The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Sense or Nonsense

    By HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 8:52am |

    The allegation: Bernie Sanders published a "rape-fantasy essay".

    The decision:  Nonsense.  Unless Sanders contributed to Penthouse forum under an assumed name, he did not publicize a rape-fantasy essay.

    Analysis: This right-wing smear derives from a rambling inchoate essay Bernie wrote for the Vermont Freeman - an alternative magazine - in 1972.   In the essay Sanders writes about two individuals who have fantasies:

    "A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy.  A woman on her knees, a woman tied up, a woman abused."

    "A woman enjoys intercourse with her man - as she fantasizes about being raped by three men simultaneously."

    Sanders is obviously not writing to titillate or to excite.  He is simply describing the reality of life for many men and perhaps most women.

    If conservatives want to bash a well-known politico for publishing pornographic descriptions of forced sex, they should go after Bill O'Reilly.

    Comments

    Frankly, a bit irrelevant from almost a half century ago, and probably more offensive to men as having a "typical" fantasy of degrading women to get off. Yeah, it was some rhetorical somewhat preacher-intellectual social commentary trying to analyze something between the sexes. Watch Woody Allen/Diane Keaton for tons of this now-slightly-embarrassing deconstructionist chatter from around that time. More interested in what Hillary learned from Alinsky about the same time and how it influences her now.

    Anyway, think Bernie could use Sarah as communications director to update the messaging (yes, you have to click the link to understand the gif below):

    From the woman who brought us "I've done some drinkin', some druggin'. Tried it in the butt one or nine times." and the simple rape prevention tip sheet:


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 12:17pm

    This should be handed out at colleges, workplaces, and military bases.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 3:26pm

    Pretty amazing, eh? Can have a similar one for "black progress" or however Chris Rock describes white people not doing so much crazy shit. "Yeah, we've evolved so much by white people learning not to lynch us..."

    Take it down the line - 

    1) don't set up black people with drugs to make your numbers

    2) when you see a black person walking alone (or in a group), don't panic and run to the other side of the street, or if a policeman, stop and frisk.

    3) if you pull over to help a black person whose car has broken down, try not to put them flat on the pavement and tase them....

    4) if you are in an elevator and a black person gets in... never mind, bridge too far

    5) when you encounter a black person asleep or passed out or having a medical emergency, try not to tase or shoot them....

    etc., etc. Wonder if the Buddy System would work, or backfire?


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 3:42pm

     Tell you what:  I'll stop talking about Bernie's supposed rape article (easy for me since I never have) if you'll stop talking about Hillary's supposed early career move as a Goldwater Girl.  Okay?


    by Ramona on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 11:44am

    I probably shouldn't have posted this blog.  It was a reaction to something I read - not by PP or Ramona.  It's kind of a waste of space and if I could pull it I would.  That said, if Sanders pulls off the long-shot upset somehow, the cons will probably try to use this against him.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 12:09pm

    Oh and I'm leaving the Goldwater girl stuff by the wayside Ramona.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 12:10pm

    Thank you, Hal.  I appreciate it.  Your post here is something that needs sunshine.  There is no question that Bernie wrote it, but, as with so many things people dig up about all the candidates, it's not necessarily what it seems.  That won't matter to the people who are willing to grab at anything to diminish him.  They'll use it and use it and use it and we'll waste a lot of energy trying to refute it.

    You know where I'm going with this, right?  Lol.

    Michael thought it was good enough to make the front page, but if you really want to delete it, I think you can do that yourself.  I don't know why you would, though.


    by Ramona on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 12:19pm

    Thanks Ramona.  Once I post something, I wont' delete it but I question what I added to the discussion.  In any case, your comment makes me feel better about posting.  Oh and I know where you're going.  Nuf said.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 1:42pm

    I'm glad you posted it - there's nothing wrong with what he said - he wasn't a national politician, he was trying to address how the sexes deal with each other, and the contradictory nature of normal non-PC desires.

