MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
By Kevin Drum @ Jabberwocking.com, July 3
On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right.
This wasn't meant to be a rigorous scholarly analysis. And you can argue about margins of error, question wording, choice of topics, and so forth. Still, the gaps are too big and the trend too consistent to ignore the obvious conclusion that over the past two decades Democrats have moved left far more than Republicans have moved right: [....]
I've made this point many times before, and I want to make it again more loudly and more plainly today. It is not conservatives who have turned American politics into a culture war battle. It is liberals. And this shouldn't come as a surprise: Almost by definition, liberals are the ones pushing for change while conservatives are merely responding to whatever liberals do. More specifically, progressives have been bragging publicly about pushing the Democratic Party leftward since at least 2004—and they've succeeded.
Now, I'm personally happy about most of this. But that doesn't blind me to the fact that "personally happy" means nothing in politics. What matters is what the median voter feels, and Democrats have been moving further and further away from the median voter for years: [....]
Comments
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 11:16am
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 11:24am
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 11:30am
A Middle Class Rebellion Against Progressives Is Gaining Steam | Opinion
By JOEL KOTKIN , PRESIDENTIAL FELLOW IN URBAN FUTURES AT CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY
@ Newsweek.com, 6/3/21 AT 5:43 PM EDT
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 11:42am
I would personally say that demographic change has resulted in a scramble for progressives to create narratives for all sorts of new populations. That's how you get things like critical race theory.
The writer hits home when he says that by definition, the left wants to change things and the right doesn't. That means that the left might happen on some truly warped and deranged ideas while also happening upon ideas with a lasting positive impact. Look at how the right wing Eurasianists in Russia embraced many of the old institutions of the Soviet Union and sought to recreate them.
by Orion on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 2:09pm
Euthanasianists claiming their own - what %?
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 2:58pm
Eurasianists, not Euthanasianists. LOL.
by Orion on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 4:09pm
"What do you think about euthanasia?"
"Feed 'em rice."
ba-da-dump
"We've always been at war with Uranusia... I think" - from early drafts of 1984
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 4:38pm
Urine Asia.
by Orion on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 4:41pm
Martin Luther King Jr preached a message of universal love.
Democrats still lost the South after passage of the Civil Rights bills.
Drum's observation is no big surprise.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/10/2021 - 9:44pm
I wonder what The Rev.would do with today's changes in black urban sub-culture, though, for example, Kareem here, who shot his acquaintance of 15 years and paralyzed him from the waist down, after they both attended a "Soul Food Sunday anti-violence event"
Abolish the jail he is being held in and send in the social workers? Shower him with more love and "anti-violence"? Some black people, with a high incidence of them male, are now as bad as bad cops, or worse. Denial is not a river in Egypt. Cops (who are not all white) do use profiling and a lot of blacks are hurting other blacks. Don't the victims get any civil rights, the rights to life and limb?
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 8:50am
Your response has nothing to do with the fact that using peaceful protest did not prevent Democrats from losing the Southern vote after the Civil Rights bills were signed.
Edit to add:
Regarding the police
It was Trump supporters who attacked police on January 6th
It is Republicans who refused to award medals to police after the Capitol attack
It is Republicans who are reluctant to increase funding for police.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 10:48am
She's talking about the recent uptick in murders. Could you kindly STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT EVERY TOPIC ON THE PLANET GOING BACK TO THE PHAROAHS BESIDES THE RECENT INCREASE IN MURDERS SHE'S DISCUSSING?
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 10:56am
The title of the post is "If you hate the culture wars, blame Liberals".
The link is to a Kevin Drum article arguing that the Left created the culture wars.
Edit to add;
The MLK comparison is appropriate because moves to the "Left" can result in a loss of general support.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 11:35am
Drum's essay and the topic of this thread are not the 1960's nor the election of Nixon nor the Civil Rights movement during the presidencies of JFK and LBJ. It's about the present, not 55 years ago. I will admit there is a reference to losing Democrats to Reagan 15 years later. That WAS different! Totally. One piece of evidence was the way that Jesse Jackson could easily win some of those "Reagan Dems" back with the right rhetoric. It wasn't about race, it was about class, working class. You can shout that Nixon and Reagan are exactly the same southern strategy racism till you are blue in the face and no one here is going to do anything but ridicule you. (Even Nixon strategy can't totally be so simply and moronically interpreted as you do, he was trying to counter Geo. Wallace fans, where the real racists were.)
Now is not then. It's 2021. You deserve to be ridiculed if you continually present the simplistic position that nothing has changed in 50 years and things like you know what MLK Jr. would think if he was still alive. To not believe things change is actually one definition of conservative and you are the only one here that thinks that way, conservatively.
Hello Mr. Been in A Coma: since that time we've had a re-elected Democratic president who was a governor in the deep South and who was "our first black president" and then we had a second black Democratic president who was also re-elected.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 11:52am
Republicans believe:
The 2020 Presidential election was stolen
Say January 6th never happened
Have to work to suppress votes to win elections
Want laws that allow Republican legislatures or judges to overturn elections.
I'm much more worried about what the Arizona and Texas legislators are doing than I am by Sanders or AOC.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 12:14pm
Facts:
Again, you prove PP correct in chastising you, you talk about shit that doesn't even apply as if you haven't a clue what we are talking about, you are locked in this simplistic partisan bubble and can only shout simplistic ancient partisan sloganeering that suggests nothing more than need for instruction and learning on your part.
