Wattree's picture

    RE: You’re White and Marched With Dr. King: So What?

    BENEATH THE SPIN • ERIC L. WATTREE
     
    RE: You’re White and Marched With Dr. King: So What?
     

    To Imani Grandy,

    My name is Eric Wattree.  I'm a writer, musician, poet, and old school revolutionary from the 60s (Google me). While I understand your passion, as a former Panther associate (I was never a joiner), I've seen unbridled passion before, and it's ALWAYS counterproductive.
    .
    Your position in this matter not only misrepresents the position of Martin Luther King, but also the realization that Malcolm X came to just before he was assassinated. What made Martin effective was he didn't run off angry and  half-cocked like many of us. He didn't allow his anger to circumvent his intellect.  He understood that Black people couldn't win the civil rights battle alone. He recognized from the outset that he needed to form a coalition by changing the hearts and minds of the American people, and then using the clout derived from that change to apply political pressure on our government. That's how things are changed in the United States. 
    .
    Yes, there was a lot of noise and commotion going on during the civil rights movement, but don't be misled. America wasn't afraid of Black people during the sixties, just as no one is afraid of us now. The powers that be have enough experience with Black people to know that all they have to do is call out the national guard and all they'll hear are crickets by nightfall - and besides, no battle has ever been won by flappin' lips anyway. So essentially, all the Netroots stunt was, was somebody's dumb and self-serving idea for a personal photo op.

    Again, battles are won by forming political coalitions - yes, political coalitions with White liberals like Bernie Sanders, who you so cavalierly flipped off - and also, inspiring people of every walk of life to embrace the cause of justice - justice for ALL.  Martin understood this, and later, so did Malcolm. But due to Martin's resolve in this matter, and his refusal to see us slaughtered en mass by taking to the streets in violence (as many young hot headed idiots like myself were determined to do), we started calling him Martin Luther "Coon." You see, we were too young and dumb to realize that we couldn't out-scream injustice, and we couldn't out-fight the military. You must out-think injustice, and all those who insist on relying on anger over thought are a liability to both the people, and the people's cause. 
    .
    More people are turning out to hear Bernie Sanders than any other politician in America. So all you've done is managed to antagonize thousands of people who you should be trying to gather as allies. So there's only one word that adequately describes such an action - STUPID.

    We're In A Class War - Open Your Eyes
     

    We must never forget that God made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to THINK, not to act in reckless stupidity. Thus the attack on Sen. Bernie Sanders was unwarranted, and just that - and act of unmitigated stupidity,  and it was exactly the kind of political stunt that's giving the 1%ers and social manipulators the upper hand against the people. NEVER ATTACK YOUR ALLIES!!! By doing so you only lend legitimacy to the allegations, distortions, and propaganda of your enemy. So if whoever came up with the idea of organizing this stunt against Sanders and O'Malley didn't have sense enough to recognize such a  fundamental reality, neither do they have sense enough to lead the people
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    Considering the content of the Republican clown car, and everything that the GOP has been doing, and saying, to undermine and divide the American working class, I find it next to impossible to believe that anyone acting with legitimate intent could be so politically naive and out of touch with reality that they'd believe that staging such a counterproductive political stunt would be in the best interest of either Black people, or the American working class. So I believe that stunt was staged by either a GOP ringer, or a political operative of one of the Democratic campaigns. 
    .
    It's my personal belief that Bernie Sanders' long record of civil rights activities - that go all the way back to when he was in the trenches with Martin Luther King and before many of his current critics were born - is clearly resonating with the people, and somebody's been caught off guard, because the people are beginning  to realize that what Bernie's been saying for decades is absolutely true. We're in the middle of a class war, and we can't out-fight the 1%ers, because they control the military, we can't out-scream the 1%ers, because they control the media, and we can't out-spend the 1%ers, because they control 90% of the nation's resources. But here's what we can do - we can out-organize and out-vote the 1%ers hands down, and that's what we must do if we're going to survive as a free nation.
    .

    So the working class needs to wake up and stop dividing itself into factions. ALL LIVES MATTER, and the working class in this country needs to come together and embrace that message. Black people, Hispanics, women's groups, and gays need to understand that none of our various groups can prevail alone. The 1%ers have established a solid front, and we'd better do the same or we're doomed, because our division is their most effective weapon.
    .
    On the other hand, if the people come together as a solid front, we can trump money. No matter how much money the 1%ers pour into their campaigns, if the people stand firm, the 1%ers can't win, because the only thing that money can buy in politics is votes, and we OWN the vote, if we would just wake up and recognize that.
    .
    And finally, I would be remiss if I failed to mention your grossly unappreciative and cavalier attitude toward the White liberals who believed so passionately in EVERYONE'S right to justice that they were willing to give up their lives so YOU could have one.  Those were very dangerous times during the Civil Rights movement, as evidenced by the fact that John and Robert Kennedy, Martin, and Malcolm are no longer with us. So I'm simply going to assume that what I can only refer to as your disgustingly cavalier attitude toward the sacrifices of those heroes is a direct response to a gross ignorance of that era on your part.  During that time, White liberals who fought for civil rights were considered traitors to their race. They were hated on a par with Osama Bin Laden, and many were kidnapped in the night and subjected to the most horrible forms of torture and death. Yet, you say, "So what!!!?"

    .
    But today it's about much more than simply the hatred of Black people. Today, they're simply USING the various hatreds - of Black people, Hispanics, Muslims, women's rights, and gays - to entice social bigots to keep the working class divided, and to vote against their own interests, and for their own enslavement. It's about dollars, and a lack of sense. It's a class issue, and you're playing right into it. The 1%ers don't care any more about poor and middle-class White people than they do Black people or other minorities.  So it's imperative that we ALL come together on EVERY issue as a CLASS, and stop trying to fight little skirmishes as individual factions. That's a losing battle.  That's why we're still fighting Martin's battle fifty years later, because we have yet to learn that lesson. But it's a lesson that conservatives have learned well:

    .
    SCOTT WALKER: DIVIDE AND CONQUER
     
     
    Eric L. Wattree

    Religious bigotry: It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does. 

    Comments

    Coalitions form because an organizer reaches out to a variety of groups, Sanders has to reach young people, old people, working class people, retirees, and minorities. If black voters are concerned about racial bias, Sanders has to express concern about racial bias. If he does not address the concerns of black voters, he gives their votes to Hillary Clinton. 

    In California and Washington D.C., there was no community outreach on the issue of Gay marriage. The result was that black voters cast votes against Gay marriage. When there was community outreach, blacks in DC voted for Gay marriage. Marion Barry was popular, but not popular enough to get blacks to vote down Gay marriage as Barry advised.

    The first thing Sanders has to do to effect change on a bold national level, is get elected. To get elected, Sanders has to address black concerns.


