MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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From One Nobel Peace Prize Winner to Another
By HSG on Tue, 05/10/2016 - 6:24pm |URL:
http://www.thenation.com/article/the-obama-administration-just-granted-henry-kissinger-a-distinguished-public-service-award/
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I just lost a rather long comment and it is probably just as well. If I could actually find the words to express my true feelings about that no-goo MF'n waste of allegedly human skin it would be an actual demonstration of hateful invective that might well get the rules changed around here about what can be said about public figures. I have despised that psychopathic prick for as long as I have known anything about him and a recent reading of Greg Grandon's book about him only piled on the contempt I feel. Now I find that the undead monster is getting an award for distinguished service when it is a black mark on our country that he is even allowed to live in and amongst supposedly civilized people. I don't even get the satisfaction of despising a Republican administration for awarding it.
Here is a review of a partial read of his authorized biographers recent book. Oh yeah, we should remember that Hillary is proud of him as a confidant and mentor and he is proud of her for her past and expected future, [after we elect her] "accomplishments" in foreign policy.
by A Guy Called LULU on Tue, 05/10/2016 - 9:54pm
[ToS warning ad hominem attacks, C'ville. This is your final warning. The next will be a one-week suspension]
by CVille Dem on Tue, 05/10/2016 - 10:41pm
I think Hilary's praise for Kissinger centered around helping her gain insight on China. It also appears Kissinger helped Hillary persuade Netanyahu apologize to the Turkish people for the deaths of Turkish people in a Gaza flotilla.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/12/hillary-clintons-...
Sanders praised Fidel Castro and the Sandinistas, but he wasn't supporting authoritarian government.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 05/10/2016 - 11:12pm
Hal, Your dislike of Obama and Hillary is very clear. Bernie Sanders remains in the race, damaging Hillary. She has to run against both Trump and Bernie. The hatred for Democratic elites including the Congressional Black Caucus is so great among Sanders supporters that I see no solution other than the formation of a Tea Party style organization on the Left where Sanders supporters can fight for their purist goals. Seeing how the uncompromising Tea Party on the Right produced Trump, I am not hopeful that a party of no compromise on the Left will be any better.
http://www.thenation.com/article/its-time-for-a-tea-party-of-the-left/
Sanders will likely have impact on the Democratic Party platform which nobody reads. He may be able to force her to the Left on certain issues from his position in the Senate. I doubt that anything President Hillary Clinton does will satisfy hardcore Sanders supporters.
Do you disagree?
Edit to add:
This was to be a stand alone comment, not a response to LULU
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 8:02am
A given re: Timor and Bangladesh, it's hard to see the point against Reagan in Europe and Afghanistan - he largely tripped up the Soviet Union, and it was mostly Iraq and Iran's fault for their decade-long stupid war dominating the Mideast. Supplying Saudi Arabia was a trivial piece in the regional buildup - Hussein and the Shah weren't. Yeah, Mossadegh in the 50's, I can't write that one away, nor the Shah, but Kissinger didn't create that situation. Funny to point to the US provoking Russia in Afghanistan when Russia had invaded, initially unprovoked, and had no problem assassinating the leader and replacing with a friendly one.
It's rather starnge to read this line "revived Cold War" right after I wrote a long email dissecting the fall of the Soviet Union. The Cold War in the 80's was largely the *GOOD* Cold War, at least in Europe, with its rapid de-escalation of tensions despite the initial protests over nukes in Europe, and the fall of the wall by 1989. Sure, Nicaragua had cause for land reform and economic support, but $3 billion in Russian military aid and turning into a Cuban clone wasn't the route. (While Reagan's comment on tanks driving 2 days to Texas in 10 hours, the Cuban-led land-presence in Central America in light of Angola & Che's attempt to spread revolution in South America the mid-60's wasn't a laughing matter. And Russia never took kindly to any kind of near threat, such as out of Helsinki for example).
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:06am
Hal, not surprisingly, jumps on the Nobama mud slinging clown car.....again.
The Hal Link: The Obama Administration Just Granted Henry Kissinger A Distinguished Public Service Award.
Please note: Obama did not nominate, approve, sign or give this award to Henry Kissinger.
It is called The Department of Defense Medal for Distinguished Public Service.
The President, no President, has the authority to give this award.
Your title Hal - "From One Nobel Peace Prize Winner to Another" is a lie.
It is the product of prejudice, and a habit of grasping at any event, without delving into the facts, in order to malign the target, in this case Obama.
This award originates in the Pentagon, is approved in the Pentagon and given by the Pentagon.
It does not go to the President's desk for approval.
The award is given by the Secretary of Defense, in this case Ashton Carter, who himself received the award 5 times. Yes, 5 times, I have no idea how many of these 'awards' have been given but it is likely far into the tens of thousands since it was started in 1947.
