MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough didn’t mince words Friday morning: He called Donald Trump “openly racist” and said that, by extension, so are his supporters.
In a segment on “Morning Joe,” Scarborough and co-host Mika Brzezinski ripped into the president for his actions.
“You’ve got Charlottesville, where Donald Trump of course defended white supremacists with moral equivalency,” Scarborough said. “Even this year, Donald Trump calling Hispanics ‘breeders.’ Just last week, saying that immigrants coming across the border were, quote, ‘infesting America,’ and no, he wasn’t talking about gang members.”
Scarborough then told Trump supporters they are just as bad as the president regarding racial issues.
“[Trump supporters] cannot say, ’Oh, I’m just supporting him because he’s giving them hell in Washington, D.C.,” Scarborough said. “No, he’s been openly racist, just like we said back in December of 2015, openly racist. If you support him, then you’re supporting that, and you are that. It’s that simple. That’s what we’ve come to now.”
Comments
The best point put forward in this episode of Morning Mika starts at 9:45 where Donny Deutsch says that the message pushing back is not about Trump anymore but about who we are.
It is time to put the question of the deplorable vote to the test.
by moat on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 4:34pm
Evil has to be called out. Trump supporters have to be called out. Appeasement is not an option.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 7:39pm
Or they can speak for themselves.
No name calling required.
Identity politics like it ought to be.
by moat on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 7:48pm
"Once upon a time my name was called,
and no one understood it as mine."
So the next time, as he recalled,
he decided to draw the line.
by barefooted on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 8:09pm
Don’t understand the reference.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 8:45pm
As with anything, rm, the reading is in the mind of the reader - just as wine on the palate. I can't explain it to you.
by barefooted on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 11:28pm
Wine descriptions are plentiful. That is how you learn to interpret what another person is tasting. Some people never detect bell pepper but still correctly identify Cabernet Sauvignon from multiple countries. Don’t have to have ever sniffed cat’s pee to identify Sauvignon Blanc.
A hint?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 11:40pm
Does the fact that I like the taste of Sauvignon Blanc require that I understand that others might detect the odor of cat's pee (I honestly have no clue about the whole pee thing)? Do I have to detect, or not, the notes of bell pepper in Cabernet Sauvignon in order to appreciate it? My answer is no to both, and that's my answer to you about what I wrote that you don't get. No, I can't explain it to you. If you get it, great, if you don't, move on.
by barefooted on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 12:21am
Sigh. Joe and Mika make a statement that Trump is a racist. They also say that people who still support Trump cannot escape the taint of racism. I obviously agree with those statements. I think they are modern echoes of what Martin Luther King Jr. said about supporters of Barry Goldwater. King said that people of good conscience could not vote for Goldwater. Goldwater was in agreement with state’s rights. Trump was sued for housing discrimination. never apologized for wanting the innocent Central Park Five, said Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States, wanted a snipe hunt for voter fraud, and is now responsible for imprisoning toddlers. He is a racist as pointed out by Joe and Mika.
People who still support Trump cannot distance themselves from racism. I don’t understand why there is dancing around about this. Goldwater supporters could not escape ties to states rights. Trump supporters cannot escape ties to racism. Some of our fellow citizens are in the grasp of evil.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 1:29am
I get that. All of it. What does it have to do with my little piece of poetry that you didn't get? Or my response to your lack of understanding?
by barefooted on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 1:38am
I am attempting to make sure that I understood what you are saying. I think communication is very important, especially in the data of Trump. If people object to being called racists, they might try not supporting a racist, if I get the meaning of your riddle.
Joe and Mika have a national audience, they are the ones who called Trump and his supporters racists. I happen to agree with them, but I’m not the one who put the comment on the national stage.I posted another article about Jason Johnson, an MSNBC contributor. Johnson feels that Democrats are not trustworthy because they are not standing up to Republican bigotry and racism. I link to Mika and Joe’s comments and get a response that I am the one creating discord, not Trump and his supporters.
The theme at dagblog runs along the lines that we are in normal times. At news sites with majority black audiences, alarm bells are going off. Polling suggests white people feel oppressed. When you look at who runs corporations, access to education, wealth. etc. whites do better than blacks in every category. Black incomes are much lower than white incomes. What oppression? Blacks are being told on a daily basis to stay in their place. A most recent episode involves a black doctor in a suburban Atlanta gated community who was blocked entry into the community by a white guy who was certain the doctor didn’t belong. So, wait for it, the white guy calls the police on the doctor. The Supreme Court just upheld Ohio’s voter purge that mainly targets minority communities. Kris Kobach continues to search for voter fraud in Kansas. The voter fraud targets minority communities.
