oleeb's picture

    "Public Option" Would Only Be Available To The Otherwise Uninsured

    I'm not sure thatpeople really understand how the "public option" would work, given the rhetoric of the adminstration that people could "keep" their current insurance if they want to or choose a public option. 

    Last night on The Daily Show, Secretary Sebelius, in response to a question, made things a bit clearer regarding just how the public option would work.  She was asked "who would choose" whether or not to use the public option: the employee or the employer?  The Secretary said essentially it would be the choice of the employer because if the employer provides health insurance then that is the insurance the employee would have to use.  Only if the employer chose not to provide health insurance would the employee be able to enroll in the public option.

    Most of the people I know that have employer provided health insurance are glad they have insurance as opposed to not having it, but they hate the plans they have because the expense is totally unreasonable and with each passing year, less and less coverage is provided while costs go up.  So, leaving the choice to employers is not the same as providing choice to citizens at all.

    It may well be that many employers, particularly small businesses and organizations would choose to reduce their out of pocket costs by making a contribution to the public option pool of funds thus allowing their employees to choose the public option.  But unless there is a virtual stampede by employers for the public option and one's employer made that choice, employees would have,at least as Sebelius explained it, no real choice at all.  If there's going to be a public option at all it seems to me it ought to be a real choice for every American and that this set up is designed to protect the interests of the insurance industry as opposed to the pocketbooks of families and businesses or the health of our people.  It's the sort of "compromise" that would only be made by someone who knows they'll never have to worry about healthcare for themselves or their families, but they are perfectly willing to "compromise" when the negative effects are only felt by the little people.

    While the idea of a public option is better than nothing, the more I learn about the public option the more it seems like a poor substitute for doing what should have been done decades ago, and what we still need to do now, which is to establish some form of single payer health care system.  It is the most efficient, easiest to implement, and most beneficial to the people, the businesses and the health of the US population.

    Comments

    What about people who are laid off or otherwise unemployed? What choices, if any, would they have under this plan?


    Some good questions raised, but they are independent of the context of the other reforms and the affect they will have on private insurance companies, many of which will make the coverage less onerous for the people they cover.

    The idea is to fix the system holistically in an effort to move the ball down the field. Any health care reforms today, must be considered in light of all the other reforms we must make over the coming years, many of which are interconnected and will have unknown consequences to the system as a whole until after they are put in place.

    Long-term, unless the American citizen fixes their voting handicap and inability to understand how important the primary elections are means any reforms will only last as long as the public is paying attention. Without the potential to lose their jobs every two, four or six years, Congress will never be a sustainable avenue for change.


    She didn't address that question other than to make clear that anyone who was not covered could "choose" the public option if that was their preference. Of course, it goes without saying that the choice is predicated on whether or not you have any money or enough money to make a choice. Those who are poor, I guess, would automatically be subsidized either to participate in the public option or in a private plan, but I'm sure the private insurers would not want any poor or sick people if they could foist them off on the public option.


    All these other reforms highlight why taking the route the President and Democrats have chosen makes far less sense than developing some form of single payer. Why settle for moving the ball down the field for some undetermined length of time when you can go all the way down the field and score an easy touchdown for everyone by implementing some form of single payer plan? The convoluted logic of the course our "leaders" have chosen only makes sense if you ignore what makes the most sense for our people, our businesses and our country as a whole.


    Well, I don't necessarily agree that the long-bomb for single payer is likely to result in a touchdown, so it is a wasted effort at best given the forces arrayed against it as well as the inherent difficulties in actually implementing such a system.

    It could lead to a turnover as well, setting the team back and perhaps putting the entire game at jeopardy.

    I agree that Obama hasn't been nearly as forceful as he should be and that Congress is just a train wreck with regards to this issue no matter which party you favor. I think we could have used this opportunity to fix the most glaring problems in a multi-billion dollar industry while at the same setting the stage for changing expectations.

    Just because people agree there should be a "public option" or some sort of public plan doesn't mean that all those people think it should replace private insurance or that it should be the only game in town. There really is no nation of 320,000,000 that can't point to a single-payer health insurance system that has been successful. Not to mention a country that had an already existing system to be replaced by said single-payer system.

    When we are in uncharted waters, anyone who says they absolutely know the way and it is the only possible route to get where we are going is automatically suspect in my eyes.


    Thanks for pointing this out.

    I'm also hearing that there is a provision in the law that says that you can keep any private insurance you have on the day the bill becomes law.

    However, you cannot replace it with another private insurance after that, only public.

    In other words - if you decide to switch from employer's insurance to your own, or change jobs; then you must use public option.

    Did you come across that too?


    That's not correct. The private insurance are DROOLING over the prospect of getting healthy poor people who's premiums would be covered by government subsidies.


    No it didn't. What Sebelius said was that it depends upon the choice of your employer. If you were to switch jobs and the employer provided health insurance you would have to go with whatever they have (as we mostly do now since it's too expensive to procure as one individual or family).


    I haven't seen even the House bill, and the Senate has yet to act, so I'm not sure what the proposed rules will be, or whether Sebelius is correct.

    Assuming she is, my interpretation is this. A very extensive public option would create great leverage to drive down costs, as drug ccompanies and healthcare providers compete to participate by offering lower rates (The VA and Medicare offer some examples - particularly in regard to drug costs for VA patients). Seeing this, many small business employers who have a choice will find it economically preferable to pay into the public pool rather than pay private insurance companies to cover their employees. This, in turn, will further drive down even the private insurance costs, as insurers compete for a diminishing market, and so employers who maintain private insurance will also be able to offer employees a better deal. That incentive will grow even stronger when job growth resumes and employers start competing for qualified job applicants.


