MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
![]() |
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
The debate about appropriation continues.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/25/2019 - 8:53pm
watched Unbearable Lightness of Being where swedish and french actresses played 2 czechs in a seminal work by Kundera. how can that be? no shame? not even slavic. and daniel day lewis? the horror
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/25/2019 - 9:10pm
As noted in the. NYT article
Voices are being heard that were silenced in the past. Get used to the new paradigm.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/25/2019 - 9:31pm
we in the art world are used to it, been used to it for a decade like the article says.
That's EXACTLY why it irks someone like me to hear victimhood whining and memes from people who seem to have been living under a rock for the last decade supposedly still being held down by Confederate ghosts. Look, a white male sculptor wanting to get a commission for a statue of a white man right now is simply out of luck, no one wants him or his work.
Your victimhood narrative is simply not the reality of things, you are trying to spin a situation negatively instead of being happy and proud it's your time you whine and have an obsession with old times as if you wish they were back so you could continue an old fight which you romanticize and find glamorous and inspiring, almost as if you miss being part of a powerless underclass. Your glass is half full, not half empty in the history of things, opportunity abounds. Trump is president by electoral fluke of resentment from a minority BECAUSE OF your tribal cultural success. Your constant negativity is shocking in light of what we all know is going on in the culture. For chrissake they let Beyonce and JayZ run around the Louvre after hours doing anything they wanted with the greatest hits of centuries of white European culture of all time with a video camera and dancers. Deal with it.
Whatever hating you experience now, others get as well, the world is never going to be free of Teds and never has been free of haters. Let sleeping dogs lie, take advantage of your moment in the sun, be proud of it and stop the victimhood obsession. Better to show the successes, like President Barack Obama first Lady Michelle Obama being the most popular woman in the world and black medical students posing on the site of former slaves. Victimhood thing simply strikes as ridiculous in context of what is going on in world culture. What's happening to Afro-American culture is the opposite of what is happening to Uighur culture.
I think you need to follow Obama's twitter feed to start getting a picture of reality, it's you who won't/can't see the new paradigm and the reason for the counter-reaction to it. At the very least, you should be able to see that continuing the victimization meme is not working on Dag
by artappraiser on Wed, 12/25/2019 - 9:59pm
Didn't read your rant. The quote came from a white artist reflecting on the pushback black artists had to a painting of Emmett Till by a white artist. Somewhere in your ranting, I'm sure that you will name me as the culprit. The NYT had an article focusing on three black female artist's who reflected on their problems navigating the art world.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/08/magazine/black-women-artists-conversation.html
You probably do a pity olympics response. I don't take you seriously.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/25/2019 - 10:54pm
Pretty dismissive, categorizing people as just white or black. So many thousands of years of heritage filed away in 2 categories. Such a waste of diversity.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 2:39am
Bubble boy is back.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 8:02am
Such projection, I bet because you've already been accused many times elsewhere of bubble think. In any case, anyone who reads you can see it in what you write. PP's experienced more cultures up close and personal than you can probably even imagine.
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 2:13pm
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 3:40pm
No personal accusations oof bubble think, but you do the job for the rest of us.
Edit to add:
Despite the travels, PP remains trapped in the Lost Cause.
Misty Copeland is well traveled and does not accept cultural excuses for blackface.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 4:23pm
How exactly am I "trapped in the Lost Cause"?
You're really digging for the f.u.'s again.
Explain yourself.
I think you've built a plantation in your mind.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 5:18pm
Your excuses for the Confederates are classic Lost Cause. Taxes, states rights,etc. are all Lost Cause. I'm gonna get Fuck U's no matter what I say.
Edit to add:
We also get pity olympics and pleas empathy for racists go unchallenged.
There are "good" people on both sides.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 5:57pm
Taxes? What the hell? Anyway, go peddle your Lost Cause theories to someone who gives a damn. Alexa, is there someone interesting I can talk to?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 6:15pm
You are the Confederate apologist who sees nothing wrong with braiding bans and blackface.
Your excuse of pity olympics is boring to me.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 10:38pm
Nice oversimplification. Your inability to get past one size fits all categories does bore and eventually irritate me.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 11:04pm
One size doesn't fit all, you set different standards.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 11:10pm
Yes, we noticed - you have standards for you and standards for the rest, often as hoc as you need them.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 3:26am
Why is pity olympics and empathy for Confederates and racists OK?
If that is acceptable, why criticize anti-Semites?
That is your standard.
Louis Farrakhan is a family man just like "Ted".
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:07am
Oh look, he scrambled up the facts to fit his framing again. Not much to surprise anymore.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:27am
Those are the facts. No scramble. Ted is made a victim.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 9:13am
There are more than two sides, that's one major thing you don't get, that's a Trump invention you are enabling. At least a third of the registered voters in this country are Independents. And I would venture a guess that maybe half the people who aren't registered don't vote because they think "a pox on both your houses."
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 6:43pm
You label black complaints as pity olympics.
In the next breath, you complain that we should have empathy for racists.
Should we offer this America empathy to Tamika Mallory for expressing love for Louis Farrakhan?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 10:36pm
no I label a lot of rmrd complaints as pity olympics. Fact is I don't even know for sure he is black, all I know is what he writes under a pseudonynym on the internet often claiming to represent all Americans with dark skin, sometimes limiting it to the "Afro-American community". I do so in an effort to point out that I don't think what he says is helpful to his own causes and the causes of my relatives and friends with dark skin. The thinking like this: if his arguments and presentations manage to turn off his few liberal readers on Dagblog, what might the reaction be if read by a much larger population? If he addressed a bigger community, I might even think him a Russian bot looking to purposely agitate other against the causes he claims to support, others who might be sympathetic if approached with less alienating "fuck all the other tribes" rhetoric.
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 5:43pm
Well, it keeps us from talking about Russia, or even important areas like black unemployment, incarceration, police treatment, or access to positions of power. Instead it's braids and Civile War statues. Putin must be delighted, Joe Arpaio as well. #MissionAxxomplished.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 5:55pm
"French" detective Poirot played by Brit David Suchet, descended from Lithuanian Jews. Why not an uproar? How inauthentic, how marginalized the French are in modern Britain. Such cultural appropriation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Suchet
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 3:57pm
You made me think of what kinda career in the acting biz someone would have if they were limited to Lithuanian Jewish roles.![laugh laugh](http://cdn.ckeditor.com/4.5.6/full-all/plugins/smiley/images/teeth_smile.png)
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 5:06pm
Pretty germane point.
Oh, and Poirot is *Belgian* speaking Frnlench - quite the tight casting call.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 5:49pm
More:
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 7:06pm
We have a black guy,. We have a black guy. There are no racial problems anymore. This is just like the way the election of Barack Obama cured racism in the United States.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 10:41pm
The plantation gates are open now, the War's over. You can walk out any time you want. It's certainly a difficult, often ugly world out there, but it's better than in here. Much better.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 11:08pm
at times like this I wish we had ratings for comments, in mho that's a 10.
