Scared police are bad police: why aren't the police more brave?

    Background: watch the Sean Groubert video for insight into the Wilson/Brown confrontation. [Groubert is the officer who shot the guy reaching into his van for his licence/registration.]  In Groubert, you see it in front of your eyes: action driven by fear. (And maybe some institutionalized racism as well, but others have covered that so I won’t go into it here.)

    The practical problem here is that police forces all over the country have put procedures in place that legitimize acting out of fear. It’s worth taking a good, long moment to think about this, because it’s a real departure from the way police forces used to do things.

    My Dad, a long-retired RCMP officer who never discharged his sidearm in more than 30 years of service, feels that as Kevlar vests and SWAT teams became the norm, somehow plain old bravery and using your smarts to stay safe in a conflict, went out of style. The idea that an officer would talk about “having” to use his weapon because he was afraid, just boggles my Dad’s mind. And yet, that’s what Darren Wilson told his colleagues, mentioned several times in his testimony, that he “had to shoot somebody.”

    Whether Wilson is telling the truth or not, I do think he’s got it all fixed in his head that because he was afraid of Michael Brown, he was doing the right thing in getting out of his giant Tahoe, running after Brown, and shooting him to death. Which is absolutely nutty if you think about it at all. There had already been a weapons discharge during the incident with Brown, Wilson had no backup immediately available to him, Wilson had already taken a couple of hits to the face and was feeling a little woozy if he’s to be believed. Not a good circumstance in which to initiate a pursuit on foot. What would have been wrong with driving back to the precinct, reporting the assault, and putting out a warrant for Brown’s arrest? Nothing. And yet, because of his “fear,” Wilson felt that the right thing to do was to leave the vehicle and continue to pursue, alone, a guy who had already, in his own words,  beaten him in his car. And clearly many others felt the same way as Wilson, because this obviously illogical move has garnered almost no notice, let alone criticism.

    Somehow or other, it has become fashionable for police officers to hate and fear their low-life constituents; there’s a lot of politics and racism driving that, like I said. And it’s a problem, because feeling that it’s legitimate to hate their constituents allows officers to feel justified in provoking confrontations. And as soon as one of those confrontations starts to go sideways, the feeling that it’s legitimate to be afraid pops in there. Finally, once the fear is allowed in, the procedural legitimacy of using one’s weapon to resolve the fear allows the officer to end the conflict in a violent way instead of in a peaceful one.

    I’m probably not explaining this very well, but basically I think there are three things in play, and all three contribute to these cop shootings:

    1. Racism drives the hatred, which leads to a not-cool-headed, confrontational style.
    2. Fear triggers officers to act in ways that are not brave.
    3. Procedure that says it’s ok to act out of fear provides the justification for violence.

    The procedural legitimization of acting out of fear is what hasn’t been covered.

    It is just so obvious that angry, scared police officers should not be taking out their weapons and using them. But for some reason it’s widely held that that’s exactly what they should do.

     

    Erica

    Comments

    If you or anyone else is so brave, get out there on the front line.

    Do it every day and see how it affects your thinking, to know very dangerous people are seeking to cause harm to the public and to you; the policeman stands up to defend you from dangerous thugs. 

    It takes a special person to put their life at risk to save an ungrateful public who'll  stand by while victims are attacked because the lemmings cower.       

    A thug who'll attack a police officer wouldn't think twice about a home invasion or clubbing you Mr and Mrs John Q Public over the head, for your watch,purse or wallet,

    I knew a person who was knocked out from behind, robbed and was paralyzed the rest of their life. Do you think the thug cared ? Do you think a thug who would assault an officer cares?  

    Why would a thug if he thought he could get away with it, not rape when they get real brazen and bold? 

    Telling the officer "Let him go and get a warrant", might be too late for the thug's next victim.


    It's a troubling question. Erica ,with her family background in enforcement treated it intelligently. You for your part wrote as if  convinced you have the answer. And maybe you do.

    Or maybe Erica does.

    On this and on many of the other issues debated here your 'two guns blazing' approach

     If you are so  brave  , get out there on the front line

    makes it less rather than more likely that you and the person with whom you're arguing can produce a useful conclusion, perhaps even one that neither of you could have reached independently.

    On the issue itself , Wilson told the Grand Jury that he began shooting at Brown because he felt that Brown should be stopped because he might attack other citizens.

     Not a stupid position.

    And one may or may not be true. What could also be true is that Wilson was furious with Brown for attacking him and wanted to punish him for that. And that Wilson believed -or was coached to say-that a true answer was against his interests so he was lying.

    It would have been useful if the prosecutor had pressed him on that point. Perhaps even useful for Wilson who may be lying not just to us , but worse, to himself.

     

     

     

     


    There does not appear to be any time to respond to any command when armed police arrive and death.

