MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
We are tribal
South Bend, Indiana, mayor and 2020 presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg condemned the Trump administration’s embrace of “peak white identity politics” in a speech Saturday, warning of a brewing “crisis of belonging” across the nation.
Speaking at a fundraiser in Houston for the LGBTQ advocacy group Human Rights Campaign, the Democrat said such politics are “designed to drive apart people with common interests.” He urged Americans instead to find unity in knowing that each of them is unique.
Buttigieg pointed to the potential for “the beginning of a new form of American solidarity” in which the country realizes “that the one thing we do have in common may be the challenge of belonging in a society that sees us for what makes us all different.”
“I’m not talking about pretending that there are equivalencies between the different patterns of exclusion in this country,” he added. “I may be a part of the LGBTQ community, but being a gay man doesn’t even tell me what it’s like to be a trans woman of color in that same community let alone an undocumented mother of four or a disabled veteran or a displaced auto worker.”
Emphasizing the differences between minorities and white populations in access to health care, employment and citizenship, Buttigieg added, “When you do not belong, it doesn’t just put you in a bad mood, it puts you in a different country.”
Tribes are the natural state of things. Tribes can work together to accomplish goals. The Boston Red Sox won the baseball championship. The players who attended a White House celebration were virtually all white. Those who stayed home were all black and Latino.
The Red Sox though tribally divided achieved success.
Ross Douthat has an interesting column noting how traditions have changed over the years.
Of course we Americans have reinvented our traditions repeatedly over the years — going from a Protestant religious consensus to a “Judeo-Christian” one, from an Anglo-Saxon settler nation to a 20th-century melting pot.
But since the crackups of the 1960s, and especially lately, we have felt as divided over our national story as the factions of Dreyfus-Affair-era France — with polarized narratives of Who We Are that don’t seem reconcilable, with partisan identities overriding communal ties, and without a common understanding of Americanness that doesn’t just seem like a thin proceduralism, or the self-serving claims of the white man’s past.
Tribes force us to alter traditions. It is our national creed. We will get through this.
Comments
What I don't get is how you don't get what he is saying is anti-tribal. That being able to re-invent one oneself in America and leaving the old country tribe behind is the essence of anti-tribalism. That lectures about being an individual and individualism is also anti-tribal.
What I don't get is that you don't seem to get that unifying a diverse mixture of people under a Constitution instead of a country that defines as an ethnic nationality (or an inherited religion) is being anti-tribal.
That diversity is the opposite of tribalism! That tribal people don't mix, they are not diverse, they stay with their tribe....
It is most aggravating that you talk in a different language about this than most people. You therefore don't even communicate what you really intend to communicate. It's a straw man argument writ huge. You haven made up in your head that something that means tribal to you is a good thing and it is the same thing as identity politics. But it's something--god knows what, because it's all confused--not as most people define either word.
by artappraiser on Sun, 05/12/2019 - 10:12pm
You are the one in a bubble.
He is talking about recognizing the differences. Recognizing tribes. I gave the Red Sox as an obvious example of tribes working together. Your statement that tribes don’t mix is simply not true. We see tribes interacting everyday.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 05/12/2019 - 11:04pm
Buttigieg also spoke about “identity politics,” a phrase he said was used “usually to wave away our attention from some of the things that make our lived experiences different, and the political implications of those differences.”
Buttigieg said that the Trump administration has “mastered the practice of the most divisive form of such politics, peak White identity politics, designed to drive apart people with common interests.”
Edit to add
Castro is the only candidate leading with a black specific message, reparations. Every other candidate is talking a more universal message. You posted about Warren heading to Trump supporting areas. Biden is leading in polling among young black voters. He is beating Harris and Booker among young black voters. Where is the black identity politics?
https://morningconsult.com/2019/05/09/biden-builds-support-with-young-black-voters-but-will-it-hold/
2nd Edit to add:
Another example of tribes interacting. There is a group of left-wing gun owners who show up at events to help protect Black Lives Matter from Neo-Nazis
https://www.newsweek.com/redneck-revolt-left-wing-activists-protect-minorities-guns-760923
Kamu Bell has a segment with them on his “United Shades of America” tonight. The identity politics problem is a white problem.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 05/12/2019 - 11:43pm
Biden also has the support of older black voters
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/07/us/politics/joe-biden-black-voters-south-carolina.html
So-called black identity politics is not a factor.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 12:14am
Pretty sure any sports club that sees itself as tribes working together in 2019 isn't winning any championships. A team is a team. The only tribe part is they play different positions. Whether some go to the White House or not is largely irrelevant to their professional comportment and mental attitude, though presumably such a thing could divide a team irreperably into (unwinning) face ions (factions - thanks, spell check)
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 2:09am
The White House decision is proof positive that different tribes can work together to achieve a goal. The Red Sox manager was outspoken in his dislike for Trump. The team is coming back to a team that had political fissures exposed. They are in the middle of the pack in the AL East this season.