And that is how you drag us all into the same old same old. No one here is interested in being dragged into your same old same old and your lack of interest in nuance, complexities, change.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 12:35pm
Facts:
The President wants to increase funding of the police
Defund the police is a Republican talking point that doesn't apply to what the party as a whole is doing.
Republicans would not be focused on suppressing votes if they had the winning hand.
Congressional Republicans are the ones dishonoring and defunding the police.
Here is a link to a Chris Wallace interview with a Republican Congressman
Wallace police points out that it is Republicans who do not want to fund the police.
Wallace also notes that only a small fraction of Democrats are calling for defunding or abolition of police.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jun/28/chris-wallace-republicans-defunding-the-police-fox-news-congressman-jim-banks
Repeatedly tying Democrats, and not Republicans, to defunding gives a skewed picture.
Edit to add:
I make the argument binary because funding comes from people in Congress
Democrat support funding
Republicans do not
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 12:59pm
Who made "defund the police" a chant marching through the streets?
so-called Progressives tied themselves to the issue big time.
I don't recall it being a big issue at CPAC or elsewhere.
Nice try, but ultimately #FAIL.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 2:06pm
You are too lenient, this stuff is easy to look up because it's all on my blog. Main BLM activists fought blatantly and publicly for not only "Defund" and official Black Lives Matter policy was always for "Abolish" as well. It was right on their website, unashamedly. BLACK LIVES MATTER ACTIVISTS STRIKE BACK AT DEMS SLAMMING 'DEFUND THE POLICE'
Then there's my whole thread starting Sept. 26: #BLACK LIVES MATTER & BLM GROUPS PLEASE STOP ALL PROTESTS UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION
here's two earlier long threads on how the protests were helping Trump and the GOP by being not just anti-police but anti-law-and-order and even anarchist sometimes threatening alienating all important suburban voters: FEEDS TRUMP'S MEME ABOUT PROTECTING SUBURBANITES and TRUMP CAMPAIGN TV AD WITH "DEFUND THE POLICE" TOPIC
(Also on real politics and politicians, FWIW I had this thread LEFTY DEM INSURRECTIONISM BEFORE & AFTER THE DEM CONVENTION)
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:11pm
p.s. heh funny what popped up on a quick search I did was this 2015 thread by Wattree
BLACK SHERIFF, DAVID CLARKE, SAYS 'BLACK LIVES MATTER' WILL JOIN FORCES WITH TERRORISTS TO BRING DOWN AMERICA
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:14pm
Who in Democratic leadership is running on defund the police?
You are gullible enough to pick up a Republican talking point
You guys are hilarious
While you are focused on nonsense, the Republicans in Texas are instituting voter restrictions.
Gotta watch out for those transgender bathrooms and kindergarten classes on Critical Race Theory.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:22pm
AGAIN, THE TITLE OF THE THREAD:
IF YOU HATE CULTURE WARS, BLAME LIBERALS
Though the charts do show a leftward move of the Dem party over time, the title doesn't even say Democrats, it says "liberals".
It's about culture wars, this thread is about the American populace and how they react to culture wars and the game like is played with mom where the kid says "he started it."
HOW MANY TIMES does it have to be made clear to you that you are changing the topic?
Do you even understand what the word "culture" means?
If you want to discuss voting restrictions, start another thread.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:32pm
all that said, it sure IS interesting to see you SOOOO SUPPORTIVE OF THE POLICE. really rich after trashing them with daily posts for like a year! Or was it more than a year? Started before George Floyd?. It seemed endless:oh another news story by rmrd about how horrible police are in every way every day, until the flood got so tiresome that pp made you relegate it to one thread labeled "Police Abuse" which had like 500 comments....,
never once, out of thousands of stories and comments, any item about the good police do. Not even at the Capitol Jan. 6, on Jan. 6 you were ready to hang all of them saying that if the protesters were black,the Capitol police wouldn't be so nice to them, it was all a set up, they were in on it, letting Trump supporters in, etc.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:41pm
If Republicans are willing to believe the Big Lie, that is not the fault of the Woke.
If Republicans deny that January 6th was a real event, that is not the fault of the Woke.
If Republicans in Congress refuse to honor or shake the hands of police officers who saved the lives of members of Congress, that is not the fault of the Woke.
Your so-called culture war is just a weapon in the GOP toolkit.
You cannot neglect the obvious.
Edit to add:
Opinion: The new shape of the culture war is a revived Lost Cause
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/05/21/new-shape-culture-war-is-revived-lost-cause/
Conservatives Have No Plan To Win the Culture War. They Intend to Rule Anyway.
Republicans would have to make changes to win the hearts and minds of the young. They have no intention of doing that. They intend to kill democracy, instead.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/07/05/conservatives-have-no-plan-to-win-the-culture-war-but-they-intend-to-rule-anyway/
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:53pm
Your favorite strawman is that somebody said the Big Lie was the fault of The Woke. NOBODY SAID THAT.
Some of us don't like what The Woke are doing to our country and culture, just like we don't like what Trump did to our country and culture.
Some of us actually think Trump practices the same type of thing The Woke practices, which is: DISTRACTING CULTURE WARS. It's the only thing he's capable at, actually. He knows how to play what used to be called "politically correct" and is now called Woke, at their own game.
That don't belong in politics because: politics can't solve those problems.
Trump is not a politician nor was he capable at governing because: he is a culture warrior for narcissist reasons.