    RM,

    I have to disagree with you here.  We've got to start educating the American people to start thinking in terms of justice in general, not just justice for one faction at a time. We've got to stop factionalizing our efforts. So how do we do that?  It's very easy.  Whenever an issue comes up - let's say gay rights - we don't just address the issue from the perspective of gays, we address it from the perspective HUMAN justice, and we should address every issue in that way. That way, when the religious nuts start trying to confuse the issue with morality, we can argue that every person on Earth, gay or straight, are entitled to all of the rights that they enjoy. In addition, when a Black person is killed, it's not just a Black issue.  We address it as a HUMAN issue. That takes the politics out of it. We must never stray from the bottom line, and the bottom line is, "Equal Justice For All." It's as simple as that, and it's simply a matter of reprogramming the way that people think.


    Education is a two-way street. It implies that there is communication going on between two communities. White Gays have to have outreach in the black community. Black Gay activists had to force change as well. The vote in DC changed because of outreach.

    We have had loud voices like Medea Benjamin and Larry Kramer in the white community trying to effect change. Many of their tactics were over the top, but they continued on. BlackLivesMatter is just another new loud voice. Like Benjamin and Kramer, they can be irritating.

    We can all join together for common issues, but the loud voices are often the spark that gets things ignited. Governor Haley was willing to deal with the Confederate flag at a later date. Pressure from black activists convinced corporate heads that they could not to business with SC if the flag remained. Haley turned on a dime and bowed to corporate pressure to bring the flag down.

    We had video of the murder of Tamir Rice, and there has been no indictment.  How fast we got indictments in the case of North Charleston, Baltimore, and now Cincinnati. Loud black voices carried the day. 

    In Stop and Frisk, Sharpton reached out to Gay activist and OWS. Moral Mondays and the Dream  Defenders have always been ethnically diverse. OWS, for example, did not seem to do much outreach, and faced little criticism for much of its lifespan. How diverse is Code Pink?


    There has to be better communication overall. There are issues specific to women, ethnic groups, equal orientations, etc.Problems have to be attacked keeping in mind that not all groups are impacted in an identical fashion. One solution may be ideal for men, but ignore the impact on women. I don't think that one size fits all works in real life. Communication has to be good enough so that multiple concerns are addressed.

     


    RM, You said,
    .
    There are issues specific to women, ethnic groups, equal orientations, etc.  Problems have to be attacked keeping in mind that not all groups are impacted in an identical fashion.

    I think you're overcomplicating this issue. Regardless to whether an issue is specific to men, women, Blacks, gays, or Hispanics, all of the issues that have an impact on all of these various groups have one thing in common - whether the impact on the group is just or unjust, and that should always be the bottom line. Think about it.  Regardless to what the group, or what the issue, the grievance is ALWAYS injustice, so that's what needs to be addressed.
    .
    What your position clearly demonstrates is that we've been so thoroughly conditioned to being factionalized (divided), that we can no longer even imagine approaching life in any other way. But we're going to have to, because we're rapidly being enslaved - Blacks and Whites. And it won't be the first time that conservatives enslaved White people in modern times. The last time it happened we called it "The Great Depression." 
    .


    Image result for The great depression


           


    There are a multitude of problems requiring a multitude of approaches. The benefit of factions is that people become experts on approaching solutions to given problems. Each faction puts pressure on governments and corporations to change. Fast-food workers put themselves on the line to fight for an increase in minimum wage. Activists put themselves on the line to deal with police abuse. They are aided by video evidence. Putting pressure at multiple points can effect change. I think what you are asking to happen is already happening. 

    The Republicans have Koch money, Adelson money, etc. We have voters and activists. I see the money people fighting a losing battle. Both Clinton and Sanders crush any Republican when there is a head to head comparison.

    We are already united. Jeb Bush purged black voters and has flipped on immigration. Trump will crash and burned if he faces Clinton or Sanders. We are united in that we will push for alternatives to the Republicans. Donna Edwards is running in Maryland. Alan Grayson is running in Florida.

    What specific changes would you like to see? 


    RM,

    Education goes in every direction. That's what makes it so important to a viable democracy. My point is this, and it's quite simple. What makes conservatives so effective against liberals - in fact, there are so few of them compared to moderates and liberals, the only reason they can survive - is they stand as one solid and inseparable force, while liberals represent a numerous group of factions who in many cases hate each other. An example of that can be found in the way many radical Blacks feel about Mexican immigrants, and also the attitude of many Black religious fanatics regarding a woman's right to choose, and gay rights.  

    So liberals need to wake up, because they're much too factionalized, which makes them easily manipulated. Undocumented workers are not taking Black jobs; the 1%ers are sending them overseas, and they're dangling just enough jobs under our noses in the U.S. to keep us fighting over them, and thus, divided as a working class. And what gays do in the privacy of their bedrooms is their business, not the business of Black preachers. To be liberal means to be open-minded, so if you're against gay marriage, just don't marry a gay person and leave it at that.

    I don't understand how one man can feel romantically attracted to another man myself - I don't even like to shake hands. But I don't have to understand it, because it's not a part of my life, and what other men do is none of my business. 


    I think at the end of the day, whoever the Republicans select from the clown car will crash and burn nationally. The GOP has declared itself as the party of the white elite. A third of the country will follow whoever the Republicans select because they hate government, even if they live on a government subsidy. There are some who are xenophobes, some misogynists, and some Christian fundamentalists. When people start paying attention, the Republicans will lose.

    The GOP cannot win ethnic minorities, single white women, and college educated people. The demographics are against the GOP. Our job is to encourage people to vote. Vote for Hillary or vote for Bernie. I could see Sanders/Clinton or Clinton/Sanders. Someone suggested appointing Obama to SCOTUS, that would be icing on the cake.

    Donna Edwards is running for the Senate in Maryland. If we can get candidates like her in the Senate and House, Election Day will be a great celebration. Women, minorities, working people, unions, and immigrants are all under attack by the GOP. That fact binds us together despite any squabbles we may have.

    Gays had some court decisions go their way. Blacks had court setbacks. There was some grumbling in the black community, and then people got back to dealing with the real problem, the GOP. Moral Monday's got some relief in NC. The fight for the vote, education, etc. Goes on in the black community. The community is not trying to grab rights from other groups. The community is continuing the fight for its own goals.

    Despite the BLM outburst at Netroot Nation, Moral Mondays remains diverse. There are white faces showing up for protests against police abuse in multiple cities. Flare ups are expected. We went from Obamabots and PUMA to President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton. We come together when it is important. 

    I think Democrats are actually more united than Republicans. Republicans force their candidates to the far right to win primaries. It has taken Bernie Sanders, not the primary voters, to force Hillary to the Left. Democrats will accept Sanders or Clinton. Any Republican who talks about a path to citizenship for immigrants will be cast to the side.


    Thanks Wattree!


    I see it the same way.  


    Let us try this again.

    But in stages.

    I love the Untouchables.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_(film)

    Kevin Costner is aided by Connery in his search for booze.

    Everyone knows where the booze is.

    Yet there are no indictments.

    In LA today and in chicago today and in 100 urban areas, the gangs are not that hidden.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/violence-mars-chicago-holiday-weekend-50-reportedly-injured/story?id=24446308

    I will stop here and come back

    See there is something wrong in my software.

    But here we go again.

    There are Black Gangs and White Skinhead Gangs and Asian Gangs and Russian Gangs and....oh who cares?

    O'Reilly tells us , that all gang Activity relates to Blacks.

