Michael Maiello's picture

    Would You vote for Ted Cruz to Keep Sean Penn out of the White House?

    Slate has run with a thought experiment that serves as a kind of counter to calls by people like President Obama for Republicans to repudiate their own nominee, for the good of the country.  The idea here is that if populist Democrats had somehow handed the nomination to somebody like Sean Penn, people left of center would not take kindly to being told to vote for Ted Cruz in the name of apple pie and American values.

    To me the analogy is flawed because Ted Cruz is easily as unreasonable a choice for President as Donald Trump is, and Cruz came in second which means that the Republican primaries went from 20 people down to two who are totally unfit for the White House.  On the Twitter, Ross Douthat suggested Rick Santorum as the Republican thought experiment candidate but, again, is Santorum any more acceptable than Trump?  Maybe John Kasich should be the guy or even Mitt Romney. People who don't want those two to be President at least don't believe that the idea of a President Kasich or President Romney is somehow an existential threat to democracy.  Would you vote for one of them if the alternative would be to keep Sean Penn out of office?

    At that point, I'd probably duck the question and vote for a third party candidate, but if you take that off the table it does become an interesting question.  I'd say it really depends on who the Republican nominee is. Put another way, yes, I'd vote for Penn over a far right Republican nominee, particularly if that nominee is a religious conservative or seems racist, but I'd vote for a moderate Republican over Penn, I guess I could say that much.

    So the funny thing from the left point of view is that we've nominated a moderate and Trump isn't event a good conservative, so what's the problem?  Well, the problem is that Republicans don't consider Clinton a moderate. They never considered Obama a moderate either.  They think we're all Sean Penn.  That's the problem.



    The MSM will not call Donald Trump a racist. He attacks the parents of a fallen Muslim soldier, calls Black Lives Matter a terrorist group, and wants a ban on Muslims coming to the United States We have the real life thought experiment facing us. Trump is a bigot. Trump is stupid. The Republican Party chose Trump. Pence does not believe in evolution, climate change or that cigarettes are a health risk. The MSM can chase Benghazi stories, but they need thought experiments for Trump. Ryan, McConnell, McCain, and the bulk of the GOP support a racist. That is not a reality show or a thought experiment, that is reality. The country rejected Joe McCarty and Barry Goldwater. The country has to reject Donald Trump.

    It is interesting, isn't it?  They nominate Trump and the press response is, "but what if you did?"

    The thought experiment is pretty ridiculous. Democrats would never nominate Sean Penn or Kanye West. Democrats just rejected a sane far left socialist we just wouldn't go for crazy. But if they want to play this game, I'll quite easily vote for a moderate republican over Penn or a sane conservative like Romney, or even a sane far right conservative like Kasich over a narcissistic idiot like Kanye.

    Kasich over Kanye?  Kasich has like, zero beats.

    Republicans are much more likely to elect Ted Nugent than Democrats are of electing Kanye West.

    Yeah. The shoe is not on the other foot for a reason.

    Gee, dude, no longer into insane thought experiments? What'll we do instead? Me I'm voting Selena Gomez - screw Justin Bieber and he's a Canuck anyway.

    Though 2nd thought, maybe Penn would help ourrelationship with Mexico. 


    Fast Times at USA. To be followed by Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure

    Ok, Ajamu Baraka cleared it for me - I'm going Green. USA, USA, USA...

    ETA scary who she considered - Nina Turner, ex-Black Panther head, etc. Finger on the pulse of irrelevance.


    Justin Beiber is acanuck?  That explains his weird contributions to Dagblog!

    Selena and I are just good friends. Really good friends. And we resent you calling our contributions weird.

    Frankly I would take Sean Penn over all of them.. hahahahah

    I do believe that Kasich would not destroy America as we know it.

    And yes, Cruz would be as disastrous as a Trump; probably more so.

    Sean Penn I'd ;probably go for.

    A tougher choice would be Cruise or Cruz.

    I'd probably vote for zombie FDR.  Hell, even zombie Eisenhower.

    The real world question is how many people will vote for an unstable narcissist like Trump?

    Only the unstable narcissists, so how many could there...

