I highly recommend this comment.

C

Very well put Curt! Very well put indeed!

Well put, Oleeb.

It is long overdue for Americans to confront the mass stupidity and cowardice that followed the Sept. 11, '01 attacks. The way in which Hypocrite-Republicans trashed our country's reputation and national security was outrageous; the way Coward-Democrats supinely rubberstamped that lunacy was at least as outrageous. It disrespects the tragedy of the victims on that day to silently acquiesce in the tremendous scandal that has foisted itself upon their memory. The attacking suicide-terrorists of 9 years ago won a slight temporary victory amongst a few potential followers that was soon outweighed by the outpouring of international sympathy and support for the US, which, however, was in turn outweighed by the dismay at how that sympathy and support was wantonly squandered -by Cheney-Bush, blank-checked to a lesser or greater degree by most Congressional Democrats. The temporary gain to Al Qaeda of Sept 11, 2001 was puny compared to the loss America inflicted upon itself in response. It is high time to stop pretending otherwise. The official reaction to 9-11 ranks -with the reaction to the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Salem Witch craze and the Red Scare of 1919- among the great mass unhingings of our history.

"I'm a midwesterner who spent a substantial portion of my early adult life in the northeast and it definitely crossed my mind that all these luminaries, government leaders, talking heads, "journalists", rich people, etc... wouldn't be half as concerned if this happened in Omaha or Witchita or Topeka. Call me cynical but I think the ruling class was a helluva lot more upset about this because they personally felt threatened."

Yes, and we've seen how they came to terms with their personal feelings of insecurity. They deployed the National Guard from Omaha, Wichita and Topeka and then they went back to making money and sending their kids to private schools while kids from the midwest fight the wars.

The midwest didn't lose many on 9/11 but we sure have since and their names aren't on any monument and no one gives a damn that they continue to die.

Great post!

Instead of being cowed by the propaganda and the maudlin, melodramatic rhetoric I encourage all my fellow citizens to remember how earlier generations of American reacted to adversity and that was with practical resolve, unyielding and fierce courage and never did those Americans who came before us operate out of fear.

Not just earlier generations. Don't forget Flight 93 and "let's roll". I get a chill and tear up whenever I remember them.

Thanks Wendy. Yes, I probably could use an editor more often than not. On this particular post I just sat down and quickly banged it out because I didn't know if I'd actually be able to post it if I took too long given the odd, lingering situation with reader blogs here. It was almost stream of consciousness, but I've thought about this subject a whole lot over time so it just came rolling out. I'm very glad it was well met.

Oh c'mon. The WWI generation locked up all of the Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. During the first decades of the 20th century, the country was seized by a "red scare" which produced massive infringements of liberty . It's one thing to point out the cowardly and ignorant response to 9/11; it's another to romantically idealize the Americans of previous generations.

I think there's an important distinction here and that is when real danger is present.

The Palmer Raids were manufactured hysteria over nothing at all except the anger of certain elements in the government at dissenters. They created a boogey man as an excuse to violate the rights of people. But there was no fear of the Kaiser or his allies. The victims of the Palmer raids were the same people who were pre-war trying to organize the factories and shops and railroad yards all over the country. There was no threat at all per se, just a ginned up pack of lies about disloyalty and subversion.

The interment of the Japanese during WWII was (shamefully) not all that big a deal at the time which is a sad and disgraceful commentary on how racist and xenophobic we were at that time. But fear of Japanese in any way analagous to the fear of a communist under your bed during the Cold War or terrorism now? I dont think there was any at all in World War II. The government was suspicious of the loyalty of Japanese Americans and contrary to all decency and common sense just rounded up all of them just to "make sure". Our overtly racist nation just went along with it.

What we saw from both the government and the people during those two wars were anger and a resolve to defeat the enemy... that attacked us but certainly not out of a fear they might do it again. Quite the contrary. From day one when the US entered the war FDR's statement in his request for a declaration of war set the tone.

FDR calmly and carefully laid out what the Japanese had done in the pacific on December 7th and 8th and somberly noted that despite our efforts to avoid this eventuality "a state of war exists" between the US and the Japanese Empire. He concluded the address with these words:

"The American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory."

Thank you Oleeb. This was too well written for me to offer anything of value to it.

You would think that at least the reporters whose lives, and whose staff's lives, were deliberately targeted by a mass murderer would never rest until they had figured out who targeted them.

How do we know they don't already know. Intimidation is usually very effective.

They use fear to sell every program they have now, and Obama is especially guilty of that. The first thing he did was tell us we needed more money for education or "the economy wouldn't recover". We had to pass the cap and trade bill to create green jobs or "the economy wouldn't recover". We're just sick of being told what to be afraid of. This is what passes for leadership in America today.