On It's certainly a difficult, often ugly world out there, reminds me how the meme "when bad things happen to good people" has long been a best-seller for inspirational books....
by artappraiser on Thu, 12/26/2019 - 11:13pm
The article is a list of 10 and gives reasons for each. It's not about "a black guy". It's about the changes in the curatorial profession, the judgment of peers, related to changing interpretation of art history and history. The "black guy" in the picture is #1, he was a Nigerian, in internationalist practice, not American. He just died recently and his death was a shock to the curatorial world because his work was widely respected as that of a genius. He was also a powerful figure in the art world, affecting the art market. As is another person on the list, Thelma Golden of the Studio Museum of Harlem, she wields a great deal of power in the current art world, including the art market.
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 5:56pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 2:08am
re-posts on pop culture from end of this thread
and notch yet another one for the melanin endowed; over at Miss World pageant:
Miss Nigeria's reaction to Miss Jamaica's win at the Miss World competition is what genuine joy looks like
Dec. 14
Miss Nigeria, Nyekachi Douglas, couldn't contain her excitement when Miss Jamaica, Toni-Ann Singh, was announced as the winner of the competition.
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 3:39am
It is 2019. Cup half-empty. On the national level, the likelihood of another black President has dropped dramatically.
Do you think race relations are good in 2019?
From Pew
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/
Is that black pity olympics?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:22am
Most black adults have negative views about the country’s racial progress
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:25am
The likelihood of an Obama-like politician arising at all has weakened - of whatever race or religion or gender. Part is the media, part is the money, part is the absence of people with cultivated credentials. Still, a Stacey Abrams could do it in 4 years, but you're so busy trying to pick out the negatives, hope & change is long forgotten.
Also what's missing in these polls is "can we as black people make a difference to improve our lot?" or "in what areas have black comfort and opportunity improved the most?" If you only ask about negatives you skew the poll negative. And that skew is different for whites doing these polls vs blacks. Even putting a Civil War or slavery reference in frames it in a high negative vs what's happened in the past say 70 years.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:32am
See the graph above your post. You are in a bubble if you think I am a lone voice in what I say about race.
Nonwhites are more likely to see advantages in being white
From the same Pew report.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:36am
"See the graph above your post. You are in a bubble if you think I am a lone voice in what I say about race." - uh, what do you think I was referring to, the Picayune Times?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:39am
WTF
Black people have not been sitting on their butts.
Blacks fought to improve the justice system
Blacks fight to improve education
Blacks fight to improve the health care they receive
Blacks fight for increasing the minimum wage, etc.
You show that you exist in a bubble
Typical condescension.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 9:14am
If you'd only stayed awake in high school class on citations & references, you might quote the item that you're supposedly referring to. Someone here said blacks "sit on their butts", "didn't fight for justice", "didn't fight for health care" (I"m not sure what "blacks" did there as a racial movement, but I'm sure some blacks were involved), etc.???
Long on the strawmen (and women), dude. Condescension towards who or what? You can't even explain what you mean. You just have some 10 Commandments you keep pointing to, and expect every Black & non-Black will climb aboard. Even Moses took some pushback, had to go back for a second set of tablets. And look where it got his "chosen people"? As much pain as gain. But you want the red carpet, apparently. You, not blacks, you.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:45am
You just white-splained a Pew poll.
Edit to add:
You wanted the poll rephrased
The poll was about how blacks perceive current events.
Also
I posted about African Descendants of Slavery. I never said that I speak for all.black people.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:14am
"White-splained"? It's fucking obvious that slavery still greatly affects race relations and black opportunity 150 years later, whatever some dumbass white folks might think, and the Pew poll adding that to a current events and attitudes poll skews the results by making blacks more pessimistic. If anything, I black-splained it. Here, "think of a cotton field. Now, tell me how life is in America". Pew is not the fucking Bible - they can have brain farts like all the media seems to have these days (as more and more journalist professionals get furloughed and replaced by hack web designers or pros who are overworked and doing the job of 3.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:15am
Oh, so you just speak for all African Descendents of Slavery. How humble of you.
To reiterate, the present is not just the present - how you feel now is also dependent on your feelings of control of possible futures, as well as residual effects of near and remote pasts, to varying degrees.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:17am
H, a friend , got tired of looking at a space along the West Side Highway and thought- why not place a statue of Eleanor Roosevelt there ?-So he suggested that and it happened.
Hillary came up for a fund raiser to pay for it. Various Rooseveltians joined in.
It's long been up. Turn west on 57th street and you'll see it.
Only H's second most famous accomplishment.
For H's friends pride of place in among his accomplishment sweep stakes goes to his intervention to end a fight on 57th Street . Between a husband and wife. Quite physical, perhaps from past practice. On this occasion peace resulted from H's intervention as the two of them joined forces to pummel H.
Which I bear in mind when I occasionally ponder intervening in the pleasantries among pp, rmrd and aa.
by Flavius on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 6:18pm
Riffing off your comment. In a context where I see myself as posting and promoting positive news regarding the advancement of a post-racial world, and I see rmrd as just loving any story that reeks of racial victimhood and tribalist fights over spoils, I like this one of the many inscriptions on the pavement surrounding the Eleanor Roosevelt memorial:
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 6:13pm
You live in a bubble. The Pew poll reflects reality. We are not post-racial.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 7:42pm
You do not know how to read tenses. I and no one else here said we are post-racial. Rather, we like to acknowledge the signs that we are on the way there. Glass half full. Lots of progress. Progress so fast it is inspiring counter-reaction by tribal white Trump fans and similar movements around the world, not a single one of which is a majority in a democracy.
You write as if there is only black and white. Actual fact: we in the U.S. are very well on the way to having a mixed race majority in this country!
You won't even have figures from polls to throw around soon because the "black" and "white" categories will no longer be useful or make any sense to respondents..
All of this change is reflected in high and low culture, despite Trump's efforts with the screaming last gasp group, there is tribal assimilation and change going on. Actual intermarriage, with subsequent blunt loss of any kind of racial determination. Metaphorical intermarriage too.
Reading your comments sometimes it seems like you are speaking from 1965, been in a coma since then.
Not letting people take on other people's cultural tidbits when they admire them is detrimental to the process and idiotic in its fruitlessness, impossible and absurd. It is the process of assimilation and globalization. and has been going on for millennia. The process which the Trump-like populist movements are fighting against. Every time you promote "separate but equal" tribal thinking, you are aiding their side. Every time you talk about black people rather than lower class people of all colors. By implying that blacks are all struggling powerless lower class victims, you also work on their side. Culturally, you're playing the rich man's game: divide and conquer.