    The vast majority of Blacks being killed arise from Black Violence.

    But it turns out that Whites kill Whites.

    I do not care about percentages right now.

    The cops know where the gangs are.

    The cops know who the gangs are.

    The cops know where the drugs are or where the weapons are are where other contraband is.

    We have a problem as a city and as a county and as a state and as a nation.

    Here is O'Reilly achieving only what O'Reilly can do

    http://www.salon.com/2015/07/30/bill_oreilly_declares_himself_black_americas_greatest_champion_scolds_blacklivesmatter_for_gestapo_tactics/

     

     


    One good thing is Bill O'Reilly's  audience will soon age out.  I give Fox 5 more years and their ratings will be in the grave yard. 


    Dick,
    .
    O' Reilly is an idiot, and he was hired to appeal to other idiots.  And by the way, I have the perfect solution for the gang problem. Everybody who is arrested and convicted for gang activity should be sent into the Marine Corps.  Then they can be taught what it really means to be a gangster. It sure worked for me.  I not only lost my taste for unnecessary violence, but they educated me in the process.  So if you're still around, thank you, Your Honor.  


    Eric, I apologize.

    My PC went nuts.

    But I had these thoughts and I do not feel like blogging them on my own.

    I would represent poor whites and blacks in the olden days.

    We had muni judges in those days.

    some kid, 18-24 would be charged on a DAS (driving after suspension) and the judge, especially in some adjutant jurisdiction, would look avuncular and mean. hahahahaha

    And that judge would just look at the charges and look at the prosecutor and then yell at my client.

    Then he would put the 'charge' in his drawer and tell my client that if he ever fucked up again, he would be in jail forever.

    That is a fact.

    And the kid would become so goddamn scared.....

    One judge, whom I loved, would call for a recess and call me into chambers and we would both have a smoke together.

    And before all this, I had friends in the garden of white eden who would fuck up and that was their ticket into the armed forces. hahahah

    Records would be erased and the fellow would have a new chance at life....

    That is what happened.

    But we got into this NEW ERA and three strikes and you are 'out' and ....

    I am sure that these things still go on.

    I mean prosecutors appear ex parte all the time anyway.

    But the prosecutor does not wish to piss off his or her local judge.

    I was thinking about this.

    Well put.

    the end


    Mr. Wattree gets right to the heart of the matter...

    "We've got to start educating the American people to start thinking in terms of justice in general, not just justice for one faction at a time. We've got to stop factionalizing our efforts."

    Rinse, wash and repeat... and say it louder...

    "We've got to start educating the American people to start thinking in terms of justice in general, not just justice for one faction at a time. We've got to stop factionalizing our efforts."

    Thank you Mr. Wattree...

    ~OGD~


    How ya doin ducky?

    always goooooooooood to see ya.

    hahahahah

    Are we factionalizing our efforts or fictionalizing them?

    well done.

    I hereby render unto Ducky the Dayly Line of the Day Award for this here Dagblog Site, given unto him from all of me for this gem:

    We've got to stop factionalizing our efforts.

    I don't know why, this line just got to me.

    And I am so very happy to see you show up once in a while.

    Have a good day.


    Thank you, Eric.  Thank you.


    The electorate is going to persist in having factions in 2016. Should a program addressing surveillance go to Congress before a bill addressing police abuse? Should immigration go before women's rights? The factions are going to remain. The successful candidate is going to have to insure voters that their causes are at least on the candidate's radar. I don't see the process in 2016 being any different from prior elections. The factions are still going to want their issues addressed first.

    (Color me a cynic.)


    BLM is a young aggressive group. They disrupted Netroot Nation. White Progressives who feel attacked should be aware that BLM disrupted a protest organized by Reverend Al Sharpton in December 2014. BLM felt that Sharpton was attempting to co-opt their movement (protesting police abuse)

    http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/12/the_fierce_urgency_of_no...

    They make clear that the old line black leadership does not speak for BLM.

    http://blacklivesmatter.com/al-sharpton-does-not-have-my-ear-why-we-need...

    BLM marches to the beat of its own drum and will criticize regardless of race.

     


    RM,

    I'm sure you know that the FBI brought down the civil rights movement with Cointelpro by sending Judas goats into the various civil rights organizations and creating factions that turned on one another within the groups. As a result, the various groups ended up disintegrating.  It's a basic law of nature. if you twist a hundred strands of thread together, they are much stronger than a hundred strands of thread standing separately.  Even in physics, nothing is actually solid. Everything is actually made up of zillions of individual atoms pressed closely (or working) together. Thus, individual factions are always weak and vulnerable for two reasons. First, once any entity is divided, it becomes weaker. That's a basic law of nature.  And secondly, with respect to human factions, once they become factions, they become vulnerable to being manipulated into turning on one another - and a perfect example of that is what took place during the Bernie Sanders incident at Netroots.
    .
    Thus, the key to life is to always keep life simple. And in this case, simplicity is simply to always fight for justice for all. When we take that tact, you don't need factions. We don't need specialists to recognize either justice, or injustice, when you see it.  In fact, single-issue thinkers are one of our biggest problems, because they tend to think that everybody who's not personally impacted by their single issue is the enemy.  That's what we just saw with BLM.   


    I understand that we need to be united. I think that for the most part, we are united. Gays made significant advances while blacks lost ground on voting rights. There was no large call to criticize the Gay community. Voting Rights advocates kept working. On the Republican side, we are seeing fissures between big bucks people like the Kochs and Donald Trump. Jeb Bush's big money backers have not yet got their money's worth. I tend to see the big split on the GOP side. There is a great deal of attacking opponent's agendas on the GOP side. I don't see a great deal of friction on the Left. (Other than BLM)

    There will always be outliers. BLM has criticized the outpouring of grief about the death of Cecil the lion. They feel the expression of grief for the lion is more than the grief over black people dying in police custody. BLM adopted the hashtag "AllLionsMatter". Other black groups are not following BLM down the rabbit hole. BLM will sow its own seeds of destruction.

     


    I now look at BLM like I look at Cornel West and John McWhorter. BLM appear ready to criticize everyone who is not them. They have valid points about police abuse, but there are other groups capable of protesting police abuse. If they really decide to offend everybody, they will wind up like West, forgotten.


    RM, you said:
    .
    BLM is a young aggressive group. They disrupted Netroot Nation. White Progressives who feel attacked should be aware that BLM disrupted a protest organized by Reverend Al Sharpton in December 2014. BLM felt that Sharpton was attempting to co-opt their movement (protesting police abuse)

    That doesn't sound anything like solidarity to me.  In fact, it sounds just like a recipe for a 2016 disaster, and it makes my point perfectly.  If Black people could have an impact on this system alone as a faction, it would have long since been the case. We are now knee-deep in a CLASS WAR, and we've got to fight it as one faction - a class.
    .

     

    Pete Muller/AP

    Former president Jimmy Carter said Tuesday on the nationally syndicated radio show the Thom Hartmann Program that the United States is now an “oligarchy” in which “unlimited political bribery” has created “a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors.” Both Democrats and Republicans, Carter said, “look upon this unlimited money as a great benefit to themselves.”