These cultural issues are exclusively the province of our culture and any related legal issues are handled by the justice system, and those with a minority view of the culture issues are represented by the third branch of government, for a reason you don't seem to understand. Governments and politicians can't change culture, they can only make it go hidden, underground. They can use it to distract, sure. The only thing that can change culture is culture and peer pressure. Debate doesn't work here more than anywhere else, it distracts to no good result. Probably easier to make people change their religious beliefs.
If you want our country to stop being so divided, you would avoid this CRAP just like Biden and Bernie and many others do. If you want it to get more divided and angry, you will support both The Woke and Trump playing their tunes.
If you like the GOP under the thumb of Trump populist demagoguery, you will support all The Woke crap and the countering crap that Trump and his minions offer. IT'S ALL DEMAGOGUERY, IT'S CULTURE WARS. THAT'S WHAT DEMAGOGUES DO, CULTURE WARS.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 6:16pm
CRT has been around for decades. The Right made it into a culture war issue.
CRT was an issue in law and graduate school
Nikole Hannah-Jones, Ibram X Kendi, and Robin Di Angelo are not a part of CRT
The actions of Republicans in Texas today point to why the country is divided.
Texas Republicans want the right to overthrow election results.
There is an outright assault on democracy.
The so-called culture wars are are used as a scare tactic to coverup a coup.
Interpreting Drum's curves, Democrats change with the times
Republicans stand athwart history yelling "Stop".
Edit to add:
The debate about CRT was created and funded by the Right
From NPR
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009839021/uncovering-who-is-driving-the-fight-against-critical-race-theory-in-schools
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 7:07pm
Gotta watch out for those transgender bathrooms
Actually, that is exactly the kind of Woke shit that bothers people a lot and distracts from real issues and is exactly what this thread is about. Woke raised a demand that people should be able to chose the bathroom despite their genitalia, out of the blue, and Republicans picked up on it and played it because they knew it would upset people. Distraction successful. Started by the woke.Republicans used it to distract.
Who in Democratic leadership is running on defund the police?
Republican operatives already compiled a video on that, no need for me to list them.
Distraction successful. Started by "progressives". Republicans used it to distract.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 9:04pm
The president who has supported more funding for police not less since before he was elected, which was a bipartisan, centrist thing to do BECAUSE he was a centrist courting bipartisan and independent votes and telling the progressives in his own party to STFU "Defund" is not what we are going to do.
Jim Clyburn whoop you side of head for the revisionist history. He had to tell the "progressives" in the party to STFU with the Defund until the GA Senate race was over lest they lose those too as well as the House seats they lost. over the "Defund" slogan being mouthed by the progressive wing, as well as the "socialism" word.
But again that's not what this thread is about! It's about culture wars and who starts them.
I simply brought up the case of a criminal black man practicing violence on another black man after a non-violence meeting to challenge your thought bubble about Mr. Nonviolence, the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.! AND YOU DIDN'T GET IT! Went right over your head! And you segue into talking about unrelated.again about policing.
This thread is about culture wars DISTRACTIONS and who causes them., POLITICAL CORRECTNESS if you don't get it, I.E. use Dr. Seuss books if you can't get the idea, arguing over them for a month while people are dying of covid. So that people don't actually vote on policy but brand a party incorrectly.
(edit for typo for clarity)
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:17pm
re: Defund the police is a Republican talking point Gees, thanks for letting us finally know that official BLM is a Republican organization; you kept it all to yourself all this time!
the DefundPolice.org which they encourage everyone to join includes things like these PDF'S
An Organizer’s Toolkit for Developing Campaigns to Abolish Policing by Critical Resistance
and
What’s Next? Safer and More Just Communities Without Policing
That and so much more is on my Feb. 26 thread on topic, on which you commented a lot back when you were in your anti-police, pro-BLM "Republican" persona. People can check on what you had to say there:
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 7:26pm
If the median voter means a majority or plurality of voters that doesn't seem plausible, or else the Democrats wouldn't have won. If Republicans had the electorate on their side they wouldn't be trying to prevent people from voting.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 3:40am
fuck these
BLMcop-hating white anarchist lefties; black lives don't really matter to them, hating cops does, though. AND they are doing as much harm to the Dem party as Trumpies are doing to the GOP:AND they are cruel. They need to be denounced as extremists who want to see our society fall.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 8:26am
NYC. A reminder this was a primary with only registered Democrats allowed to vote:
Registration could only be changed a month in advance. So what went on here did not include, like, a lot of "Staten Island Republicans". This was registered Democrats
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 8:34am
"Defund the police" wasn't presented as a solution to rising crime, but as a solution to a particular category of crime: the killing of African-Americans by cops. I doubt the African-Americans who advocated it were really "insulated from violence".
by Aaron Carine on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 7:45pm
ha ha
it's Ta Ne-Hisi Coates praising the police in Feb., 2004.
He really was a good fresh thinker back in the aughts, realistic sensible anti-leftist (not at all afraid to truth tell to political correctness) sort of in the matter of Thos. Chattersworth Williams. I remember Bruce Levine back at TPM Cafe going "who is that, wow, I like what he's saying!" when he first saw one of Coates' columns.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 11:32am
This article is dumb. It ignores The Tea Party, the overt signalling with picking Sarah Palin, how the Republicans have steadily sidelined anyone not fanatic enough so that Mitt Romney - the 2012 GOP candidate - and Liz Cheney - daughter of a quintessential hardcore divisive Republican - are no longer welcome in the party , while Paul Ryan's already past shelf life, Chris Christie's been trying to hold on for years, Mitch McConnell is on his way out after serving his Trumpian purposes.