There was an excellent discussion about this on AM Joy Saturday
https://www.msnbc.com/am-joy/watch/red-sox-manager-skips-white-house-visit-citing-puerto-rico-response-59452485893
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 7:15am
So if they show up for crappy hamburgers that makes them 1 tribe, while those who skip it are another tribe?
How banal. Hey, I like some Woody Allen movies - my wife hates him totally. Guess we're 2 different tribes. A wonder we didn't see these big fissures long ago, amazing we can even share a bed.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 8:14am
The Red Sox is not a racial or ethnic tribe!!! It's the opposite! A perfect example of a bunch of diverse people working under a agreed upon team just like what Fukuyama argues is the right way to go!
You are talking positively about the the opposite of tribalism and racial and ethnic identity politics!
You don't understand the definition of the words you use!
First of all Mayor Pete is basically dissing the ramping up of Identity Politics and you say you often say the opposite, that its great, but only oppressed minorities can use it and you get to be the judge about who.
Bu actually t I don't think you do. Because you make no sense when you talk about this stuff, you mix apples and oranges and use the words differently than standard definition. You are arguing with phantoms, more than half the time in your arguments you are agreeing with what Fukuyama and Obama and others say about tribalism but you swear up and down you disagree with them or make up stories to explain why they are saying something they are not saying
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 2:49am
Furthermore, the Trump bitter whypipple identity politics tribe are a minority along with you other bitter people that like tribalism and fighting for pieces of the pie:
MOST AMERICANS EXPRESS POSITIVE VIEWS OF COUNTRY’S GROWING RACIAL AND ETHNIC DIVERSITY
The only problem about the Trump bitter whypipple identity politics tribe is that they live in areas where their votes can be manipulated to win the electoral college and certain senate races. Not that they are taking over the country.
The tribal fighting manipulated by cynical demagogues needs to stop, that is exactly what Mayor Pete is saying, and what Obama said in his speeches and what Fukuyama is suggesting is the great problem right now worldwide.
And you're all for that? You think it's a dandy way to do politics? Would you be happy if America was broken up in separate but equal tribal areas? If so, why are you so horrified about the white supremacist movement? They just want their own country apart from other racial tribes. You seem to want your own, too. You talk like you do.
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 3:02am
Proves my point. Blacks are not doing identity politics, it’s a white thing.
If Trump is re-elected, his supporters are kinda sorta taking over the country. Trump will not be held to account legally if he gets a second term. He is shielded from getting kicked out of office by the GOP. He gets to appoint judges who will interpret the Constitution for decades.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 7:20am
Whuh? Blacks don't do identity politics? Who knew...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 8:15am
Castro made reparations a major plank in his campaign. Name the other Democrats running on identity politics and excluding white voters.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 9:00am
I assumed by "it's a white thing" you're talking about more than just the presidential contest.
Anyway, this whitey ain't gonna play this game no more - more interested in tackling needs, both voter-related and general sanity.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 9:44am
The comments were about Buttigieg’s statement about identity politics.
The take home point is that in the Presidential race, so far it has been Trump and his base promoting identity politics.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 9:49am
A funny article proposing to update Steinem for the anti-Identity Identity age - like if Steinem were taking a selfie the whole time and forgot to do any actual investigative journalism. Queer guide for the straight side, millennial edition.
https://newrepublic.com/article/153795/going-playboy-club
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 1:04am
Makes zero sense. Is like Mrs. Malaprop talking:
Tribes force us to alter traditions. It is our national creed. We will get through this.
To be clear if it hasn't sunk in: our national creed is the U.S. Constitution to which new citizens-by-choice pledge their fealty. I really have yet to see you explain why you are against it being our national creed that unifies all of us citizens of the U.S.