The attack on minority communities is active. Johnson is frustrated that the Democratic Party is not confronting the GOP. Joe and Mika said that Trump is a racist and that his supporters can’t escape the label. The statements are either true or they are false. Trump,approval stands at 42.4% at 538 today, a slight uptick.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
Trump’s racism comes with benefits. People are siding with the racist. Minorities feel under seige and think that this is being treated as just another day rather than something that needs to be addressed.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 9:47am
We are not in normal times. An authoritarian regime is in power. Trump supporters are OK with this. They have to be called out by name. Not calling them what they are is not going to magically make them change.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 10:51am
What?
by moat on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 2:28pm
We are still trying to make nice.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 3:27pm
If we don't say that every Trump voter is a racist and that racism is the only reason Trump won and that no one should ever try to get even one Trump voter to change his mind then we're acting as if everything is normal and trying to play nice. it's a ridiculous theory you're spreading here and you lose credibility with every post.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 4:06pm
Agree with this. And also, I believe you once pointed out how counter-productive it is, I totally agree with that.
I think part of the counterreaction of suburban whites getting this attitude like they are the new misunderstood minority that nobody defends is because they feel liberal culture at large is too often calling them racist for not being on the barricades calling out racists everyday. Many of these types are actually not tribal, they don't feel responsible for everyone else's troubles, that's why they moved to the suburbs, to live a nuclear family life apart from tribes. Includes black surburbans being called names for not wanting to be on the tribal barricades, either Keep forcing the tribe thing on them, whites they are not going to go with urban blacks, precisely because they already feel hated and not wanted. Suburban blacks may have a bigger range of reactions, some solidarity, some not.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 6:09pm
Oh I’m so upset. Trump backed down when he was punched in the face. When his minions talked about Biblically based imprisonment of children, summer camps, etc, they were identified as bigots. Truth to power worked.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 9:46pm
As usual your comment doesn't address anything I wrote. No one here thinks these are normal times. My comment stands, unless we embrace your every point about Trump voters you act as if we are quislings. You're not speaking truth to power here.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 10:39pm
No, wait, are you absolutely sure we have not a single member left here with any power? You got me wondering if like, over at redstate.org, do they still have some power people or are they all powerless power shirkers like us?
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 11:13pm
You got it backwards. When I said rmrd wasn't speaking truth to power I meant he wasn't speaking the truth. I'm sure most of us are movers and shakers in the corridors of power.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 11:44pm
That didn't happen because of name calling with words like "racist" to counter Trump. This is now general consensus about how that happened.
That more people on right of the aisle are labeling him that way is welcome news, no one here at Dag disagrees with that, so it is unclear why you hector our little group about it as if we do. It is a chicken and egg thing to be sure. But probably most of us have been around the blogosphere long enough to think that liberals lobbing the label racist at others, even from big websites with power to get coverage or viral activity does not effect a damn thing in reality. Yelling "racist" certainly hasn't managed to affect immigration law in liberals' favor.
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 12:58am
It's more like we on Dagblog don't feel like we are each other's enemy nor do we need to preach at each other. It's a nice little online club for reading the news together and posting a blog once in a while to try out thoughts and things.
What really puzzles me: who is your audience when you feel the need to rag on and on and on, stuff that everyone here already knows? To lecture and preach whitey here? Don't you get that you are not talking to a huge audience here? Why do you keep yelling at our little club?
If we knew you were practicing, trying out memes, for a bigger audience somewhere else, you should welcome other members criticism about how you communicate. But you don't, you take offense. It's like you want to fight, you want to turn us into enemies to fight with. I just don't think the other members here get what you are trying to do, and often it is very insulting to our intelligence, as if we are the dumb whitey Trump voters.
The few times we've had a pro-Trump troll, you disappear. It's sometimes really does seem like this: you attack friendlies you want to turn into enemies. You think we are all dumb about black people and want to educate us, it's very insulting. That's how it often comes across to me.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 5:28pm
Not preaching. Simply telling the truth. Appeasement dose t work.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 9:47pm
I figure you mean making nice to racist people.