The the Republicans gave up pretense of any principle in awe of Trumpland Gangland is somehow a plus in Kevin's world - Republicans no longer believe in balanced budgets not because they decided it wasn't the right thing to do, but because Trump started using budgets to pay off the base, so Republicans flip-flopped on the values thing. Does being amoral buy points? Similarly Republicans decided there were no points in bashing gays, so they dropped it in favor of bashing Culture Wars stuff - gone are the "Heather has 2 mommies" complaints, so yeah, GOP capitulated So it could bash more fruitfully elsewhere.
Now, is assault on voting rights - the "death by 1000 cuts/20 states" a "culture war" or is it just political cheating? I don't think they really care if the voter's black - they care if they denied a vote from a Democrat. Presumably somehow Dems are more culture wars by standing up for existing laws and precedents, rather than endless recounts, attempts to overthrow the vote...
As for shooting deaths, I'm really not sure which party is fighting the most culture wars thing, but branding Hillary as "coming for your guns" was the pro-gun "they're coming to take away our guns" Palin's AR-15 Barbie presented the culture war. Liberals running paedophilia was the GOP Comet Pizza culture war contribution. Working with Assange to push the "Hillary had Seth Rich whacked" was another crooked empire play, followed by "Obama's Deep State was spying on Trump". Stealing Supreme Court picks and ramming through conservatives while obstructing/slowing Dem picks was certainly "our cultural view at any cost", including specific cultural issues at many levels in government - destroying much of the usual apolitical civil servant running of government to have distinctly culture warrior types ram through new policies, often with the purpose of destroying gov effectiveness and response, rather than even trying to initiate a coherent policy shift.. The politicizing of Falwell's billion dollar church/political arm under the banner of "anything else is against what God wants" was certainly an over-the-top culture wars play. And then there's Fox News followed by OANN and Newsmax shifts to escalate culture war news propaganda further than even Murdoch would carry it.
Sorry, not buying a few graphs that seemingly obscure more than a decade of GOP fuckery - oh, did i leave out Bundy's and the new Proud boys/Oath keepers tied to the populist Trump gang that actively preached of the press as treasonous enemies who should be strung up or at least smashed in the face? The ones who were willing to trample any law because GOP goals - meaning now Trump goals - were Godly and right and if the law didn't support his whim, it's because traitorous Dems had refused to do God's - meaning Trump's - bidding.
Never before has an Attorney General been so in the pocket of a crooked President - most of their work being totally focused on daily culture wars, cementing reworking government and laws to put their multiple thumbs on the scales - even to the extent of sending in uniformed soldiers and police officers into the streets not to control the BLM and other street protest crazy, but to stir it up even more for partisan gain - firing tear gas and damaging rubber bullets at protesters & press just 1 of many low points.
Even the compelling analogy of BLM protesters trashing storefronts and splainin' gentrifiers vs Capitol Hill riots falls apart when you realize the latter came deeply organized with criminal support from the oval office down, millions of dollars in backing including for recruiting, a significant number of arms and a penchant for human violence that the left didn't, and the attitude not to be telling Al fresco diners what they shouldn't be having for dinner but to hold Senate and House members hostage and 'splain' to them how they should "interpret" (read: overthrow) the laws, and if not for the cleverness of a greatly (and intentionally) overwhelmed police force, they would have had Speaker Pelosi and Mitt Romney and VP Pence down in a basement reading them their options. Culture war blame on the left? Sure, there's some - but they didn't play their flyover and conservative culture ethic nearly as strongly and illegally as the right. Look at the reluctance Obama had to even announce Russian involvement in 2016 - letting mushy mouth Comey along with Assange, Roger Stone & Rudy's FBI pals steer the narrative. They didn't even shut down Trump doing an end-around sanctions pre-office or keep his team from meeting with Qatar et al, while Barr dishonestly steered the narrative on the Mueller report, and the whole government was co-opted to try to make Hunter & Joe Biden look bad. Was that not a "culture war"? The fine lads & lasses of Trump Tower & Mar-a-Lago vs the "corrupt socialists" of the other party?
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 11:47am
middle class, two skin colors and genders, agree, and I suspect they represent an awful lot of people:
also
and furthermore
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 1:05pm
Joseph John appears to have 21 followers on Twitter.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 1:23pm
He's been on 1 month & has double what I have in a year.
But yes, the stupid mono-syllable stuff he writes is totally trollish.
Meanwhile:
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 2:19pm
Drum argues that Democrats have been pushed to the Left more than Republicans have been pushed to the Right. That is garbage. Republicans create controversy out of nothing. They were worried about a War on Christmas. Transgender bathrooms, Shiria law being forced on the United States, etc. Now they are worried about Critical Race Theory. They are able to play the public for fools.
I will again point out that Republicans are working to form an authoritarian government. Keep posting about the guy who has 21 followers on Twitter. Nikole Hannah-Jones does not represent the threat presented by the political party that is trying to argue that Trump lost the election and January 6th was just a bunch of tourists. You sleep on the real danger.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 2:55pm
Whatever he's trolling someone who knows how to answer him, mho. Someone who has seen it before. Whether he's Afro-American or Russian, doesn't matter, because there's plenty out there that do that and that Clifton doesn't like it when that happens is the point.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 4:03pm
a reminder that SNL was not afraid to ridicule the earnest culture warriors: AUNT JEMIMA AND UNCLE BEN LOSE THEIR JOBS
edit to add: Americans also had to deal with "INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY OF RAGE" PROTESTS. I imagine Italian-Americans especially didn't enjoy that much.