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 12:36am
We also use sports and holidays and other shared experiences as part of our creed (war being sadly another one). Our movie culture has gone international though, but that still means others sharing in our vision, not the other way around. Same with our corporate capitalism & start-up culture - we don't much import that - it's part of our brand we export.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 2:14am
A reminder that much of our shared wisdom & culture is also nonsense mythology to sell to the masses - in this case the silly promise of coding as a future and a way out - for people who simply aren't hacker types.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/us/mined-minds-west-virginia-coding.html
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 4:20am
Just ran across a good National Review (!) backgrounder on Mayor Pete from March; it's not the silly stuff you would expect from the title; it's stuff that tells you things about his experiences that give insight into how he thinks, what policies he favors, what kind of politicking he does and also suggestive about where he might be lacking:
Twenty Things You Probably Didn’t Know About Pete Buttigieg
By Jim Geraghty, March 22, 2019
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 3:21am
To summarize, Trump has white identity politics on steroids. Democrats are running essentially universal appeal campaigns. Black voters are favoring white candidates over black candidates. Black voters are not doing identity politics. Buttigieg criticizes identity politics. Identity politics is only being practiced on one side of the aisle.
Edit to add:
This is not a case of both sides do it.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 8:14am
The Constitution as national creed is somewhat problematic because we rely on the Constitution to be interpreted by those who sit on the Supreme Court. Relying on those justices is questionable because we have seen a seat stolen by the Republicans.
I don’t trust the Supreme Court when it comes to deciding cases involving gerrymandering. I didn’t agree with the decision in the Gore case. Roe v. Wade is under assault, and I don’t trust the current Supreme Court to uphold that prior decision. I have problems with who decides what the Constitution says. I don’t believe that corporations have religious rights.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 9:34am
We first rely on the Constitution as interpreted by us individually, then common acceptance.
The country doesn't fall apart with each controversial SC decision.
The vitality and validity doesn't rest on whether RBG or Kavanaugh prevails.
Presumably we can all agree the basic wisdom and intent of the document, and where it's not clear enough or doesn't handle developing situations, we augment it. Aside from Prohibition and some uncertainty about direct election of Senators, these alterations haven't seemed to hurt its applicability.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 9:53am
If the Constitution is based on our individual interpretations, we are back at the Tower of Babel. I doubt many people think that their ideas are unconstitutional.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 10:07am
You as a citizen have a basic buy-in to the Constitution. If you go out protesting, you're generally protesting based on what you believe as Constitutional, even if the Supreme Court relegated you to lesser rights. If you're dealing with schools, highways, taxes, police, businesses, you're dealing with them in some way based on the codifying of their existence or laws that followed as laid out by the Constitution. Note I followed individual interpretation (buy-in/understanding) with common usage interpretation - i.e. just cuz you think you're right, you still have to fact check with those around, either to see if you're off-base, or if you've got a bigger struggle ahead. No man is an island.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 10:31am
If a group reaches critical mass and seeks reparations for descendants of slaves, there will be opponents who state that reparations is an insane idea. The happy medium might be more money put into efforts to aid descendants of slaves. However, those who feel that reparations are insane will not want any money spent. Some opponents will feel reparations are an overreach and feel that they are the victims. How does tha statement that the Constitution is our national creed change the positions and emotions that result? The Constitution as national creed gives us the same result as we have today. Both groups are using rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 2:19pm
People in general have 4 limbs, a head with eyes & nose & mouth & ears and 1 of 2 sexual organs.
That doesn't mean people won't be tall, short, fat, skinny, different color hair, skin, whatever.
The Constitution is a basis for law and rights - that doesn't mean people won't disagree, some won't do something illegal, etc. Even your presumed tribe here of black people might disagree in several different ways the right approach.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 4:36pm
I thought one original premise was that adhering to a national creed was a solution to so-called identity politics.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 4:45pm
Presumably a law that works more or less the same for everyone is a unifying influence, softening the divisions of our identity and individual+group+State/regional wants, yes.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 4:51pm
Anti-discrimination laws often target specific marginalized groups and do not impact the majority. Equality for the marginalized group will be seen as a restriction of rights by those in the majority. Why should the majority member who owns a restaurant have to serve or hire a person from a marginalized group? Equality will mean that the majority will have to accept change. The majority will feel threatened and claim victimhood.
