cmaukonen's picture

    Fed up with the Ds and Rs ????

    There is another option and Ted Rall's latest book, The Anti-American Manifesto explains it quite seriously and succinctly. Overthrow the present government and establish something else. Something that is fair and just and workable. This is not some 1960s hippy Abbie Hoffman type book. It contains no plans for Molotov Cocktails or pipe bombs or how to rip off bits of the system.  It is an in depth examination of the  reasons for taking down the current oligarchy and replacing it with a real government.

    As I said it is a very serious examination how why this needs to be done, why it needs to be done soon and the best general approach to achieving it. Ted pulls not punches and does not gloss anything over.  It is an honest appraisal of the current state of this country and where it is headed.

    He starts off with an examination of what is current happening economically and politically.
    "Nothing lasts for ever, empires least of all. And this one, which only began to expand in earnest circa the year 1900, does not feel like it has the staying power of ancient Rome. Not at all.
    But we are not here to talk about the vague possibility of collapse at some point in the future. We are here--int this book and this historical moment--because the collapse feels as though is is currently in progress."


    Ted then goes on the explain and gives examples of why he feels this is the case. He likes to show the parallels between the the collapse of the Soviet Union and the impending collapse of the Unite States.

    "In 2008, like the people of the Soviet Union in the mid-1980s, we put our hopes into a young new leader. He is the kind of fresh-faced reformer who just might have been able to do some good had he been put into power decades ago. "Black Man Given NAtions Worst Job", read the headline in the saterical weekly newspaper the Onion after Barak Obama won. He has failed. It is by design that internal reformers like Mikail Gorbachev and Obama inevitably come to late to actually accomplish anything. Even if Obama were inclined to push for the sweeping reforms that might save American late-stage capitalism from itself, as did Franklin D. Roosevelt--and there is no evidence that the thought has crossed Obama's mind--his fellow powerbrokers, fixated on quarterly profit statements and personal position, would never allow it."


    He then begins to show just what exactly is at stake.  Expressing is genuine concern for what may occur if not action is taken. That if the left simply sits and waits.  That the extreme right wing, Christian fundamentalists, anti-civil liberties would take control and fill the vacuum left after the collapse. Preparing to seize power. And they are armed and ready and we are not.

    Now I have to say something about Ted Rall. I have read his column off and on for the last 10 years or so. He is not some conspiracy kook by a long shot. In fact he comes off quite often as a very cynical and sarcastic writer but also very much into the reality check.  So if ted is concerned then there must be something to be concerned about.

    Next he goes into the reasons why this revolution needs to start soon and his reasons behind it. Listing all the circustances and the parallels between or current situation that of the USSR before it's fall.  Going then into the consequences of a collapse what thr most likely scenario would be.

    The enemy is inertia. There a a zillion reasons not to do anything; indeed, we Americans haven't done anything--hell, we haven't thought about doing anything--for generations. So at risk of repeating myself, I must emphasize that our current crisis--economic and political collapse, a surging right poised to take over, with possible environmental apocalypse just around the corner--in not going to resolve itself in a way that we like is we sin on our asses. The current U.S. government must be prophylactically removed.


    Pretty heady stuff.  I must state that Ted does not in anyway suggest an armed uprising. On the contrary he states in a number places how such a situation would be domed to failure. And I must add that the consequences for such an uprising would be fairly sever. What he does advocate though is total opposition the the current regime and uses the French Resistance of WWII as an example through out the book.  Yes you heard right. The use of violent tactics or to use the current euphemism Direct Action. He explains why he feels this is necessary [And I concur]

    "....Without violence, the powerful will never stop exploiting the weak.
    Only the possibility that the people will attack and possibly kill their rulers and elite oppressors can keep the later in check. Fear curbs the excesses of power.  But politicians and businessmen will not perceive such a threat as genuine unless the people have actually attacked and sometimes killed them in recent memory."


    And he gives very good examples of this with the labor struggles of the early 1900s and  European revolts of the late 19th and the twentieth century.  He goes into  fairly good detail on all wars of aggression that the U.S. as been in and/or started since the late 18th century. The downward economic cycle, social injustices and ineffective response to disasters and planning for same. He then explains why now is the time and that the 1960s and early 1970s it was just not going to happen. And that if something is not done before the collapse, we would end up like Russia...or worse. With gangster capitalism, few (if any) public services and entire metropolitan areas resembling ghettos do to neglect.

    The book also gose into why working within the system and third parties in our two party political monopoly simply will not work. That the laws governing elections and their outcome are specifically designed to keep them from working.  That taking what ever direct action to oppose and help bing down the current government is preferable to leaving it to collapse of it own accord.  And we all know that a controlled demolition is always much safer.