    As an example, the "when she says no, it means no" is much more complex than that in ordinary relations - for some it does, for some it might be a signal "try harder, you ain't earned it yet", etc., etc. Not a topic a candidate should even consider discussing, but for humans who are shy, uncertain, mistake-prone, passionate, poor at communicating, suffering from past abuse, & other issues, these discussions may not be straight and simple. And Sanders there was trying to deal with that complexity, and still uphold women's dignity, their struggle for new respect even while possibly containing complex contradictory human desires. Kudos for him, not a place to attack him.


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 3:55pm

    Oh and I'm leaving the Goldwater girl stuff by the wayside Ramona.

    Great but that doesn't change the fact that not only did you try to run with it but you cheered waltree on when he posted his asinine Goldwater girl meme of 40 years as a republican mole in the democratic party. If any Hillary supporter here tried to run with Sanders rape fantasy every other Hillary supporter here, including me, would push back against it. And that, Hal, is the difference between the Sanders supporters and the Hillary supporters, at least here at dagblog.


    by ocean-kat on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 6:20pm

    I have no regrets about mentioning - maybe twice and partly for poetic effect - Clinton's youthful Republicanism.  I made the point.  It's a  minor one but I believe it's relevant and I've explained why.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 8:12pm

    You made a point in the minds of many here. I just don't think it's the point you think you made.


    by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 1:05am

    "but I believe it's relevant and I've explained why." - right, but many of us don't think the political activity of a 13 or 15-year-old is relevant, just like Bernie's 44-year-old thoughts on fantasies and relationships isn't relevant, just like Ted Cruz's freshman year dorm antics aren't relevant, just like most things from ages ago. People develop, move on, and much of this wasn't relevant to begin with.

    Clinging to this doesn't make you much of a "progressive" - you're well on your way to becoming old and embittered, someone who can never let go.

    I bitched enough about Obama over the years of his presidency - but yesterday the courts just whacked his emissions plan, and 2 days ago the IRS gave Karl Rove's group tax-exempt status despite obviously being 90%+ political. I can't much piss on Obama anymore what with this backdrop, and he's a lame duck, and he's gotten some important things through, and some others happened that weren't directly his doing but probably wouldn't have happened so easy without someone a bit progressive in the White House. The landscape of *the last 7 years* has changed me. As did the Bush years. As did the Clinton years. As did the Reagan/Bush years. I can't even see anything very relevant to what I did or thought in the 60's and 70's aside from nostalgia, and the 50's are just too dark to discern.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 1:45am

    ... right, but many of us don't think the political activity of a 13 or 15-year-old is relevant, ...

    This point and others are addressed in another good blog by Corey Robin. 


    by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 8:41am

    Must have missed it - don't see anything re: her childhood political activity.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 9:12am

    Probably right. I think the reference to early politics was in one of the internal links. This is a travel day and I probably will not be back again today to respond but I am, as usual, interested in following the debates here at Dag. 


    by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 9:39am

    I am just looking forward to tonights returns in New Hampshire. Thanks for working for Sanders. 

    I am also glad that Sanders don't have much bad baggage that has to be defended. It keeps the issues front and center. All you have to do is look at the Republican bench to see what a mess they make.  


    by trkingmomoe on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 12:36pm

    Thanks trk. My nails will be gone (figuratively) by the time the returns come in.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 1:43pm

    Bernie will win the NH primary.  You can take it to the. . .uh. . .bank.


    by Ramona on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 1:58pm

    That's a close approximation of what David Axelrod was saying 8 years ago.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 3:05pm

    My nails remain intact.  Quick call wasn't it?


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 8:13pm

    Congratulations to Sanders and Trump, and especially to all the voters in both Iowa and New Hampshire for proving democracy works!


    by barefooted on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 8:33pm

    I really appreciated the fact that Hillary congratulated Bernie at the very beginning of her concession speech.  That was classy.


    by HSG on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 9:40pm

    Yes, it was, though fairly standard in the realm of concession speeches (though Trump ignored Kasich). Sanders was equally classy during his victory rally.


    by barefooted on Tue, 02/09/2016 - 10:17pm