance market in the US. Sometimes two or three companies will divvy up a market, but even then it's like a trust or collusion with prices, etc... this is very well known stuff. Not a secret by any means.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 2:53am

    But DD, the point here is that the Democrats and Obama specifically lied repeatedly to the people saying they were for and that they would achieve "universal" healthcare or "healthcare for all Americans." So why did they leave out millions of our people? They sure didn't leave any insurance companies behind.

    The question and answer serve to clarify what has or has not been done in the bill. Has universal healthcare been done by the Democrats? No. What's the plan to solve that serious deficiency? They aren't talking about that. I believe they aren't talking about it because they don't plan to do a God damn thing about it DD. That's important for people to realize and understand about what is being done.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 2:56am

    I think the $100/day penalty is assessed for businesses that drop an employee from a health plan and push them into the national/state 'high risk' govt. subsidized pool, it is not for insurance companies, the employee could still get coverage through the fed/state high risk pool for which hundreds of millions of funding is planned.

    I searched the 2400 page bill and didn't note any specific requirement for insurance companies to sell insurance to everyone although it seems that will occur at some point, ...2014??

    I did note that there will not be a mandatory federal 'review' of premiums until 2014. Who knows what rates will be by that date.


    by NobleCommentDecider (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 3:11am

    What is the defining characteristic of those ten millions being left out?


    by Donal (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 8:05am

    This law is exactly the law the industry and our congress had in mind when they started out. The only real written in stone objective was to make certain corporations and persons more rich. Anything else it does is an afterthought. Anyone outside of Washington who has been watching this unfold for the last year knows that.


    by thepeoplechoose (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 9:54am

    "Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. "

    Obama during the Bret Baier interview


    by Indie Pro (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 12:14pm

    Oleeb,
    I want to thank you and many, many others for comments posted to one blog or another in the past few weeks that have collectively identified, one nail and board at a time, how we, collectively and as individuals, have become boxed-in without a crow bar:
    exempting insurance companies from anti-trust litigation;
    tightened requirements for filing personal bankruptcy;
    enactment lag for credit "reform" that gave banks time to inflate interest rates to usurious levels;
    short terms resulting in constant campaign mentality, leading to indentured servant relationship of pols to corporate contributors;
    the SCotUS ruling on corporate personhood and free speech;
    unwillingness of pols looking for money to cross corporate agendas;
    framing of HCR, from the get-go, according to corporate agendas resulting in the prohibition on single payer, or public option as viable considerations;
    if HCR bill is passed, enactment lag time that will give insurance companies time to raise rates at will before any caps, thereafter, will pertain;
    deferred attention to job stimulus program;
    ever escalating numbers of applicants asking for relief in the form of insurance pools, or Medicaid, or unemployment benefits which results in overburdened state budgets, and more and more people being turned away.....

    HealthJustice sent out an email today that offered predictions for the future, as well as a recommendation to buy stock in WellPoint.

    Cynical, yes, but also logical thinking:
    https:
    //mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&shva=1#inbox/12774397d313b53c

    If you don't mind your car being keyed (if you live in Republican territory) you can buy a Medicare for ALL bumpersticker from them here:
    http://www.cafepress.com/1payerdotnet/



    by wwstaebler (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 1:08pm

    Warms one's heart to know we elected a Republican President doesn't it? He will be well rewarded by his corporate BFF's upon leaving office. That's really what all this is about. He knows he's selling out the people of this country, but it's all about him when he leaves office. I know that sounds terrible, but I now have no doubt that's what this guy is all about and always has been about.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 2:13pm

    Just confirms what I keep on saying...ideologically Obama is closer to conservatives than he is to liberals. Hearing that makes me serious consider trying to bring down his conservative agenda. Centrist? Centrist my ass...when it is more important to keep conservatives happy, by proudly saying he rejected the ideas of the left, time to fight.


    by Libertine (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 2:23pm

    It's as plain as day how the people are getting screwed here. What is most disappointing is how many otherwise intelligent and progressive Democrats have been bamboozled by this bullshit about how "it's this or nothing" when there's simply no evidence to support that argument. In my view, nothing really is better than this noose being put around the necks of the American public. The disaster this is creating is as easy to see as was the disaster of invading Iraq for no good reason, but the Groupthink machine is running on full tilt and Democratic lemmings are in line and marching steadily for the cliffs despite being warned over and over and over.