    The book is very well researched and is serious and he makes clear that this will be no party or walk in the park. That the possible consequences  of doing nothing or relying on an ever more dysfunctional and bankrupt government are much, much worse.

    Get the book and read it. With an open mind. And think.

    Then do something.

     

    Comments

    I forgot to mention that Ted does not suggest that everybody needs to partake in violent actions. But ot do what you can to sabotage and help bring down the current system. If you work in a bank and someone is underwater with their mortgage, loose the paperwork. If you drive a cab and and some elite type gets in, take the long way around so he is late to where ever he is going. Monkeywrenching is still very good.

    However I need to add that be prepaired for some violent times. If you think you will be able to go and live in some commune/comunity untouched by it all. Think again. Such communities will be prime targets especially of the extreem right.


    cm...

    I believe that that anyone observing what has been occurring over the past three decades and (seriously) analyzed potential fixes has, at times, come to the same final solution that Rall did.  When one plays chess, it's necessary to analyze "all options."  As time has gone by, many of the methods utilized by various movements to cause change or right wrongs have been negated.  For example: Our democratic process has been corporatized.  Our legal system has become a tentacle of the same plutocracy.  I'll probably have an even harder time passing through airport security after posting this, but I see few other alternatives than Rall's.


    I would possibly choose to read it, but do something? Not if it involves violence. And that seems to be where you're headed. And I heartily disagree, if that's the case. Civil disobedience, sure. Marching peaceably, sure. Sabotage, or worse? I'm outa here. I appreciate your bringing this to our attention but, no. I don't like where the thought could lead us.

    Lis...there is a very real possibility it will come to that whether you want it too or not. The question is, which outcome would you prefer. One that you choose or one that has been chosen for you ? One where the outcome is more amiable or one where it is even more draconian and oppressive and ugly. By taking action now, you have a much better chance of direction the outcome in your favor and if you take no action what so ever.


    That is a nut shell is the whole point of the book.


    Sounds very, um....like the folks who stockpile ammo and practice firing off their AK47's in the woods. 

    Again, I'm for non-violent means of breaking down bad systems.  Even if it takes decades.

     


    "Overthrow the present government and establish something else. Something that is fair and just and workable."


    Let me just play along for a second, though.  "Overthrow the present government".  Explain how, C.  Tell me how that could be done.  Tell me how you foresee us all establishing "something else" after that is done.  And explain to me how it's all fair and just and workable, that overthrowing, and how anything that would come afterwards would be fair and just and workable.

     


    I cannot tell you because I do not know. But then very few people involved in such things know ahead of time exactly how it will work out. It is as they say, a leap of faith. You know the current situation is unacceptable and that it only get more unacceptable if left to it's own devices.


    So, without knowing the outcome, without knowing what the plan is, but only knowing that people are fed up, we're just supposed to wing it and cause an uprising that could become violent?

    Oy.

     


    This is where it gets scary, Lis. Too many willing to talk overthrow or undermine without knowing where that will lead. Or WHO will lead. Everyone has their fantasies about how to make it better, but when the talk turns to violence it's time to stop, take a breath, and think about what that really means. I don't always trust the government, but to say I hate it? I couldn't even say that when Bush/Cheney were in the catbird seats. I may have hated them, but they weren't the entire government.

    You might be interested in this Grit TV interview with Chris Hedges on 'The Death of the Liberal Class'.  I really appreciated his focus and take on history.

    http://www.grittv.org/2010/11/13/chris-hedges-the-death-of-the-liberal-class/

     


    For the moment I would just say that the thing springing to mind is Andrew Schmookler's The Parable of the Tribes.  If four villages want to live in peace and harmony, and the fifth village chooses to use violence to take what they want and enslave the other four villages, the other four villages have three choices: 1) run away 2) surrender or 3) drop the harmony vision, pick up weapons, and go to war with the fifth village.  Since in the case of American politics, option 1 is not an option, we are left with the other two. 

    Of course, things are quite that simplistic.  But there is some truth to it.  And it does give an added dimension of importance to those who are bridge builders, who work so that an alternative solution can be agreed upon by all parties involved in order to avoid the "enslavement" or the "war." These bridge builders go by many names, some are called diplomats, others community organizers, other peace activists.  And there are many others. 

    God help us all if the bridge builders fail.



    Blessed are the peacemakers in these times when people talk without speaking and hear without listening.

     


    I love what Art has to say in the beginning of this piece.  Thank you for finding this particular version. 