And let's not forget things like policing of Halloween costumes.Most Americans just soooo happy that started happening and no one but conservatives complains.
Tearing down statues of Lincoln because he wasn't abolitionist enough. Not a peep on that from any Democratic politician cause: they might get cancelled!
Democratic politicians either say zip or are supportive and participate!
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 4:19pm
Obama, to his credit, did say something. Once, Oct. 2019. Not enough, mho. I think he's under the impression it's just college kids and the grownups don't even see it because he no longer deals with trying to win over voters. But grownups do see it, a lot. And associate it with liberal Democrats.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 4:27pm
Yglesias' opinion on what even Bernie knows but lot of his fans and acolytes don't
I think Yglesias is spot on here. (A related reminder that Bernie i.d. as an Independent at one time.)
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 5:52pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/11/2021 - 8:39pm
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 10:34am
summary from this artnet.com July 12 industry news compilation
And I think it's obviously become a popular thing right now to question the whole culture wars thing!
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 1:20pm
one guy working on countering the narrative
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 4:24pm
About 22 percent of Americans use Twitter.
And roughly 10 percent of those users are responsible for 80 percent of tweets — meaning just 2 percent of Americans are contributing to a majority of the site’s dialogue, the researchers noted.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 7:27pm
^ I still think the above paragraph nails it all best, including for the U.S. And 'who started it?" is like Mom with the two little boys, they're both doing it and it doesn't matter that much who "started it" on any one issue. MORE IMPORTANTLY, often as not of the three reasons here stoked by those seeking political, personal, or commercial gain, the last two are often the real reasons if you dig a little (i.e. Trump for 'ratings' to feed the narcissism, most Fox news people for ratings for money, on the other side you similarly got Shaun King or Nikole Hannah-Jones or Bree Newsome).
Here's a perfect example. This is cynical, not passionate belief:
Just like Shaun King or Roger Stone.
And why did they think there's a need or a market for a "Starbucks of the Right"? Because Starbucks sells faux lefty environmental branding of coffee. What's ridiculous--OR MAYBE NOT- is anarchists don't fall for this, Starbucks is one of their favorites to attack!
It's mostly distracting nonsense about lifestyle, culture wars, and doesn't affect something like voting much at all, the effect is in distraction from things like real voting! Really sitting down and figuring out which candidates will help the causes you believe in has nothing to do with a lot of this shit. I know of more than a few people who cynically voted for Trump knowing full well he is often a blithering idiot, precisely because they knew his minions would mostly follow DeSantis tyoe governing and that's what they prefer to the usual Democratic party policies.
Only issue that's long been labeled culture wars and maybe shouldn't because it really is about people's deep moral values is "right to life", both abortion and assisted vs. prolonged death, as well as family planning (and throw in capital punishment)
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 3:59pm
WHY did this happen?
I'd say look to Bernie, who tries not to indulge much in culture wars, prefering class war. Then check out how people like Robin Di Angelo and Ibrahim X. Kendi are making money hand over fist...and who they will refuse to debate with...and who they see as monetarily fruitful enemies to recognize...
it's like the flip side of classic Murdoch marketing
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 4:27pm
it's games people play to afford a Tucker-Carlson-type lifestyle?
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 4:40pm
Bree Newsome stoking the divisiveness any which way she can to her 479,000 followers (and note she has not changed the name of her Twitter account DEFUND & ABOLISH POLICE, REFUND OUR COMMUNITIES)
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 4:37pm
The majority of Democrats in office or running for office do not support defunding the police or abolishing the police.
Critical race theory is not being taught in schools.
Republicans realize that they can create myths that gullible people will accept at truth.
Allowing women to have control over their bodies is worth the fight.
Immigration rights is worth the fight.
People who argue against these things or excuse those who oppose these things will be on the wrong side of history.
Republicans may indeed win seats in legislatures and Congress, they have lost the culture.
Because they have lost the culture, Republicans cheat at the ballot box.
The majority of people in the United States have no idea about Bree Newsome
Fewer still follow her on social media.
Edit to add:
Politics is a part of the culture
If one group says they are willing to steal elections, part of the opposing group will find ways to GOTV
Another section of the opposition will buy weapons in case the worse happens
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 9:05pm
You just are in such a national partisan politics bubble that if it's not about race ( which in your case is always U.S. simplistic U.S. blacks vs.U.S. whites,) you frame everything everything as national Democrats vs. national Republicans.
Plenty of other people care about other frames! For example
Please take your simplistic political interpretation about this elsewhere on another thread. I am begging you. The rest of us might want to discuss CULTURE WARS. Not politics uber alles but culture uber alles.
I guarantee you FOR THE MAJORITY IN THIS COUNTRY, EVERYTHING IS NOT ABOUT who wins: REPUBLICAN PARTY vs. DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Many do want to talk about the Trump effect, that's because they care about individual celebrity politicians!
