MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Democrats' post-election 'family meeting' descends into chaos
By artappraiser on Thu, 11/05/2020 - 10:41pm |By Scott Wong & Mike Lillis @ TheHill.com, Nov. 5, current headline story
Moderate House Democrats lashed out at their liberal colleagues Thursday, using a marathon caucus-wide conference call to bash progressives for advancing an agenda that, the centrists said, cost the party a number of seats in Tuesday’s elections.
An impassioned Rep. Abigail Spanberger, who squeaked to victory in central Virginia, took liberals to task for promoting the policy of redirecting funds away from police departments, an idea that took off following the death of George Floyd in May — and that Republicans used on the campaign trail to hammer Democrats with charges of nurturing crime.
Spanberger called the Democrats’ campaign strategy “a failure.” “I do disagree, Abigail, that it was a failure,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) interjected. “We won the House.”
Rep. Marc Veasey (D-Texas) delivered a similar condemnation, lamenting that the far left’s approach to several issues — including moving funds away from the police and banning fracking — had given ammunition to GOP attack ads. Veasey said he had watched GOP “commercial after commercial” using video footage of Democrats uttering the words, “defund the police,” to great effect.
Liberals immediately pushed back on the moderates’ narrative.[....]
URL:
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/524690-democrats-post-election-family-meeting-descends-into-chaos
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AOC dissing Claire McAskill advice on Twitter
more on topic
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/05/2020 - 10:51pm
Jim Clyburn: we don't want your Defund Police and Medicare-4-all shtick right now anywhere near Georgia, please shut the fuck up with that until after the runoff
Dem leaders warn liberal rhetoric could blow Georgia races
If “we are going to run on Medicare for All, defund the police, socialized medicine, we're not going to win," says Jim Clyburn.
By Heather Cagle & Sarah Ferris @ Politico.com, Nov. 5
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/05/2020 - 11:09pm
not enough listened to the advice to go home and stay home in October
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/05/2020 - 11:16pm
WaPo:
ABC News:
other
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/05/2020 - 11:48pm
You all know how I feel about the defund the police bs but the democrats got the candidate they wanted and barely won. Now they want to blame it all on a small group of idiots on the left. Where were all the Lincoln republicans that were going to flock to Biden because he was so moderate? All the left's fault? Biden got less of the black vote than Hillary when we were being told he was the candidate the blacks wanted. He got less of the latino vote. All the left's fault? The left sucked it up and voted for Biden. AOC and Sanders and all the rest kept their mouth shut and stumped for the guy. And it's all the left's fault that he did so poorly?
We need a better explanation for what's been happening. How did we go from Obama as president with a large majority in the house and 60 democrats in the senate to this? I admit I don't know why people vote the way they do but it's all the left's fault just doesn't seem like a good explanation to me.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 12:12am
I don't take this argument to be about Biden at all, they seem to be leaving his performance out of it. They were hoping for a blue wave in Congress and instead they lost seats. And that is what this blame game argument is about.
I suspect a lot of voters split their tickets based exactly thinking like this:hate Trump, vote for Biden, but hate lefty defund police and socialized medicine, so, vote GOP for state, local and Congress. (There is actually a Krugman tweet thread that went semi-viral, mentions a lot of the contradictions that indicate that. It really does seem that the things they are mentioning in this House argument are the sticky wickets-clearly Defund Police and single payer are third rail, but like in Florida they changed the minimum wage, people showed a lot of interest in enviromental initiatives marijuana, etc. It's really those two things that made people vote against Dems, precisely because they prioritize those two things: security and health. They'll vote for the other guy that's against everything else they believe if they've been convinced that they are risking signing those away by voting for him/her.
And back to Biden--regular voters know they the president doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with either of these things. He said the right things about it that was enough. It's what gang was in Congress that they fear on these issues. In many cases there were probably plenty of people that
Overall, this is why I raised the democracy issue on another thread with you. It's proven again that's it's a delusion that a majority wants progressive change. You said you lost hope. But how could you ever have hope that progressives would win national office? You're too smart for that, that confuses me. Like one of the other articles point out: only 25% are progressive at most. Were you hoping a lot of people wouldnt vote and a progressive would win that way? How was your miracle going to happen?
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 12:49am
P.S. what that guy questioned AOC about above is true. Her district is very lefty combined with poor Hispanics that voted for the nice energetic girl when previously they had just always ticked the box for the old white guy NY Dem hack. She couldn't win in a lot of other NY districts, she's not that liked all over. (Remember again: this "liberal" city elected two non-Dem mayors basicially cause: low crime rate and security is a treasured thing, second is making the trains run on time, metaphorically..and need I even say that neighborhoods like Wall Street or Upper East Side would get all excited about a rep. continually babbling about socialist redistribution?.Then there's Israel...)