    Ah, yes. Thank you, AT.

    Interesting. But, taking over by force and then establishing a more humane form of government would eventually come down to you convincing 51% of the population that what you did was right, otherwise, you'd have to maintain your forcible control in order to ensure your more humane and fair government is established. But, then that wouldn't really be more humane and fair, except for the people who did the overthrowing.  It would just make the revolutionaries into more benevolent despots than the ones they overthrew.   So at some point your new and improved democracy will have to turn power back to 'the people', and God forbid, they vote against your revolution, return power to the previous regime, have you arrested for treason and beheaded.  Then you're screwed.  So, my first question to you would be, how do you ensure 51% of Americans will go along with you?  Or are you just willing to gamble? When rolling the Revolutionary dice, remember the odds are always with the House.


    Excellent points, all, Mr. Smith.  And I'll add that I think our ties to other countries, whether it be monetary or otherwise, would have to come into play as well.

     


    Forceable control is what we are under right now.


    That's an exaggeration.


    Education..otherwise know as propaganda. Getting the message out. Over 51% of the people already hate and/or distrust the goverment.


    Very few of us love and trust our gov't, C, but if you think it makes sense to overthrow it....more power to you.  Oy.

     


    A good majority of people want to keep Gitmo going.  Power to the people.  Sometimes you get George Washington and sometimes you get Robespierre saying things like "Terror is nothing else than swift, severe, indomitable justice; it flows, then, from virtue."


    And to each their own sense of virtue.


    The powers that be have been fearing insurrection since the first factory was moved to Mexico.  The volunteer military is predominately conservative.  The major pools for police recruits are the highly-trained killers honed via our Marines and Army.  Unions have been broken.  Most metropolitan areas have armored equipment in reserve.  Will those who have sworn to "Protect and Serve" hesitate to break a picket line?  Ask hundreds of thousands of Afghani and Iraqi civilian next-of-kins.  The opportunity for brute revolution was neutralized when corporate America chose to decimate the power of the middle class.  As the monied class planned for the decimation, they, also, prepared for any civil reaction.  Many times, I have watched chest thumpers turn and run when met with resistance.  Assymmetric warfare can be defined in "many" forms.


    Anyone who thinks we can all solve our country's problems by having an armed uprising needs to sit back, relax, and think very, very hard.  I'm putting that nicely.

     


    I used to play an excellent game of chess, Lis.  Have you read "1984?"  It's pretty-much a classic.  Especially for an individual with such an avid interest in today's socio\economic environment.  I've watched you evolve over several months...superb!  May I suggest, as you have to me...Think hard -- very, very hard!


    I'm pretty well-read, Chuck.  And I'm pretty open-minded.  And sensible. 

    So I like to take my thoughts, the books I've read, and history all into account when I make a statement like I've made here tonight in this particular post.

    I suck at chess, but I can shoot a .22.  Does that make me good or bad in your eyes?

    I mean, really.  Overthrowing the US goverment??  Are we really going to even entertain the thought? 


    As in chess, Lis, one runs out of options.  In a democracy, the populace  has the opportunity to "overthrow" one's government every two  to four years -- unless the option is rigged.  Then...What is one to do??


    While we're talking Orwell, may I suggest Animal Farm?

    No question now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.


    Sorry, dude.  Not takin' a ride in this Doomsmobile.

    I hope Mr. Rall's book is successful and he makes enough money to keep him in typewriter paper for a long time, but if he was really serious about overthrowing the government, he'd give his how-to manual away for free.

    The gloom masters of the world have exhausted me at last.


    I'm with you Flower.  I'm glad this dude was able to get a book written and published, but if C's stance on it is any indication, I think it will just sit on shelves.  Now, there's another good book out there right now that deserves all of our attention and respect......not sure you've heard of it yet?  It's called "Blowing Smoke". I've already read it, thanks to Donal sending me a copy, and I'm now sending it on to my right-leaning Independent sister because I know she needs to read it even more than we do.

    Wink


    This government was designed to offer an easier way to enable a disgruntled mass to peacefully 'overthrow' the current system and install a more fair and humane government by organizing, campaigning and voting.  What now thwarts that intention is Corporate influence.  The way to get what we want is to first kill corporate and monetary influence of politicians.  Step one, pack the Supreme Court with justices that will reverse the Citizens United decision, Step two, pass strong campaign finance legislation to eliminate the flow of money from vested interests to campaigns, and Step three, convince 51% of voters that your ideas have merit.  Simpler than a forcible takeover, and it avoids a lot of beheadings. 


