we are stardust's picture

    Wiki-Cables Prove US Pressured UN in Defense of Israel

     

    According to Foreign Policy Magazine, the recently released batch of cables lets us see how far the US used its considerable muscle to neutralize criticism of Israel over Operation Cast Lead, the 2008-2009 ‘war’ that left 1400 Palestinians, including women and children, and 13 Israelis dead.

    An initial investigation commissioned by Ban Ki-Moon and headed by Ian Martin, a top UN ‘troubleshooter’, led to a 184-page report on nine incidents in which the IDF was alleged to have fired on UN personnel and installations, including a school in which three young Palestinians were seeking shelter, and were killed.  On May 5, 2009, the UN released a 28-page summary of the report which concluded that “"reckless disregard for the lives and safety" of civilians in the operation”, citing the school incident specifically.

    Martin recommended a further investigation by the UN into violations of international human rights by the Israeli military, Hamas, and other Palestinian militants.

    Israel denounced the conclusions, saying their own investigations had proven these allegations false.

    Enter UN Ambassador Susan Rice:  Cables indicate that she had gotten wind of the report’s findings on May 4 just before Ban was to report their findings to the media.  She phoned Ban to complain that Martin had gone beyond the scope of his group’s mandate in making a call for further inquiries. 

    Cables show that at first Ban resisted her request, citing the fact that the Board of Inquiry was independent and not subject to interference.  She pressed him to write a cover letter mirroring her concerns; he eventually did, saying that he was receiving help from the Israeli delegation in the effort.  Whaaat?

    At the news conference the next day, Ban openly rejected the report’s conclusion, and essentially said the matter was closed except for Israel being charged over $11 million for damage to UN facilities.  Whaaat?

    Meanwhile the Goldstone group was conducting inquiries which we all know about now, including the fact that he expanded the mandate to include investigating deeds by Hamas, not just Israel; it was published on September 15, 2009.

    “In a Sept. 16 meeting with Rice, Danny Ayalon, Israel's deputy foreign minister, called the Goldstone Report, which had been released the day before, "outrageous," according to a diplomatic cable, adding that it would give Hamas a "free pass" to smuggle weapons into Gaza. Rice agreed, calling the report deeply flawed and biased. But she also saw its release as an opportunity to convince Israel to pursue a U.S.-backed peace process. She asked Ayalon to "help me help you" by embracing the peace process and highlighting Israel's capacity to hold its own troops accountable for possible misconduct. She underscored that the Goldstone Report could be more easily managed if there was positive progress on the peace process, according to the cable. She also advised Israel that it "would be helpful" if it would emphasize its own judicial process and investigations" into the matter.”

    That conversation can be accepted as normal diplomatic back-and-forth on its own, but has some extra heft given the fact that the US and Israel had been privy from the beginning to secret UN documents and deliberations.

    It will not play well, IMO, that the cables show that in a meeting with Avigdor Lieberman a month later, he fanned away a possible peace process, saying:

    "Israel and the United States had a responsibility not to foster illusions. A comprehensive peace was impossible," said Lieberman, who "cited Cyprus as an example that Israel might emulate, claiming that no comprehensive solution was possible, but security, stability and prosperity were."

    The controversial Lieberman is he of the ‘take a loyalty oath to Israel or lose your right to vote’.  He is under investigation for fraud, corruption and money-laundering, and was expected to run against Netanyahu in the next election.

    But to my mind, the absolute capper was this cable, in which Rice offered a veiled and cynical threat to the President of the International Criminal Court Sang-Hyun Song, alleging that the Obama administration was edging closer to becoming a member and that, “How the ICC handles issues concerning the Goldstone Report will be perceived by many in the US as a test for the ICC, as this is a very sensitive matter.”

    Wikipedia does say that “The Obama Administration has re-established a working relationship with the court and has called for continued “positive, principled engagement”.

    In further developments, Palestinians have apparently found enough supporters at the UN to unilaterally declare it a state; Bibi Netanyahu indicates it will be over his dead body, and has been busy lobbying heads of state and UN Ambassadors.  Opinions vary as to whether the General Assembly can accomplish this, or it must go through the Security Council, where the US would likely veto it.

    In order to forestall any momentum toward the same, Eric Cantor and John Boehner have issued Netanyahu an invitation to address a joint session of Congress, of which Bibi said, "Next month I will have the opportunity to air the main parts of our diplomatic and defense policies during my visit in the United States."  Cantor had bragged in November  that he sided with Israel over the Obama administration, especially on Iran and ratcheting up pressure on sanctions, etc.

    Writing at Al Jazeera English, Richard Falk (one of my favorite ME analysts) says that Goldstone’s  partial repudiation of his group’s report has oddly breathed new life into its contents, even as the rest of his group has reaffirmed their support for the entire repot.  He mentions that the US Senate voted unanimously to call on the UN "to reflect the author's repudiation of the Goldstone report's central findings, rescind the report, and reconsider further council actions with respect to its findings" and ask Ban Ki-Moon "to do all in his power to redress the damage to Israel's reputation."

    Falk agrees that the report was slanted, but in Israel’s defense; he explains fully his rationale, including Israel’s failure to allow Palestinians to leave the war zone as refugees.

    From Falk:

    “What is revealed by this senate initiative is the degree of partisanship now present in official Washington, which should - at the very least - lead the Palestinian Authority to seek venues for future negotiations with Israel other than those provided by the US government.”

    [snip]

    “History has funny ways of reversing expectations. Just as most of the world was ready to forget the allegations against Israel from the ghastly 2008-09 attacks on Gaza and move on, Richard Goldstone inadvertently wakes us all up to a remembrance of those morbid events, and in the process, does irreparable damage to his own reputation.