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 8:07pm
The poll reflects the opinions of black voters. The poll is not a glass half full poll, it is a glass half-empty poll. You want a shiny, happy people story that does not exist. The poll is multiracial. The black and white results are in full force in 2019 and 2020. I am wide awake and not located in 1965. You are trapped in a wished for future with four political parties. You are blind to today.
Edit to add:
The comment about 1965 is telling. You see that there has been progress since 1965 and therefore blacks should not be complaining in 2019. You cannot see that it is 400 years since 1619. Celebrating multiple black beauty queens in 2019 is nice, but given the 400 year time period, it is a minor accomplishment.
The art world is struggling to have museum curators number reflect the ethnic diversity in the country.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/arts/design/museums-curators-diversity-employment.html
The cup is not full. The Pew poll suggests the black community recognizes that fact. You want blacks to shut up and be thankful for progress.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:19pm
The poll is a simplistic gauge. Why do people say yes or no? Which black people? In LA? In NY? In Houston? In Topeka? In Atlanta? In Jacksonville? And for what reasons - name the top 5, pro and con
"Race relations generally bad" - 29% blacks think it's ok, better than I surmised
"Trump has made relations worse" - that'll break down on Trump support, solid 42% supporting
"Slavery still has an impact on blacks" - I have trouble explaining whites who'd deny this, need to look at the actual phrasing, whether they think other factors largely outweigh...
"Our country hasn't gone far enough in giving blacks equality" - that'll turn on whether whites think blacks have made the most of what *has* been done. I'd find asking a percentage of how far has the country gone in giving blacks equality" more informative - 70%? 20%? Do blacks waste opportunities? I'd expect many blacks might agree with that, once whitey is taken out of the question.
"Not likely that blacks will ever have equal rights " - again, what does it mean? That racism won't exist in 2100 or 2200, or that races will be relatively and acceptably equal by then?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:26pm
Let's throw out all the polls including Gallup
https://news.gallup.com/poll/246866/americans-less-satisfied-treatment-minority-groups.aspx
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:57pm
Idiot, there's a fuckton more useful info in this poll and the supporting write-up of questions asked and breakdowns. Why are you such a douchebag?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:03pm
because he wants to emphasize victimhood! Clear as a bell, he hunts for it everywhere he can find it in news on the internet, wallows in it and posts his findings here so he can wallow further.
I've asked many times if there was any other purpose to doing that here, i.e., does he think it will accomplish something? Thinks there are racist leaning lurkers on Dagblog that need blacksplainin'? Crickets on that. A mystery, really.
Is the idea to change some dagbloggers mind here on what they see? On like the 10,000th time, maybe the scales will fall from our eyes?If so, often to the point of being rather insulting to his fellow members intelligence. It's not like he doesn't know we are all liberals and, despite the frequent straw man ops, hasn't been told by a single one of us that we think the U.S. is post racial heaven yet. Also knows we aren't deluded by Trump... So unless it's a case of wallowing in victimhood, I see no purpose. Preaching victim stories, wallowing in it, spinning that everythings a horror and it's still 1965, that's it.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 4:52am
Come on, that's a pretty large exaggeration. The worst that could happen here is you'd say something that pissed someone off. That's a condition of my life for more than years, decades, that I'm so used to it it seems normal and I've come to expect it.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 6:54pm
There is no physical danger in arguing online. An example of my frustration with AA and PP is that AA can use a term like pity olympics for blacks and yet, like you, expect empathy for racists. If blacks are victims and we accept that racist Ted is getting kicked in the shins, why should we argue about anti-Semitism when it comes to Rep. Omar or Tamika Mallory. I see a double standard.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 7:50pm
Seems like you're narrowing in on a few repeated catch phrases, slurs you think work. Do you have the same creeping brain disease as Trump?
I don't recall a big labeling of Rep Omar as "anti-semitic" from either of us. There was a question whether her incendiary approach to messaging was smart, or fed into tropes that didn't help her cause (empathy for Somalians getting drone bombed seems pretty easy).
As for Farrakhan, he's a bit like Hezbollah - takes care of his people to an extent, but with the approach of making his movement a pariah. I can sympathize with both (I/empathy for racists, remember?), and Farrakhan for sure doesn't fire rockets into Israel, but it's disingenuous for those who support Farrakhan to plead ignorance to his more toxic rantings.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:03pm
What is pity olympics?
Is pity olympics a slur?
Edit to add:
Tamika Mallory doesn't support Farrakhan's anti-Semitism, should she receive empathy like Ted? We can probably get her vote if we don't kick her in the shins. We're forgiving Ted's theoretical statements.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:28pm
Of course Mallory deserves empathy - she's an intelligent person trying to do good in a complex world and not always easy framing. Try this Jewish guy's excellent complex overview of the situation:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/nation-of-islam/555...
Whether she succeeds or not, she seems to be making needed effort, fending off criticisms, some that will be fair, some that won't, many often a distraction to her main focus. Much is just "did I peg the right phrases to make both sides happy?"?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:43pm
Great
Now is pity olympics a slur?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 10:59pm
Is "suck my rebel dick" a slur, or just an expression of culture? I'm conflicted.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:13pm
It's so small, I can't tell.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:52pm
Taste test, dude. Like telling oral vs anal thermometers.
(though "salute my l'il confederate statue" has a cute ring to it, you're right. Would Landrieu approve?)
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:58pm
Lemme see if an observatory will let me borrow their lens. I'm gonna need high power magnification.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 12:24am
Uh, that's for long distances, light years, no? As CSN sang, "when you see the Southern cross for the first time..."
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 12:31am
This reminds me of Jane Fonda's answer when asked about beauty pageants. She said something like I'm not going to condemn women who have so few opportunities for taking advantage of one of them in a patriarchal society.
Like you said, it's complex
by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:28pm
Yeah, my "both sides" shoulda been "a dozen or more sides". To do anything in these areas, guaranteed to be offending 2 or 3 groups at least.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 11:42pm
I definitely do not speak for the organization African Descendants of Slaves. Thanks for the humor.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/27/2019 - 7:37pm
Ah but they are black people too. Gosh, they think different from you, imagine that!
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 4:59am
The idea that I speak for all people is something that exists in your brain. Not my problem. Your brain also created pity olympics, so I don't spend a lot of time taking you seriously. You are good entertainment though.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 9:37am
Would be nice if you adjusted your rhetoric here so I and others here didn't infer that. I am seeing slight improvement in that vein, now try stopping the frequent production of simple-minded straw men we are trying to discuss complexities and you might be pleasantly surprised.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 1:07pm
Once again, you think that I care about your opinion.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 1:29pm
Pity Olympics is a brilliant phrase . If there actually were one in the US of course blacks won it. Once.