Really? I dont' think so; I think Curt's comment represents precisely the kind of hate on the so-called left that helps to preserve the power of the ruling class you refer to. Indeed, I see the same kind of ignorance, polished but ignorant nonetheless, in Curt's focus on Israel, this historically consistent trope and hateful statement that we, the non-Jews, are fighting Israel's wars, and the same stereotyping and disregard of the great diversity among 1.5 billion Muslims in presuming that Israel is the key to everything, that we see in the extreme Tea Partiers on the other side. At the threshold it utterly ignores that Osama bin Laden never mentioned Israel as the basis for 9/11 or for the actions taken by al Qaeda before 9/11. Now he does I suppose, but that's because it sells to folks, even in the West. Yes, indeed, Jew hatred sells. Wow, how fucking profound. It's just the same hatred we've always seen, and it's often been polished.

Honestly, if the Cafe doesn't come back, the incessant focus on Israel and controlling Jews is something I will not miss. It disgusts me, and it should disgust people who claim to care about truth and justice too.

And, finally, to disregard the significance of the Towers falling as an American tragedy of monumental and eternal significance is just dumb as well as hurtful. Three thousand people were killed in that fucking "shoebox." And to claim that the focus on the Towers is significant relative to an alleged lack of focus on Oklahoma City is just that much nonsense, and I say that with respect Oleeb to you because I know you were trying to make a bigger point.

In the end, people wonder why the so-called left is left to kvetch at places like this, while others do the job of fucking up the country. I don't.

Wow ... Hey BSLev ...

Someone piss in your coffee or crap in your cream of wheat this morning?

You sound so god damn shrill and ridiculous laying a bunch of bullshit at the feet of "the so-called left."

...to disregard the significance of the Towers falling as an American tragedy of monumental and eternal significance is just dumb as well as hurtful. Three thousand people were killed in that fucking "shoebox."

The following two sections ARE the heart of the matter:

I honestly don't mean to diminish the real and genuine concerns that existed, but the near panic I found among our elite, even under these horrifying circumstances, unbecoming and not very inspiring to say the least. It was clear Bin Laden had succeeded in scaring them. Far from being inspirational that night in his speech, Bush looked like a deer caught in the headlights after a day of hiding out. I found him lacking in the extreme on that day all around.

It was tragic. It was a crime of unprecedented proportions, but despite the spectacular nature of the attack and gruesome toll of that day I still refuse to accept that anything took place that day that should "change everything". Frankly, I find that an absurd over reaction, but sadly one that we allowed to consume our country's governmental policies and we are now clearly seeing the negative effects of that over reaction in many, many ways. I must re-emphasize that beyond the inconveniences at the airport when traveling and a few other minor annoyances, little or nothing has changed for the average American except the name of "the enemy" that now finally filled the blank space that used to be filled by the words "Soviet Union." It has seemed all very Orwellian to me the entire time.

Now BSlev ... go stuff a fucking sock in it!

~OGD~

Stating facts, however unpleasant, is a far cry from fear-mongering. Fear mongering is fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here, or Sharia law is already practiced in some counties in the United States, or Victory Mosque.

Your false equivalence smacks of partisan doublespeak.

The only ones seemingly "afraid" of paying teachers or creating energy systems for the future, are the wealthy, who begrudge the American people even a meager existence and a hope for the future of their children and their country.

That too.

Well, it worked for me! And many others as well, it seems.
Maybe you've found your way toward Art in your posts.
;o)

Well we'll just have to disagree on this one a bit Bruce. Nobody said the September 11th attacks weren't of huge significance. The point is not to downplay that but to say despite their significance the whole line of thinking that everything changed was and remains an absurd over reaction. Clearly, anyone with eyes can see that everything has not changed. In fact, very little has changed for the common American in their daily life. What has happened is that the war machine has used 9/11 as an excuse to expropriate even more money, manpower and everything else to inflate the importance and power of "the enemy" so it can do it's thing which neither protects us nor has done any good in wiping out Al Qaeda. We have lost a great deal here in order to make this massive committment to a truly global program of mass violence that continues terrorizing tens of millions of innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and perhaps elesewhere. The mythical "war on terror" is a massive failure in all it's publicly stated objectives. There's simply no way around that conclusion as far as I can tell yet every single message you and I send via the internet and all our telephonic communications are monitored by the government, the executive branch claims the power to decalre citizens terrorists by fiat and have them murdered anywhere on the globe without the slightest wiff of constitutional authority or judicial review, torture of prisoners continues, kidnappings and illegal indefinite detentions continue and more. They got away with all of this by claiming that we had to become more like a totalitarian police state and a thuggish imperial power to be safe here at home when the Pentagon's own studies have decalred that the wars have exactly the opposite effect by creating more bitterness and hatred of the west and America specifically throughout the muslim world (which only stands to reason) and thus we are less safe. Almost all of their domestic spying program is performed on perfectly innocent, ordinary Americans. I think the latest study to show that the FBI routinely abuses it's anti-terror powers under the mislabeled Patriot Act was from the GAO. The list goes on and on. None of these actions was justified by the heinous criminal acts of September 11, 2001.