    It is up to persons of conscience to seize this opportunity, and press hard for a more even handed approach to the application of the rule of law in world politics. There is much righteous talk these days at the UN and elsewhere about the 'responsibility to protect,' contending that the Qaddafi threats directed at Libyan civilians justified a No Fly Zone and a full-fledged military intervention from the air undertaken with UN blessings and NATO bombs and missiles. But, not even a whisper of support was provided for the still beleaguered people of Gaza with a No Fly Zone, despite a debilitating unlawful blockade that has lasted almost four years - a severe form of collective punishment that directly violates Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

    This blockade continues to block the entry of building materials needed in Gaza to recover from the devastation caused more than two years ago.”  (my bold)

    I couldn't possibly add to Falk's sentiments..

    Comments

    It is up to persons of conscience to seize this opportunity, and press hard for a more even handed approach to the application of the rule of law in world politics.

    This choice of phrasing perfectly represents the international community's ass-backwards approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Pressure from self-appointed "persons of conscience" has never made Israelis more conciliatory. On the contrary, it has driven them to the right, which is exactly what happened after the Goldstone Report was released, as I described a few weeks ago: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/06/wolraich.goldstone.report/inde....

    It is in the wake of the Goldstone's retraction that the Israeli peacemakers are reawakening. As we write, there is a groundswell in Israel towards recognizing a Palestinian state: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/world/middleeast/20mideast.html.

    If the the U.N. or the International Court were to mount a new campaign critical of Israel, it would smother this nascent movement and push the Israelis back into the beckoning arms of the hardliners who will happlity exploit Israelis' nationalistic impulses.

    When will all these "persons of conscience" give up the fantasy that they can self-righteously browbeat Israel into making peace?


    Hmmm.  I think you may be twisting this blog to suit your CNN piece, which I had read earlier.  I was glad for you that bslev liked it and concurred.

    The main thrust of this diary, however, was not about 'browbeating Israel into making peace', but two show how far the US does in fact run things at the UN, and how the rumors of exactly why Ban Ki-Moon was chosen have been substantiated.  It was said that Ban was very amiably disposed toward the US.

    The letter for the peace initiative is great, but I would call the intellectuals 'people of good conscience', too, and while it was a diplomatic letter, they didn't mince words.

    Now I do wonder how much more weight the 'groundswell of popular opinion' you name has toward changing the Israeli government's mind/s?  A majority of our country believes the wars should end, no cuts should be made to the social safety net programs, the wealthy should be taxed more, etc., yet here we are not being heard.  Maybe in Israel it's different.

    But how much more weight is contained in the House's recent unanimous vote to pressure Obama to NOT support a Palestinian state?   It of course was drafted by AIPAC, and not one voice rose in objection to it.  Now it assumes the Security Council has to vote to admit Palestine; others claim not.  (I'm on the DOES side)

    Falk saw the unintended consequences, too, that more people have been taking notice since Goldstone made his recantation of parts of the report, and they also notice that the other authors stand behind it, and are now aware of the Independent report of the experts or notables....

    I guess I respect your right to believe this is the wrong track in some way, and your 'increasing hard-liner stubborness on both sides' sounds good on paper, but I think that even the 'Boycott, Divest and Sanctions' approach is smart.  It worked in South Africa, but then again they didn't quite so much have the US genuflecting before them, nor did they have AIPAC and their funds.

    And personally, I would rather that all parties would be submitted for inquiries and prosecution, just like the Bank Fraudsters in this county should be.  Hama continues to step on its own tail, though may be doing better just lately.

    Some believe that Muslim extremism being caused by this issue is bogus; I don't really think so.  But I do know that Bibi and Lieberman are doing a disservice not only to the Palestinians, but to Israel as it gets further isolated from the world community.

    And I sincerely hope that a way can be found to inspect the cargo as it's loaded for the May flotilla.  Those folks need relief and supplies badly.

     


    I wasn't reacting to your whole article, which was excellent as usual, just your conclusion.

    Truly painful sanctions of the kind that were applied to South Africa could possibly influence Israel in a positive way, but we're nowhere near those, and the circumstances are so different that I suspect that they will never happen.

    That said, I'm not opposed to efforts to undermine Israel's support internationally by publicizing the plight of the Palestinians. I just think that the toothless international condemnations aimed at influencing Israelis are counterproductive.

    And by the groundswell, I was also thinking of the recent Israeli Peace Initiative drafted by former military and intelligence folks, which was discussed in the same article. That's two big positive proposals within a couple of weeks.


    From your mouth to God's ears, Genghis.  I just wish the US could get out of the way, I guess, unless it can be an honest broker and er...brisk...about what's at stake for all parties.  And isn't the B,D& S movement gaining some traction?   I may live in a bubble...


    Maybe when Israel actually makes peace, Genghis. Sorry, I don't buy the line, "Oh, we were just about to make this or that positive move, but now that you've criticized us for not having done it, we won't." Bullcrap.


    And here I was going around old Dobbin's barn to be so polite!  But yes; it's that. as you say.  Much shorter your way.   Innocent


    I don't believe that I was offering any excuses on behalf of Israel, counterfactually or otherwise. You and the U.N. can condemn Israel as much as you like, but it's simply not accomplishing anything--except to provide Bibi a campaign issue. If you have some evidence to the contrary, please share.


    Truly painful sanctions of the kind that were applied to South Africa could possibly influence Israel in a positive way, but we're nowhere near those, and the circumstances are so different that I suspect that they will never happen.