    Here is the video of the killing of John Crawford carrying a toy gun in a Walmart in Ohio

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/25/ohio-wal-ma...

    Not very much time to respond

    Here is the video of the killing of twelve year old Tamar Rice in Cleveland, Ohio

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-cleveland-cop-shoot-12-y...

    Death within seconds. No real time to respond to commands.

    The bottom line is that police tactics have to change. The current practice is unacceptable. Just as Stop and Frisk was unacceptable. These killings are unacceptable.


    It is very interesting that when White people riot, the police responses are very different.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/kohn-ferguson-protests/


    This nation has brought this upon themselves, 

    Especially after Sandy Hook; I have observed the hysteria generated by gun control advocates looking for every opportunity to bash and malign guns. 

    Guns are Bad;  Guns are bad; Guns are bad.

    Those cops didn't know it was a toy. Every night the same message,  Guns are bad repeated over and over again 

    All  they knew was someone was waving a gun.

    Should the cops take a bullet  to satisfy citizens concerns?

    Then you take that job.  

    Societies hysteria has led to these unfortunate occurrences

    Zero tolerance for guns and for those who wave them, was the message sent by the President and his supporters, and the police heard the message loud and clear, now reap what YOU' VE sown.

    If the child had been educated he'd have known you don't wave a gun around; toy or real. 


    Ohio is open carry


    If thats the creds needed to understand law enforcement, than I've got plenty. 

    I grow tired of the hatred and bashing of police officers.

    I fear the day when good is bad and bad is good.

    Instead of Police, we can have gang lords calling the shots. 


    Your fatigue is unimportant. Police tactics have to change. The legal system is racially biased whether you choose to believe or not.

    I gave a link above that contrasts the difference between responses to White rioters and Black rioters. I'll repeat it for you here.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/kohn-ferguson-protests/

    Equal justice under the law.


    Your fatigue is unimportant.

    Just as the majority of the nation feels about your concerns? 

     


    While you stand on the sidelines yelling" Get off my lawn", police tactics will change. It took years of protest to change Stop and Frisk, but change came. There have been marches in at least 170 cities since the Darren Wilson verdict. Militarization of police departments is going to be under review. A new generation is energized. I'm pumped. Since you're tired, go take a nap. Your status quo will be a thing of the past when you wake up.


    Your status quo will be a thing of the past when you wake up.

    Reply at bottom of page 


    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Attributed to M. Mead,

    People have always been dragged kicking and screaming into the future. Their children view those changes as the norm and wouldn't change it back if they could. But they forget how those changes came about and give no credit to the unions, feminists, activists etc that brought about those changes. And they, like their predecessors, will resist any change and have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.


    It's likely Wilson would have gunned down a (deranged, mentally ill, drugged up) unarmed white guy just as fast as he did Brown. God help St. Louis County, if he is an example of the professionalism of their police force. Cops often seem to come from the intellectual cellar of a high school class, Wilson fits the standard.

    In his hotheaded 'stand your ground' response Wilson risked having his gun taken from him the moment he displayed it with a "huge and strong" suspect next to him.

    He further put the public and himself at risk by leaving the protection and mobility of his vehicle with gun in hand, a weapon which might have fallen into the hands of Brown.

    There is no question Wilson's actions are a case study in how not to handle such a confrontation. Backup was necessary and on the way.

    Wilson and the St. Louis County Sheriff's Department which backed him have done a disservice to every competent cop out there trying to 'keep the peace'.  These good cops must now face increased distrust in neighborhoods across the nation. The rioters in Ferguson who burned and looted have reinforced the false idea that Wilson is a hero, and actions like his are called for to keep the peace, especially in Black neighborhoods.

    The only winners are our largely useless, often incendiary, ever opinionating, arguing and dividing, never examining issues in depth, rarely educating, MSM and 24/7 TV News corporations.


    NCD, thank you for reaffirming my point that there was no good reason for Wilson to leave his vehicle. If Wilson's story is true, Brown had already demonstrated that he would be difficult to subdue without force, and that with only one officer, the outcome could be pretty unpredictable.

    Just dumb. And that any "police procedure" justifies it is inexcusable.


    Common Core-like Standards for police are needed. We have them for students, for doctors, for emergency techs, for hospitals....but no such thing for cops. Like "if a unarmed big guy hits you, you call for back-up and wait, you don't take your weapon, leave your car, and pursue unless suspect threatens or attacks another person". Or, if a little kid in a park displays what appears to be a gun, you do not call out drop it 3 times and then gun him down a second later....

    If you check the web, CALEA, The Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies formed in 1979 and which says it is the "Gold Standard for Public Safety" it specifically rules out any "how you do it" in police work:

    Seeking to establish the best professional practices, the standards prescribe “what” agencies should be doing, but not “how” they should be doing it. That decision is left up to the individual agency and its Chief Executive Officer.