    Here are a few easy predictions to make:

    Passage of this bad bill will do nothing to protect Democrats from a bloody and bruising election this fall because despite their lies about the health insurance profit protection act, the people know they are in the pocket of the corporations and if you're going to get Republican policies you might as well have real Republicans in office to put them in place.

    The health insurance bill will strengthen the very worst aspects of the healthcare system for common Americans and actually make it much harder for any actual reform to take place for many, many years to come. At first they will say we need to give this new law time to see if it works and then as the power of the insurance parasites grow they will refuse to relinquish their guaranteed profit pool of mandated customers and subsidized customers while also refusing to submit to any cost containment measures that might impinge on their obscene profits.

    The Republicans and the health insurance industry, aided and abetted by Obama's favorite Conservadems will, in the next four years, eviscerate every remnant of the law that resembles any sort of real reform. And as they make the law more and more ineffective and honerous, the Republicans will blame the Democrats for having passed it. With each debilitating change, the Republicans will claim they are trying to improve the law while in fact they will be doing all they can to make it as cumbersome and unpopular as possible. The Democrats will helplessly lie back and say what the Republicans are doing is unfair and get their asses deservedly kicked over and over and over.

    Prices will continue to go through the roof for workers and businesses now held hostage to the for profit insurance parasites. We will see no improvement at all in terms of what it costs Americans to get health insurance coverage and the high prices for the rotten insurance the companies sell will drive more and more people into the category of being subsidized while also discouraging more and more people from actually availing themselves of the healthcare services they need. That's their only cost containment idea: make it expensive enough that people don't use the system as much.

    These and other negative effects are what Democrats are now so suicidally insisting on. It will be cold comfort to say "I told you so" to all those who chose surreneder and doing the wrong thing because "anything is better than nothing".


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 2:26pm

    "Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. "

    The more I ponder this passage the more my blood is boiling. So he takes pride, while being interviewed by an arch-conservative Fox TV news personality, in blocking liberals in his attempt to maintain the status quo, one that totally fucked up this country to begin with. HAHAHA...yeah, this is supposed to be the change we can believe in, huh?


    by Libertine (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 3:39pm

    The whole conversation started off on the wrong foot.

    Obama started it about covering the uninsured. He should have made it about everybody getting better care for less money.

    He also talked about reducing the overall costs to the economy.

    But he should have been talking about bringing down your insurance premiums so that you have increased takehome pay while you're still fully covered.

    He just got it wrong.


    by destor23 (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:19pm

    Our most beloved Lincoln suffered from this political malady as well, catering his speeches to accomodate his southern Ill. audiences to the point of sometimes racist jokes on the stump.

    I know Obama is different, but don't forget he is only a politician. Don't hate the player, hate the game.


    by Joe Wood (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:20pm

    I here by advocate a general strike until the coddling of corporations stops.


    by Zeno_of_Citium (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:22pm

    ww said:

    enactment lag time that will give insurance companies time to raise rates at will before any caps, thereafter, will pertain

    Right now the legislation stipulates forming a board of "industry experts" who will set "limits" on annual increases.

    Of course that implies the rates will be going up every year.

    So our definition of a "cap" and the government's definition of a "cap" are quite different, I'm sure.


    by readytoblowagasket (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:40pm

    But it works so well with public companies. Just look how business executive serve on boards and curb pay for other business executives. Some have to save for months to by the new gulfstream!


    by destor23 (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:51pm

    I don't hate the player I do hate the game. The game is centrists (Obama, Clinton, Rahm et al) playing the left for suckers. They are more interested in playing nice with the conservatives and have nothing but scorn for the left. We have been repeatedly insulted by Rahm then taken for granted and written off by our president. How the hell are we supposed to react Joe? I, for one, am damn tired of turning the other cheek. Now he is telling us progressives that we must jump on board with the corporate giveaway, which he drafted with the conservatives, masquerading as reform or we progressives will doom his presidency? What is wrong with this picture?


    by Libertine (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 4:52pm

    When I started reading your comment, destor, I began thinking about the executives who sit on nonprofit boards and successfully hold down the salaries of the nonprofit's staff.