While playing the record I was looking at the cover notes to the Ziegfield Follies of 1919. By Martin Willliams. Director of the Smithsonians' Jazz and Popular Culture Program. He begins
Really ? Where has the obvious well meaning Martin Williams been hanging out one could wonder to have thought our race problem was unrecognized?
Other countries have had their own problems.I've watched indigent Dutch speaking farmers riot against indigent French speaking farmers. And heard the complaints of Finnish hunters against those bossy Swedes. But for here-or at least for part of here the blacks were clearly first in deserving pity for their sustained mal treatment.
Once. But they have had the presidency. Very successfully. Native Americans haven't . Mormons haven't. Chinese Americans haven't.
They've lost their lead in the Pity Olympics. Welcome to the pack.
by Flavius on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 1:07pm
Yes. I find it always good to remember, though, that there is vast difference on this front between the cultural and political spheres. And mixing the two doesn't help liberals. Culture change happens through culture (and this thread is about the culture), it can not be done by politics or forced by law. This is why the introduction of "culture wars" as a political cudgeon in the 80's was a successful tool for the GOP. And this is also why I don't exactly favor the left being aggressive culture warriors now. I think the counter-reaction is part of what got us Trump, he is a culture warrior first and foremost, not a professional politician and hasn't a clue about lawmaking or governing or sausage making as it were.
The courts are the place to protect minority culture and views until culture change works to affect the majority coming around. People didn't start favoring gay marriage because gays were kicking them in the shins.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 1:20pm
Gays stopped kicking people in the shins?
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 1:53pm
Blacks had the Presidency, what more could they want? Let's ignore voter suppression and bias in the legal system. You look at pity olympics as suggesting their is a hierarchy of grievances? Where would you place Ted's grievance since whites have been large and in charge?
Thanks for making this an interesting discussion.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:00pm
And here you are mixing politics into a thread about culture change. And, as Peracles noted upthread, you are one to promote discussions of who can wear braids and who can't, while Rome burns, long threads arguing about who can wear braids instead of voter suppression and bias in the legal system. This is what introducing culture wars into the political realm does: not just distraction but distraction and divisiveness over things that can't be changed by politics or law. Trump is expert at this. Left culture warriors enable his distraction. He jumps on anything cultural he can, every day, whatever is in the news.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:05pm
People can walk and chew gum. I provide links to activity that is occurring. There are battles about blacks existing while barbecuing, bans on braids, etc. The solutions to these problems come when various jurisdictions pass laws making it illegal to call police for blacks existing and restricting bans on braiding.
California was the first state to ban discrimination against natural hair. It took a political act.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/us/natural-hair-discrimination-ban.html
Oregon passed a bill allowing lawsuits against people who make existing while black 911 phone calls.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/6/5/18654140/oregon-911-call-legislation-racism-living-while-black
At the same time, the battle against voter suppression goes on
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/14/stacey-abrams-voter-suppression-campaign-states
Culture wars and political action do not have to wait until a"more pleasant season"
Trump will do what Trump is going to do. You remain in a bubble, trembling in fear. If Trump is re-elected, it will be because enough people like what he is doing. Transgender bathrooms will not be the cause for Trump winning.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:26pm
Also, comes to mind as regards the Pity Olympics game: To some hard-core of the pro-reparations gang, Obama isn't considered "their" president; they haven't had one yet, as he was half-white, raised by whites.There have even been dubious arguments about whether Anne Dunham had a slave owner and/or a slave in her ancestry.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:00pm
Hey the African Descendents of Slavery would now consider Barack Obama eligible for reparations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/us/obamas-mother-had-african-forebear-study-suggests.html
This is great news!
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:06pm
It is great news. By that standard Obama's mother would also be eligible for reparations. More genealogical research like this and white support for reparations would soar since so many of them would be eligible.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:48pm
ADOS will be thrilled.
Their t-shirts do look great though.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 7:21pm
Sorry Flav, I don't buy it. Obama, beauty pageants, Black Panther... who gives a rat's ass? Perhaps 30 million blacks have to worry every time they see a cop, that a driving "infraction" or some other encounter will in 10 minutes mean jail, a beating to the ground, multiple bullets "in self-defense". If a cop or security shows up, he'll arrest the nearest black guy, even with witnesses telling him different. Standing outside a 5-star hotel in a 3-piece suit? Tackled by cops anyway. That's not about pity, that's no longer even shame - it's a horrid indictment. A flag at a football game is more important than a black man's life. I could traipse off into other areas (and often condemn blacks for what I in MHO see as their part in lack of progress), but like Pelosi, want clarity, to focus on the offense and affront that sticks out. Not criminals or questionables - cops killing blacks in their homes, escalating incidents for their own egos, making enemies and victims of good citizens. Sadly, Obama chose to play the even-handed ref, can't tilt the already tilted field, and Holder was awfully restrained on reforms as well. Awful as 90's incarcerations were, Clinton worked with black leaders and communities to come up with ideas and progress. Since 2001, it's been ultimatums and smash football and Giuliani inspired low tolerance, even as excess Iraq military gear was distributed to police departments. What a shitshow. And still, no other ethnic community gets near this level of intolerance and violence. Blacks. Sure things are better in a lot of ways, but many things that should have gotten better got worse.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:03pm
another good example of what I just said elsewhere
A flag at a football game is more important than a black man's life.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:07pm
Good artists borrow. Great artists steal.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 3:52pm
Thanks for that.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 2:34pm
Oh well.
The only thing worse than now is how it used to be.
by Flavius on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 3:23pm
Guess you ran out of juice:
"Sure things are better in a lot of ways, but many things that should have gotten better got worse."
Overall, I'd guess for most blacks everyday life & opportunities are much better than 40 years ago. So it really pisses me off that they have to live with this awful Kafkaesque or Orwellian uncertainty that can strike at any time, no matter how normal & socially integrated they are.
But sure, act as if I'm saying everything's worse. I'm used to having my long-winded intricate statements twisted & framed simplistically.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 3:50pm
Flavius, This has been disappointing
You don't confront a racist, instead you make excuses.
You think blacks should be satisfied, but argue that Ted has legitimate grievances.
You are lost.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 7:20pm
Quote
“I’ ll make a point of talking with him” I said.
“Remember” she said “he’s very conservative” .
Good to know what topics to avoid.
Ted obviously has no problem with blacks. Staff’s about 50/50.
Unquote
by Flavius on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 11:41pm
What is the percentage of blacks that have been promoted by Ted?
Ted was presented by you as someone who would be able to be converted if he wasn't kicked in the shins.
Then you said that you haven't talked to Ted.
Now you seem to be saying that you won't discuss his feeling that blacks were better off in slavery.
You introduced Ted to us.