Note again: THE TITLE SAYS "LIBERAL" not Democrat. This is basically about whether the Overton window has moved for liberal and the populace
It's defintely not what you want to talk about. ANYTIME IT COMES TO CULTURE WARS, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. Same thing happened with my WOKEE thread, you were always hijacking it so as to like minimalize the damage politically and that was a WTF, because the rest of us just want to learn about these people and movements and not have to filter it all as a political partisan and spin it
CUT IT OUT, PLEASE JUST CUT IT OUT, START YOUR OWN THREAD.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 9:13pm
P.S. just came to mind posting a new bunch of perp stories on my crime thread: I could see you wondering whether they are registered Democrats or Republicans and are trying to destroy the opposing party by doing what they did. And I think to a person they probably don't give a flying fuck about politicis. Believe it or not, some people live life every day thinking about things like crime, guns, who is in bathroom stall next to them, what defines a female, why did they take Uncle Ben off the rice and don't assign any of those things to a political party and who "wins" the next election, wouldn't even ever consider that framing in a million years, BUT they might be interested in WHETHER PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE "LIBERAL" or "CONSERVATIVE" or something else...it's about values not politics. Just because national politicians game such things doesn't mean they don't have real import, maybe much more import than politics.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 9:45pm
You cannot take politics out of the culture war discussion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/14/why-is-gop-waging-culture-war-follow-money/
Just because you don't want to discuss it does not mean the battle is not engaged.
Edit to add:
Drum's curves divide the argument into Democrats and Republicans.
Drum says that Democrats need to pull themselves to the "Center"
He makes a political argument.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/12/2021 - 10:23pm
Right-cancelled Dixie Chicks, perhaps the most flyover country new generation female group of my lifetime, crossover country pop. Look at a stadium full of mostly female fans singing along, no out of whack testosterone-filled rave, no bitchez and ho's yo, no twerking, no hugely politicized Rage Against the Machine messages - just good music that appealed cross-generation, made people feel good. And gone for expressing 1 tame, short carefully-worded political comment. Back into the kitchen, bitch - you'll vote how your man tells you to vote.
Yeah, the left really started the culture wars my ass.
https://youtu.be/C9NG7cLNzbs
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 3:06am
Tim Miller wrote a piece at The Bulwark addressing Drum's article (and the Noonan piece talking about it, too) I think it clarifies about frames of reference
and you going far back in the past, i.e. Tea Party, Dixie Chicks, that's going way beyond Drum's framing too. Drum is addressing the fact that the Overton window of liberals has gone left in the RECENT PAST. He's talking about "if you hate the current culture wars". Also keep in mind he says he likes that things have been dragged left.
I think you're not realizing how much this is really about Boomer liberalism vs. Millennial "liberalism" in current times. Millennial is WOKE far left, socialist anti-racist anti-colonialist. Boomer is Saturday Night Live and Clinton Third Way after leaving a lot of things from their youth revolution behind. The fight is allover social media. Boomer liberal is more "liberal" in temperment and values (i.e. still drugs sex and rock n roll mentality), millennial liberal is TRUE real culture warring, like warriors, puritans, preachers, zealots trying to make everyone as virtuous as possible down to the children's books. Millennial wokee type really have dragged the window over, have everyone looking over their shoulder, having some liberals questioning if they are really bad evil capitalist colonizing people. Center of the American public have never liked that, libertarianism about social values is deep in American culture. The majority doesn't like it any more from the left than they do from the right, i.e. Christian Coalition in the 80's.
(Is why I instinctively posted the thing upthread about conservative evangelical population growing ever smaller. It is related. At the same time, more of the harridans on values are on the left. It is unfortunate all of this gets ascribed to the big tent parties, when it is their radical activists who are a minority. And yes, another big thing: Trumpism screwed this up royally too! He mixed it all up!)
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 10:57am
p.s. can't emphasize Miller's clarification enough. Once again Drum's piece is titled If you hate culture wars, blame the liberals. It doesn't say If you hate politicians using culture wars, blame the liberals. And in that context he's talking about recent shifts, not history. A reminder too, that he says the effect of the shift is fine by him, he's just pointing it out.
Actually, as I pointed out, lots of classically liberal politicians, like say, Bernie, and moderate politicians of all kinds, try to AVOID getting into culture wars! Whatever they may be at the time. Culture wars are properly personal, not political. (Hence also the argument by lefty radical preachers of old that the personal is political.)
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 11:08am
1) i included Dixie Chicks, Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Bundy's,Jerry Falwell Jr, OathKeepers/Proud Boys, Jan 6 rebellion. It's a continuum of new culture wars - Hillary'll take our guns, Obama's introducing socialism with healthcare (plus Fast and Furious), Joe's a traitor, but it all seeps down to the grassroots level - Appalachian women wearing "he can grab my pussy" and "lock her up" t-shirts, all the caravan/immigration stuff to scare joe six-pack, the whole pandemic "destroying your freedom, like living under communism" thing. Even if BLM didn't venture out the door for 4 years, they'd be running the same ads. Look at CPAC - still blaming Hillary in 2021 and she hasn't been seen in 2 years? Fox news, still running Hillary stories, or Fast and Furious as if it happened yesterday? Wicked propaganda, and that doesn't even touch what's been happening on Facebook where the real action is.
2) i forgot 2.