    You concede that painful sanctions could perhaps change Israeli thinking, but since you think that's unlikely to occur, there's no point in calling for sanctions or even criticizing Israel. "Don't try because you won't succeed." But even the threat of sanctions, remote as they may be, is clearly worrying the Israeli government. There's already a self-imposed no-visit list for top leaders fearful of arrest. Maybe if that list grew?

    Where we differ, Genghis, is that I hold out no hope of an internal change of heart, so I'm less concerned about how Bibi, Lieberman and crew are going to play the latest example of outside interference. Nor do I put any credence in U.S. efforts to influence Israel, which are totally undermined by domestic political calculations. So the rest of the world has a duty to act.

    I just think there is no justification, none, for one nation of 5 million or so to hold captive (and servile) another nation of 5 million generation after generation after generation. That's my bottom line. You use the word "self-righteous" like an epithet. The way power is wielded in the world right now, speaking out individually is the only form of righteousness at our disposal, Genghis. So we're morally obliged to do at least that. There's no guarantee we'll effect any change, but if we don't, I can guarantee we won't.


    Thanks for standing tall on this, Canuck.  For my money, Jimmy Carter had it right: this is an aparteid situation in which one group of people are marginalized and in a way dehumanized by another group, and it needs to change.  How many people throw up their hands in helplessness, claiming it will never change?  That the roots of enmity harken back to Abraham's sons...and will never be resolved.

    To me, this conflict is the Third Rail of American Politics: it's no longer Social Security, as we know only too well now.  I have visited many 'Liberal' sites that proclaim the issue 'off limits', and they mean it.   I think it's sad, and it's risky to blog about it. 

    So while I completely understand that most readers will not weigh in, I do appreciate that you have.  And that American Dreamer wrote beautifully and poignantly of his conflict about the issue on one of Bruce's diaries the other day.

    Those of us who grew up as kids wanting Israel to succeed and thrive have found it almost tortuous to come to realize that Israel's fears of existing at all have outgrown their usefulness over the years is something I try to understand.  God knows our populace is easy to manipulate by fear.  And demagogues can sell 'existential fears' only too easily as we have learned the hard way.

    For most of us, Iran is another great big boogey man, often with little true provocation or true threat, and the more we marginalize and distort who they are as people, the worse their leaders behave.  We sanction them, but turn our gazes away from the American-based multinationals still doing business with them.  Crazy.

    I remember seeing programs about groups tring to effect change the long way, by having Palestinian and Isreali kids doing joint school ventures and learning.  Such lovely thoughts and efforts, but now all these years later we read that the young adults (Sabras, I assume) are even more militantly Zionist than ever.  So sad.

    And yet you're so right: if our country and Israel abdicate in the face of difficulty and history, it's left to us.  And the best we can do is talk about it, and the forces working against solutions.  And pray, if ya got 'em, i guess.

    Anyway; thanks.


    So the rest of the world has a duty to act.

    Ac, what do you mean by act?

    The "world," but which I assume that you mean the U.S., Europe (and Canada), cannot impose peace at will. It can only pressure or persuade the Israelis (and the Palestinians) to make peace.

    Any attempt at pressure will have the prima facie effect of undermining persuasion by provoking a defensive and nationalistic response from the Israeli people. Therefore, pressure is only productive if it is severe enough to be effective. If not, it will be counterproductive.

    There are four ways that the "world" might pressure Israel:

    1) Military action. I don't think that you're recommending this.

    2) Sanctions. As I wrote, these might work if they seriously impacted Israel's economy. If not, they would be useless. While Likud makes a big fuss over every criticism or threat of sanctions, I read it as defensiveness rather than anxiety. They certainly have not been anxious enough to change their practices.

    3) International court indictments. Useless. Israel would refuse to hand over its citizens. Hence counterproductive.

    4) International condemnation. Useless, as demonstrated many times over. Hence counterproductive.

    So of these means of pressure, sanctions are really the only option. I have no objection to you calling for sanctions, but I think that effective sanctions against Israel are highly unlikely.

    When you lack the power to coerce, persuasion is the only option. And frankly it was persuasion, in the form of the Oslo accords, that brought the Israelis to the table more sincerely than any number of U.N. condemnations or weak-assed sanctions by European labor unions.

    If you have some other magic power of effective pressure against Israel, then I encourage you by all means to apply it. If not, then please recognize that there will only be peace if the Israeli people (and the Palestinains) support peace and that clumsy attempts to browbeat them into supporting peace will only succeed in pushing them the other way.

    PS Self-righteous is an epithet. The word connotes a sanctimonious blowhard, of which there are plenty to go around on both sides of this dispute. It's quite possible to be morally correct and still be a sanctimonious blowhard.


    Hey Genghis: I wrote a reply last night, lost it with a hasty mouse click, and couldn't bring myself to try reconstituting it (never works, anyway). Here's what I hope is a succinct version:

    I still reject your "hasn't worked=useless=counterproductive" formula. Also your defence of "persuasion vs. pressure." Persuasive arguments (and the outline of peace deal) have been on the table for decades. Promising proposals (Yossi Beilin's Geneva Accord, the Arab League Initiative) keep popping up, but the political will is lacking. The one example you cite of persuasion succeeding (the Oslo Accord) was nothing of the kind. It resulted directly from the five-year First Intifada. If that wasn't pressure, what is?

    When I say "the rest of the world," I'm certainly not talking about the U.S. and Canadian governments; they are total enablers. I'm talking about people of conscience in whatever country they're in. If by speaking out they can drag their leaders to act, that's fine. Absent that pressure, governments always take the easy way out. European govts. (even on the right) seem most susceptible to public pressure. But even when you can't reverse policy, you can moderate the worst excesses.