    Hey! Maybe that's an argument for converting to a nonprofit health care system!


    by readytoblowagasket (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 5:05pm

    Don Corleone once said, "I don't care about things that don't affect me." While this is a hugely selfish and socially unresponsible statement, I do feel a sort of relation to this sentiment. Whatever the inner workings of Congress are--if you need healthcare, the thing is to get it passed, not to worry over procedure or graft, or politics of the sausagemaking. We have more IMMEDIATE needs.

    If Massachusetts gets a brand new hospital thanks to Sen. Dodd, I could care less. I care if I have access and affordability to health care, so in twenty years I can see my kids graduate and get married, as opposed to spending my third Christmas in a coffin.

    See the context here? See the stakes? For me, it is not the Capitol and it's inner sanctums and minions. It is whether I am going to be able to be healthy or not. Whether my kids will have a father that can play ball with them or not. Whether I will be alive or not.

    If you are going to oppose any change that involves even the smallest improvements for people like me, all I can say is you must be living more comfortably with this system than people like me. I believe the people who should have say so are the ones at the heart of the matter; people who don't have any health care. People who already have health care can't appreciate what it's like to be broke all the time and no doctor, and to try and live healthy with a serious disease, which I happen to have.

    For me, for my kids--this is personal.

    I'd like to be alive in 20 years. But I have had no doctor for over a year. I can't afford those medicines I was on when I had insurance. At this rate, I don't see how I will be alive in 20 years--age 52. That's just not right, and it should supercede any issues people may have with this bill. If it helps me get health coverage, you should support it for MY sake.


    by Joe Wood (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 5:13pm

    But we're not getting affordable health care (single payer) we are being told to buy insurance in the overpriced marketplace.

    Feel free to do what you feel you must do as will I. The American people deserve single payer health care like what the rest of the industrialized world has...and being told that because of the deals Obama cut with corporations, and their republican lackeys, we aren't getting it infuriates me. So when I am told that this is such a good deal I will recoil like a rattlesnake and strike. I will not be tread on anymore by the powers to be, those being corporations and their bought and paid for politicos in DC, both the R and D flavors.


    by Libertine (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 5:33pm

    The argument over single payer in this bill has ceased.....

    Maybe some day, but that discussion has happened for this bill. To not eat the cake because you really wanted a bigger slice is silly.

    This is not a perfect fix. But if you are starving, you eat the damn thing.


    by Joe Wood (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 5:37pm

    Many people will die between now and then Joe, even if this so-called reform is passed, because the insurance companies are still calling the shots. As long as deference is paid to them first and foremost they are calling the shots. Meanwhile while tens of thousands still die, while the corporations profit obscenely and the status quo is preserved, we can all sleep soundly knowing that this will 'save lives' when it eventually kicks in 4 years from now. Right? In what form will it be in by 2012? Who knows 4 years is an eternity for health insurers and PHrMA lobbyists to get congress to make the changes they want.


    by Libertine (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 5:46pm

    It isn't as though the players aren't making a conscious decision for whom to play. They bear full responsibility for their betrayal of the common people.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 6:08pm

    "Whatever the inner workings of Congress are--if you need healthcare, the thing is to get it passed, not to worry over procedure or graft, or politics of the sausagemaking."

