MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Public broadcaster airs clip of PM telling Likud activists US exit came after he stood up 'against the whole world' by opposing accord
Comments
I would consider this news but apparently the NYT and Wapo do not. A google search a couple pages deep turned up zero. What country really has a "special relationship" with rhe U.S?
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 12:34pm
Seems to me the article is skeptical that Netanyahu's claim is correct
And this article is along the lines of "oh look here's Bibi bullshitting to Likud about his magical influence again."
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 1:33pm
And my searches show there was a lot of coverage in the U.S. media at the time Netanyahu made the speech that he claims--in the newly uncovered video--convinced Trump. Like this op-ed in the NYTimes:
Benjamin Netanyahu’s Nuclear Nothingburger
By Steven Simon
Mr. Simon is a co-author of “Our Separate Ways: The Struggle for the Future of the U.S.-Israel Alliance.”
May 1, 2018
So I guess I don't really agree with the argument that it's important for the U.S. media to cover current interior political bullshitting by Netanyahu about past supposed accomplishments. Especially as the media is worried about whether they are feeding our own troll by repeating his daily lies about his accomplishments.
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 2:10pm
Yeah, politicians make claims about the things they do all the time and it's often bull shit. The republicans were playing politics with the Iran deal ever since it was signed. Trump signed onto that on the campaign trail. There's a lot of pundits that make good arguments that Trump's hatred of Obama is the motivation for many of his actions. I think even if Netanyahu was for the Iran deal Trump would be against it. Though Netanyahu's support for ending the deal might be a minor influence I doubt that it was a major factor.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 3:21pm
And a by the way, it appears that the NYT Editorial Board directly addressed that which seems to concern you, on May 1:
OPINION
Netanyahu’s Flimflam on Iran
His supposedly incriminating evidence is nothing new. But his intended audience in Washington will probably look past that.
By The Editorial Board
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 5:52pm
Seems to me the article is skeptical that Netanyahu's claim is correct
The article appears to me to be reporting something factual, something that actually happened, something which is recorded on tape, something important that a leader of an important country did in fact say. I do not see the editorial slant that you do. I do not see any claim or implication that Netanyahu’s assertion is either true or false. As I have already indicated, I believe that Netanyahu’s bragging that he is ultimately responsible for the U.S. taking an action which most U.S. political leaders, as well as the majority of U.S. citizens, plus most of our European allies, believe to have been a grievous mistake, is news. Or at least should be. It reports what he actually said and adds just a bit of context. It does not suggest that he has or believes he has magical powers. That would be Trump.
Further, in an atmosphere where the news has since the election been ranting 24/7 about another country affecting our elections, maybe to the point of choosing our President, the fact that a leader of a different significant country claims to have directed an important foreign policy decision which only the winner of that election, Trump, would have taken, is worth reporting. Israel, whose population and leadership includes a great many people of Russian decent and heritage, are getting along just fine.
Israel is too important a consideration in U.S foreign policy and too important to U.S. internal politics for the two most influential newspapers in this country to fail to report that the leader of Israel claims he had the power, and that he did in fact exercise that power, to break an extremely important agreement between the U.S. and Iran. That is news that should be reported. That is true I believe even if you believe, and even if it is true, that Netanyahu is just blowing smoke to hype his own standing. Not reporting it is most assuredly an editorial decision and one I disagree with. My opinion is influenced by the belief that Israel and its American supporters who insist on American support for anything Israel does, those whose Jewish heritage make them ardent supporters of virtually anything Israel does, actually do have a lot of influence in U.S. politics and the resultant choices made by our government.
And my searches show there was a lot of coverage in the U.S. media at the time Netanyahu made the speech that he claims--in the newly uncovered video--convinced Trump.
Every one of your links are almost three months old. They were all written before the decision to void the agreement was announced. Coverage of a speech given almost three months ago by Netanyahu does not, IMO, justify ignoring something significant he said on the subject a couple weeks ago but just now revealed .
And this article is along the lines of "oh look here's Bibi bullshitting to Likud about his magical influence again."