Oh yeah, the effect of whatever left culture wars stuff is greatly over hyped. Wassername couldn't even get tenure. The new mayor of New York is a cop. There's enough pushback. Sure, there may be some effective censorship, but much of it is just the normal people having not very good solutions to common ongoing problems, or one of those psychological factors like the availability effect - we overvaue/over worry about what we see, not the actual oercentage. Black folks in shoot-em-up neighborhoods aren't buying into defund the police movements. People standing in long lines to vote aren't joining in on Voter ID pushes (even tho it's hard to imaging many people not having ID, they all know how Republicans use all these opportunities to fuck with people over and over given any possibility, so their asshole GOP posses showing up on election day to "question" voters in line is just what you'd assume it to be, an opening for asshole intimidation, often with approval by local government. Look at the Maricopa "recount" - completely dishonest effort used for proganda purposes, like the 60 obvious court cases they lost - it's a sin to assume many of them are really being sincere at this point - even though the 1619 stuff is largely poorly done and dowles spark *some* worries for parents trying to ensure an education for their kids or people in institute's who don't want to be shut down or fired for saying something normal and obvious).
So far the PC Critical Race Theory etc has more success in left-leaning environments where they actually pay some attention to left opinion. Crime of course is real - don't have to exaggerate.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 11:50am
I see you as agreeing with him! that the culture warriors do not only not represent most people, but they don't like them
This is how you end up with people not wanting to be loyal to either party, and register as Independents instead, because they see both as growingly extremist on culture wars issues that most do not think belong in politics. Regulating what you can do, think and buy according to extremist morals.
Making you feel fucking guilty for your race or religion or whatever is one of my very special favorites, though--what a way to get votes. It's like asking for pushback, begets more extremist counter reaction
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 12:42pm
and playing the left political correctness with the many that have grievance about that is the only thing Trump had true skills for. There is no ideology to him except THAT. And it resounded with an awful lot of people that aren't fond of either party as they were as far as culture wars are concerned. Now in the GOP most of them are following him on that, when they weren't before he was elected. So basically hatred of lefty culture warrior memes is what enabled Trump to take over the GOP and hijack their traditional political policy goals of like low taxation...WHY do I even have to go there, just read The Bulwark and similar, they want their party back from Trump Warrior against Left Culture Wars...Mr. save our statues and way of life...
why don't you see how the playing field has changed? they have taken over the roll of victim and counterreaction while the left is the aggressive warrior? Trump helped do that, turn the tables on victimhood
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 12:56pm
I don't have to "agree" with anyone - i can evaluate what's too woke PC, what's unjust societally, what's stupid, what has a point, etc. I often disagree with you on how much better i think cops should act towards people, esp. Blacks, even if I don't want to defund them and am equally horrified by the shooting rampages. I don't buy the 1619, nor do I agree with Critical Race Theory, but I'm torn on how much effect it actually has - newsrooms yes, corporations no, schools somewhat... And yes, i think the "Moral Majority" fucktards have been playing their culture wars for decades, and when you think they'd be humiliated like 2008/2009 crash, the rise zombie phoenix-like in some other stupid guise and start their crap again. That do ant mean i don't think liberals latch on to some stupid crap, and my opinion of Bernie has been none too subtle, but as for who's leading th culture wars insanity, i still think the right's support the troops as an answer to all/God wanted Trump to be president/immigrant caravans are coming to steal all our good jobs/liberals waging war on Christmas/Hillary's taking our guns away... On and in and fucking on,
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 2:58pm
Thank you bringing up the supposed "moral majority" which raises this important point for me: whether they were ever a majority doesn't matter any more because they're mostly gone now! That was a feature of the "greatest generation" and they are mostly dead! Boomers have taken their place. In the western world at least, Boomers are retirees with much more complicated morals. Though there is certainly very much still a "generation gap" it's over significantly different things.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 4:40pm
Zombies, reviving in various forms
No, they never had any actual principles it seems.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 3:59pm
Yglesias involved in a highly related discussion:
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/13/2021 - 6:39pm
A different take on the culture war from Thomas B. Ed's all in the NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/opinion/culture-war-democrats-republicans.html
An interesting critique of columns by Kevin Drum and Damon Linker who suggest Liberals push culture wars.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 8:50am
Largely tracks my response. It is a fair point re: not just knowing gays, but much about living in a city - those havens that are mostly Democratic - pushes the envelope more than suburban or rural life, so that social services may be more visiable, street crime is more visible, the variety of characters you meet each day is much more diverse, the types of cultural events is much more diverse, etc., etc. It is not surprising that cities are more liberal, but that doesn't make it a "war" - it means rivers carry more water than streams.
Re: Andrew Sullivan, some of his observations seem valid, some not so much. I don't know that many liberals are actually giving carte blanche to "punch a fascist" - who actually did this, vs. people at Trump speeches who *did* punch interlopers? When you talk about science and trendy lenses like "white supremacy" - how many people actually think of science from these race or manifest destiny viewpoints, vs. the impression from articles in magazines that most people read and shake their heads? After your first encounter (in the news, not real life), have you run into anyone going by something other than him or her? Even on Twitter I see the standard "he/his" or however they do it. There's been plenty of pushback on transgender females competing with biological females - a bit too much slam dunk rules for declaring transgender females identical in sex and rights, ignororing women - the biological ones who shouldn't need an adjective - but this is new enough we should expect some tweaking of the rules - it's been an actual issue all of 2-3 years? "Religious freedom" has been contentious at the intersection between black churches, protestant evangelicals and old-school Catholics - with the evangelicals trying to play Johnny-come-lately victims of the supposed liberal "war on Christianity" (when the black churches' use of the pulpit to defend themselves from racial attacks made tremendous sense, whereas the "war on Christianity" has been a mixed message - it's a war on Christianity for Christians to not pray in public school or at the ball park? Santa was in lots of 40s & 50s movies without him being an attack on the Saviour, when the Macy's Parade ran big. Why the big ruckus now? (yes, it's also dumb for liberals to claim the Salvation Army as an "antigay group" - seriously, grow up, everyone.)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 2:12pm
Like a lot of people, Sullivan makes accusations against the "left" without providing evidence or naming the people who are supposedly doing these terrible things. I remember Mona Charen's book Useful Idiots, in which she rants that the news media supported the Soviet Union and loved Communists everywhere, but only actually names one pro-Soviet journalist, Walter Duranty.