    This only works if you're getting healthcare and it doesn't work at all if you're not. In this bill we are not getting healthcare reform at all. We are getting a special interest bonanza for insurance companies in return for precious little healthcare.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/19/2010 - 6:10pm

    As predicted , the first stages of the Health Care Bill was passed. Why, you ask ? It is because people wish to be seen for their in put of a view and not unite. What is lost is respect with in a concept of { Freedom Of Choice } to be a part of this system or not, with in this Health Care Force Pay Matrix.
    What is offered by FASC Concepts is the Freedom Of Choice, because we feel it is unconstitutional to force pay into the failures of Health Care Insurance Companies and then Tax that money. As you can see our elected officials are paying little attention to the public. As I reach out to my computer and I knock , knock, knock on the screen, and I say is there any body out there?
    This Health Care issue keeps taking turns and twist that bewilder the mind in thoughts. This $100 trillion dollar system ,as it would seem, I am counting up to $ 8 trillion 682 billion Dollars so far. On guy emailed me and he is up to $27 Trillion dollars.
    You see when Harry Reid added a extra ....almost, $2 Trillion dollars in a tax forum, this through my numbers off with the 1 to 3 year spread of taxes.
    Lets show you this way seeing how I run out of fingers to count on and I do not feel like taking my shoes off.....
    to get a $4 Trillion dollar tax spread, it is based at a 0.25% up to 4 years.
    To be able to see the amount taxed in one year as a whole at 50% is around $8.2 Trillion to $8.8 Trillion, please remember according to Government Officials this is to be a spread tax, 3 to 10 years.. There is over 10 thousand companies I have not even got to yet. So lets take this $ 8 trillion 682 billion Dollars , reach into your mind and say ,1 to 3 to 10 years Tax against the Health Care System, then take this 10% tax against the almost $4 Trillion Dollars, your factor must be a multiplication. Then you will see this Tax factor as net value of that system. But of course Government Officials will not show the a net value of a system or that one company, this wold make it to easy for the People to follow the Tax Dollar.
    Remember this tax dollar does not include the split petition of the tax forum of increases in other areas, in the name of Health Care Reform. This tax forum I, or we can have very little effect against.
    As for theses hidden taxes, they are not hidden. They are built into a split petition. They are meant not to be seen, only revealed as the Progressive Capital Tax Forum works the system in order to not over burden the money system. What is lost is trust because Government Officials by considering the public slow witted and as for this Bill, I want to read the Law that is to represent the Bill. This is because one word has a directive and a code and a sentence can lead to a different truth in concept.
    So now it begins, the Civil Rights Law Suits and Constitutional Suits. We are not talking just a few law suits we are talking thousands will be filed because of the Freedom Of Choice is taken away and a Tax against money that is not Government Officials Rights to Tax, the Health Care Money for Coverage.
    Within our web site we suggested to build a Government Web Site that will show the People the monthly income of this Health Care Dollar and what the dollar is used for. But of Course this can not be allowed this would audit the IRS and Government System.

    So, what do you wish to do ? Sit back and complain or unite your voice as one and state that ,{ We believe in the Freedom Of Choice to be a Part Of this Health Care System or not. } We intend to give life to hope to where there is none.
    FASC Concepts in and for Pay It Forward. Join the trickle effect and email President Obama .....
    Our goal is to start a trickle effect and the goal is President Obama and this Bill to Law. To merge 250 million veiws for a honest Health Care reform. The trickle effect is , Email President Barack Obama
    Mar 20, 2009 ... How to contact President Barack Obama and other White House Officials.
    www.emailthepresident.com/ - Cached – Similar
    and state we support FASC Concepts in part or in full, and share your views and be respectful in order to gain respect.
    Health Care within a moral value, is to ,
    { GIVE LIFE TO HOPE WHERE THERE IS NONE }
    Henry Massingale
    FASC Concepts in and for Pay It Forward
    www.fascmovement.mysite.com on google. yahoo, and aol.com
    please take the time and visit all my new friends on the net and if you wish to post with FASC Concepts you will be most welcomed. So join us and share your ideas as one in one voice. Just type in the web address and you will see over Results 1 - 10 of about 6,730 for www fascmovement com and there is over 10,000 post that are 6 month old.


    by FASC Concept (not verified) on Mon, 03/22/2010 - 12:46pm

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