Edit to add:
Fukuyama argues that white identity politics occurred because marginalized groups ask for too much. There are disputes about voter suppression, gerrymandering, police abuse, housing discrimination, bias in lending, bias in employment, etc. What overreaches are triggering white identity politics?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 9:40am
1) that's not what Fukuyama said
2) laws can't be written to explicitly favor a particular group unless correcting a wrong. Thus anti-discrimination laws note 8 or 12 reasons where cant discriminate. Those that are too narrow towards a particular class have sometimes been shut down as unconstitutional.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 10:30am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/09/18/identity-politics/?utm_term=.8751628f3d84
Marginalized groups wanted sociopath-economic equality. They learned that even with improved economics, social disparities remained due to bias based on race and gender. This created the obstacle to empathy and communication with the majority group according to Fukuyama. Fukuyama dismisses the lived experiences of continued discrimination. He assumes that the so-called legitimate demands of were agreed upon. In fact, Martin Luther King Jr. was despised by a majority of white Americans.
Fukuyama notes globalization as a further reason for despair. He talks of working class incomes. He seems to think that minority communities were not impacted by globalization or part of the working class.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 11:19am
The failure of Bernie Sanders to connect with black voters is tied to his ability to see racism as a major problem in his 2016 campaign
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8671135/bernie-sanders-race
Race remains an important factor for marginalized groups. Fukuyama would dismiss that fact as being about a lived experience.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 11:45am
Try reading this version, where Fukuyama talks about 3 types/traits of populism, one of which promotes 1 ethnic majority over all the rest. So it's not like this Japanese guy wishes or washes away all ethnic discrimination as you present it.
https://www.eurozine.com/new-identity-politics/
Try this one - a bit like racism in the 50's, the largely conservative white class is disnissive of "snowflakes" and their causes. But skip forward 20 years, maybe this same class sees "snowflakes" as getting what they want, so they start adopting or better yet *teaching* to the less privileged of their tribe or constituency the techniques and framing that snowflakes used to protest and organize and compete and express their victimhood more effectively, so now you've got essentially white conservative snowflakes protesting, even though their grievances will be significantly different from liberal snowflake grievances. Though some of these grievances will be valid, while others will be contrived or exaggerated. Like that liberal Jewish organizer in the 60's, Saul Alinsky, it's just a *technique*, not a value judgment of right or wrong. He could use that with blacks, with anti-war protesters, with Appalachian poor, with whoever. And Fukuyama's right that part of the white thing is justified, the loss of the American dream the last 20 years both as money and prestige and links to actual power, "old rich white male" or just "white male" as a growing pejorative, making fun of Christianity unless it's black Christianity, education that's more out of reach producing sour grapes reactions, little towns that can't afford a grocery store or a theater, where opioid abuse takes over - that feeds into prior racism and fear - doesn't obliterate it.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 1:09pm
I understand the recent history. Where I differ is that there have always been white grievances and fears. This is why there were slave patrols that morphed into police departments. The suppression of blacks votes has been a constant since the country was founded. It changed from 3/5ths to poll taxes and literacy tests to threatening black voters to gerrymandering and the current slew of bills to suppress votes. The white grievances have been a continuum.
Unions had to be forced to accept black workers. The military was segregated. It was considered historic when Jackie Robinson played professional baseball. Even pro friggin football had to be forced to hire black head and assistant coaches. Fukuyama begins his timeline in the 1960s. He ignores the white grievances present since the founding of the country.
Marginalized groups know they are outsiders. We saw the tape of the irrational irate cop who said he feared for his life when he opened Sandra Bland’s car door. We see an unarmed black women shot dead by a cop outside of Houston. There is no trust in the system just as there hasn’t been trust in the police since the founding. Fukuyama’s timeline is a black-faced lie.
DuBois talked about this long before Martin Luther King Jr.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 2:04pm
Oh really? Try to grok something like this in that context for size! The mind reels... (Ya see, I'd love to see a more sophisticated version of discussion of the whole meme, above and beyond the simplistic confusion rmrd's protests always drag it down to. Is why I love keeping up with what cross cultural folks like Fukuyama and Remi Adekoya are saying, and even Mayor Pete in his Rodney-King-like political machinations.).