Kissinger was given the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 by President Gerald Ford.
by NCD on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 1:54am
Pisses me off - Steven Spielberg got his for "Saving Private Ryan", but Kissinger didn't even have to make a film. $70 mill it cost Steve, and he had to personally storm Utah Beach. And then they gave it to the Minister of Defense for Norway, the one who had to resign. Like what's next, awards for mooses? I understand why W. Bush got one - he gave the Army a decade's worth of work when it was largely sitting around idle, with a helluva budget too. Of course it would have been better not to declare him a civilian in the middle of his Reserve Duty, but the exceptions make the rule, no?
(should have given Coppola one for Apocalypse Now - at least the original, not the more boring Director's Cut. Napalm in the morning, baby - & Charlie don't surf)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 9:14am
In hopes of keeping tensions here at a reasonable level and to allow me a few minutes daily for other tasks, I will refrain from my previous practice of responding seriatim to comments addressed at me. Instead, going forward I plan to post one or two general replies at most to a number of comments on my posts when I think it's appropriate.
So here goes:
One commenter argues the award conferred on Kissinger is from the Department of Defense so Obama isn't responsible for it. To his credit, Obama has been a remarkably involved President. It seems that little or nothing of consequence occurs without his knowledge and approval. He appointed Ash Carter to the office of Secretary of Defense last year. While I could not confirm or disprove the commenter's claim that the President doesn't formally approve or sign the awards, I would be astonished if Carter gave the highest civilian award the Pentagon can confer to a lightning rod like Henry Kissinger without his Commander in Chief's knowledge and approval.
Another commenter claims I posted the Nation's article because I dislike President Obama and Hillary Clinton. I was not thinking of Clinton when I posted the article and while President Obama has disappointed me, I do not bear personal animus towards him. That said, Henry Kissinger is responsible for many of our worst foreign policy actions, including overthrowing democratically elected Presidents in order to install military tyrants and the deaths of millions of civilians. It is shameful that this administration chose to honor him.
by HSG on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:53pm
Hal, NCD, rmrd000, and anyone else actually interested, I composed a response last night to NCD and decided to wait until this morning and consider it again before posting. One of my main points copied and pasted below, was just what you said here.
I do not believe for one instant that President Obama first learned of the award given by Carter to Kissinger after it was a done deal and I don’t believe that Carter gave the award over the objections of Obama. I do believe our President approved the award either overtly or tacitly. The award of The Department of Defense Medal for Distinguished Public Service to Kissinger is an act of our government decided by and/or approved at the highest level of our government by a President we elected. Hal’s headline is essentially accurate. The only way it could be feasonably considered to be inaccurate is if the arguably most important department of our government is beyond President Obama’s direction and control.
The other point I though important I will rephrase here. The actions which I and millions of other people around the world believe to be war crimes and crimes against humanity happened. If they are as I describe them it is a further wrong to now honor one of the two people most responsible. If Kissinger is deserving of an award for his "service", [scare quotes being quite appropriate, I believe] that is one thing. If he is responsible for the commission of tremendously consequential crimes, that is quite another thing and the difference is certainly important. If it is the first thing then it is about as important and noteworthy as were the several parade ceremonies I stood in at Ft. Hood as part of the constructed gloss of honor around such crap as a Colonel giving another Colonel a Bronze Star for his efficient running of the base’s mess halls. If it is the second thing, then to construct any edifice of honor and symbolize it with a high award is quite another thing. I see no reconciliation between the two possibilities. I think of NCD and rmrd0000, and anyone else, if they bother to react strongly to criticism of the award, should state whether or not they believe Henry Kissinger is a criminal. The answer makes a very significant difference as to the nature of who and what they are actually defending and of who and what they are actually attacking.
by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 11:26am
LULU, among other things Nixon and Kissinger likely prevented LBJ from making a deal to end the Vietnam War. Is Kissinger a criminal? Kissinger is not going to jail. Should Hillary Clinton made use of Kissinger to make inroads in China and Israel? Yes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow...
Edit to add:
Left out an important word
Is Kissinger a criminal? Yes.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 11:59am
rmrd, here is a lot more detail on Nixon's treason involving the Vietnam Peace Talks. Notice that it was published two years before the column by George Will. Kissinger was deeply involved though that involvement is not detailed here.
One doesn't have to look very closely to see that this sort of politics enabled by a complete abstraction of the lives of countless "others", and not only foreign others, is still a major factor in creating the world situation as it exists today. I cannot respect the candidacy of a person who would admire, respect Henry Kissinger and seek his council going forward.
I have gone back and forth regarding whether I could/would vote for the lesser evil. Right now I am in the mood to follow my conscience. Today's realistically available choice on the Democratic side is not enough of a lesser evil for me. I will not vote for it. My objections to choosing the lesser evil this time only coincidentally are the same ones I believe I would be obligated to act on were I a believing Christian.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 05/14/2016 - 11:21am
I agree with you and therefore I won't be voting for Nixon.
Follow your conscience by all means. Martin Luther King Jr looked at Barry Goldwater like I look at Donald Trump. Martin Luther King Jr. said that a moral person could not vote for Goldwater. King worked with LBJ on the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. I will vote for Hillary Clinton with an open conscience.