The staff is 50/50, but he thinks half of the staff would be better if they were enslaved. You then say he has no problem with blacks, just that they are inferior.
It comes across as Ted has no problem as long as blacks know their place. It also seems that Ted is not someone who can be converted.
Your presentation of Ted is confusing.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 12:46am
I'd love the people around me to be better human beings. Am I going to spend the new year pushing it, working out their flaws? No. Other more probable things to do in life. Plus Ted's view on global warming or war in the Mideast might be more harmful than his racist attitudes. But you're a one-trick pony.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 2:53am
Like I said before, mho, more like an obsession born of some unknown traumatic experience with a Confederate statue.
by artappraiser on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 3:41am
As I noted to PP, No one at work was kicking Ted in the shins, least of all Flavius. Ted is not a victim.
You continue to be entertaining.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 8:27am
I don't spend time with only "good". My comment was that Flavius implied that it was possible to convert Ted. When pressed, it seems that Ted was never approached. Who was kicking Ted in the shins? I wasn't kicking Ted in the shins, I have never met the man. The bottom line is that Flavius' presentation of Ted is not credible. The way Ted was presented. things are fine at work between Ted and "the blacks". There was no shin kicking.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 8:25am
Old news,
Sorry my description of Ted wasn't crediible.
One more time he's is gifted in handling the developmentally disabled, his work place is 50% black and of course he's not racist , you can't be in an environment where at least once a month
you depend on a black co worker to save you froma black eyel
AOBTW he is very conservative.
My fundamental point is that sadly Trump like McCarthy, like Hitler, like Giuliani is supported by good people and to defeat Trump we have to have a candidate who appeals to enough of them to get us to 50%
by Flavius on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 12:41am
My point is that we don't need Ted. There are enough people who are already backing away from Trump. In addition, there are Independents to be won. There are Democrats who stayed home to be won. You did nothing to convert Ted. Hillary got the majority of the vote. In 2020 we need to bring out. voters in key states. Ted is not going to magically switch parties. What would be your message to convert Ted?
You presented Ted as someone who believes blacks were better off during slavery. Now you say that he is not racism because he is not slaughtering blacks in the workplace. Do blacks in the workplace know what Ted thinks about them? Have you told blacks in the workplace what Ted thinks about them?
Democrats will have to find ways to win without Ted because Ted is not going to vote for a Democrat.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 7:44am
Sad that Flavius has to repeat his story over and over because you continue to mis-represent it. Straw manning it as usual with you.
by artappraiser on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 12:34am
Yawn
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 7:35am
Do you ever worry you bore others?
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 7:39am
No
Do you?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 8:46am
Blacks much more likely to be stopped.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/02/california-police-black-...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 01/03/2020 - 11:42am
PP: to me, what the article reports is more proof of glass half full, this concluding paragraph exudes savvy and confidence:
I looked them up, seems to me they've got the formula; not victims but turn despair and hopelessness into action
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/03/2020 - 2:02pm
Sadly CoCo seems to be awfully quiet the last 3 years - maybe more effective locally.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 01/03/2020 - 2:07pm
(Godis Rivera is Global Dir. Culture & Community @ Twitter)
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/28/2019 - 9:20pm
Is Rivera's Twitter gig an identity politics job?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 12:36am
Her job description does not include the word politics.
Indeed I would suspect she'd lose her job if she goes anywhere near.
One of your main problems is that you confuse the two. Just say no to culture wars in politics of the style basically invented by Lee Atwater. Culture change cannot be accomplished with politics, just the opposite. Communities can be torn asunder by politics, that's why we have private voting booths.
by artappraiser on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 3:35am
The follow-on tweet adds important context:
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 2:56am
Yes. "Influencers" = influencing the culture.
Edit to add: NOT politics. That includes Trump, that's what he does, or at least tries to do, culture wars, without very much thought about how it affects politics and governing, as he mostly cares about fans and ratings.
by artappraiser on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 3:44am
I simply meant I didn't get she was referring to their chance to do more eclectic creative careers, rather than law/doctor/engineer and her amazement was that it actually worked out (for some)
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/29/2019 - 5:04am
I know. I was just riffing off of what you said, sorry that wasn't clear.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 1:11am
Ah, riff-raff speak.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 1:51am
Rivera talks about using Twitter to influence the impact of black political groups.
It is clear that Rivera sees part of her job as fighting against an oppressive media
https://www.brandingmag.com/2017/10/08/black-twitter-why-cultural-perspective-is-important-to-advertisers/
We obviously see Rivera through two different lenses
The Black Panthers were definitely political
Edit to add:
A great deal of black poetry, for example, has been political protest.
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/freedom/1917beyond/essays/aaprotestpoetry.htm
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 9:15am
I think Black Panthers were better served with guns. You think twice about a chokehold when someone's armed. Somehow their communication was just fine.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 10:50am
I was addressing the separation between culture and politics. I think Rivera sees the two being entwined.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 12:02pm
It's all pretty self-congratulatory - "yo mama" jokes as the modern underground railroad or Black Freudian therapy? And didn't BLM and Kapaernick largely fail? Why 2+ years later should we be reading this with awe?
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 12:36pm
BLM has been helping elect district attorneys.
Kap's most recent sneaker line sold out on the first day of sale
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/23/colin-kaepernicks-new-nike-shoe-sells-out-on-the-first-day.html
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 2:33pm
Okay, electing DAs is a good fallback position.
Selling sneakers? Really?
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 4:08pm
BLM working to elect progressive district attorneys is not a dodge. Chicago paid over $800M since 2004 to police brutality lawsuits. Police brutality is ingrained and not going to magically disappear.
https://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2018/06/29/should-chicago-cops-have-to-carry-misconduct-insurance
Kaepernick still inspires, that is why the shoes and his Kunta Kinte T-shirts sell out. He won an award from the ACLU. Kap inspired worldwide protests.
https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/colin-kaepernick-receives-aclu-award
Megan Rapinoe was inspired by Kap and is inspiring others.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2019/11/12/megan-rapinoe-praises-colin-kaepernick-activism-glamour-speech/2576619001/
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 10:46pm
Her job is not to be a political activist but to promote "whatever floats your boat" among the targets chosen by Twitter Inc. Within behavioral guidelines as decided by Twitter, Inc. In order that Twitter Inc. profits somehow.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 1:15pm
I posted what she said about her goals. She hangs out in mostly black social media spaces.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 2:04pm
And I repeat this is not about politics, it's about culture and changes in culture. I am going to harp on it on this thread,the difference is important, it's the way culture changes in a capitalist society, by working with organizations looking to profit and working within the profit motive. It's not about politics or elections, it's about media and communication, public relations and advertising. They are separate.