The Rise of Dog Identity Politics
By John Homans @ NYMag.com, Jan. 1, 2010
by artappraiser on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 11:11pm
Misses the point. Democrats are not doing identity politics. Trump is doing identity politics. In polls, blacks are favoring white candidates. Republicans and Trump are doing white identity politics. It is not a both sides do it problem. You are doing a strawman argument. I am saying that identity politics is not being practiced by Democrats in the Presidential campaign. You should approve of that.
Republicans are attacking Representative Tlaib for praising the Holocaust.
Here is what she said:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rashida-tlaib-holocaust-israel-palestine_n_5cd8de9ce4b054da4e8bab52
I read that as Tlaib saying that Jews were persecuted and needed a safe land. Jews got a safe land, but Palestinians suffered. She wishes that there was a better way that would have protected Jewish people and not required Palestinians to suffer. She wants everyone to be free and safe. Do you not find a universal message in her words? I think marginalized groups are asking for is equality.
Edit to add:
Name the Democratic Presidential candidates who are alienating white voters by focusing on identity politics.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 8:47am
Oh look here's another grownup conversation being had on topic. Sprouting everywhere it seems!. Maybe by the grace of god it will catch on here at Dag:
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 12:15am
There was a conference about something to do with inclusivity and identity in the Middle East held at NYU. There is no content or link to the conference. Do you have a link?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 8:46am
He gives hashtag to get you to more than one link
https://twitter.com/hashtag/InclusiveCitizenship?src=hash
this 1.32 minute video might give you the best idea, he definitely gives the gist of what PP and I are talking about (again, what you are talking about is probably a totally different thing as you don't assign the same meanings to words like "identity politics" the way most people use them)
at the end of it is where to get more info. on their work
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 2:11pm
I have given you several links in the past from Coates, Stacey Abrams, and other who disagree with the way Fukuyama defines identity politics.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 2:23pm
I think you misread what they said, too. And I'll throw in again that I think you are misreading Mayor Pete. You have a habit of twisting things other people say to fuel your own favorite jihadi points on this whole issue. And in the end it always pretty much ends up a scenario that's worse than talking past one another, you make the other a strawman. Because they are not talking about what you are talking about, you need to turn them into a strawman. You have to open your mind to other subjects, other points of view and stop preaching one issue if you want to discuss with people. Everything is not a manichean debate about your way of approaching the world. It grows tiresome to others, you just preach the same dogma over and over. You cherry pick news to support your dogma. You think you have things all figured out. It's clear that you keep lists of links to support your dogma and add to them all the time. This is not openness to learning, it is preaching. It's apples v. oranges compared to what most other members want to do here. It's welcome as anything else people post here, but to be surprised that you don't get a good reaction is sort of ridiculous.
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 2:40pm
Roxane Gay
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/dec/27/roxane-gay-writer-interview-literary-fiction-reading-diversely
Ta-Nehisi Coates
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/ta-nehisi-coates-race-politics-2020-elections.html
Stacey Abrams
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/1/18206769/stacey-abrams-state-of-the-union-response-essay-identity-politics
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 2:47pm
So here's some homework - read the Fukuyama article I linked to earlier and find where he tells blacks to go back to class-based politics. Find where he tells blacks they shouldn't be concerned about their own identity.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 4:44pm
I read the article
Here is your homework assignment read Fukuyama’s friggin’ book
Here is a summary to help you along
https://www.politicalorphans.com/fukuyama-is-wrong-about-identity-politics/
Fukuyama calls for heeding a national creed specifically because he sees race-based issues as divisive.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 5:29pm
Quit quoting other people and show me what Fukuyama actually said. Quoting your heroes isn't the same. Quoting 3 of your heroes who quote each other to say what Fukuyama says is not what Fukuyama says.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 6:40pm
See below
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 7:43pm
They are not discussing this like you discuss it all. What they are actually doing is objecting to defining identity politics like you (and admittedly others) do, as tribalism. They think it is faulty to define most activities defined as "identity politics" as tribalism and trying to explain why they think that it is not like tribalism.
More importantly, I haven't seen any of those three say We are tribal nor have I've seen them tout tribalism as something natural to all humans that either cannot be avoided or, as you sometimes have suggested, is a good thing. Neither have I seen them confusing diversity with its opposite, tribalism.