I noted that there are some purity Progressives who differ very little from Christian fundamentalists. The purists and fundamentalists are always willing to promenade their moral superiority. My faith tradition tells me that we are never going to have prefect political candidates. On a secular level this translates as the lesser of two evils is less evil. LBJ was better than Goldwater. Gore and Kerry were better than GW Bush. Obama was better than McCain or Romney. I will take great personal pleasure in knowing that I did not fail to cast a vote against a bigot and a racist, just like Martin Luther King Jr could not stay on the sidelines and not oppose a man like Goldwater who sought support from white supremacists. I have no moral conflict.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 05/14/2016 - 11:55am
Rodney Frelinghuysen got it in 2013. Ehud Barak got it in 2012. Emile Lacroix got it in 2014. Richard Danzig received it 3 times. Robert Hastings got it in 2009. Melvin Laird got it. Beth McGrath got it. Kim Jang-soo, Korean defense minister got it. Norwegian defense minister got it. Chris Jackson, photographer got it. Would be easier if there were an obvious list of who's received it, but couldn't find one. This is probably the first time that more than 7 people cared about who got it.
This search link brings up a fair number of awardees at DoD - not so rare.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:18pm
Though you do not call that list of recipients criminals you seem to be one of those who do not care or believe that it is significant that Kissinger is now on it. I am of course open to correction if that is the case. But, your response seems much like one of the positions taken by Kissinger’s authorized biographer, Nail Ferguson, as reported by Barret Brown. Ferguson says in effect that there are so many criminals so why make an issue of Kissinger being one.
I'll add here, though it is not strictly pertinent to your response, some snips from the wikipedia description of the award which NCD already pointed out above. Some parts made me chuckle at what I see as the black humor of this particular case. Emphasis is mine.
All relationships mentioned are with appointees of our President.
by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:42pm
Hal's 'From One Nobel Peace Prize Winner to Another" is not accurate, it intentionally misstates the facts I stated above for the sole purpose of a 'guilt by association' smear of Obama's character and conduct as President.
Association on the level of, somebody in the government gives an apparently common, largely inconsequential 'award' and Obama is maligned because the awardee did very bad stuff decades ago.
Which likely has nothing to do with why he is receiving the award in 2016, which is often given 5 or more times to the same person, sort of like a 'best worker of the quarter award' in 1st grade.
I have posted blogs critical of Obama in the past, for instance, on a DOJ Supreme Court Amicus Brief on hourly worker pay at places like Amazon. A legal position of administration policy I disagreed with.
I try to take an unbiased look into the facts.
Some around here never seem to.
by NCD on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 12:40pm
If you seriously would like to keep tensions here at a reasonable level all you have to do is stop making comments like, " Look, she's horrible. We can still work together if Clinton supporters will simply acknowledge the absolutely ugly truth about her. "
You make a pretense of focusing on the issues and the evidence but this is not an issue and there is no evidence to support it. Sanders and his team would never make this point in negotiations with Hillary for his support. While you might find a few other Bernie Bros to latch onto it the vast majority of Sanders supporters would reject it. It's nonsense. No one but you will ever seriously propose it and no Hillary support will ever consider it.
There is one purpose and one purpose only for this statement. To attack Hillary supporters here, to provoke an angry response. So when you cry about the attacks you get from Hillary supporters here be aware that we know you deliberately provoke them.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 3:53pm
Ocean-kat, the discussion about Hal's behavior or that of any other bloggers stops now. If you want to engage with his argument, engage. If he annoys you too much to stick to the content, don't engage. Otherwise, you can take a week off from dagblog. It's your choice.
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 4:13pm
For most Hillary supporters, the biggest threat facing the country is Donald Trump and the GOP. Hillary Clinton is on track to be the Democratic nominee. Bernie Sanders remains in the race as is his right. However, we see Sanders acting as an obstruction to Hillary being able to focus on Trump. We do not see Hillary or Obama as the threat.
We can agree that Kissinger is a waste of human flesh, but he did seem to provide some aid in dealing with China and Israel. Would most of us give Kissinger an award, the answer is no. Kissinger is 92 years old. My religious tradition tells me that he faces an eternity much worse than I could conceive for him.Do I think that Obama is evil for letting the award go through? No. Given the developments in the GOP, that party remains the biggest threat. When most of us compare the GOP threat to an award for the walking dead, we are not concerned about the award.
Bernie outspent Hillary and still could not win a majority of voters or delegates. Right now, all he is doing is helping Donald Trump.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 3:50pm
If Hillary is involved in a close race with Trump, we will look back at the glee Bernie Sanders has in making the attacks against Hillary, handing talking points to Donald Trump.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/11/bernie-sanders-goes-off...
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/11/2016 - 10:23pm
I don't think it is fair to blame Kissinger for the slaughter in Bangladesh. I've read some of the State department records relating to the period. Nixon cut off military aid to Pakistan, and, both publicly and behind the scenes, advocated for a cease-fire. Nixon eventually ordered clandestine arms shipments to Pakistan, but they didn't arrive until after the war was over. I'd said that Bangladesh in 1971 was one of the few occasions when Dick and his boys acted fairly honorably.
by Aaron Carine (not verified) on Sat, 05/14/2016 - 12:59pm