Rivera's job is to grow the Twitter audience, to make communities that Twitter wants to attract to be happy and comfortable using their product :
Twitter hires God-is Rivera as global director of culture and community @ TechCrunch.com.,November 2, 2018
Is she supposed to censor people who want to communicate about politics? No, but only if they are just people and not actually political organizations: Twitter will ban candidate ads and limit issue ads, Nov. 15, 2019.
Trump is an outlier because instead of trying to get the largest number of votes from many demographics on political issues, creating a "big tent", and in not attempting to govern for a common good, he thinks like a p.r. or ad person manipulating a single demographic, creating desire for Brand Trump.
by artappraiser on Mon, 12/30/2019 - 4:09pm
I refer you back to her statement that things would have better if the Black Panthers had access to Twitter.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 9:07am
There is a big Twitter developer conference going on in Houston right now. Here are Godis Rivera's first tweets from there:
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/13/2020 - 5:13pm
Response to Flavius from above. Ted supervises black people. Ted gets rescued by black people. Black people serve a protective role in his life.
Trump says that he is the least racist person you will find. Trump name-checks Kanye as proving his point. Is Trump a racist?
An angry young man carrying a torch in Charlottesville says that he is not a racist, is he correct?
https://www.businessinsider.com/peter-cvjetanovic-white-supremacist-charlottesville-photo-not-angry-racist-2017-8
We have different visions of events. Mine may not be a popular view here, but I see my views as being valid.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 8:54am
Yes your view's been very clear for a couple years now: all conservatives are racists and anyone who voted for Trump is a racist, and they must all be shunned and shamed. To the point where whenever Flavius writes something about some conservative person of his acquaintance who he found a worthwhile person to know, you feel it important to continue to make this point on many other threads. As if harping on it might change Flavius' mind about his acquaintances or something.
by artappraiser on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 11:44am
Not trying to change Flavius' mind. Simply pointing out the futility of trying to convert Ted. When I talk about the fact that core Trump supporters cannot be transformed into Democrats, you tell me that you don't think core supporters are a rational target. Yet here you are supporting Flavius on poor shin kicked Ted. What is your conversion message to Ted? Racists don't tend to view themselves as racists. Racists will tell about their black friends.
I serve on a charity board with Trump supporters who think the impeachment is a farce. We voice our disagreements. No fistfights result. We eat lunch afterwards. I realize that the majority of these folks will not lift a finger to fight voter suppression. It is possible that some would agree with armed resistance if Trump is impeached or loses the election. They all have good characteristics. They serve on a charity board.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 12:02pm
I'm a registered Independent (since 1980) who has been reading your opinions for several years now and in general your attitude and approach really turns me off. To the point where if you liked and advocated for a political candidate who I had previously thought fine for office, I might think again about that candidate.
I think it says something major that you can't even convince me and you can't convince other dagbloggers, who are all liberals. I do think it's a good thing that the DNC hasn't hired you. On the other hand, I think Flavius would be a great advisor for them.
by artappraiser on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 12:22pm
You, obviously, are free you your opinion. Candidates I supported won. I don't think your pity olympics would play well. Democrats need more than condescending white voters.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 1:00pm
You are the one who wants to speak for all blacks this is why you see Diamond & Silk as independent thinkers.
You take snippets of statements by black writer like Roxane Gay and Ibram Kendi and be d their words to agree with your thoughts. God-is Rivera talks about targeting black voters and you see nothing political. Blacks have to agree with you or they are practicing identity politics. Only tribal people would disagree with you. You are the gold standard. Any deviation is pity olympics.
Blacks are selecting white Democrats, but you continue to yammer on about tribes and identity politics.
ICE raids opened job opportunities for blacks in a Mississippi town. Blacks realized that there were job openings, They felt empathy for the Hispanic workers. Identity politics focused on standing up for your rights, so that you could understand the plight of other groups. You constantly miss that point. Here are some comments:
And
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/us/mississippi-ice-raids-poultry-plants.html
The immigrants are doing jobs no one else wants to do.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 5:26pm
For the record:
This is not true: why you see Diamond & Silk as independent thinkers. I actually think they are clever shysters selling a faux independent thinking t hing to dumb white people. You are reading into past comments things that are not there.
And this is not true: You take snippets of statements by black writer like Roxane Gay and Ibram Kendi and be d their words to agree with your thoughts. I appreciate their work in trying to bridge cultural divides with essential human conditions like great literature often does.
And if it is the case that Godis Rivera is voicing a political preference, then she would have lost her job already. She is there simply to promote and support the use of Twitter by minority groups of all kinds of persuasions so that they are not drowned out by majority think.
Edit to add: and I am not interested in discussing any of this with you further. I am simply stating what I think is misinterpretation of my record here, for the record itself Because you consistently do the straw man thing to nearly all your correspondents here, either that or have very low reading comprehension. And that's a waste of time to continually argue that's not what I said or that's not who I am.
by artappraiser on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 6:19pm
You took Roxane Gay's comments about identity politics out of context.
https://www.brown.edu/news/2017-02-14/gay
Kendi would say that your pity olympics is ridiculous.
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750799889/ibram-x-kendi-racism-isnt-an-identity-its-what-youre-doing-in-the-moment
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 8:28pm
I think they both would be terrible advisors. rmrd with his they're all evil racists if they voted for Trump to Flavuis with his pollyanna-ish Rodney King can't we all just get along schtick. Fuck no we can't just get along and there are some I can never be nice to but there are some we can reach and we should reach out to them. But what do I know? I don't have a clue how to talk to anyone but a small group and I have trouble talking even to them.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 2:51pm
Ted has turned out to be a blank screen upon which rmr and others have projected unpleasant traits which they then criticize.
At no point did I write he was a racist.
You can look it up.
When the exchange continued I filled in some other details which without specifically refuting that charge pointed away from it.. Apparently insufficiently.
I indicated that he works with the developmentally disabled. The good lord or whomever arranges these things does not discriminate.The developmentally disables are fully integrated.
Not so true of care givers
Their work is skilled with its own specific demands. One is the physical requirement . A house I visit used to occasionally have broken furniture in front. Destroyed by one of the guys When tables and chairs are being broken the care givers are in danger. And depend on one another.
But the skill requirements are such that the care givers simply have to be smart.
Inevitably somewhat dangerous but skilled work means that overtime the positions are filled with a somewhat higher than normal mix of minorities.If need be I'll spell it out but I think the relationship is clear.
It follows you can't spend your career in an environment with physical demanding dangers working with people of different races and remain a racist.