oleeb,

I don't disagree with you about abuses of power by the federal government since 9/11, and I consider it an imperative that we continue to jealously guard our civil liberties. 9/11 is not a pretext for unfettered violations of our privacy.

That's not what I'm responding to. My response, and the emotion I express and which I make absolutely no apologies for, is the comment you were lauding, which I submit represents the oldest bigotry known to "western civilization." And that's not a minor point from where I sit, and I don't believe that anyone who harbors the kinds of presumptions about Israel and all that is implicit behind the reference to Israel's wars is not a member of any real left, but is really just a member of the "so-called left."

And I'm sorry if I caused your thread to go off-track. You and I have had many discussions over the years that I'm proud of, and I would appreciate the opportunity to have many more.

Bruce

There really isn't any need to defend me Oleeb. People can draw their own conclusions about what I write, even when I choose not to stay between the lines. But I am sorry because I've disrupted your thread.

No sweat Bruce.

BTW, Happy New Year buddy! I hope your holiday was a good one.

Hard to see how pointing out the consequences of a failure to act the economy will suffer is equivalent to telling people that if they don't surrender their liberty a terrorist will kill them, their families and/or their countrymen. If the former is using fear to push a policy through then it is a form of fear that isn't analagous to what our government has done in response to 9/11 as far as I'm concerned. I think it's apples and oranges.

Now now now ... Bruise Easily. . .

Oh my my my ... It's the worn trope "Go fuck yourself" ... Eh? Pffft...

I know you are part of the "in" set in this place. one of the "othering" gang.

You don't know shit from shinola nor your ass from your elbow if you really believe that I'm part of the "in" set...

And that leads me to believe that you presume I agree with Curt's bullshit too. But, you'd be totally out to lunch once again.

See, you'd be really surprised how you and I are very similar in background. Other than the age difference, and that you're there in the city and I'm 2460 miles to the west. Like you, I'm a crotchety son of a bitch and a 30 year ex-union steward and negotiator. Although only married once for 42 years, she's a special ed teacher for 40 years and can put up with anything...

So if you don't like any of this you can just jam that sock further down your piehole...

Makes not a bit of difference to me what you think.

~OGD~

This is the best commentary on 9/11 I have read.

Well done Oleeb, captures my own thoughts well.

The media seems to sorely lack peopole of real world experience. Because of the use of lie detectors (fear of someone lying to them that they can't detect is lying-end result is either goody two shoes or pathological liars that manipulate the goody two shoes) in hiring for any sensitive positions both within federal government and out, we have folks who have not tasted the real world outside the confines of their suburbia and TVs.

Combine them with the insulated moneyed elite running the media, we get zero leadership.

Boy am I glad I live in West Virginia where I have the best chance of making it through the inevitables.

Well 9/11 was 'uncommon'. For anyone who hasn't read it, the interview with former top German government Minister, Andreas Von Buelow from 2002:

...Are the explanations plausible? This time, this is not the case at all.....There are 26 intelligence services in the U.S.A. with a budget of $30 billion.....which were not able to prevent the attacks. In fact, they didn't even have an inkling they would happen. For 60 decisive minutes, the military and intelligence agencies let the fighter planes stay on the ground, 48 hours later, however, the FBI presented a list of suicide attackers. Within ten days, it emerged that seven of them were still alive...Atta and..assailants who, in their preparations, leave tracks behind them like a herd of stampeding elephants? They made payments with credit cards with their own names; they reported to their flight instructors with their own names. They left behind rented cars with flight manuals in Arabic for jumbo jets.......Clues were left like behind like in a child's game of hide-and-seek, which were to be followed!...With the help of the horrifying attacks, the Western mass democracies were subjected to brainwashing. The enemy image of anti-communism doesn't work any more; it is to be replaced by peoples of Islamic belief....

Former German Minister rejects theory of 9/11 attacks link

Saw this on Raw Story just now, Oleeb. Thought you might want to blog it:

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Thousands_held_without_trial_in_Ira_09132010.html

A new Amnesty Intl. report on abuse of prisoners in Iraq and no trials for loads of them.

How's it working out so far in Iraq?