Yeah, I go out every day to make sure they feel great about their worldview while assuring them that nobody will harm their way of life if they simply agree to a program where nobody has to give up anything to get everything they want.
Our nation may not survive this episode. Normalize that.
by moat on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 7:01pm
moat, I think that Trump was elected more because of racism than economic stress. I do sense an argument that we should not call out racists because that will magically alienate the racists. I linked the article from Max Boot to point out that. I am not alone in taking that position.
Don Lemon
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/05/29/don-lemon-roseanne-normalized-racism-sot-erin.cnn
Reverend Al Sharpton
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/rev-sharpton-roseanne-tweet-shows-trump-normalizing-racism/vp-AAy02ut
Steve Schmidt
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/roseanne-normalized-racism-in-the-age-of-trump-1244100163713
What zI have been expecting is more of the blunt statements that have come from the mouths of Joe, Mike, and Rob Reiner, and more actions like the restaurant owners who showed Trumpets the door.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 8:00pm
Shall we synchronize these blunt statements into a chant like the way they do at Trump rallies?
If I disagree with your account of who thinks what, does that mean I have appeased evil doers? Will you trace the shadow of my failed litmus test on a screen with a marker and say you know where I am coming from?
I am inclined to tell you to go pleasure yourself but that is pretty meaningless. You owe me nothing. I am not even your enemy. My anger is a precious resource best saved up for when it it is needed to shove my tired ass where it would rather not be. When the time comes, I might need your help. You might need mine.
And if I was your enemy, what will be gained from hating me? It is natural to hate enemies. I have hated many of mine. But I have noticed that their victory or defeat doesn't have much to do with those emotions. The important thing about a fight is to survive it. The enemy doesn't need to be stomped upon over and over again until they cry uncle. The victory is their defeat.
Gotta go. I hear there are some frightened racists in Ohio who need a lullaby and a comfort bear.
There is just no rest for the wicked.
by moat on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 5:43pm
RM, did you see the young black woman (from France) who jogged across the unmarked US / Canada border, north of Seattle, Washington state, on the beach, (in jogging attire, no backpacks, guns or ISIS flags) was jailed for 2 weeks in ICE prisons before being released back to Canada? ...(brownie points for arrests, slow day?)
Agree on Dag level of concern with Trump. Ramona has it right.
by NCD on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 5:26pm
Just to be clear to followup on what I just said in the previous comment, things like this don't bother me in the list, nor do I think it bothers anyone else here Agree on Dag level of concern with Trump. Ramona has it right. It's a site for talking about and analyzing political stuff and we do disagree when we have an opinion and it doesn't bother anyone unless it's constant attack mode. And I just think rmrd too often gives off attack mode as in "you at dagblog are all stupid, wake up!!! doncha know this, doncha know that". But we do know that and do know this. Some want to share their opinion, some don't. It may just be a communication problem, I just don't know. Have not encountered this kind of animosity ever with any of my black and mixed race relatives and friends, nor with Danny Cardwell. Don't get it, and when it gets too strident, don't like it, because: we are all supposed to be friends here, no? Not children to be lectured to, and not to be made into strawmen enemies.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 5:38pm
In conversations with my black friends and family, the disappointment that Trump is President and the horror over his actions is constant. WaPo’s Courtland Milloy noted how frequently comments about race entered into conversations with his black friends. I have an identical experience. Ta-Nehisi Coates calls Trump the first white President. A majority of Americans think that Trump is a racist. For most people, Trump’s psychological torture program at the border merely confirm what people already believe. Max Boot says Trump is normalizing racism. Coates, Mika, Joe, Rob Reiner, Max Boot, etc. are all saying in public what my family has been saying among themselves. Calling out the racists and bigots is important. You can’t be nice when an authoritarian government is in place. The racist term is already in play when it comes to describing Trump. There was a shaming of DHS Secretary at a Mexican restaurant in D.C. Sarah Huckabee Sanders was refused service at a restaurant in Virginia. People are not obligated to be polite to bigots. Private conversations about Trump often use harsh language.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 12:58pm
Calling out racism is healthy from a psychological standpoint.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2018/01/16/calling-out-racists-is-good-for-your-health-according-to-science-heres-how-to-do-it/?utm_term=.55dba6148911
Edit to add:
Jeff Sessions says the actions at the border are Biblical. It was impersonating for Christians to disagree.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 2:36pm
Sorry to be so late replying. I hadn’t heard the story. Thanks for pointing me to the story.