There may not have been any atheists in fox holes. There aren't any racists as care givers in homes for the developmentally disabled
Happy New Year
by Flavius on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 4:40pm
I didn't address "Ted" in my post. In fact I never talked about ted anywhere in this thread. But this isn't your first blog in what I call your, "Let's just be nice to each other and it'll all work out" schtick. And several times I have disagreed with you. I'm not nice and I don't think just being nice will bring solutions. I want us to fight and fight hard for the principles and policies we believe in. Win or lose. Frankly I think the republicans play hardball and win more often than not. Then we get power and try to be nice and compromise and lose what we could have gained. The presidency, a huge majority in the house and 60 votes in the senate and all we got was Obamacare. The republicans change the world with much less than that when they barely eke out control.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 5:32pm
You can be a racist and be a physician or nurse, etc. It is called implicit bias. I'm tired of posting links, so you go hunt it on your own if you care. It causes black patients to receive a lower level of health care.
Regarding Ted, here is how support for him would come across in a political campaign. Your candidate has Ted as a major donor. The information that you provided us about Ted becomes public. Ted says that blacks were better off during slavery. Your candidate says that Ted is a good person. My candidate says we don't need a candidate who accepts donations from people with antiquated ideas, we are moving forward, not backward. Ted is an albatross.
Take, Tamika Mallory as a campaign spokesperson. Mallory cannot break from Farrakhan. Mallory is a good person. Farrakhan is a family man who has a "minor" defect of equating Jewish people with termites. My candidate says that anti-Semitism is a foul belief system.
Ted can be a racist. You presented Ted as someone who believes that enslavement was better for blacks. That belief is a white supremacist belief. I would love to have your candidate repeatedly present Ted as a "good" man. There is a book "Medical Apartheid" that discusses racism in medicine from slavery to today. One of the columns in the NYT 1619 Project focused on racism in medicine today. Being in health care does not mean that you can't be a racist.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 5:50pm
No.
In general , certainly not. . In the case we're discussing , yes.,
You're smart . Something caused you to get these things wrong.
Later
Too condensed
Clearly being in health care does indeed mean you can be a racist..They can be found
everywhere. So obvious that at my most extreme "can't we be friends"moment I wouldn't doubt that e.g.
many doctors are as racist as many bloggers.
Gotto watch those negatives.
Time to observe the arrival of the New Year.
by Flavius on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 9:25pm
Found one, earlier demagogic racist era.
BTW, The guy known for shooting 12 year old girls and machine gunning villagers is the latest (racist? war criminal?) rising Republican star.
by NCD on Tue, 12/31/2019 - 10:24pm
Hitler like any executive had an array of secretaries. Among themselves they would mock him. Go out of the room and then return walking like like him and using certain out-of-fashion expressions which he still employed, All the other secretaries laughed.
They knew it was his fault that the world was at war. "Oh yeah.Where's today typng?".
.Chief Gallagher is now enjoying himself. Played some golf, probably. The people he killed are dead of course. Trump knows may have asked , how many? But I doubt it. Some thing would have to have caused him to wonder about it.
Had you some particular reason to mention that?
...................................................................................................................
Auden knew ,that Melville knew that
Evil is unspectacular and always human
............and we are introduced to Goodness every day
He has a name like Billy....
And every time they meet the same thing has to happen; . It is Evil that is helpless like a lover . ...And has to pick a quarrel and succeeds .. .. . ... And both are openly destroyed before our eyes .
by Flavius on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 12:12am
Gallagher stands for what Trump represents. He kills kids, Trump locks kids up in cages and bullies children. It makes both of them feel big, feeds their egos.
It's Republican culture.
by NCD on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 1:29am
Trump seeks out moral boundaries and limits to good taste, and tramples them effusively with a scorning sarcastic nod to his norm-hating base.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 4:44am
If the Democratic Party justifies making racists and anti-Semites a target audience, they will become depraved like the Republicans. Looking for people who don't openly share racist or anti-Semitic ideology is not a purity test. It is called normal. There are remnants of a group who used to perform minstrel shows for charity. They were shamed into ending their performances. Many of these men are in their eighties. They still see nothing wrong writhing the minstrel. They are all good family men. They all think Trump is doing nothing wrong. One showed me a picture of Adam Schiff dressed as Barney Fife. I told him that Trump was a poor example for children and not worthy of being President. We agreed to disagree. These men are not persuadable. Fortunately, there are tons of rational white people and ethnic minorities to be sought out.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:58am
I fully respect your aversion to racists and anti semites.
I want any votes we can get from them in November.
If I knew an anti semitic or racist farmer disgusted with Trump's farm policy I would certainly tell him if we have a better one.
Later
Would I "target" Gallagher? If I knew he was going to vote against Trump I'd offer him a ride to the polls.Along with Billy Budd and Claggert.
by Flavius on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 10:06am
Flavius. You make no sense. You want votes yet you never built up the courage to speak to Ted to offer alternatives. You speak in riddles and hypotheticals. When it comes to getting votes, you will sit on the sidelines.
Edit to add:
What is your winning message to accomplish the magic conversion? What is your better plan for farmers?
Edit to add:
Telling a bunch of white supremacists that you have a better plan that does not include throwing ethnic minorities under the bus will not be an option. But as long as you can get their votes, you don't care about ethnic minorities. You will simply shout that there is a Democrat in office.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 11:17am
Everyone who voted for us last time was great. We should give each of them an "attaboy" sign.
Unfortunately there weren't enough.(of Dem voters- we have plenty of attaboy signs)
Some Trump-supporting- farmers (conservatve , maybe racist ,) suffered export losses last year when 'China cut purchases to punish Trump for his trade policies. I'd promise them we're going to fix that.
by Flavius on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 1:54pm
You mean we shouldn't be scolding and shaming our fair-weather friends? Where else we gonna pick up purity points? The other guys won't even talk to us.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 2:05pm
Democrats won the "fair weather friends" in the midterms and 2019.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 2:46pm
The Democrats did well in the midterms and in 2019. They did this without appealing to racists. The Democrats are already arguing health care and the negative impacts of tariffs. We need to target attaboys at Independents and Democrats who stayed home. They are going to have to deal with Democrats supporting culture war issues like not putting children in concentration camps, fighting voter suppression, and upholding women's rights.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 2:44pm
How about "not attacking Jews"- just might come up in our big tent politics while we're busy patting ourselves on our backs.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 5:27pm
I wasn't the one who thought excusing Mallory was a bright idea.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 7:50pm
Re: PP's comment upthread How about "not attacking Jews"
I admit I am really freaked out by this phenomenon--tribalism comes to Brooklyn & urban New Jersey--don't know what it means. NYC's famous tolerance is being lost once again. Reminds me of how powers that be during Reconstruction set poor whites against poor blacks or the Jay Gould quote I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other.
The syndrome is actually why anti-Semitism has existed for millenia in the first place. I.E. Jews killed our lord.
