MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
"'The Zionist regime is a wound that has sat on the body of the Muslim world for years and needs to be removed," Rouhani said at a demonstration in Tehran marking Al-Quds (Jerusalem) Day, an annual show of support for the Palestinian cause. The speech also came just two days before Rouhani, described by pundits as a "moderate," was set to be sworn in, replacing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as Iranian president."
. . .
"Outgoing Iranian President Ahmadinejad also addressed Al-Quds day crowds on Friday, warning that an impending regional "storm" that would uproot Israel, AFP reported:
"I will inform you with God as my witness, a devastating storm is on the way that will uproot the basis of Zionism," AFP quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
Ahmadinejad added that Israel "has no place in the region."
Comments
The Times seems to blame the Israelis for failing to understand that the moderate Rohani did not use the word "wound" but in fact said "sore", which of course is more moderate or something. Also, Rouhani didn't refer to Israel as a "cancerous tumour" either, so in case I'm not the only one who can understand that as perhaps being a tad threatening, you and I should be comforted that we're just into sores of some unknown degree--but they are not wounds or cancerous tumours.
Given my tongue in cheek, here's the article in full:
by Bruce Levine on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 12:17pm
Thanks for posting the N.Y. Times article in full. The Jerusalem Post article you link to was also updated to reflect that Rouhani was misquoted. My point is: your headline and original post are wrong.
by acanuck on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 2:51pm
There is no need to thank me. Are you inviting me to remove the headline because you believe it is wrong?
Let me elaborate, with respect, because of the fact that I have had a couple of decent colloquies with you over the years. Based on what I've read, here's my understanding which leads me to question your certainty, your "point", that what I have headlined is wrong:
1. As you know, the article I linked to was based on the reports by ISNA, the Iranian Student News Agency, about remarks that Rouhani made at a demonstration. My understanding was that Rouhani was at a demonstration and made remarks to a demonstration. Seems like a reasonable understanding.
2. The subsequent clarification is based upon an excerpt of Rouhani of addressing journalists at a demonstration, which to me is different than addressing a demonstration. So is it your understanding that ISNA botched up Rouhani's remarks made to journalists?
3. ISNA is an arm of Iranian government, no? We might disagree about whether ISNA would report something like that without sanction. I am fairly certain this was no cub reporter error. I don't believe that would happen.
4. I will change the headline, but thank you for making my point, which is that headlines matter.
5. I trust that we all should be subject to the same standard going forward.
by Bruce Levine on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 3:29pm
JPost, the Times, the official Iranian news service and the student service all now report Rouhani didn't call for Israel's destruction or removal from the region.
In fact, I finally saw the video, and Rouhani talks about a sore or wound on the Muslim world "as a result of the occupation of Palestine and Jerusalem." He doesn't mention Israel per se:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/10218221/Irans...
This on a day when plenty of politicians, like Ahmadinejad, were no doubt in full anti-Zionist flight. Both the student news service and the Netanyahu government have their (diametrically opposed) reasons for wanting to distort his words. To me, it's quite remarkable not only that Rouhani distanced himself from the rhetoric we're used to, but moved so quickly to set the record straight.
by acanuck on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 4:11pm
I'm aware of what the JPost, the Times and the Iranian news service said, I think. I'm not sure that anything that has been written differs from my understanding above, but in any event I changed the headline, and hopefully to conform with community standards of accuracy that I had not previously been familiar with.
In any event, if Rouhani is moderate (which I guess means Iran's former government wasn't?), then that's a good thing. It would be an even better thing if the Ayatollah Khameni would permit Rouhani to proceed accordingly.
P.S. Just to clarify, it seems that the current understanding among the establishment press is that Rouhani did say wound, not sore, but that he didn't say anything, including a wound or a sore, had to be cleansed. Too big for a headline, but hopefully ample evidence of moderation.
by Bruce Levine on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 6:43pm
Uskowi on Iran, today, my bold:
by artappraiser on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 3:42pm
Sorry AA for not answering you right away. Of course I do believe that, all things equal, any signs or hints of moderation are a good thing. Thanks for bringing up a truism that is important to consider in this crazy world.
by Bruce Levine on Sat, 08/03/2013 - 12:11pm
Always nice to get a reply from you, though definitely not required.