Rather, they all seem to be globalists and believe in trying to understand and persuade "the other" to defeat tribalism and are interested in getting people to unite under some basic creeds. Some examples:
A team gathered to work on a goal is not at all the same thing as an ethnic, racial or religious tribalism. Your constant confusion of the two just because people with black skin brought from Africa were forced to artificially tribalize as one tribe by slavery and racism makes a terrible muddle of what you say. It's especially ridiculous because before they were enslaved they were themselves ethnic tribes often at each other's throats, even with instances of selling others into slavery. It is actually enforces racism, racist tribalism, to think that they should join together to be a one-thinking unit based on the color of their skin simply because you think they need to continue fighting against those who tribalize by white skin rather than persuading to a common set of laws or values or rights.
THIS IS NOT TRIBALISM:.....a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.....
I actually find it rather racist and offensive how you constantly tout tribalism as a good thing.
But that's totally apart from just pointing out that you are often communicating contradictory nonsense, that there is no intellectual rigor to what you do with this issue and many others, you cherry pick to the max to support your own views rather than having an open mind about how others think on it. It's like you are reading everything with blinders on and a very closed partisan mind looking for fodder for partisan political progaganda, lacking in curiosity about other minds and ideas. When everybody else is trying to do a graduate school seminar on issues and problems and news of the country and the world, you're trying to drag us into a high school pep rally for "our side", whatever that is. The irony is Mayor Pete is specifically showing himself to be someone who refuses to play the game you like to play and has some interesting tools in his kit for avoiding that happening.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 1:26pm
They are not talking about me, they are discussing you.
Here are Gay’s comments in context
https://dailycollegian.com/2017/11/roxane-gay-delivers-keynote-address-o...
You use the term pity olympics, a term just as dismissive as identity politics when it comes to concerns of marginalized groups. How is your term not dismissive?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 2:42pm
Yeah, was wondering when someone would figger out AA's a big Bernie fan. Kinda like a Fifth Column here at Dag all on her lonesome.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 2:47pm
She uses the term. The term is dismissive.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 3:17pm
Actually, seriously, what I am is a former graduate student who almost quit my first semester because I got roughly challenged as being a sloppy thinker, as just another one who figured out how to game the system to get good grades. That was a major existential crisis for this good Catholic girl just gliding by on laurels. That professor ended up teaching me how to be a scholar in short order and I will be forever grateful to him for that. I went on to T.A. for him and others. I was just as tough a grader as he, because I then I had learned what an important gift criticism of poor communication and sloppy thinking was.My own life was far richer because of the criticism, the slap in the face to wak up.
All that said, I am getting too old to waste time on this savior complex anymore, though, need to let this thing go, stop falling for the thought that every single one can be woke.
But there's also this: I just don't get doing the partisan spin thing on a small site like this! Makes no sense! No chance of convincing anyone here. On the other hand, as I said, I am a true believer that criticism of sloppy thinking should be welcomed! Why else does one participate here for except to do seminar style discussion with equals and hone your communication and thoughts to a higher level?
To spend time looking for amens and dittos on a site like this is absurd. Compliments when genuinely meant, sure. But amens and dittos of political spin? Especially the same spin over and over and over? Absurd! Going to a big site and trying to make viral would make sense. Doesn't make sense here, what the heck does one accomplish? Only thing I can think of: are we like guinea pigs, try outs for spin? That's insulting.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 4:17pm
Pity olympics is still dismissive.
Edit to add:
It is not partisan spin that the Republicans have us in a slow rolling Constitutional crisis.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 4:46pm
When the Constitution conflicts with Identity Politics the outcome will depend of course on the IP in play, its ' intensity and maybe its' origin: the Potato Famine? the Middle Passage?the passage from Egypt. There are IPs and there are IPs.
by Flavius on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 11:22am
Obviously, I think identity politics is simply a technique used to avoid an issue. It is similar to the race card. Voter suppression is an issue as is police abuse. In a criminal case, a lawyer will use whatever technique he deems necessary to win a case. Clarence Thomas used high tech lynching to remind people that he was black. R Kelly’s lawyer may use poverty and illiteracy to lower the sentence. A wealthy white kid used affluenza to escape justice. If you have the law on your side, argue the law.If yo have the facts, argue the facts. If you got nothing, jump up and down.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 05/13/2019 - 11:45am
Response to PP above
I can’t present a book in a blog
Here is a snippet from an interview in the Economist
https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/30/can-liberal-democracies-survive-identity-politics
Another snippet from Foreign Affairs
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2019-02-01/stacey-abrams-response-to-francis-fukuyama-identity-politics-article
If Fukuyama thought that the country was unified after the civil rights era, he was sorely mistaken. As I noted whites strongly disliked Martin Luther King Jr.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-martin-luther-king-had-75-percent-disapproval-rating-year-he-died-180968664/
Obama got the minority of the white vote. White voters switched to Trump because of race.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/16/17980820/trump-obama-2016-race-racism-class-economy-2018-midterm
Fukuyama has no examples that demonstrate his theory works.