    By "act," I wasn't really thinking of the list of government/official actions you list. Rather, individual actions can range from blogging, e-mailing representatives and signing on to J Street petitions, to reporting from within the occupation, standing in front of a demolition bulldozer and taking part in a Gaza aid flotilla. The latter act, at deadly cost, did produce some positive changes. (My own contribution, obviously, is way at the lower end of that scale.)

    In a pinch, you can overthrow your government. Reports suggest Mubarak's policy of enforcing Israel's Gaza stranglehold may be about to end. The so-called "Arab awakening" is also breathing new support and urgency into the PA's drive for formal statehood. And forcing the U.S. to show its colors is a good thing. If it's going to be a stumbling block, better to expose it and weaken its Mideast influence.

    Speaking of which, I don't want to downplay the courage of Israel activists who have spoken out:

    http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE73K6R620110421

    Defying the prevailing mood of their country strikes me as unimaginably hard, but people like Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, David Grossman consistently do. Still, they remain the tiniest of minorities; I don't see their stand, or that of the former officials last week, as a "groundswell" for peace. Much less do I see it having any link to the supposed Goldstone "recantation." That's just wishful thinking.

    That's the "succinct" version. But "sanctimonious blowhard?" That's harsh, pal. Sanctimonious implies hypocrisy, and I think I've been pretty upfront about where I stand. Blowhard -- OK, I'll cop to that.


    Dear Person of Conscience (as opposed to we other folk):

    You write that Richard Falk is one of your favorite ME commentators.  Really?  Notwithstanding that even the UN Secretary-General condemns Falk's assertions that the American government has covered up what really happened on 9/11?  I think the guy is just weird.  I guess that's why I ain't a person of conscience.

    http://blog.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/s-Hillel-Neuer-re-Richard-Falk.pdf

    Bruce

     

     


    A wee bit snotty of you to imply I think I'm one of the few persons of conscience, Bruce.  You usually do better than that.

    Yes, I have really liked reading Falk's pieces on Libya, but I didn't know he was a special rapporteur for Palestine, and the letter made no sense to me.  What was he accused of covering up?  Do you think the 9/11 Commission point was at all thorough?

    Nice of you to stop by.


    Thanks Star.  Didn't mean to be snotty at all--just a bit tongue-in-cheek.  And you're right that sometimes I do better.  I guess I know quite a few mooks whom I consider to be "people of conscience" even though they believe that the UN Human Rights Council is absolutely devoid of credibility in this area.  And I actually think that's a pretty important point to accept--that people of conscience can have fundamental disagreements on substance--before one can really begin to contribute to what it takes to promote a peaceful resolution of the I-P conflict.  As to Falk, I don't care to sidetrack any further. Anyone can all look up what he has said about 9/11 on the internets if he or she so desires, and draw conclusions acccordingly.   

     


    Thanks for walking it back a bit, Bruce.  I agree with much of what you just said if I understood it.  ;o)

    I will look up Falk on 9-11 stuff; I tend not to read much Truther stuff on the grounds that even if there were some conspiracy, I am simply not emotionally equipped to handle it.  I said as much on another website recently, and was told with wide-eyed seriousness that I had to be willing.  Ack!

    And Good Passover to you and your family.


    It doesn't always seem right, but God works in mysterious ways.
     
    I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States . . . [W]e have to show that we are inextricably entwined, that as a nation we have been blessed because of our relationship with Israel, and if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play.
     
     That is from a person who tens of thousands [Hundreds of thousands?] of people voted for more than once to represent them in the Congress of the United States of America.

    http://minnesotaindependent.com/55061/bachmann-america-cursed-by-god-if-...


    Arrrggh!  You had me um...nervous there, Lulu.  I hate it that the Christianists have teamed up so cynically with AIPAC on Holy Land issues in order to speed us toward the Rapture.  As though anyone without being psychotic could interpret Revelations' (maybe John's?) bad acid dreams.

    I get those CUFI ads on my screen a lot; seems like they know stardust uses those buzzwords here and there, and I must be ripe for the pickin' for donations.  Luckily, there is some axiom that says "you can't get blood from a stone" or something. 

    How are you?  You have been Seldom Seen lately.  Missed you, hombre.   ;o)

     


    Thanks for the emphasis here and your analysis. I've been away from the blogs for a week or so. When I check in, you're the first person I read.


    You won't tell the nice folks how much I pay you, will you, Watt?    Innocent

    (Thank you.)


    This is a site (the site?) for the persuasive Boycot, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel. 

    And this is Naomi Klein speaking about the tactic.  She addresses some objections that she hears from people leery about going with these tactics, but this first one speaks to Genghis's point:

    "1. Punitive measures will alienate rather than persuade Israelis. The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement." It has failed utterly. Since 2006 Israel has been steadily escalating its criminality: expanding settlements, launching an outrageous war against Lebanon and imposing collective punishment on Gaza through the brutal blockade. Despite this escalation, Israel has not faced punitive measures—quite the opposite. The weapons and $3 billion in annual aid that the US sends to Israel is only the beginning. Throughout this key period, Israel has enjoyed a dramatic improvement in its diplomatic, cultural and trade relations with a variety of other allies. For instance, in 2007 Israel became the first non–Latin American country to sign a free-trade deal with Mercosur. In the first nine months of 2008, Israeli exports to Canada went up 45 percent. A new trade deal with the European Union is set to double Israel's exports of processed food. And on December 8, European ministers "upgraded" the EU-Israel Association Agreement, a reward long sought by Jerusalem.*

    It is in this context that Israeli leaders started their latest war: confident they would face no meaningful costs. It is remarkable that over seven days of wartime trading, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange's flagship index actually went up 10.7 percent. When carrots don't work, sticks are needed."