    .
    So you see, the 1%pers don't care about our factional issues.  Actually, they're USING factionalism to keep the working class divided. 


    BLM is one group. If it is strong enough to break a coalition, the coalition wasn't that strong to begin with. At the Urban League today, both Clinton and Sanders addressed issues that the audience wanted to hear. Sanders and Clinton will get black support on economic issues, immigration, job creation, etc. I think that there is already a coalition.

    Who needs to be educated?

    I see the Urban League audience supporting Sanders or Clinton. Do you disagree?

    Are you saying that neither candidate can make a difference?

    Do you think the black working class votes against its own interests?

    What faction of the working class are we discussing?

    I'm not trying to be difficult. Are there other groups besides BLM that are problematic?


    RM,
    .
    I know you're not trying to be difficult.  I've long since recognized that I corner the market on neither knowledge, wisdom, nor intelligence.  I know I may not sound like it sometimes, but that's only because I'm trying to put forth my argument as forcefully and with as much confidence  as I can. But believe me, I do recognize, and respect, the fact  that you have your own mind. So I don't take any disagreement that you might have with me as an act of intellectual heresy. While a large part of my mission is to educate, in order to successfully carry out that mission, I must also be open to BEING educated as well, and I am. In fact, since I don't watch television AT ALL, most, if not all of my opinions are forged by discussing, and then considering the thoughts of people just like yourself. Long after this discussion is over I will be considering some of the points that you've made here. I doubt very seriously that you're going to change my opinion regarding the need for working class solidarity, but some things you say here may influence my opinion in other areas. 

    But with respect to BLM, you said,

    BLM is one group. If it is strong enough to break a coalition, the coalition wasn't that strong to begin with.

    It's not a matter of BLM breaking a coalition. The problem is, their negative, thoughtless, counterproductive, and cannibalistic behavior is a gross distraction from what SHOULD  be the primary goal of the working-class coalition - to educate the American people to the fact that the Corporate-Republican Alliance is the domestic enemy of the United States. And in order to achieve that goal, the working class must focus on ANY injustice against ANY working class group as an opportunity to drive that point home.  The working class coalition must act as one, and if we're to be effective, we don't need any loose cannons out there who are more interested in being seen on television and trying to make a name for themselves than they are our primary mission. 
    .
    That's one of the reasons that I'm so hard in Cornel West.  He's more interested in the promotion of Cornel West than he is the issues that he professes to be most interested in. As a result, he's a distraction. I put out a challenge several years ago for ANYONE to give me just ONE memorable or profound assessment of reality that can be readily attributable to Cornel West in his more than 35 years in the public spotlight, and I haven't gotten one response yet. The reason for that is, there are none.  Cornel West is the Liberace of faux intellectualism and he's been a gross distraction away from every issue that he professes to promote. For the past 35 years, Cornel West has been less a Black leader as he's been a Black affliction. 
    .
    West is a walking monument to the distractions inherent in factionalism. First, factionalism tends to create a single-issue mentality that often loses sight of the primary objective.  Secondly, when we create factions we also create far too many opportunities for self-serving egomaniacs to create their own little fiefdoms within each faction. Thereafter, they often see defending their fiefdom as far more important than the ultimate goal of achieving justice for all. If we examine the bottom line it becomes clear that was the actual source of Tavis Smiley and Cornel West's snit with Barack Obama - they felt Obama just popped up out of nowhere and encroached upon their Black fiefdom. Listen to their sense of arrogant entitlement in the video below. They act as though Obama had some sort of  an OBLIGATION to come and kiss Tavis smiley's ring and get his blessing to run for president.  

     

     

     

    And finally, factionalism also creates a major opportunity for outside manipulation - remember  the FBI's "Cointelpro" operation that was useful in bringing down the civil rights movement?"  The FBI simply inserted Judas goats in the various civil rights groups. The plants then stirred up dissension within the groups and starting them fighting among themselves,  and then one another.  So again, factionalism is the bane of any organized effort to obtain either justice, or any other objective. We should have learned that long before Conintelpro.  We should have learned that lesson from Willie Lynch.  


    Eric, i think you have gone off the deep end with your description of these young Black women activists as ' cannibalistic'  and inferring that they must be FBI plants. They did take a bite out of Bernie's shining white armor but they are already on the receiving end of the FBI's and Ferguson Police surveillance and branding as 'threats'. It's telling that both of these forces are led and overseen by Democrat administrations.

    It's always entertaining to watch the liberal  Democrats stumble over their own shortcomings during a campaign or anytime and then witness the True Believers rally to attack anyone who brings up difficult questions  or demands anything related to justice.


    Peter,

    I didn't imply that anyone associated with BLM was working for the FBI. Perhaps you should go back and read through the thread. The subject of Cointelpro and the FBI came up as a side discussion of one of the problems with factionalism - the vulnerability of factions to being manipulated by outside forces. So I really don't know what you're talking about here.


    One of the founders of BlackLivesMattter was on Melissa Harris-Perry's show yesterday. The focus was on police brutality. There may be some who find the message divisive. The groups do reject the hashtag that AllLivesMatter because they feel it reflects a truth, white lives already matter and there is no need to reaffirm that reality.

    Young black people feel diminished. I think we see battles between a black teen actress and a white teen model over who is "allowed" to wear cornrolls as amusement. When we consider that young black girls are sent home from school for wearing cornrolls, we realize that black pay a penalty for wearing black hair. That black teen objecting to the cornrolls is reflecting a trauma that goes along with the cornrolls that the white teen model will never face. 

    Black adults have to realize the trauma young black people face and let them know that adults understand what young people are facing. Black youth do feel that their lives do not matter. Ta-Nehisi Coates recognizes this pain in his new book. I think one problem we have is that we cannot tell BLM that everything is going to be OK. We know that another unarmed black person will be killed by police before summer's end.

    When BLM complains about the massive outpouring of grief over the death of a protected lion, we have to have a response that points out the ongoing battle to reign in police violence and the number of people fighting the good fight.

    Al Sharpton is making an attempt to address BLM

    Ben Carson finds BLM "silly"

     

     

     


    RM,


    While your comment is valid, it also makes my point -  a much bigger point in my opinion.  You said the following:

    Young black people feel diminished. I think we see battles between a black teen actress and a white teen model over who is "allowed" to wear cornrolls as amusement. When we consider that young black girls are sent home from school for wearing cornrolls, we realize that black pay a penalty for wearing black hair. That black teen objecting to the cornrolls is reflecting a trauma that goes along with the cornrolls that the white teen model will never face. 