I don’t think copy and pasting from a Kindle book is legal. So I provide the reviews.
Edit to add from the Foreign Affairs article
Fukuyama seems oblivious to the fact that marginalized groups are cooperating now. I posted a link to a white group that shows up to protect Black Lives Matter. He always starts his argument with what Progressives did, rather than the fact that whites always felt under assault. I noted the hatred for MLK Jr.
The owners of an Alabama restaurant forced to integrate, took their refusal to serve blacks to court. The owners felt that they were victims.
https://www.npr.org/2014/12/13/370470745/forced-to-seat-blacks-ala-restaurant-complied-with-history
White victimhood is not new
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 9:02pm
At the end of the day, different groups are working together. So-called identity politics did not hamper Democrats in the midterms. Democratic candidates for President are not diverted by so-called identity politics, they are simply working to make sure the needs of black voters are included in their platforms. Candidates are showing up in black communities. Democrats are focused on beating Trump.
Fukuyama should focus on where the real problem lies, the Republican Party. Fukuyama does note that Republicans are resistant to his message about true identity politics. He acknowledges that Republicans are being fed red meat. In moments of weakness, he will admit that the identity problem on the Right is not new
Fukuyama will keep yammering. Democrats will craft their message. Trump is practicing white identity politics. There is nothing that blacks, Latinos, or LGBT can do to change that.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/14/2019 - 11:35pm
Thanks for quoting Fukuyama.
Black leader unpopular during Civil Rights is unsurprising. Post-shooting he became a martyr and icon.
"Don't tell me what to do" is a paeticularly strong American trait that colors all things - difficult to deal with.
Now, tell me how this differs significantly from Fukuyama:
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 2:04am
You are biased. I provided links to people who agreed with my assessment. I asked which Democratic candidates were violating Fukuyama’s rules (There are none). Simply because you disagree, you removed my content.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 9:03am
Not sure who you're talking about, but I didnt remove any content.
PS - if you start your own thread, I also give wide berth.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 10:27am
Nobody argued any of the Dem presidential candidates are doing it.
It's more than obvious: presidential candidates all know better because they eventually have to win a national election and are running in a role that is traditionally uniter not tribal divider under a national creed.
Especially this time. Because currently in office is a tribal divider who doesn't even practice it out of true tribal feelings, he does it cynically to jerk off with his narcissist team-of-one con man game (though he has brought along many with him who actually do it out of tribal feelings.)
Some Congresspersons do it, both sides of the aisle. Those that see themselves as having partisan, divisive role. That are in safe (gerrymandered) tribal districts.
Take that too far, though, and you end up with civil war. A lot of the country says they don't like this state of divisiveness, much less that level. If they don't have a safe tribal district, they substantially risk losing.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 3:51pm
This is not a both sides do it problem.
Republican legislators in Wisconsin and Michigan tried a coup against incoming Democratic Governor
Republicans in Congress are allowing Trump to act as emperor
Republicans in multiple states are punishing women.
Republicans are openly suppressing votes
Both sides are NOT doing it.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 3:56pm
Comment section disappear Ed on my iPad. I thought it was your action.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/15/2019 - 10:41am
Yay on this video clip! More and more I think it is so good he's running, and that has nothing to do with whether I'd vote for him or anyone else should, BUT precisely because he has this way of upsetting applecarts of the same old same old shit without causing too much blowback:
Basically, he's very good at not feeding trolls, he disarms trolling.
by artappraiser on Sun, 05/19/2019 - 7:53pm
Brit Hume tweeted this direct reply rebuke to Trump tweet whining about Mayor Pete being on Fox:
by artappraiser on Sun, 05/19/2019 - 8:23pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 05/19/2019 - 9:01pm