    While I agree with Genghis that sanctions will not move Israelis and Palestinians towards peace, I go farther and submit that Naomi Klein and others who support BDS support an evil double standard when it comes to Israel.  Klein in her statement supporting BDS assumes as many do, facts about Israel's criminality that lack foundation and that are not in evidence.  

    I believe in justice the way we like to think we mete in out in the United States, with equal standards applied to all nations, i.e, including Israel.  So assertions that Israel is an apartheid state get my dander up but, in any event, belie a double standard that, again, given historical predicate, is misguided at best.  Those who choose not to accept such a view as being in the realm of reasonableness might not care about what someone like me thinks, or might choose to think that I support apartheid against the Palestinians.  And to such folks, I would say get in line with everyone else.

    To those who claim that Israel is an apartheid state, I would only point out that while, in Israel proper, there is discrimination in fact against Israelis of Palestinian descent, and while there has been discrimination against the 700,000 plus North African and Middle Eastern Jewish refugees since Israel's inception, it is a democratic state, and there are Palestinian MKs in the Knesset and no legal discrimination against Israel's non-Jewish residents.  It is discrimination of a like-kind that we see in Western European nations such as France and Germany, and of course it is discrimination of a kind we see in the United States and, perhaps still in Canada.  

    On the other hand, there is discrimination against Palestinians as a matter of law in Lebanon, in Syria, in Jordan and perhaps every single Arab nation in the Middle East.  I could play internet tag and give citations about what it means to be, for example a Palestinian in Lebanon, but I would suggest that anyone who would call Israel an apartheid state should already know about how cruelly Palestinians are treated by their Arab brothers and sisters.  If that is an unknown by those who point to apartheid Israel by anyone who is interested or obsessed with this conflict, then shame on you I say, with due respect, because I submit that words have meaning in general, and particular words like apartheid have unambiguous meaning.

    I recently told a colleague on here, a good and valued contributor, who felt shame about Israel because he is a Jew, that I consider it important to try to understand the factual landscape, or the daily events as they occur in the Middle East, and I stand by that.  I believe that standing behind platitudes and assertions of criminality, apartheid and other labels is both wrong and unhelpful.

    I do try to stay engaged, and I offer a recent column by J.J. Goldberg (not Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic), about the situation in Israel right now.  Like Genghis, and like me frankly, Goldberg is encouraged by the esteemed group of mainstream Israelis who have presented a new peace proposal very similar to the Clinton Parameters.  Goldberg points out that Olmert and Abbas were moving towards a similar agreement that was hijacked by Olmert's personal corruption charges and the election of Netanyahu.  While Abbas denies that he ever agreed to such terms and while Wikileaks suggests otherwise, the point is that there is a settlement to be had.  

    I recommend reading J.J. Goldberg's editorial.  The Forward has a century-plus long tradition in the Jewish community, and guided people like my Dad and his parents and so many others in their paths to assimilation and away from the world they came from that was wiped out by the Nazis.  Now, led by Goldberg, it pulls no punches when it comes to Israeli policies.

    http://forward.com/articles/137177/

    I also recommend, as I frequently did at the TPM Cafe where I felt that the conversation had become so polluted, that people check out Dan Fleschler's blog, Realisticdove.org, for what I believe offers the most productive discussion about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the blogosphere.  I know that Flavius is also very partial to bitterlemons.org, which I go to now and then as well.  Dan Fleschler also wrote a book called the [Transforming America's] Israel Lobby, with a glowing forward by MJ Rosenberg (whom I don't admire at all but who expresses views (not behavior) similar to many folks on the left), which I also recommend, particularly to those who cling to the notion that the Lobby has extraordinary or exclusive control over Middle Eastern affairs.

    Finally, star, whom I admire and who really is an excellent writer and a valued contributor, wrote above that there are many progressive or liberal websites that won't touch this issue as a matter of policy.  I don't know the websites about which star speaks, and would be interested to know more about that.  

    Bruce

    P.S.  Added bonus question.  Is it appropriate to question why allegations about Israeli criminality with respect to the war in Gaza are different in kind than similar more muted allegations of criminality, in particular in the American, Canadian and European left, with respect to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq?   Is it fair to ask if there is a double standard when it comes to the only country in the world that has a Jewish majority?  Why or why not?


    Thanks, Bruce.  I only have a couple of minutes right now; I need to get outside to do a little work before it might actually rain. 

    Many of us try try try try to make the case that our nation is so very involved in criminal deeds in the wars.  And that Obama's choice not to investigate and prosecute was pragmatic--of course he has expanded on so many of the most criminal endeavors, all in the name of the WOT, but all of which is marginalizing US, too.  And it's precisely why I can't think the US will ever join the ICC, Obama's clever wording aside.  And why I thought Rice's language of 'we're edging closer to joining' was particularly craven.  Someone might be able to offer a counterfactual; if there is one, I haven't heard it.

    Meanwhile, I saw this piece up from the President of Turkey; I'd always imagined their close relationship with Israel might make them valuable in negotitated settlement.  I disagree with a few of his contentions, but that might just be quibbling.

    While hunting up the Times piece, I ran into a link about Egypt possible opening up the border to Gaza; don't have time to read it now.  Back soon as I can.

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/04/israeli-ambassador-leaves-cairo-amid-s...


    My apologies, but I was unable to edit this before I got a reply.  I misspelled Dan Fleshler name in my comment.  Dan is a great guy, hosts realisticdove.org, and is the author of The Israel Lobby.

    [Fleschler, fixed - df]


    Actually, it's Transforming America's Israel Lobby -- not to be confused with the earlier The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by the notorious Mearsheimer and Walt.


    Thanks Ack!