    This statement clearly demonstrates my point. If ALL of the Black, White, Hispanic, Female, and gays don't come together as a CLASS to fight this INJUSTICE, we ALL lose, because this is not just an assault on Black people; this is an assault on JUSTICE, and that's the way we should view it. If we don't, it presents an opportunity for the enemies of justice to use the situation to make the Black teen not only resentful of injustice, but resentful of the White model.
    .
    That's the most potent tactic that the 1%ers and social manipulators use to keep the American working class divided. They don't care any more about that middle-class White girl than they do the Black girl that they sent home for wearing her hair in cornrows.  What's really important to the social manipulators is keeping Black people resentful of that White girl, and as a result, making middle-class White people resentful of Black people for being hostile toward an innocent White girl for a situation that is completely beyond her control. After all, just the fact that she's wearing cornrows is a testament to her admiration for the Black culture.
    .
    You see, the powers that be have Black people resentful because we feel that we're being forced to endure what we THINK   is a White supremacist society.  But this ISN'T  a White Supremacist society, at least, in the sense that we think it is.  This is actually a CORPORATE SUPREMACIST society.  The 1%ers don't care any more about poor and middle class White people than they do Black people. They're simply using racial injustice to keep the poor and middle class divided.  
    .
    So poor and middle class Americans need to wake up, come together as a class, and save ourselves - while there's still time.
    .
     Image result for Martin Luther King, Injustice


    Our goal is the same, we are interpreting events differently. Gays pushed for years to gain equal rights to marriage. There are still job, economic, health care issues that have to be addressed. Latinos are looking for a rational immigration program and fighting discrimination. Blacks are fighting for their issues. I don't see these factions as divisive but as the method by which we learn of the crises faced by different communities.

    One of the canards used by the media during Obama's first campaign was that Latinos would not vote for a black man.Blacks and Latinos buried this nonsense by the actual voting process. Obama reached out to Latinos. And the majority of Latinos voted for the black guy. Majority-black DC voted for Gay marriage after the Gay community reached out to voters in DC. I see the factions as being important in communicating the humanity of one group to another.

    The discussion about cornrolls can make white girls aware of the bias black girls face for rocking the same hairstyle. The pain that the black teen feels can only be expressed if the black teen girl faction speaks out. The factions express the humanity of various groups.

    I see factions as an important part of life.

     


    BLM cannot bring down viable coalitions.

    BLM is loud and proudly factional. If there were a BLM instead of our current teachers unions, we would see teachers walking out of classrooms in protest of history textbooks being sold to schools despite gross distortion so far history. Indian reservations and slavery are afterthoughts. Our children are going to be dunces when it comes ton the history of the United States. They will laughingstocks when they converse with Canadians, Europeans, South Americans , Africans, or Asians. We need a vocal teachers faction.


    Artifacts from BLM protests are slated for inclusion in the National Museum of African American History and Culture at the Smithsonian. 

    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/08/01/428085104/black-lives-...

    The more I hear directly from members of BLM, the more I rate them as a positive. The #AllLionsMatter is over the top, but does address a true frustration. It is important that frustrations are openly expressed. Those who are offended by the hashtag are free to respond. A part of what is going on is us old folks adjusting to new ways of protest that are really not new. Medea Benjamin and Code Pink have had repeated in your face protests over the years. Al Sharpton has toned down his style of protest and is now a force to be reckoned with. BLM may follow a similar trajectory, or create one of their own.


    RM,

    We completely disagree on this issue.  But that's not surprising, since we've been conditioned from birth to separate ourselves into factions instead of simply seeing ourselves as human beings with a common goal - survival.
    .
    Many - probably, most people - have the same attitude as you regarding this issue, but that's only because of our need to feel unique and special in some way. But if everyone on Earth was of the exact same race, creed, and color, the right-handed people would find a way to claim that they're somehow superior to the left-handed people. That's brain stem thinking. It's a leftover remnant of our animalistic past, where our survival was more dependent on feeling than thinking. But now we have the benefit of a cerebral cortex, and we should utilize it to recognize that there's no more basic difference between one human being and another than there is a Black Cocker Spaniel and a Golden Cocker. There are only two types of people in this world - good people, and bad people - and we've got to learn to segregate ourselves in that manner, and not divide ourselves into so many factions that the "good people" diminish their effectiveness by diluting the strength of their numbers. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that concept.  It's such a fundamental law of reality that it rises to the level of a scientific principle.  


    I think the factions are important because they can point out specific things happening to specific people. I can't really know what is really on the minds of Latinos, LGBT people, etc are going through without them speaking out. No matter how good my intentions are, I can't speak for them. I don't see a way around that reality. We cannot be experts on what the most pressing issue is for a specific group. Different groups are targeted in different fashion. 

    Edit to add:

    One logistic problem in simply stating that we are all human is that we miss nuances. If we say we don't see color, gender, sexual orientation, etc. The individual would argue "then you don't see me." I think factions are beautiful just like diversity is beautiful. Figuring out that one solution does not fit all is part of the glory of life.

    Do we lump girls and boys together in schools? Do we separate out the girls so that their quest for scientific knowledge is not beaten out of them? Do we separate out the boys so that we focus on specific programs that keep them engaged? Factions are a good thing in my view.


    Yes, RM,

    But it all involves either justice or injustice.  When Hispanics are focused upon and then pricked by injustice, they're going to say, "ouch!" That should be enough to alert the working class that an act of injustice is taking place.  Thereafter, we should all come together to address that injustice. That doesn't require a specialist.
    .
    "Specialist" is often a euphemism for lobbyist, or advocate. We shouldn't be in the business of lobbying for any particular group, because once you start lobbying for one group, it's often to the disadvantage of another. So the Working-Class Alliance should have only one function - to defend the interest of the working class by promoting and defending policies that ensure that every working-class individual is treated justly. Period.    


    If Hispanics are being abused and we respond, we are responding for a specific group. We send a message that we will not tolerate similar behavior towards other groups. Accommodations made for black owned businesses benefited white women who were business owners.

    BLM screaming about police abuse in the black community has impact on how Latinos and poor whites are going to be treated. Moral Mondays fighting for black voting rights benefits older white voters without IDs who want to vote.  

    I see multiple beneficiaries when the problems of factions are addressed.

    Let's take a historical example. When Social Security was first passed, it excluded jobs that employed most blacks in the country. Not all of the working class benefited. It was "colorblind" and unequal. It took active protest to create the system we have now. The risk of not addressing the complains from factions is that we return to a pass where some are left out. Factions are the canaries in the coal mine.

    When Gays did not have the option of marriage, they were legally banned from enrolling on the healthcare plan of their partners, a faction specific solution was required. If a faction of people did not speak out, they would have been ignored.

     


    In the Social Security example, once non-whites were included the increase in benefits to whites was going to be changed. Once other groups are included the previously favored group can cry foul. Whether you call it attention to factions or the working class coming together, there are changes. In both scenarios, whites (especially white males) are no longer the sole beneficiaries.


    RM,

    You seemed to have missed my point.  I didn't say that there was no such thing as different segments of the population; I said that we shouldn't RESPOND  to injustice as factions.  We should respond to ALL issues as warriors against injustice. That would have handled your example of the inequity in Social Security at the very outset.  Because if we had come together to fight ALL injustice as a general more of our society, no program would have ever been put in place that excluded Black people in the first place, and that's my point. If we condition ourselves as a society to fight all injustice as a matter of principle, it wouldn't be necessary to create defensive, and more often than not, disruptive, factions.  You see, "faction," by definition, is a group designed to divide and disrupt.
    .

    fac·tion1
    ˈfakSH(ə)n/
    noun
    1. a small, organized, dissenting group within a larger one, especially in politics.
      "the left-wing faction of the party"
      synonyms:cliquecoteriecaucuscabalbloccampgroupgroupingsector,sectionwingarmbranchset; More
       

    I prefer the first definition.

    ocean-kat posted an article that points out the BLM has reached out to groups addressing a host of issues. It may satisfy your criteria.

    http://prospect.org/article/inclusive-strength-blacklivesmatter

    As I said, when I hear the members of BLM speak for themselves, I come away with a different impression than I get from media descriptions. I think they are just another force in the ongoing battle for justice.