It’s funny, Blacks that I talk to wonder when whites are going to get angry and show some passion regarding Trump. (Public Service Announcement: I do not speak for all blacks).
Edit to add:
Two weeks in prison is outrageous
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 8:29pm
"Der Führer kann nicht versagen, er kann nur versagt werden."
"Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed." ICE Mission Statement.
by NCD on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 10:03pm
See below
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 10:30pm
This is so ridiculous and I think you know it. Whites are obviously angry and demonstrably so. The protests at Trump's inauguration were mostly white women. The videos that I've looked at of the protests at ICE detention centers are mostly white people. I don't know what you think you gain from posting these lies and this endless bullshit.
There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 11:26pm
My posts address Trump supporters.
Edit to add:
The actual calling out the racism by name is relatively new.
Edit to add:
Polls of blacks indicate they sense increased racism and that whites aren’t stepping up.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/what-black-voters-want/559775/
You are angry at me, I’m only reporting what is happening out in the real world.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 12:19am
It’s funny, Blacks that I talk to wonder when whites are going to get angry and show some passion regarding Trump.
That does not read as though you're addressing Trump supporters. It reads as uninformed, at best, and exactly as ocean-kat described, at worst. It also comes across as almost Trump-like: "people are saying ...".
Whether calling racism by its name openly is relatively new or not, it is happening.
by barefooted on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 12:13am
Barefoot, read the link that precedes your post.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 12:21am
This is what I intended to post but you beat me to it. And not just in this post but in almost every post it never seems like rmrd is talking about Trump supporters. It seems, as arta put it, that he is lecturing the white people here and in general.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 1:01am
I posted a link to a poll of black people and pasted a paragraph.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 7:54am
Have you ever written poetry, rm? To me, it's completely unique - unlike any other sort of writing. It's personal, it's often stream of thought and is almost always up to interpretation by the reader. The particular "riddle" that has you so befuddled almost wrote itself, and was a play off of moat's piece/comment/poem. Think of it like a song ... not an article. Poetry almost never has a strict play-to-the reader foundation, and when it does have a strict format (like a haiku, for example) the content is still virtually infinite. Song lyrics are like that, too; are you a Dylan fan?
None of this will make sense to you if your answer to my original question is no. Though it strikes me that your writing style might be suitable for poetry readings that have more of a beat vibe - a steady drumming of sound and fury that when spoken is exceedingly powerful.
Last comment about my four lines: read them again. Then again. Then on the third go-round, contemplate whether your original reaction remains the same.
by barefooted on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 6:22pm
I’m sorry that I don’t understand your poem. I think we have crossed the Rubicon when it comes to Trump. I find it very important to note that he is a racist authoritarian. So the response to “is Trump Trump a racist?” is yes. The answer to whether his supporters are racist is “yes”. The trains may run on time. The market may go up. The answer to the two questions remains “Yes”. Not a poet. And I know it. So I ask questions.
To me, Dylan mumbles
Edit to add:
it is important to remember the character of the Trump’s. Asking which Trump is trustworthy is like asking which member of Tony Soprano’s family you trust.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/23/2018 - 10:13pm
To me, Dylan mumbles
Yeah, I think so, too, but when I read his lyrics they are often mesmerizing ... soul changing. So it goes with interpretation of thought, as with poetry - each to his own. I wrote this:
Was the man quoted a white man? A black man? A Jew? A Muslim? How was his name called, and how was it misunderstood? What line did he draw?
What's your interpretation, rm? I said I wouldn't comment again ... but I can't help one last try.
by barefooted on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 12:45am
You didn't ask others to pipe in. I happen to think of him as one of the greatest troubadors of all times. But what I think isn't interesting, I think it's more interesting to read Obama on Dylan being that he was a multi-culti globalist child. And his mother was probably a fan. And usually children reject the music tastes of their parents....
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 1:15am
This is Dag ... asking isn't required. ;-)
by barefooted on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 1:22am
Okay, I take it back - skip your next wine tasting and read Dylan's "Chronicles" - no need to complain about "mumbling" there - it comes through loud and clear. And as a bonus, I imagine you'll even severely enjoy it, whether you'll admit it or not.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 2:23am
Are you saying we should be nice to racists? Trump’s approval is increasing.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 8:54pm
What?