    I did re-scan the Goldberg piece; I'd read it when you gave it to AD the other day.  It's pretty good, but I tend to get confused with de facto sarcasm; when to insert the implied double-negatives, when not to; all that.

    MJ, I think, is less the former reformed-AIPC-ite than he used to be; I've read a couple things he's written for AJE that were better,  ;o)

    While I was in the garden, I was thinking about Israel's health and vialbility as both a Democracy and a good neighbor, and I remembered a piece I saw at the Asia times yesterday, and I just finished it.  Ira Chernus at CU writing about the myths of Israel's insecurity (I know, I know...)  ;o)

    But in it he speaks of the issue of 'the illegitimacy of Israel' as a circulating meme, and he says it actually traces to an Israeli think tank that got it half-right:

    "Myth Number 3: Israel's existence is threatened by worldwide efforts to delegitimize the Jewish state. Early in 2010, military intelligence chief Amos Yadlin told the Knesset, Israel's parliament, that the country was not "suffering from terror or from an immediate military threat" - only to warn of a new peril: "The Palestinian Authority is encouraging the international arena to challenge Israel's legitimacy."

    The "delegitimization" alarm was first sounded by an influential Israeli think tank and then spread like wildfire through the nation's political and media ranks.

    There are shreds of truth in it. There have always been people who saw the Jewish state, imposed on indigenous Palestinians, as illegitimate. Until recently, however, Israelis seemed to pay them little heed. Now, they are deemed an "existential threat", as Yadlin explained, only because the old claims of "existential threat" via violence have grown unbelievable even to the Israeli military (though not to the government's American supporters).

    It's also true that challenges to Israel's legitimacy are growing rapidly around the world and that the specter of becoming a "pariah state" does pose a danger. The head of that think tank got it half-right when he warned that Israel's "survival and prosperity" depend on its relations with the world, "all of which rely on its legitimacy". Survival? No. After all, being a pariah state doesn't have to be existence threatening, as North Korea and Myanmar have proved.

    But prosperity? That's at least possible. When the Israelis complain about "delegitimization", they focus most on the boycott/divestment/sanctions (BDS) movement, which aims not to eliminate the state of Israel, but to use economic pressure to end Israel's occupation and economic strangulation of Palestinian lands. (Nor is there any real evidence to back up the charge that this is some vast conspiracy coordinated by the Palestinian Authority.)

    Were Israel to start behaving by accepted international moral norms, the BDS movement would fade from the scene quickly enough, ending the crisis of "delegitimization" - just as the rockets from Gaza might well cease. But here's the reality of this moment: the only genuine threat to Israel's security comes from its own oppressive policies, which are the fuel propelling the BDS movement.

    So far, however, "effects on the Israeli economy are marginal", according to a popular Israeli newspaper. The BDS campaign, it reports, "has been far more damaging when it comes to the negative image that it spreads". A growing number of foreign governments are criticizing Israel, and some already recognize an actual Palestinian state. In diplomatic terms, Israel's legitimacy rests on the good will of its sole dependable ally, the United States.

    More than any military need, that political need offers the US powerful leverage in moving toward a settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian crisis. The triple-stranded myth of Israel's insecurity, however, makes the use of such leverage virtually impossible for Washington. Israel's president put his country's needs plainly in March 2010: "[Israel] must forge good relations with other countries, primarily the United States, so as to guarantee political support in a time of need." So far, the US has continued to offer its strong support, even though President Obama knows, as he recently told American Jewish leaders, that "Israel is the stronger party here, militarily, culturally, and politically. And Israel needs to create the context for [peace] to happen."

    But what if the American public knew the facts that Obama acknowledged? What if every solemn reference to Israel's "security needs" were greeted not with nodding heads but with the eye-rolling skepticism it deserves? What if Israel's endless excesses and excuses - its claims that the occupation of the West Bank and the economic strangulation of Gaza are necessary "for the sake of security" - were regularly scoffed at by most Americans?

    It's hard to imagine the Obama administration, or any American administration, keeping up a pro-Israel tilt in the face of such public scorn. Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder."


    And as far as referrals to the ICC, a lot of us would like to see Hama held accountable also.

    That's all I got; break's over.


    Different Goldbergs Star.  I linked to J.J. Goldberg above, and Jeffrey Goldberg last week.


    Someone else (maybe at Mondoweiss?) linked to JJ's; I know I'd read it. 

    One more thing.  I read your paragraphs denying second-class-citizenship for Palestinians; I've just read too much, and seen too many videos to think that it's true.

    On the sites disallowing I/P diaries: Doucudharma, Fireflydreaming, (and a compilation site for those two and more--),  I think Kos; there was a discussion at correntewire (a site full of folks banned from FDL about it; I forget some of the rest just now.  The theory was, of course, that it led to too many flame-wars with zero probability of resolution.  I don't know if that's it or not.


    I can't get cut-and-paste to work here again today, but your mentioning that 'there is no legal discrimination of Israel's non-residents' has been making my head ache.  I did not, did not, did not, want this diary to go there, but I couldn't help but go do some reading at electronicicintifada and occupiedpalestine.  The last two days news is very bad.  I won't go on about it, but yes, some of the laws, and some of IOF actions (bulldozers??) are clearly designed to undermine Palestinian rights.

    And that I don't know all the ways Palestinians are treated in other nations is true; if that means shame on me, I guess I'll have to taket it, Bruce.

    I really do try to understand your positions; you're a good man; but in the end...I can't.  And now I need to go clear my heart and head from the reading I've done, and the videos I've watched.