     


    From a practical standpoint a faction of people are going to be impacted. People will respond to that faction because they realize that the faction is not being treated fairly. Factions led to movements on voting rights, immigration, Gay rights, etc. There is already a "human" response to problems impacting "factions". When South American children showed up at the border, the factions spoke out about the need to care for the children. 

    The same basic scam group that took down ACORN wants to take down Planned Parenthood. The media is too dumb to realize that it is getting played again. Some in Congress are to dumb to realize that they are getting played. After falling for the video snippets used against Shirley Sherrod, media and some in Congress are falling for video snippets of Planned Parenthood. As far as I can tell the factions are supporting PP.

    The coalitions are already in place.


    Also here is an explanation about why there is controversy about the AllLivesMatter hashtag. BLM is merely stating that black lives matter as well as white lives. BLM means black lives matter too. Not that only black lives matter. That white lives matter is taken as the norm,

    http://mic.com/articles/122541/heres-why-white-people-need-to-stop-sayin...

    There are ways that the state uses that directly impact black lives. Yes the response to injustice should be universal, but BLM can serve to identify how specific things done by the state under the banner of equal justice specifically impact black people. 

    I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. I see a faction as important in defining what is impacting a particular group. The impacted faction could be lost in the mix of a general population.

    Take asthma for example. Most children do well with asthma or outgrow asthma. When you subdivide the population, you find that black children are 5 times more likely to have an adverse asthma outcome. Without the impacted group raising the alarm, the discrepancy would be lost in the wilderness. There is nothing in the history of the United States to suggest that the problem would get serious attention without a faction drawing attention to the matter. Factions are natures way of igniting issues.

     


    MLK represented a faction. Other pastors objected to his style of dissent. King had children marching a facing firehoses and police dogs. Pastor told him that is was not Christian to be protesting in the streets. King told white pastors that by remaining silent they were doing the will of the racists. 

    The "Letter from a Birminham Jail" was the outrage expressed by the leader of a bold faction tired of other Progressive factions remaining silent. King and his followers represented a faction just like Malcolm X and BLM.


    RM,
    .
    You seem to be confusing "being a faction" - which every group is until we educate the people and change their mindset - and promoting a fractious agenda. Yes, since everyone didn't support Martin, you'd have to call his supporters a faction. But Martin's  method of operation and intent wasn't the least bit fractious or divisive.  Martin's intent was to do exactly what I'm suggesting - to bring every reasonable person in America together to promote the cause of justice, and that's what he did. 

     
    Eric L. Wattree's photo.

     


    Eric, 

    MLK chastised white Progressives. He let another faction, Fannie Lou Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party, get rolled over so that LBJ could get the votes for the Voting Rights Act. King when on to build an inclusive operation bold enough to speak out on the war. He lost a great deal of support by criticizing the war in Vietnam. King was a complex man. He may have been a vocal supporter of BLM.

    We will have to see where BLM ends up. King voiced black concerns initially. BLM is addressing black concerns. They are responding to unarmed blacks dying at the hands of the police. They see police literally get away with murder. They react with the same fervor that MLK demonstrated..

    It is incumbent on other Progressive groups to reach out and support BLM.

    Thanks for an interesting discussion.


    RM,
    .
    I feel the same furor as BLM over the brutal murder of Black people by the police, but reckless flailing isn't the proper way to address this issue.  All they're doing is venting, and more people are dying even as they vent. As I've said many times before, we can't out-scream the establishment, because they control the media; we can't out-fight the establishment, because they control the military, and we can't out-lobby the establishment, because they control the politicians.  So the only way that we're going to accomplish our objective of universal justice for the working class is for the working class to come together as one immutable force to promote that cause.  Having a bunch of wild and fractious loose cannons running around, all promoting their single-issue agendas, is an affliction, not an asset to our ultimate objective. 
    .
    We've got to learn to think differently than we have in the past, because what we've done in the past doesn't work, that's why we're in the position that we're in. We've got to start thinking outside of the box, and begin to realize that just because things have been done a certain way in the past, doesn't mean that's the way they have to be done in the future. We've got to change our thinking - and we'd better do it fast:
    .

    BENEATH THE SPIN • ERIC L. WATTREE

    Demographics Are Against the GOP, So They’ve Become Dangerous
    .

    Retired Army General said He’s Willing to Mount A Military Assault on the White House and Congress.

    .Retired army general, and FOX News analyst , Paul Vallely, is quoted as telling the Arizona Tea Party Patriots, "I had a call this afternoon from Idaho. The gentleman said, ‘If I give you 250,000 Marines to go to Washington, will you lead them?’" Vallely said as the group laughed and gasped. "I said, ‘Yes, I will, I’ll surround the White House and I’ll surround the Capitol building, but it’s going to take physical presence to do things."

    That’s chilling, and it's just as chilling that the remark isn’t front page news, and this retired general is walking around free.  While I'm no conspiracy nut, I think I'm on firm ground in suggesting that the situation boggles the mind, and that serious considerations must be taking place that the public isn't privy to that's preventing the government from taking action against such people.

    We need to wake up.


    I guess I see people being more united then you assume. The Republicans have been driven to the far right. They make racist statements about Latinos, suppress vote, uphold the Confederate flag, want to go to war with Iran, want to control women's bodies, etc. People are awake. The problems different groups point out are issues that the voting public agrees needs to be addressed.

    Edit to add:

    The importance of the factions is that they allow to mount a multi-pronged attack. We can fight battles simultaneously rather than one issue at a time. 


    Here is where activist black youth is today. An unarmed white teen is killed by police in a small town in South Carolina.. The circumstances are questionable. The is no outcry from the majority white town. There is no outcry from #AllLivesMatter. Who is questioning the death? BlackTwitter.  Our future is in good hands.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/zachary-hammond-police-killing_55c0e...


    RM,

    I wish I could agree with you, but what I see is the poor and middle-class flailing around blindly without direction.  We're being distracted by MTV, BET, and ESPN, misinformed by the network news, and being divided and demonized one faction at a time. On the other hand, the 1%ers are being organized into one solid front by people like the Koch brothers and organizations like ALEC and Bilderberg. Citizens United has made it possible for them to literally buy our politicians, and we are now well on our way to living in a corporate feudalist society:
    .
    Princeton Study: U.S.  Is No Longer A Democracy, It's Become An Oligarchy
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer...

    ​.
    We need one non-partisan organization, "American Workers For Justice." The organization should have one committee, and that committee should be comprised of one representative from every major working class interest group in America, and the organization's primary mission should be to organize and educate the working class, and to address all issues of working class injustice.  In short, the working class should be organize to do what our congress is failing to do. While we can't legislate, we can get the right people into congress who can.  
    .
    It's simply a matter of reorganizing society in the proper way.  The social manipulators have us organized as a myriad of easily manipulated special interest groups with competing interests.  We need to reorganize ourselves into a group with just one major interest - justice for the working class.