    But you will never get rid of the corporate masters until you get rid of their defenders and enablers as well. They go hand in hand. Corporate America chooses who you will vote for and the appearance of having a choice. Regardless of who you pick, they are the voice and hands of the corporations. Rest assured.


    “You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporatio­ns. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and informatio­n you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-infor­med, well-educa­ted people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests."

    -- George Carlin
    And they sure as hell do not want this to change one bit.

    I totally agree with George Carlin and you, on that point, but ,,, if that's the problem, why are you suggesting forcible change of the government?  If the government doesn't work because of corporations, why not go to the source and overthrow and / or dismantile Wall Street? You could make Ben and Jerry the co-heads of the SEC and force corporations to go back to producing and selling products and outlaw speculating of any kind or limit speculating to certain areas which are strictly regulated. 

    To me, that actually sounds easier. LOL


    Because the government will make damn sure that does not happen.


    Well, then we're screwed either way aren't we? (sigh) Okay, we'll do it your way.  Call me when your angry mob is ready to make its move. (I want to hide so they don't accidentally hit me by mistake.)


    I doubt that I will have to and that angry mob will most likely be from the right rather than the left since they do not believe they have that much too loose.


    And therein lies the problem with using violence as a solution, no? How can we justify violence for what we think is correct and condemn it when others are imposing their judgments through it (e.g., in the defense of a fetus)?


    Oh boy ... Ted Rall?

    Get a fricking grip... and grip it real tight.

    A marginally successful political cartoonist and columnist who fed on the angst of the twentysomethings and Generation X of the 90's becomes the latest in a long line of writers throughout history who stand at the top of the ramparts egging the crowd on and then as the tumult rises he's last seen walking away with a fat sum for his scribblings?

    I personally view with a jaundiced eye any individual who spent as much time as Rall spent traveling so freely back in the late 90's up into 2006-7 in China and Central Asia through the former areas of what was once the Soviet empire. And specifically his U.S. State Department-sponsored visit to Turkmenistan "teaching" the nature of free press in a democracy to students.

    As Stymie in the Our Gang Comedies once said... OK Buckwheat!

    I also personally view this screed as what I've referred to for almost five decades back to the days of the SDS as ...shaking the dissident tree.

    You see, one never knows what subversive nuts will shake out of the foliage.

    Hint hint ... Which side is he REALLY on?

    That's why I say get a fricking grip...

    Slowly back away from the cake.

    ~OGD~

    .


    Please; if you're going to quote Stymie, he actually said, "O-tay, Buttwheat."


    At its inception and throughout our history, our system of governance has been predicated on the ability of "We, the People" to bring about change at the ballot box. And only a fool gives up on that in favor of a violent overthrow or putsch or coup d'etat. Ultimately, it would seem, you have faith in democracy, or you don't. And I haven't quite yet abandoned faith in our ability to self-govern to choose instead a desperate attempt to force righteous change upon the population.

    Democracy is hard work. I'm reminded about Franklin's warning offered on the threshold of this experiment in governance when asked what form of government "We, the People" had just installed. "A Republic, if you can keep it," was the answer.

    I completely understand c's frustration that lies at the root of his rant. But I disagree with the implication that perhaps its time to storm the barricades when we haven't first tried to actually engage the hard work of a democracy, which is the effective petitioning of the electorate with an alternative to our presently corrupted and compromised government.

    At present, we essentially have but one political party. Both Dems and Repubs are in the pocket of the monied interests. Repubs, I understand. The oligarchs are their natural constituency. But the Dems? Herein lies the crux of the problem. The political party that should be carrying the water for the working stiffs and the poor is presently in the tank for the other side in all matters of importance. And this is becoming more of a problem than ever.

    It seems to me that the answer to present problems is to commit the hard work of re-shaping the Dem Party into a vehicle that represents the proletariat in the CLass War being waged against us. And that will come about only if we first find a way to purge the Dem Party of the Obamas and the Blue Dogs and the DLC and the Clintons and the Emanuels and all rest who so wilfully play the game in accord with the script provided to them by their corporate owners. In its place, you establish real leadership capable of (and enabled to) present(ing) a message of strength and redemption to the middle class and the poor. Show me a poitical movement that is capable of knocking the monied interests on their ass, and I guarantee an overwhelming level of support from the masses in providing that movement with the authority to do so. The Dem Party could be - and must be! - that movement going forward.

    But time is running out, which is something I become keenly aware of when considering Mr. Smith's prescription (rightly considered and advocated) posted in the comments above to "kill corporate money and influence" by affecting change in seating of Supreme Court Justices and campaign finance law, etc.