    Let’s posit a Donald Trump of the left...

    Ah positing, what a marvelous, magical device. A sweet little posit can be so blissfully disconnected from reality while purporting to tell us something about reality.

    "It’s not difficult to envision Democrats supporting an absurd candidate out of inane partisanship or in hopes (even gossamer hopes) of a precious November win," writes Seth Stevenson.

    Perhaps I lack Stevenson's imagination, but I find it impossible to envision today's Democratic Party nominating a candidate as absurd and dangerous as Donald Trump. Therefore, I find it impossible to imagine Democrats caught on the horns of this fabricated dilemma.

    For a more realistic thought experiment, Stevenson should have posited four decades of Democrats pandering to bigotry and fear before finally, inevitably reaping what they sowed with a racist, authoritarian demagogue like Trump. That I can imagine. I just can't imagine being a member of that party.

    Posit that both the Democrats and Republicans separately nominated Donald Trump to represent them in the same election and that he gets in a Twitter war with himself and calls himself "Little Donny." THEN would you vote for Jill Stein?  Is that what it will take? Sad!

    Thank a lot, asshat. I'll be having nightmares all week now.

    So I guess all that talk about TOS violations is just so much wind when it comes from an admin?


    In all fairness, I'm an asshat.

    TOS violation for ad hom attack

    Oh you guys - get an assroom.

    I don't do yoga.

    That's "Asana", not "Assana". Think Julian Assange right now, though I wasn't expecting you'd take up a room at an embassy. Maybe the "Y" or the Asstoria.

    You let Cornell West do it.

    You, sir, are no Cornel West.

    Posit all you want, fella.  It makes about as much sense as pretending the Democrats are the same as the Republicans.  They're nowhere near the same in any way, shape, or form.

    We don't toy with the notion that celebrity or anger or activism qualifies anyone for the highest job in the land.  We may be disappointing fuddie-duddies but we're not cruel and we're not nuts.

    Let's be a bit more posit-ive, folks - we *are* the grownups in the house.

    Speak for yourself on those grownup claims, might start a spam war but what the hell. Meanwhile, are folks skipping past the idea behind thought experiments just to react against the Republicans and Trump? I see thought experiments like this as something like Greek theater which, I read somewhere sometime long ago, was intended to present the audience with a chance to experience something emotionally and learn from it without the necessity of actually living through the experience.  

    In the pre-internet heyday of classifieds, I once saw personal ad with "positron seeks electron for self-annihilation". Let's say a short-term wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am romance was in the offing - in such a case they wouldn't actually live through the experience. Perhaps not all Greek Theater is the same - some it seems is just falling on your sword. And then there's Kabuki that purports to be Greek - a mismatch of culture like the curious "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" starring 2 respective rock stars.

    [...] a chance to experience something emotionally and learn from it without the necessity of actually living through the experience. 

    Here ya go.  I don't see even a remote possibility that what's happening around and due to Trump will ever be duplicated by Democrats.  Perhaps because, if for no other reason, we're learning while we suffer through the experience.

    The difference is that Democrats realize that everybody is screwed. So blacks, whites, Latinos, etc.generally support people outside of their tribes. Republicans feel that whites have been left behind. In order for ethnic minorities to survive in the GOP, they have to first address the grievances of white Republicans. When ethnic minorities appear at GOP functions, they have to make sure that they point out the moral failures of their ethnic minority. I don't know how you can convince white Republicans to work with ethnic minorities who will not agree to put conditions in minority communities in a framework that focuses on immorality rather than structural impediments.

    Sheriff David Clarke, Allen West, Ben Carson, Stacey Dash, etc all began their message with the moral failures of blacks. Republicans don't want to hear any other message. Paul Ryan was lifted up as the guy who reached out to the black community. We now know that Ryan is OK supporting a racist admired by David Duke. The GOP is incapable of healing the racial divide.

    I installed the Pokemon Go campaign 2016 edition a few days ago - I find virtual Trumps to freeze in every corner of the city. Scary that mere mortals don't notice them right in their midst. Collection stations everywhere too - a lot of work to be done.

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