    Eric,

    A single organization would be a disaster. First the GOP would smear the leadership and thus tarnish the different branches. Having multiple groups attacking different problems makes the smaller organizations flexible. They can change strategy quickly rather than waiting for approval from above.

    Voter suppression in Texas was just dealt a blow by a Federal Court. A similar case is in the courts in North Carolina and the legislature buckled. Specialized voter suppression groups are winning. Women's rights groups are honing in on attacks on Planned Parenthood. They are gearing up to run challengers to those in the GOP voting to end funding for Planned Parenthood. The GOP will pay a price. Fast food worker groups were at the forefront of raising the minimum wage. The multi-pronged multi-organizational strategy is working. 

    The protests in Ferguson, as violent as they were, resulted in direct changes in the way the judicial system used the police as a mechanism for obtaining revenue through abusive ticketing and jail threats against black citizens. The abusive practices were changed. People recognize the judicial system is rigged. BLM reinforces that idea.

    A single umbrella organization with authority to direct local action would impede progress already being made. Smaller organizations run lean an mean. Think of the small singl-issue groups as Revolutionary War patriots hiding in the woods firing on British troops (GOP) marching in formation. The actions of the GOP are predictable. Flexibility is what the small organizations bring to the battle.

    The model for winning is already in place.


    RM,

    What factionalism brings to ANY endeavor is infighting, fiefdom building, disorganization, and chaos.  That's why we create nations, so we can organize our efforts. The primary problem with your argument is you're trying to argue against the advantages of an organized effort, and in support of undisciplined chaos.Such an argument is dead on arrival. Imagine what it would be like if we ran our military in that manner. We saw the disadvantages of that approach during the Netroots conference.  We not only made damn fools of ourselves, and BLM undoubtedly antagonized hundreds of thousands of people who they should have been trying to draw as allies, but we missed a prime opportunity to educate America.  it was a public relations disaster, and I'm sure we're going to see much more of that kind of stupidity as the endless supply of self-serving individuals seize the opportunity to give their 10 minutes of fame priority over the best interest of the people. 


    Here is where we disagree. Factionalism can effect change. Despite the ire of fellow pastors, some white Progressives,mand a United States President MLK pushed on. BLM made themselves known. Both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders immediately changed the tone of how the addressed the rigged judicial system beginning with police abuse. BLM had an effect. The Ferguson protests had an effect in halting the way the judicial system was using the black community as an ATM. 

    Like the British of old, the tactics used by the Republicans are predictable. They will go overboard and pass punitive legislation. The laws crumble when faced with a legal challenge. They will hand a gullible media video snippets which MSM reports as fact. When the unedited videos are obtained, the Conservatives are shown to be liars. We saw this with Shirley Sherrod and ACORN. They have gone to the same playbook with Planned Parenthood. The Republican and their billionaire financiers are predictable. 

    In the 2016 Presidential election, the Democrats will start off with about 240 electoral votes in their pocket. The country is educated enough to give a large chunk of electoral votes to the Democrats because they know the Republicans are crazy. Brownbeck put Kansas into debt. Scott Walker is destroying Wisconsin's economy and wrecking its university system. Bobby Jindal is trashing Louisian's economy. Chris Christie gets booed at public appearances in New Jersey. The public is educated.

    The Republicans make a big push on voter suppression and gerrymandering because they can't win a fair election in many locales.

    Progressives ideas of winning. BlackLivesMatter did no long term harm. They are just a movement of young people demanding a place on the stage. They are willing to put themselves on the front lines to have a voice. They have something important to say.

    If you think about the Confederate flag controversy in South Carolina, the respectable blacks were waiting for Massa to come to his/her senses and take down the flag. A bold young woman learned mountain climbing techniques and in a matter of weeks was able to scale the pole holding the flag and take the flag down. She quoted Scripture on the way down. Yes, she was arrested, but she sent a message. The older black folks looked like sheep compared to the fire in the young woman. Governor Haley had no choice but to give in because she realized that young people were no longer going to tolerate Confederate crap being forced in the faces. The younger generation is going to be more confrontational with our enemies the Republicans and corporatists. We saw this confrontation in the risks the fast food workers took in work stoppages.

    We see the confrontation in the people in Baltimore dedicated to recording police arrests. They know that the Baltimore PD clings to the idea that the force will only uphold the law if the police can rough up some suspects. The activists are not deterred. At the end of they day the Baltimore PD will come under federal control for refusing to uphold the law and for the number of abuse cases that the city has paid out. Law and order will be restored in Baltimore, but it will happen without agreeing that a severed spine occurring while in place custody is just another day in the city.

    Confrontation is good. Factions are good. The public sided with those willing to confront the power. The public is shifting to BLM's side regarding police abuse. Sanders, Clinton, and O'Malley are taking up BLM's argument.

    Today is the 50th anniversary of signing the Voting Rights Act. Tonight we are going to see 10 members of the Republican clown car tell us why voting rights are bad, why a living wage is bad, why war with Iran is good, why health care is bad, why we need a 2000-mile fence paid for by Mexico, and why women cannot decide what happens to their bodies. Even the Libertarian Rand Paul wants to control women's bodies and defund Planned Parenthood's role in providing health care to women.

    The factions are going to have the winning arguments.

    Edit to add:

    I have to apologize for not naming the hero who risked health and freedom to remove the Confederate flag. Her name is Bree Newsome. We should remember our heroes. We remember Rosa Parks, who could have been beaten. We should remember Bree Newsome who could have fallen or been abused during arrest.


    Here is a poll that suggests BLM pesents a winning argument and is changing the minds of whites regarding equality in the United States.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/poll-black-lives-matter-activists_55...


    It should also be noted that the unpatriotic, idiotic Republicans are so focused on video snippets of Planned Parenthood and their fervor to control women's bodies that they put the country's security at risk by delaying action on a cybersecurity bill. The Chinese hackers love the Republican Party. 

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/us/politics/cybersecurity-bill-is-late...

    The Republicans and their billionaire supporters are taking themselves down.


    RM, you should know by now that the so called cybersecurity bill has little to do with or would stop the alleged Chinese hackers as was explained in the NYT article. This nasty bill is mostly about easing US government spying on Amerikans and protecting US corporations.

    You should also know that the same billionaire class you mention supports Democrats, Gates, Buffet and even Trump are some examples and many others share their wealth with D's and R's  to hedge their bets.


    I'll take some snooping relief.

    The essential problem that you facing is that given the overt actions of the GOP, it makes the Democrats the best choice for me. Other then griping, you offer no alternative. Feel free to stay home. I'll work to get rid of Republicans. Contact me when you have a viable solution. 

    Your solution Is ____________________.


    Eric,

    BLM is not Bernie Sanders only problem in the black community. Rank and file voters view him as not getting the memo. Hillary had to climb out of the fiasco she and Bill created with the black community in 2008. She has done a good job of that and has most of the black community behind her for 2016.