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 12:59am
Biden got the Lincoln Republicans and many of the disaffected Independents. Besides heavily winning the popular vote (wait til California comes in in 2 weeks), he apparently has taken Michigan back and eked out wins in critical states Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania, maybe even North Carolina where they've been gerrymandering and court casing the system to death for decades. Biden wasn't chosen to fix our lopsided disadvantage - he was just chosen to win his race, and he seems to have done that, whatever backseat driving we want to do. "Just shut up, man" seems to be the mantra we needed to cut through all the shit, nothing else. Where we go from here is a tougher call, bit savor the moment. Not quite leaving Dachau, but realizing your train almost went there... seriously.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 2:04am
The electorate has changed
Citizens are now willing to vote for autocrats.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/18/united-states-is-backsliding-into-autocracy-under-trump-scholars-warn/
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 12:50am
AMEN, ONE MORE COLLEGE TRY at preventing the idiotic counterproductive self-inflicted wounds:
get off the fucking streets and that includes you guys in downtown Manhattan
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 3:33am
an example of how the ramifications are everywhere in the covid economic pickle we're in:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 7:22pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 7:38pm
It's true that when for example AOC won in a massively democratic district it's not an interesting data point and it doesn't mean that progressives are on the rise. But one thing people are noting is that except for president almost nothing changed from the federal level to the local level. No matter what the make up of the districts democrats didn't flip seats and at least in the house they lost seats. And It's highly likely most of those democrats were moderates. It seems to me the progressive moment, the moderate movement, the democrats no matter how moderate or progressive didn't do all the well in 2020
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 7:52pm
some more info. on that just posted below
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 7:54pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 7:53pm
OMG, AOC bound and determined to be branded a socialist bitch? Thinking she's gonna redistribute some Lincoln Project donor income:
Way to go AOC, whole hog divisive purist, no coalitions for you, you get to pick who the good people who deserve money are? Frankly, I find this pretty scary. I don't envy Pelosi.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 10:04pm
I don't know the metrics, but
1) i think Lincoln Project convinced quite a few Republican Trumpers it was ok to vote Biden
2) LP was inspiring for us more left that someone was doing something to fight Trump when D ms seemed quiet or ineffective
3) $67mill isn't very much money for a media outfit that did as many successful ads as they did - go ask a traditional media group like Olgiivy what they would charge - $2m per ad? $3m?
I'm also reminded that many people gave to the peaceful BLM street protests effort, not the BLM Marxist organization not the BLM advocates busting who storefronts and harassing diners & property owners. Distribute that money right back where it belongs?
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 12:16am
the main thing they did was take on the attack ad and oppo research responsibilities (which they have lots of past experience at!) in order that the Dem candidate could go positive (which would, not coincidentally, help break the tribal partisan defense thing, i.e., our candidate's an ass but he's our ass,) allowing GOP to vote for Biden. The plan is all in Radio Free Tom's Reality Check. They would play the troll games so Dems didn't have to. I think this is also why most of Biden's ads seemed sappy to many of us news junkie types, they were targeted at the majority, as most voters say they don't like it. Biden didn't have to do it because they were doing it. I am absolutely sure the Biden campaign depended upon and agreed with them tending to the negative campaign duties, I just don't think they are allowed to admit that in public.
And as Joe ended up as candidate, it was all the more appropriate, since he'd have a tough time trolling Trump.
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 12:57am
Yeah, i mentioned that to my wife - that if Biden guys had done it, the media would criticize, Republicans would've hit back harder, etc. But having this renegade group do it - no place to hide, no place to criticize.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 1:21am
And pushing back on the solo hero narrative ( tho she corrects to say she's *NOT* negating Stacy's effort)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 12:18am
From Abrams Twitter account
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 4:30pm
dupe comment on purpose as it relates to both threads:
I note that David Brockman is Associate Professor of Political Science @UCBerkeley
.his feed is here https://twitter.com/dbroockman
He retweeted this earlier today, concerning another thread:
and he retweeted this on Nov. 4
P.S. from other tweets it is very clear that he is anti-Trump
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 10:39pm
this is a rather simplistic version of the above, I just post it as an example of a lot of stuff I am seeing, this is definitely a meme people like Yglesias are noting and starting to talk about:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/06/2020 - 11:57pm
Sore losers Jacobin Magazine ready to rumble. Still, I guess we should thank them for knowing it was the right thing to do to wait until the election was over:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 2:20pm
Sore losers? The moderate and conservative democrats asked them to suck it up, hold their nose, and vote against Trump. Which they did and that 25% of the party did more to elect Biden than other smaller minority groups. I didn't know that bargain was to not just suck it up and vote for Biden but to also STFU for the next four years. Isn't it enough that they voted for someone they hate to rid the country of someone they hated more? I couldn't do it.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 2:59pm
I did notice you'd held up the call for your state. Gathering signatures for the new Mexican state of Nueva Arizona no doubt. My biggest concern is how Little Feat's gonna get from Tucumcari. But still, I'm Willin'.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 3:18pm
It's not at all beyond my own thinking that the far left and far right might create coalitions to fight Biden admin. initiatives.