I cannot read my words back to myself in any way that could suggest such a thing.
by moat on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 8:59pm
We can let them speak for themselves.
who are you saying should speak?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:09pm
In the context of referendums, as noted in the discussion of mid term elections in the linked discussion on the video clip, the suggestion was put forward to frame the question directly to the people. Is this who you choose to be? Is this what you want done in your name?
by moat on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:39pm
Thanks for clearing things up, moat.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:47pm
Are you, rmrd, saying once non-racist people are being turned into racists overnight?
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:15pm
The majority of Republicans are in favor of Trump’s tactics on immigration. Trump’s approval is going up. What is your explanation?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:15pm
Is that a yes? Or classic rmrd redirection when he doesn't want to answer? You're the one who started with the "J'accuse! Explain yourself!" interrogations here. I'm turning back on you. Answer the question, explain yourself. Moat and barefooted were just innocently playing with poetry talk to each other and you are like this paranoid who is worried that there might need be some hidden code in their words that needs to be pried out of them and then they have to be lectured on the dangers of racism. As far as I know, this is not a site for call and response affirmation. Not everyone comes here to scream "the sky is falling!" in order to get "amen!" Art explained is no art at all. If you don't understand it, just let them be. I was enjoying their interaction until the Stasi interrogation by you started.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:24pm
If people are still supporting Trump. They are supporting racism. Nothing has changed on that. I asked questions of moat and barefooted because I did not make a connection.
A majority of Trump supporters agree with separating children from the parents.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-family-separation-poll_us_5b293726e4b0f0b9e9a5d72e
Trump separated children from their parents. The sky IS falling. There are children still separated from their parents.
Do you not see racism in Trump’s action?
Edit to add:
Let me make it clear
You cannot be a Trump supporter and separate yourself from racism.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:36pm
Yamiche Alcindor, a PBS reporter, was on Chris Hayes’ MSNBC tonight. She attended Trump’s rally in Duluth earlier this week. She noted that many supported separating children. She did find some who were glad that Trumped backed down. Others were planning protests against Trump’s tactics.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-trump-rally-supporters-say-about-family-separation
When she was on “All In” tonight, she emphasized the support for separating children. The poll above is probably a more accurate reflection of the percent support for separating children.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/22/2018 - 9:59pm
I’m going to read some of Dylan’s lyrics. As a non-poet, I do find the diversion here amsusing.Joe and Mika called Trump and his supporters racists. The conversation gets diverted to Dylan. I find it amusing that I am accused of diverting discussions. A theme here seems to be that Trump’s deplorables are redeemable. I disagree. The economy is doing well, Conservative judges are being appointed, minorities are being put in there respective places. Babies are imprisoned. People of good conscience have already fled the Republicans. What convincing message do you have to convert the Trump supporters to Democrats?
Is Trump a racist? Are his supporters racist?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 10:00am
You brought up Dylan, with a traditional dismissive phrase. Again, if you're not a poet, or even if you are, read Chronicles - it'll take you into a familiar world and shine new light on it. He covers lots of names known and unknown, but it all comes out insightful and an evolving journey, signposts, not namedropping. Did you know Richie Havens used to get more tips than Dylan by having a good looking girl pass the hat? Little tricks and lessons the midwest kid had to learn in that brave new Bohemian NY world. In his 50's he almost punted on a tour with the Grateful Dead, but by chance walked out and into a noon session with a black blues singer and discovered a new way of pacing and delivering his voice that recreated his career. Pure magic.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 11:09am
I said I would read Dylan.
They are having a rally protesting the actions of the Trump administration today at the border in Texas.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 11:12am
Prose, not pros.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 11:28am
Thanks for the tip. I ordered a soft-cover copy from abebooks.com for less than $4 including shipping!
by CVille Dem on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 5:00pm
Rob Reiner is on A.M. Joy this morning. He is accompanied by his wife. Both are at the site of a rally at the border in Texas. Both have the courage to call what is going on at the border pure racism. This is meant to fire up his base.
Goodwin himself suspended his law when it came to Trump and his cohort.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/6/19/1773355/-The-creator-of-Godwin-s-law-believes-our-current-administration-can-be-called-Nazis
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/24/2018 - 11:09am
Response to NCD (corrected initially had moat)
Trump supporters are doubling down.
NPR
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/amid-outrage-at-family-separations-trump-supporters-dig-in
NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/republican-voters-trump.htm
The only option is to resist.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/25/2018 - 8:57am