    CALEA has pabulum like "prevent crime" and "boost staff and citizen confidence in the agency".

    Hospital accreditation organizations insist hospitals have written policy on "how you do it", students are rammed into testing systems as "how to do it", the military has manuals and degrees, rules of engagement for "how you do it". I think having national basic response standards on basic scenarios relating to deadly force, would help dumb cops know what to do, and would go a long way to preventing racist cop behavior in neighborhoods all over the nation.


    While a clear, specific regulation might not prevent dumb or racist behavior, it would make prosecution more likely. The probability of that could go a long way toward police officers thinking twice. If they continue to be reassured that they will be exonerated regardless, the "rules" will never matter.


    One thing that might help is to make it a crime for police to stop people from filming them and deleting video recorded.


    True but if the first response of the St. Louis Police Dept. was

    Dept Chief: "Officer Wilson appears to have violated our standard practices in pursuing Brown, he is being put on administrative leave pending an departmental investigation of his conduct, which could lead to his dismissal from the force. Common Core practice is not to pursue an unarmed potentially dangerous suspect on foot and alone, but to wait for back-up. The reasons for this are clear.....Wilson's actions led to a scuffle for the gun, and the death of the suspect."

    A lot of verbiage and bullshit on the MSM airwaves would have been pre-empted, and perhaps the community unrest less angry and violent.
     


    There are scores of "ifs" that could have prevented this tragedy. Considering yours, that would certainly have helped in the immediate aftermath. But what was demanded, though not ultimately received, was justice in a court of law. Violating Common Core practices would not have achieved that.


    Wilson might have been convicted of negligent homicide for violating normal police practices.

    Of course, cops would never stand for not being able to shoot anybody anywhere for any sudden impulse they harbor, or "threat" they can conjure up.


    At age 22, Senator Corey Booker wrote hoe the police viewed him as he walked down the street. Blacks do not expect Officer Friendly to show up. The police force is often viewed as an occupying army.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/11/26/at-22-cory...

    This mistrust creates a dilemma, do you call police when a family member has mental issues and cannot be controlled? Will your relative die as a result? Does a victim of domestic abuse call the police? Could the abuser die as a result?


    Is this the coming Status quo?

     

     


    It is in your warped world

    Hey there's a bubonic plague outbreak. Better grab your guns for the apocalypse.

    Watch out your shadow is sneaking up on you, better shoot.

     


    Take your head out ....of the sand 

    I don't know what you are smoking;  but many law enforcement agencies understand the threat these gangs pose to communities. How these gangs have and will continue to kill hundreds of innocent people and for recognition within the gang;  would kill an officer of the law, if given the chance.

    The only thing between saving a community, from the ravages of drug addiction spread by the gangs; is the police officer.who is wary of the threats against authority. Something you are always questioning.  

    Someone earlier wrote about the intelligence level being very low in the ranks of the police officers.

    People should question the intelligence level of the critics of the police.

    Who with any brains would want to risk their lives protecting society from the threat, these violent gangs pose? 

    In case you haven't noticed, the gangs are spreading and their grip on communities are destroying families

    The New Heroin Epidemic - The Atlantic 

    A fool doesn't discern serious matters and like the unintelligent court jester, who cant give sound advice, the jester can only mock.


    You stay in a perpetual mode of fear. There have always been gangs. There were machine gun murders by the Mafia in the 20s. Society survived. In fact legalizing ethanol made the violence decrease. It may be that a more rational approach to drugs will decrease violence now.

    The presence of Gangs does not mean that the Black citizens of Ferguson and other cities have to have the police force as an occupying army. Gangs do not justify the death of a twelve year old.

    I understand your repeated need for insults to hide the ridiculous nature f your argument. In both Ohio shootings, death occurred within seconds. There was little time to comply with any supposed command. There is more than one police car in most cities. Techniques to contain and await backup might be a better technique. Altered tactics need exploration.

    Your overwhelming fear blinds you to considering other options.

    In the case of Darren Wilson, law enforcement experts suggest their were less lethal options. To argue that people want police officers put in danger is absurd. It is a figment of your warped imagination. We want police to be safe. We also don't want carrying toy guns to be a death penalty. We don't want police viewed as an enemy force feared by law-abiding citizens.

    Here is the link on other options available to Darren Wilson. We need better trained law enforcement 

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/us/ferguson-experts-weigh-darren-wilso...


    Happy Thanksgiving 

    Time to celebrate 

    Here is a story from Ferguson about a bakery damaged during the protests. The owner has received $200K in support and is able to prepare baked goods for Thanksgiiving. 

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/cash-pours-fix-bakery-damaged-ferguson-riots/st...

    A local restaurant where I live spent yesterday preparing meals for the homeless.

    There is always hope

    Enjoy the day

     


    Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, rmrd. For all the heartache, there are always beacons of light to steer us to a better day.


    Thanks


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