    This just means your employer will continue to be your agent in choosing health care providers. However, the next time around they will be able to choose the public option in addition to the array of private options.

    Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. The major point is that private insurers will be in direct competition with the public option, which will force them to equalize or be left behind.

    One weakness in this whole scheme is that it's difficult to compare competing insurance vendors on the basis of how hard they are going to fight against you when you make a claim.

    This legislation is massively complex, so there may be some standards-based coverage coming in it, that will leave little or no room for weaseling out of paying claims. I haven't heard much on this front.


    Provided, of course, that your employer is not profiting off the health insurance they sell you. Some do. Those employers would never offer a public option.


    I don't know. This seems rather unworkable. There is nothing that says I HAVE to buy insurance from my employer right now. If they are going to make it a law that you HAVE to buy insurance from your employer, then there needs to be price controls in place, otherwise employers are going to start foisting off the entire cost of health insurance on their employees. The only thing that keeps them from doing that now is your ability to walk away when costs get too high.

    Don't think your employer would profit off you like that? Take a look at the vending machines in the break room. Think about how much you pay for the company's product or to buy something off the company shelf. Sure, you may not pay retail, but neither do you only pay cost.

    So to make this work, you have to put price controls on employer-provided insurance. Do you think price control is a policy they could ever get through Congress? But without price control, the entire system is going to blow up in our faces, and the Democrats will own that failure. Are they really that stupid?

    Wait. I forgot. They are.


    I doubt that is how it's going to work. My read of what you are saying is that it is like a backdoor single payer plan. Any time you want to change jobs or insurance companies, then you are bumped to the public option pile. In that kind of plan, over time private insurance would be just for those who have never changed jobs.

    I bet we'd be hearing a lot more hollering from pundits if this was how it was going to go down.


    Maybe you should work for someone more trustworthy.


    Point taken. Hopefully it will be harder to get away with that post-reform, since any job can and will offer you a decent insurance plan.

    Currently, for someone with a pre-existing condition, the prospect of getting onto someone's group plan is worth paying extra. Likely, only a few companies near them both offer insurance and would agree to hire someone who's a big health liability.


    Health care is part of your compensation package. If your employer is overcharging you for it, that's just reducing your salary, making it easier for other companies to offer you a better deal.

    I don't see that as a huge problem post-reform, when we won't be locked into the few jobs that still offer a plan. Competition will work that out once the healthcare barrier is broken down.


    This doesn't even make sense! Clearly you have ever shopped for group insurance, or have had to deal with the laws regarding payroll withholding.

    How does one translate the expensive and time consuming task of negotiating price and benefits for their employees into a profit center?


    Not just the primaries - we really need to focus on getting dems out for the non-presidential election cycles. More repubs than dems always vote in those. We've lost some good people because of that.


    Yet only an average of 16% turnout for primary elections, whether mid-term or not, with a slight upturn this last presidential primary to 30% participation. Still pathetic. Until we get 70% or better for every single election no matter what is being voted on this country will continue to be run by special interests, left and right.


    This is how a kick-ass public plan could totally change the nature of the health care insurance world.

    Combined with strict regulations of all the parties involved and a common medical IT system and we will have addressed half the problem. The other half is changing our lifestyle choices and becoming healthier as a nation. We need to change the way food is grown and the way livestock is raised. It appears we'll have to regulate portion control by way of strict caloric standards for a meal served at a restaurant. The whole country needs some serious education on this issue.

    Failing that, no amount of health care reform will save the system from an entire nation has so much food it is killing us with a variety of chronic and expensive diseases.


    By charging 20%-40% more than what I can purchase for individual coverage. Unfortunately I know far more about this than I ever wanted to know because I have had to shop for individual coverage and because I have also shopped for group coverage for 300 employees.

    It's really simple, actually. There is nothing that says your employer has to tell you how much your insurance costs. If they can negotiate a rate of $500 a month per employee, they can then turn around and offer it to the employees for $900 a month, and there is no way the employees can know how much they're being ripped off because they aren't buying it from the insurance company, they're buying it from their employer.

    Many companies today look at employees as liabilities, not assets. They find innovative ways to screw people every day. Do you honestly think they aren't doing that with your health insurance? It's a great way to cut payroll without the employees being aware they are taking a pay cut - just blame it on the rising cost of healthcare and people accept it.

    But a national health insurance plan would be a different beast altogether. Because it is government administered, you could find out what the real cost is, thus your employer wouldn't be able to profit from it, especially if the law punishes those employers who charge more than actual cost. This could be a big reason corporate America hasn't got behind this initiative. The other being it would end health insurance bondage.


    You have a point there. As long as they are healthy, they would want the subsidies the government would pay out for the poor. But of course, the poor often have many more health issues that are a direct result of their poverty.


    Fred, your explanation is the best that this skeptic of public health care has yet seen. It makes good sense to see the government as another player--a competitor--that would call the other kids on the block to greater efficiency, frugality and accountability.
    However, if the government were the only insurance provider--uh, no thanks.


    this wouldn't surprise me in the least. I have come to expect HTIB (Yglesias's term - hyper timid incrementalist bullshit) from this President.

    He knows the right thing to do - but doesn't have the ability to lead all his fellow corporatist dems into actually making meaningful changes.

    Obama knows we should have Single payer Universal Healthcare - like Britain or France. He just doesn't feel like fighting the good fight for the ideal solution. He could crack his whip and get the Dems into line - using fundraising/primary threats - but he doesn't really care enough to engage in the dirty work that is needed.

    So we'll get a similar result as the stimulus package: start with a plan that is inadequate to meet the problem, then bargain away most of it to a few Republicans who don't have any power, then negotiate more of it away to the damn blue dogs, and corporate Dems. Then claim victory, knowing full well the solution is completely inadequate to solve the problem.


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