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 5:51pm
Back to pop culture (which isn't even the beginning topic of this thread, which is the change in high culture),
Snoop Dogg retweeted this:
Turns out Snoop and Martha also have a separate tweet account for their VH1 show:
https://twitter.com/MarthaAndSnoop
Celebrity is the new overclass? Once again, I would like to make the point that Beyonce and Jay Z were given the run of the Louvre, one of the jewels of the supposed white colonialist European culture, to do with what they liked:
https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2018/06/16/620705180/beyonce-and-jay-z-are-the-carters-in-apes-t-video
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 7:36pm
The final portrait in the video is of the only black woman in the museum who is not a slave.
https://hellogiggles.com/news/apeshit-challenges-erasure-black-culture-beyonce-jay-z/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:19pm
But if the Carters have anything to do with it, that time is coming to an end. exactly. given run of the Louvre museum to do so. Exactly the point: much progress has happened in the last decade. Rapid progress.
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:26pm
p.s. how can rmrd's readers not think he mourns for the victimhood of the past when he obsessively hunts for a minority that is prejudiced, wallows in it when he finds it, all he sees is lack of progress and spends all of this time trying to prove nothing has changed since 1965.
More than once I've been tempted to misappropriate the ghost of Spiro Agnew and yell geez what a nattering nabob of negativism. If there's something negative in a quote, he'll find it. And everyone at Dagblog is his enemy and he enjoys attempting to keep it that way. Everything is racist, racism rules the world.
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:33pm
Nope: Simply presenting a person's viewpoint.
What you see as victimhood, I see as joy in new historical interpretations. For example, you say that I am trapped in history. What I see are new historical investigations that correct the wrongs of the history we were taught in the past Investigations show that there were no black Confederate soldiers. The enduring legacy of the Lost Cause is being examined. There is also new data revealing how many black abolitionists favored armed rebellion. The major funding source for John Brown was a black woman. There are new discoveries, and more to come.
You are the one focused on making people victims. Blacks who do not agree with your limited bubble-based philosophy, are pity olympians or tribal. You, of course, are perfect.
You keep mentioning 1965, because you see progress. People born after 1965 are supposed to be satisfied with life in 2019. People in 2019 still see inequality, but you see pity olympics.
You see me as an enemy. I am merely arguing a different point of view.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 9:06pm
Uh, "rmrd's readers" r us.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 11:14pm
Flavius' "Ted" is not being kicked in the shins. Flavius gives him a pass in the workplace. His black co-workers apparently are unaware of what Ted thinks about them.
No Democratic Presidential candidate is kicking Ted in the shins
Ted likes what Trump is doing.
End of story.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 7:56pm
Maybe Ted doesn't want Sharia law that Fox News says Democrats have in Illinois.!!!!!
by NCD on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:13pm
LOL
I wonder why there is so much focus on appeasing wingnut s and no requirement that wingnuts recognize the feelings of others?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:16pm
Ran into a wingnut who said there was Sharia law in a town in Arkansas.
He couldn't name the town
A state legislator led an effort to make non-existent Sharia law illegal.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/04/what-harrison-arkansas-fight-with-the-kkk-says-about-the-alt-right.html
Arkansas has the town of Harrison that is trying to challenge the white supremacist who set up camp in the town
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/04/what-harrison-arkansas-fight-with-the-kkk-says-about-the-alt-right.html
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 8:31pm
Maybe Ted wants America to be Russian..!!! Better then being Demoncrat....!!!!
by NCD on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 8:18pm
Those are the patriots, ready to fight if Trump loses.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 9:08pm
"His black co-workers apparently are unaware of what Ted thinks about them"
Why would that bother them ? I've never said Ted is a racist-(you can look it up) just that he is very conservative.
As are many Blacks.
by Flavius on Wed, 01/01/2020 - 11:14pm
You are clueless. Your only function is to protect wingnuts.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 7:35am
Whatever.
Try lowering the volume. You undercut yourself when you make an error and rather than retracting it ,resort to abuse.
You invented the idea that Ted's a racist .Not based on what I'd written about him. Seemingly just pulled out of the air. Possibly because you confused him with some one else I described.
You can look it up.For the sake of your credibility you should, admit it , and move on.
As LaGuardia said " When I mistake,it's a beaut!" And they named an airport after him.
Try it.
by Flavius on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 1:53pm
That horse is well kicked - but is he dead yet? Maybe a few more boots in.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 3:25pm
Another boot. You said that he thought blacks were better off during slavery. I called him a racist. He harbors a racist idea. His black subordinates might be interested. You say that he is being kicked in the shins by some unknown force. You maintain that he is not a racist. I say that he is.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 3:40pm
A lot of mileage on someone you don't know, whose voice you've never heard, whose work you've never seen. How about give it a break, Mr. Guesswork? You have enough targets out there without digging up half- or quarter-baked ones.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 5:54pm
It's just textbook demonizing the other, just like racists and all tribalists, and just like Trump.
All you have to do is say someone is a Republican or a conservative and that means they are a racist too. Makes things simple. Just like Trump at a rally. Democrats good and not racist, Republicans and conservatives always evil racists.
The needling about whether Flavius got this mythical Ted to vote the "right" way, to me that's what's beyond the pale. As if political party and person were one and the same thing. I can't even imagine what that would be like in real life, to be a friend or relative of such a person who rags at ya about who are you gonna vote for like a litmus test of whether you are a worthwhile human being. Like a nasty wife beater telling his wife who she must vote for or get beaten that night or a boss who says vote this way or lose your job. Geez. To me the secrecy of the voting booth is sacred.
REALLY the type of behavior that causes more and more people to become Independents, disgusted by the partisan stereotyping and simple mindedness. Nobody can be a complex human being, they are all symbols of a race or a political party.
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 6:35pm
Yawn
Just like Trump coming from Ms pity olympics. You are not self-aware.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 7:15pm
I riffed off of Flav's description.
Edit to add:
Flavius said Ted thought blacks were better off during slavery.
That is a racist statement.
I suppose one could argue there are "good people" on both sides in that argument that better off during slavery
On the one hand, blacks had full employment. They also knew their work schedule
On the other hand, black slaves got whipped, could have their families torn away, and had no freedom.
"Good" arguments to be made on both sides.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 8:21pm
No.
Here's what I wrote " In the Car."
Instead you
o invent the idea that Ted' s a racist.
and
o that he said blacks were better off under slavery.
"Say it ain't so....." as a kid begged " Shoeless Joe"
If you just made a couple of mistakes, well nobody's perfect..
If instead you chose to repeat charges that you know are false , well I suppose "Peter unverified "
will say :" I told you so".
Which is it ?
by Flavius on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 9:50pm
doesn't matter what you said, he's got a demonizing narrative in his head and he's sticking with it and adding emotion-stirring hyperbole
JUST LIKE TRUMP
This is the game that demagogues play, whipping up tribes and partisans. Shit stirrers.
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/02/2020 - 8:47pm