by Aaron Carine on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 3:09pm
Yet this exists:
Continues...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 2:31pm
he's clearly thinking on the similarities and differences of what happened to him at Apple and how it is in Cuba
it's sort of "the many different degrees of Orwell"?
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 8:50pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 1:03am
Pretty horrifying. Worse than your usual "Network" segment.
Is there an equivalent silencing effect on the right? Is that why they're all afraid of Trump? (or are they?)
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/15/2021 - 3:30am
Legislation geared at changing the status quo
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/politics/marijuana-legalization-schumer.html
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 9:04am
Jonah Goldberg interacting with Nikole Hannah-Jones
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/14/2021 - 11:18pm
All that glitters ain't divulged
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/16/2021 - 7:40am
The victims still have to click on the fake content to get infected, amirite?
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/16/2021 - 10:52am
I wouldn't count on it.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/16/2021 - 11:33am
Friedman as Econ Culture War
(great read)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/17/2021 - 12:32am
Russian culture bombing
(how does disinfo and shit-disturbing affect assignment of blame, especially when media seems none-too-savvy about handling)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/17/2021 - 3:49am
Fox culture wars
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/17/2021 - 12:17pm
Ken Starr, sexy time culture warrior
(I'm pretty amazed by the scathing comments though - kind of supports the idea of snakes and raptors on both sides, though i guess i do have to contemplate her own agency and why this was a slow leaking "surprise" through the decades.)
https://medium.com/@judihershman/ken-starr-brett-kavanaugh-jeffrey-epste...
Interesting 1 comment addressing Bob Hastert as Speaker/high ranking known-to-be compromised pedophile, and wondering how much of government over the last 3 decades has been bent by extortion over hidden crimes, Epstein being both an extorter and probably a prime example of "business-as-usual" pragmatickém, despite the evangelical covering
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/18/2021 - 12:41am
Biden's culture war response
https://www.salon.com/2021/07/17/bidens-secret-weapon-in-fight-against-c...
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/18/2021 - 1:22am
Claremont's cultural Journey to hell
https://thebulwark.com/what-the-hell-happened-to-the-claremont-institute/
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/18/2021 - 3:33pm
America’s Collapsing Meritocracy Is a Recipe for Revolt. Chinese history shows what happens when an old system loses its force. Op-ed by Paul Musgrave, assistant professor of political science at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/18/2021 - 9:03pm
"i carefully reviewed the qualifications of all the candidates and hired the one with the biggest tits". We're back to the Silicon Valley thing, the "level playing field", what age, what looks, what niche segment of bro programmers, allegiance to certain sitcoms and video games...
One school i went to we knew we were the worker bees of the military-industrial workforce. Another we were the near beer wannabes for the Ivy League class. Another was pseudo-community college, half a mix with the University imprimeteur. The last was remote learning at a prestigious name. Each came with it's vested stamp of authenticity, a learning experience and cachet within certain limits. This before the $60k/year rule took over.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/18/2021 - 10:18pm
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/19/2021 - 5:46pm
Hint that the supposed racist obstructionism of the Senate GOP might not be all that it's cracked up to be:
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/19/2021 - 11:00pm
Perfect example of how stupid people are to take troll bait and participate in culture warring! It's usually to distract from what's really going on but it also in the end is often simply for monetary profit. Here the Biden administration quietly interceded (so as not to fuel the game and also not to require a player to reveal how faux it was and how many were fooled), and voila
If you play in the game, you are just helping those with an ulterior motive that is not revealed to "the masses." either profit from "infotainment" or distraction from what's really going on with those who control society. It is classic "bread and circuses"
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.
or as is in more modern usage "red meat for the base".
Yes it is usually preferable to try to stop the game by publicly revealing the nasty thing the wizard is doing behind the curtain, playing on people's emotions. But in this particular case, we were talking life and death, better to just get them to stop quietly rather than continue public warring.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/20/2021 - 1:09pm
Fake kayfabe shit meant to get liberals outraged and they fall for it nearly every time:
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/20/2021 - 8:17pm
Don't necessarily agree but thought-provoking:
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/21/2021 - 1:46am
Conservatives have been drawing lines since forever
1) no abortion, whatsoever, no exceptions
2) prayer in schools
3) no deficits (until they grew to love them)
4) no absentee ballots/easing of voting (except for military)
5) no trials for Gitmo prisoners / no Gizmo prisoners on US soil
6) tax cuts as solution to all problems
7) no federal health programs (except beloved pharma expansion)
Gonzales notably packed the attorneys offices, Trump packed the courts and he & McConnell finished of the Supreme Court
Various requirements on military, religion, immigration...
Texas has traditionally driven the education thing
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/21/2021 - 3:28am