    I dunno; I wish I knew how to make some sort of prayer or hope for peace around the world; started first with Bruce Cockburn's Tell Me What Is the Soul of a Man?; came back to this:

     


    And this, and I hope the sound of freedom comes our way, too:


     "Klein in her statement supporting BDS assumes as many do, facts about Israel's criminality that lack foundation and that are not in evidence." 

     I know with absolute certainty that forces of the United States of America have performed criminal acts in the prosecution of their foreign policy and their many wars. I believe with very high confidence that Israel has also done so. I cannot think of a country which has ever been a major player which I would not include in that category. Would you say that my beliefs in this area have been formed without evidence? Many countries are demonized daily for their actions. Israel is not some special abused case because it gets criticized.

    "I believe in justice the way we like to think we mete in out in the United States, with equal standards applied to all nations, i.e, including Israel."

    You may like to think, and hope others will believe, that we mete out justice with equal standards to all nations, including Israel, but I think that idea lacks foundation and assumes facts that are not in evidence. Actually, there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

     "I believe that standing behind platitudes and assertions of criminality, apartheid and other labels is both wrong and unhelpful."

    I do not know about platitudes, but standing behind assertions of criminality, when those assertions are correct, is right whether it is helpful or unhelpful and even when it is unlikely to make one bit of difference regarding actions in the future. 

    "P.S.  Added bonus question.  Is it appropriate to question why allegations about Israeli criminality with respect to the war in Gaza are different in kind than similar more muted allegations of criminality, in particular in the American, Canadian and European left, with respect to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq?"

     Have you really missed the widespread questioning of the legitimacy and legality of actions by the U.S. and the "Coalition of the Willing"? Do you think that Israel is the only country that gets criticized for its actions? Maybe the allegations being of "a different kind than similar more muted allegations" somehow explains what you mean, but, as it is stated, the meaning of the question is not at all clear to me .  If what you mean is that it is not appropriate to question Israeli criminality for some or any reason then just say so.

      "Is it fair to ask if there is a double standard when it comes to the only country in the world that has a Jewish majority? "

     It is fair to ask anything, imho. You have stated quite clearly that you see a double standard but seem to think that it hurts Israel. I think that to the extent that there is a double standard, in our perception of other nations and our reaction to the actions of other nations, that that double standard goes very heavily in Israel's favor here in the U.S.  I also think that it is completely OK, and is easily understandable, that you have an emotional attachment to Israel and to Jewish people worldwide. It shows that you are subject to extremely common human nature.  But,does your head explode when the Turks deny the Armenian genocide?  Israel is not "special" for me. Israel, to me, is a foreign country, and as a people Jews are no more or less special, to me, than any other group of human beings which I try to have due respect and concern for. I hope that it is OK by you, or at least that it does not set you off too badly, that I criticize Israel when I think that criticism is due [whether I criticize other countries in the same breath or not] and that I criticize policies of my own government relating to Israel and speculate as to why those policies come about when I think other policies would better serve the interests of the U.S. and especially when I think those policies are demonstrations of a hurtful double standard held and often acted upon by my country, the country that tops my personal hierarchy of countries  which I hope to see prosper and endure in an honorable way.
     I also see merit in the argument made by some that the uncritical support of Israel by the U.S., no matter their action, has prolonged the non-resolution of the I/P conflict to the detriment of both sides.


    Code Below: bslev in red, lulu in italics and, bslev reply in regular type:

    "Klein in her statement supporting BDS assumes as many do, facts about Israel's criminality that lack foundation and that are not in evidence." 

     I know with absolute certainty that forces of the United States of America have performed criminal acts in the prosecution of their foreign policy and their many wars. I believe with very high confidence that Israel has also done so. I cannot think of a country which has ever been a major player which I would not include in that category. Would you say that my beliefs in this area have been formed without evidence? Many countries are demonized daily for their actions. Israel is not some special abused case because it gets criticized.

    I don't claim that Americans or Israelis have not engaged in criminal conduct in the prosecution of foreign policy or wars.  I believe that the United States is capable of investigating itself, as do I believe that the Israelis are capable of investigating themselves, and I also believe that some of those investigations were probably not done as well as they could have been.  As I read Klein, she justifies her belief that Israel should be the subject of a worldwide BDS campaign based in large measure on the criminality of Israel.  If I have properly read her, I don't believe she can point to evidence to explain the unique threshold that Israel has attained in this area to warrant such a tactic being applied against the Israeli people.  I don't see calls, thankfully, for a worldwide BDS campaign against the American people for the acts of its government.


    "I believe in justice the way we like to think we mete in out in the United States, with equal standards applied to all nations, i.e, including Israel."

    You may like to think, and hope others will believe, that we mete out justice with equal standards to all nations, including Israel, but I think that idea lacks foundation and assumes facts that are not in evidence. Actually, there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    I was addressing the standing of the UNHRC to conduct an investigation of Israel.  You swerve to American foreign policy and what you and many others perceive as a lack of even-handedness with respect to Israel.  While it doesn't address my point, I believe you and others make a point that warrants a response, and that's why I recommended a book in my comment that I believe is the most comprehensive analysis of the so-called Israel Lobby that I have come across. 

     "I believe that standing behind platitudes and assertions of criminality, apartheid and other labels is both wrong and unhelpful."

    I do not know about platitudes, but standing behind assertions of criminality, when those assertions are correct, is right whether it is helpful or unhelpful and even when it is unlikely to make one bit of difference regarding actions in the future. 

    OK.

    "P.S.  Added bonus question.  Is it appropriate to question why allegations about Israeli criminality with respect to the war in Gaza are different in kind than similar more muted allegations of criminality, in particular in the American, Canadian and European left, with respect to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq?"