    As it was once said by Justice William O. Douglas:

    "As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air however slight lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."

    I fear the darkness that is nearly upon us. We can no longer abide the opportunity cost of supporting and electing these Palooka-Dems in a hope that "they won't do too much harm." Not even in 2012. Instead, while time remains in the twilight of this democracy, we need to raise the alarm loudly and hopefully stir within the population at last a willingness to fight back against oppression by providing them a vehicle both worthy and capable of making such an effort. The Dem Party could become such an oppositional force in Washington working on behalf of the peoople against their oppressors. Indeed, making a second party of the Democrats is, in my estimation, the best if not only real chance we have.

    "A Republic, if you can keep it."

    Keep the Faith. And then roll up your sleeves with me and others to commit the hard work to make it happen. It can be accomplished, but only if you first have faith in your fellow man sufficient to drive a wholesale and difficult effort to rescue democracy itself.

    Carpe diem! At last, carpe diem.

     


    That's a great comment SJ. Perhaps the Tea Party represents a fumbling first step towards doing, "the hard work of democracy," and perhaps our response should be to do the same hard work for our own interests. Instead people want someone else, whether Obama or Palin or Beck or Stewart or Assange, to step in, do all the work and solve all their problems for them. As Amy Goodman said, we have to make Obama do the right things.


    I definitely agree, Donal, that we can learn a thing or two from the driving forces that propel Dick Armey's disingenuous Tea Party Phenomenon. Populist anger is palpable throughout the country, and Armey has very deliberately and quite cynically provided an outlet for that populist anger in the absence of any real and legitimate alternative.

    In Obama's case, I have abandoned all hope that he is capable of pulling himself and the Party away from the corporate teat long enough to do what's required. The ball is definitely in his court to prove he's capable of FDR type leadership of the kind that allows for rhetoric such as:

    "Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred."

    It would begin with a speech wherein Obama announces that we are taking bold steps forward in a new direction; that he and the Democrats have had enough of the ways of Washington that insist the corporate masters must be given primary consideration before the work of the people can be engaged. It must include a challenge that the Dems are now ready to stick a fork in the neck of the monied interests who have grown so rapacious as to demand $700 billion in tax cuts when the rest of the country struggles to put food on the table and a roof over their head.

    Obama ain't got it in him, I fear. And time's a-wasting. We'd do well to put our efforts in seeking a replacement for 2012 and purging the Party of its ties to K Street as its limiting force with notice served that the people's interests will now reign supreme, and that we will not be compromised any longer in deference to our monied masters.

    Obama has had his chance, and he has been a dismal failure in the most important category of being an honest broker on behalf of the Democratic constituency. He could change all that, and he has wonderful tools at his disposal to do so (his rhetorical skills; Organizing for America; etc.). But we are fools if we put everything on hold hoping he somehow, someday will see the light. Darkness awaits instead, and we best be lighting a few lamps of real "hope and change" or just go quietly instead into that dark night.


    One Nation Working Together was an attempt at a grassroots movement for change for those sick of an effective freeze of wages at 1973 levels, corporate bailouts, no EFCA passed, punitive tax policy for working families, etc.  The D.C. rally was poorly attended, and came the week before Stewart's rally.  Feh!  (I wondered how many chose to go there instead; who knows?)

    Those who are more in favor of 'move your money' and internet-spread boycots of banks and corporations have something, though none of those movements seemed to have materialized in any grand ways; both forms may be necessary.

    As far as Obama, all the signals he's given to date say that he intends to 'work more closely with Republicans' for his remaining two years, which may mean that Dems for Economic Justice, etc. will be forced to make end runs around the President; a sobering thought.  I keep seeing Sherrod Brown in that role.  I think the House Dems can be lit up, save for the Melissa-Bean-caucus.  ;o(  You go, Jeezus!


    The Soviet Union and United States comparisons are especially salient when you present two corresponding dilemmas: both ended up at a point of stalemate in which neither had the ability to profit any longer. Free trade has resulted in manufacturing taking off in India and China and declining in the US, with the apparently misguided notion by leaders that America could sustain as a consumer economy. For largely different reasons, the Soviet Union was not profitable and enjoyed the same end result that we seem headed towards. The Soviets and the Americans both did share endless wars, however, one of them even in the same country.

    I would posit that the United States has been in many regards a phony union. Seattle, Washington, for instance, shares more in values and worldview with Vancouver, British Columbia than it does with Lexington, Kentucky or even the metropolises of the Northeast. People are better able to manage their lives and make personal political change at a local level than through a national government that often puts them at odds with people that have entirely different priorities and worldview.


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