I do not see that editorial opinion expressed in the article. But even if it is a fact that Netanyahu was blowing smoke when he made the claim, [maybe it was Sheldon Adelson who actually exercised the power] that smoke is significant and newsworthy. One way to spin the article differently than you do and beyond what it actually says, and to do so more accurately IMO, is to say that Netanyahu is on record claiming to actually have the power that Mearsheimer and Walt claimed for the Israeli lobby. Their claim made the news and inspired a lot of passionate debate because it is an important subject for those who think that the U.S government should put U.S. interests first.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 07/20/2018 - 8:48pm
For those who don't think the western MSM is all in on a plot against Putin and Netanyahu is the real king of the world, I just ran across this piece reporting the latest between Bibi and Pootie:
Netanyahu Tells Putin That Israel Still Targeting Iran Assets In Syria
@RFE/RF, July 20
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/21/2018 - 4:11am
I have been trying to parse the first sentence of this comment by you and the only way it makes sense to me is if you had left out the word "don't". Correct or explain if you choose.
I have been reading and several times re-reading in an attempt to understand, this rather long essay by Corey Robin along with the comments that follow. While doing so I was several times reminded by points in the article of our back and forth in this short comment thread and why I took the position I did. The essay begins with a reference to a piece from an article in The Guardian which I think has a major shortcoming or two but I recommend the article by Robin whether The Guardian article is read or not and whether or not it is agreed with in part or full. Robin uses it only to begin exposition of his own thoughts which, along with the comments that follow, are a smorgasbord for thought relating to politics of today.
edited to remove one word in the last sentence.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 07/22/2018 - 11:19am
You started this thread after posting your link with this comment:
and you're suggesting I'm the one being snarky or facetious by being reactive to that.
You know we disagree on interpretation of the original article, and I have also pointed out above where the author of the article does not appear to have the same interpretation you do.
When I ran across the article--truly just ran across it--of the recent interaction between Putin and Netanyahu, I simply thought it was the right thing to do to post it on this thread.
Let other readers can decide by reading the links. You can discuss it with them, I'm not interested in discussing your interpretation, I;m pretty sure it won't get me anywhere new except repeating disagreements we've had for years.
(BTW, another just ran across, this one may be more up your alley: The Interpreter: Israel Picks Identity Over Democracy. More Nations May Follow.@ NYTimes.com, by Max Fisher, July 22.)
Bye.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/22/2018 - 9:36pm
You say after quoting my initial comment, "... and you're suggesting I'm the one being snarky or facetious by being reactive to that." How could I have been suggesting that you are "the one" being snarky? I of course read that as you accusing me of being snarky and/or facetious and you being offended by it or at least throwing out an insupportable put down. If we agree that "snark" is mocking irreverence then I agree that my reference to Israel as having a special relationship to the U.S. is in fact snark but I would go on to say that it is a pretty mild example of snark with mountains of evidence to back up its intent which is to point out the obvious fact that Israel has a "special relationship" with the United States. The snark in my comment was referencing a term used often to describe our relationship with England. I could not possibly have been suggesting that "you" were being snarky because I did not mention you at all and you had not yet registered a reply to what I had posted and commented on. So, I can only conclude that it is my less than reverent mention of Israel in context of American foreign relations that is snark that is offensive to you, that it pisses you off, and you object to me expressing it here at dag.
Maybe/probably, my sin by your lights was compounded by my suggesting that the NYT and WAPO made a politically motivated editorial decision to not mention, that is to not inform the American public of the news, that the Leader of Israel claims to have, not just with his public statements but also during his several private meetings, exercised his unique power to convince Trump to make a decision that went against the advice of his top 'American' advisers, most of his Cabinet, many elected Republicans, almost every elected Democrat, all of our European allies and friends, and a strong majority of the American people, plus every other clear thinking, well informed, non-politically-twisted person on planet earth . That sort of perverse influence by any other foreign leader on any other subject is certainly and correctly considered to be news and that statement is certainly not just my opinion.
Sorry but tough luck if either of my suppositions is the case. Of course, as always, I invite you to explain to me or correct me if I am wrong, or if I have mistakenly misrepresented your position. That could turn into something like having a conversation about politics and the news of the day.
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 07/23/2018 - 1:48pm
Of course, as always, I invite you to explain to me or correct me if I am wrong, or if I have mistakenly misrepresented your position. That could turn into something like having a conversation about politics and the news of the day.
Sorry but after years of trying, I've given up on the possibility that it's easy to do that with you. You belabor the same points over and over as if nothing ever changes, some supposedly eternal truths about the U.S. and its warmongering. I'm a natural news junkie, I tend to think things change all the time, change is what interests me. I have chosen not to argue basically about the Vietnam war in the time I have left on earth. Been there, done that moving on to other things. I have nothing against others who want to do that, I just don't want to play.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/23/2018 - 1:59pm