The radicals are basically already doing it in like the Boogaloo movement.
Libertarians are certainly open to new coalitions to fight big moderating gummint anytime anywhere. I.E. BLM: pro-2nd amendment purists or not?
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 3:26pm
"Biden admin. initiatives."
There aren't going to be any Biden admin. initiatives. Biden will weigh in as necessary against the house democrats to help the senate republicans make the smallest possible compromise to get "bipartisan" legislation.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 3:50pm
disagree, already working on this one
results of the Senate runoff in GA will affect tactics some but I am suspecting both he and Harris will work like this, contra the way Obama did things: work the Congress espec. the Senate BEFORE making a big deal publicly of any initiative. That is more the way Bill Clinton admin did things too. Rather than rely on bottom up p.r. people power, make back room deals FIRST, then go public. This avoids making any one thing a big fucking deluded us. vs. them public partisan fight pumped by nefarious interests on big media and social media when a majority of people actually would agree on doing it. Elected congresscritters assured they're not gonna get blasted by constituents because Rush Limbaugh told them to, it's something they already told the pollster they agree with. I.E., some gun regulation, protection of pre-exisiting conditions in health insurance....
(edit to fix url)
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 7:02pm
I think you miss the point. While we've become alarmed about Paula White serpent pregnancies, if you've seen Dusk to Dawn you'll know there's a whole different realm of satanic ceremony south of the border - and I imagine this is part of OceanKat's plan - to bring liberal thought & advocacy to a new level of effectiveness through a pact with the devil. This was actually documented in a recent movie which I forget the title of, but the evidence can be found in Netflix' or HBO's back catalog.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 4:30pm
Nah, I'm just listening to songs about me that encourage me to do the right thing.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 11/07/2020 - 5:10pm
Conor Lamb's brother calls out AOC for spinning bullshit about their campaign:
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 1:18am
GA Senate candidate Rev. Warnock, Oct. 19:
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 1:54am
Yglesias cold-eye thread on topic to which there are interesting replies
I especially liked this what this guy pointed out:
AOC and others are pushing the pie-in-the-sky thing, that you can change reality and people if you just put enough elbow grease into getting an army on the streets knocking on doors and spending hours haranging people in person. As if in this day and age, people aren't in the habit of slamming the door on anyone coming to their door more than ever, even before Covid, so they can get back to virtual life.
Yeah sure, in NYC, doors are very close to each other, and little old lady immigrants will be glad to talk to the nice pretty girl who speaks Spanish. I suspect doesn't work as well in Boise.
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 4:11pm
forgot to put a major Yglesias follow-up tweet, which is on the "deep canvassing" that AOC and others are pushing as the remedy to turn the Dem party progressive and win at the same time:
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 6:00pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 7:24pm
"Had an actual human Republican ran instead of trump, would Biden have won?"
I've wondered a similar thing last election. If there wasn't a deep hatred of Hillary among a significant number of people would Trump had won?
by ocean-kat on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 8:30pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 7:39pm
Here is a reporter who covered Florida Dem ground game in 2018, describes an absolute chaotic mess, one Dem even said straight out to him that "Republicans are a lot more organised than we are". He says many of the things AOC is complaining about seem spot on to him. Click on this first tweet to get his entire thread:
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 10:45pm
Yeah, i read her interview - i kept wondering where was our ground game, where was our social media attack, why is Lincoln Project and 2 other video outlets the only ones pushing back against GOP? I'm sure it was worse at the local level. (AOC is being nice to Obama - he largely pulled the rug out from under anything that didn't focus on his own re-election, took over & incorporated all the organizing groups on the left after 1st election, rather than "built his own outreach outside the party", basically screwed the party effort for anyone who came after.)
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 11/08/2020 - 11:32pm