My main point was what Iran the state thinks at this point in time is of great interest because it is something that maybe something can be done about. But if the issue is the hatred of Israel by many citizens in the Mideast (and leaders pandering to that from time to time for political benefit) and anti-Semitism in the Mideast, this is a quite different problem, requiring different solutions, and not having the same potential of resolution. Mixing the two is going to get you in the same old same old arguments going nowhere.
I like to add that personally, I don't get all the conniptions over the title here. In news posts, mho, just best to use the headline the source uses. If the source changes their headline later, it could be noted in comments. If you're adding your own title, then you're doing commentary on the article, getting closer to a blog post. Then you'd be fair game for criticism yourself, like in a blog post. But if people posting news don't do that, then I can't presume they agree with the headline, just that they found it interesting. And comments then are then comments directed toward the author of the article, or analysis or opinion about it, and shouldn't be taken personally by the person posting the news article.
by artappraiser on Sat, 08/03/2013 - 9:28pm
I agree with your comment on the headline. I almost always use the headline the article comes with. As you said it doesn't mean I agree with it or that I even agree with the article. Posting something in the news section only means that I found it interesting. Its unlikely I would have changed headline after there was some commentary on it as that discussion makes less sense if the headline discussed is changed.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 08/03/2013 - 11:08pm
Thanks AA. On the headline thing, I guess I totally hear what you and OK are saying, and I guess I really haven't thought it through completely--except to the extent that it is the kind of thing that should perhaps have some kind of uniform (unwritten but generally understood) protocol or whatever--without getting too crazy--or whatever. Whatever. Cheers.
by Bruce Levine on Sun, 08/04/2013 - 10:37am
To be clear, I'm not criticizing your choice to change the headline of your post. I don't know what the "right" thing to do is. I'm just weighing in on the issue with what I would likely have done, or not have done. At most I would have added a PS stating that the headline of the original article has been changed to ..... And maybe some commentary on that change..
by ocean-kat on Sun, 08/04/2013 - 2:46pm
Thanks OK, I didn't take it as criticism, and I appreciate your input--as always. Best.
by Bruce Levine on Sun, 08/04/2013 - 10:56pm
I have changed the headline a third time to this little news piece so that it is as accurate as I can make it.
Forgive my tribalism, but I will quote now in full from an Iranian Jew, Meir Javedanfar, who is now a citizen of the State of Israel, on what was actually said (we think) by Rouhani:
I will stand by this interpretation, which by the way, differs from the reference to the "sore" that others were apparently certain was the correct interpretation yesterday--based on mainstream media reports.
This writer believes he understands the Iranian domestic political situation as well as anyone here, or at least well enough to have an intelligent discussion about Iran, domestically or otherwise. And, respectfully, I have focused perhaps more than others on the remaining Jews from the ancient Persian Jewish community left in Iran. That frames my perspective and I make no apologies for that. As a result, for example, I am taken back by those who would parrot (perhaps unintentionally) ugly Iranian hasbara (as that term is so negatively used on the internet) to contend that things are secure for the remaining smatterings of an ancient Persian Jewish population. This is not to assert any intention on my fellow bloggers to be inaccurate. That's my gut, but also informed belief, and anyone who wants to assert otherwise should move away from resting on the bizarre eerie-like (to this Jews' ears anyway) recitation of statistics pertaining to the number of kosher butchers and Jewish schools there are left in Tehran-- -- a city with a population of approximately 100,000 Jewish people into the 1940s or 50s (I believe). But, seriously, if it's an important issue for anyone I would be willing to discuss it.
Ultimately, what I believe would be worthwhile to discuss in a serious way just what it that makes us believe that Rouhani will be: (a) more moderate than his predecessor (and what does that mean?); and (b) how it matters in any event in an Iran that is controlled by the Ayotollah Khameni.
I deleted the other stuff. I honestly have some unreconciled beefs, but I'm not going to do it here. Happy weekend.
by Bruce Levine on Sat, 08/03/2013 - 12:20pm
The entire saga of what happened with the translation was explained with extensive detail at The Lede on Aug. 2.
by artappraiser on Mon, 08/05/2013 - 7:28pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/18/2013 - 1:44am
by artappraiser on Sat, 08/24/2013 - 10:08pm
by artappraiser on Tue, 08/27/2013 - 3:41am