    Have you really missed the widespread questioning of the legitimacy and legality of actions by the U.S. and the "Coalition of the Willing"? Do you think that Israel is the only country that gets criticized for its actions? Maybe the allegations being of "a different kind than similar more muted allegations" somehow explains what you mean, but, as it is stated, the meaning of the question is not at all clear to me .  If what you mean is that it is not appropriate to question Israeli criminality for some or any reason then just say so.

    First, I don't see widespread, if any, calls for a UNHRC investigation into the conduct of the United States or any of its allies for anything.  Neither do I make such calls.  Second, should you choose to suggest that somehow I don't think it's appropriate to question Israeli criminality, then so be it.


    "Is it fair to ask if there is a double standard when it comes to the only country in the world that has a Jewish majority? "

     It is fair to ask anything, imho. You have stated quite clearly that you see a double standard but seem to think that it hurts Israel. I think that to the extent that there is a double standard, in our perception of other nations and our reaction to the actions of other nations, that that double standard goes very heavily in Israel's favor here in the U.S.  I also think that it is completely OK, and is easily understandable, that you have an emotional attachment to Israel and to Jewish people worldwide. It shows that you are subject to extremely common human nature.  But,does your head explode when the Turks deny the Armenian genocide?  Israel is not "special" for me. Israel, to me, is a foreign country, and as a people Jews are no more or less special, to me, than any other group of human beings which I try to have due respect and concern for. I hope that it is OK by you, or at least that it does not set you off too badly, that I criticize Israel when I think that criticism is due [whether I criticize other countries in the same breath or not] and that I criticize policies of my own government relating to Israel and speculate as to why those policies come about when I think other policies would better serve the interests of the U.S. and especially when I think those policies are demonstrations of a hurtful double standard held and often acted upon by my country, the country that tops my personal hierarchy of countries  which I hope to see prosper and endure in an honorable way.

    I also see merit in the argument made by some that the uncritical support of Israel by the U.S., no matter their action, has prolonged the non-resolution of the I/P conflict to the detriment of both sides.

    I have given my reasons for why I believe that most of the world, and much of the American left  and the so-called left applies a double standard to Israel.  I stand by that and nothing that you write above addresses the reasons I give for my belief.


    Cheers


     

    It seems I'm my own thread-killer.  Who wouldda guessed?

    Since that's the case, I guess I'll let myself go a little.  I'd shied away from this video as being possibly too far a bridge for folks to see a parallel to the Palestinians.  Or us, as most of us are  becoming  third-worlders more and more each day; it's easier to relate to the Indian Wars never ending. Please hear the fragment of Chief Joseph's plea/prayer spoken by John Trudell at the end...I think it will resonate for some of you who feel afraid and angry about the future that's being written for us, especially knowing it's completely avoidable but for the assholes who want too much and don't give a fig for our well-being.

    It's up to us now to create our future, to fight back, and we need to fight for our brothers and sisters around the planet who are in similar situations.

    Bruce mentioned 'those of you who are obsessed with this situation', or something similar.  I've considered the importance of my I/P concern all afternoon, and realized that over and above the over-arching Human Rights issue, it's because OUR GOVERNMENT IS SO COMPLICIT IN IT. 

    Now, many of you have maybe figured that out before, and if so, I wish you would have short-handed it to me.  But I'm glad now that I see it so clearly now. 

    NOT IN OUR NAMES, YOU MASTERS OF OUR FATES AND THEIRS!  I'm broken and tired and bereft of hope some days; I can't demonstrate in the streets any longer; but I can rage against the machine as long as my fingers can clack keys. 

    Shoot; this is embarassing; I made my own self weep.  Guess if I can be Red Skelton and laugh hardest at my own jokes, it's okay to be the Red Skelton of pathos.  ;o)

    Fuck it; here's Bruce.  Hope he makes you cry:

     

    Here's Bruce:

     

     


    Hey Star:

    Why do you think you killed this thread?  There aren't a heckuva lot of comments today anywhere.  Thanks for the tunes and stuff, and hopefully I won't cry when I watch the video you post.  On the other hand, I tend to tear up for Hallmark commercials, so I'm kind of an easy mark.  You're a star around here in more than name.

    Bruce

     


    It seemed like forever since anyone commented...  I often have a knack of killing threads; must be something I say.  ;o)

    Damn; cry if you got 'em; tears are great windshield wipers of the soul, IMO.  You are kind to say the other, Bruce.  Made me tear up again for sure; I'm an easy mark, too.  And I have a rule that no one near me cries alone.   ;o)

    Thanks for the good conversation, seriously.


    Yes, you have the black thumb of blog gardens. Our Lady of the Wilted Vine. Perhaps should switch to a different brand of strychnine. Of course what you don't mention is like a black widow, you're killing off your readers as well. Fortunately they grow back or still seem in plenty supply. Nothing to cry about - someone needs to thin the herd.

     


    See how you are?  I happen to mention just one time here on the boards (well...maybe twice...) my severe antipathy to (Arrrrggg; ish!) Spidees, and here ya go likening me to one!  Have you no shame, sir?  Have you no decency?

    (Stardust instantly regrets playing the straight-man in the comedy act...)

     

     


    Sure I have shame and decency - how much ya wanna pay for 'em? Come real cheap, hardly ever used.

    (Better straight-hominid than straight-arachnid. Spiderwoman? A sequel still to be made)


    Nah; keep em; they might come in handy one day at your daughters' weddings.  Help ya keep the barbs to a minimum acceptable level during the toasts.  (Damn; make us a vidoe of those, won't you?) 

    As for being a herd-thinning reader-killer, you're right.  I thunk it was maybe my breath, not my musings, but didn't want to say so.  But since it's just us here....    ;o)


    Well that's a callout for Bwakfat for sure. 


    Latest Comments