    Sanders has changed the tone of his outreach to the black community. He now faces another test. He is headed to Liberty University to deliver a mandatory attendance speech, just like the on tends just gave. Will he tell the audience that black lives matter, or will he only try to reach out to pick up some white Conservative votes? If he goes for the white Conservatives, he feeds into the BLM meme that Sanders doesn't get it. Remember, Hillary realizes that the Democrats have a virtual lock on 240 electoral votes, and that she cannot win without majority minority support. Hillary also has the majority of Democratic women behind her.

    Sanders faces a problem. If Hillary has black voters and women voters in her pocket, why is the message that the black community wanting their issues addressed is in need of education. Don't white women have to be educated as well? Why pick on BLM without attacking the National Organization of Women (NOW)? A message that political education is lacking in the black community, but things are OK with white women voters is a horrible theme for Sanders.

    The bottom line is that Sanders is going to have to set his campaign message to appeal to specific audiences. If he crafts a one-size fits all campaign, he will lose. That is the education Sanders needs to gain to win election in the United States of America. 

    The other unspoken problem is that the early Sanders campaign has electability doubts like those of the early Obama campaign, but on steroids. Can a man labeled a Socialist win election in the United States? Winning in mainly white states like Iowa or New Hampshire will not protect Sanders from getting clobbered when the Primaries move to states with a more diverse population. If Sanders supporters state openly that those black voters who are not voting for Sanders need to be educated, kiss the Sanders campaign goodbye. If Sanders can't craft an inclusive message, that is his problem and indicates that he cannot communicate to a diverse audience. Heck, Obama had to communicate to black voters that he could get elected. Obama had to convince Latinos to vote for him. What makes Sanders different than Obama in making outreach?

    The "population needs to be educated" theme is a cover for a campaign that doesn't understand what the differing communities want to hear. Sanders has to educate himself on how to craft his message so that the positive impact of his policies on individual lives can be understood.

    The proposal that the black population needs to be educated is offensive and a losing strategy. BLM just called Sanders out. Hopefully he got the message. We will see how he performs at Liberty University.


    The reason that I made a harsher argument is because there is another Sanders supporter suggesting that Sanders has a gender gap because of the bias of women. Sanders supporters cannot attack voters by calling them in need of education or gender-biased. A race-bias charge was brought against Obama supporters. The result was overwhelming black support for Obama. Talking condescendingly about educating blacks or gender bias in women will result in more support from those groups for Hillary Clinton.

    The one requiring education is Bernie Sanders. He has to craft his message for different audiences. Their are some things blacks, women, union workers, students, Latinos, etc want to hear. He has to make clear that he understands different concerns. Sanders can run on a single "universal" message. Sanders can also lose groups that he needs.


    RM,

    You've made my point much more eloquently than I ever could have. You've spent several paragraphs in two posts discussing politics, political candidates, and the challenges involved in satisfying the fractious nature of various political factions.  I'm discussing justice for the American working class. There's a difference, but the American people (as a whole) are going to have to RE-EDUCATE themselves to see it.   


    Eric

    The factions are the working class. The factions are already educated. The reason that the Republicans spend so much time trying to suppress votes is that they know that they cannot win an election with a level playing field. The factions have pushed back by filing cases that wind up overturning harsh voter suppression laws. The factions fight back by risking their jobs to get a higher minimum wage for everyone. Women are helping Planned Parenthood fight back against an attack by Christianist misogynists. The Confederate flag was forced down by pressure brought by a faction. 

    The factions don't need re-education, they have already joined the battle. The factions will continue the battle even if neither Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders get elected. The factions are committed. For every issue that you are concerned about effecting the working class, there is a faction conducting a battle. The big all encompassing battle that you want is already being fought. A top-heavy single organization seeking justice for the working class would be mired in red tape. The factions are quick and nimble.

    I don't see how you are missing the fact that people are tackling working class issues and winning. BLM addressing a rigged law enforcement and judicial system is a vital part of fighting for justice for the poor and the working class. Rigged police enforcement and judiciary system focus their wrath on the poor and working class.

    BLM actually proves my point about the importance of factions. Sanders operated under the fantasy that addressing economics would address everything else. The fallacy is that the system is racially biased as well as economically biased. Wealth does not protect blacks from biased law enforcement. I would bet that you know economically secure black people who have had racially-charged interactions with the police. Ta-Nehisi Coates tells the story of the murder of Prince Jones by police. Prince Jones was the private-school educated son of a black female radiologist murdered in a case of mistaken identity by an undercover police officer. The officer was not in uniform and tracked Prince Jones in a case of mistaken identity. Prince Jones was killed by the officer. When the officer pulled a gun, Prince Jones tried to get away. Jones was murdered. There was no conviction. Race trumps economics. BLM forces Sanders to address the issue.

    Eric, the justice you want is already being addressed. The American people need no re-education. The re-education is needed for Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Martin O'Malley. The fractious nature of politics is the only way that everyone in the working class gains justice. 

     

     


    Eric, tell me how your single organization for justice for the working class would have dealt with the Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Walter Scott, or Sam DuBose situation. 


    Let's say the single group decides that the best way to deal with these cases is to deal with economics. What happens when there is disagreement. Is a vote taken and those who want to focus on racial bias told to it down and be quiet because obviously attacking the greed of corporations will address the issue?

    Who casts the deciding vote on what is going to happen? Is this going to be a leaderless mess? How are elections held?


    The other reason a top heavy group would be a disaster is shown by South Carolina. There were groups attacking the Confederate flag. They were successful. While that was going on, other groups were attacking voter suppression, closing of HBCUs,, and healthcare issue. The ability of various factions to attack multiple issues is what keeps the corporatists off guard. 

    There will always be friction MLK knew the Voting Rights Act was important. Fannie Lou Hamer knew that getting representation in Mississippi was important. LBJ told MLK that if Hamer and the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party got seated, he would lose votes needed for the Voting Rights Act. A top heavy, single organization would have stalled. King backed off criticism of not seating all of Hamer's delegate. We got the Voting Rights Act.

    The existence of factions gave King power he would not have otherwise had. LBJ knew that he had to give in on one of the black voting issues before him. The VRA won out 50 years ago. A single organization may have held fast and could have resulted in neither issue being deal with by Congress. Since only one group would have represented both the VRA and the black Mississippi Democrats, there was no problem with denying the wishes of one group. With King and Hamer operating separately, it would have been politically dis steroid for LBJ if both pleas were rejected.

    I think history and the reality of politics makes a one stop organization for workers issues downright disastrous.


    You and I never see eye to eye Eric, but I just read an article about your grandson Eric in our local newspaper... who knew he attended the same school my two youngest attended. The oldest attended ODea. Anyway, Eric's grandson is an amazing basketball player and there was an article in the paper about him today.

    http://pugetsoundblogs.com/kitsap-preps/2015/08/07/south-kitsaps-wattree...

    This is very awesome.. one of my children attends Eastern.  Congratulations to your namesake.


    Congratulations on your grandson's accomplishment Eric


    Even church leaders are noting the impact of BLM

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-the-blacklivesmatter-movement-ch...


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