Ben Jealous Releases Medicare-for-all Plan

By HSG on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 7:57am |

"Democratic gubernatorial candidate Ben Jealous released a plan Wednesday calling on Maryland to take the plunge and create a universal health care system without waiting for the the federal government to take the lead."

URL:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-jealous-health-20171205-story.html

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It's great to see Ben following the path I laid out for him back in April: "Mr. Jealous can win if he follows Bernie's script. He must forswear corporate contributions and fund his campaign on contributions of under $100 each. He should criss-cross the state with a focus on economically downtrodden communities. Inner-city Baltimore, hardscrabble Allegheny County and hard-hit neighborhoods in Prince George's County near the district line would all embrace a Sanders-style CALL FOR GOVERNMENT TO GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE, to provide tuition-free public colleges and universities, to take a much greater role in creating jobs and to improve public transportation." http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-governor-jealous-201...

by HSG on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 8:02am

From the linked article

The former NAACP president’s 19-page plan fleshes out his intentions of the issue — but leaves unanswered such questions as how much it will cost and whether Marylanders would have a choice of participating.

Jealous’ proposal flies in the face of skepticism about whether a single state can achieve the economies of scale necessary to set up a single-payer system on its own. Even in politically liberal California, with a population more than six times Maryland’s, efforts to set up a Medicare-for-all system have stalled in its Democratic-dominated legislature.

In Sanders’ home state of Vermont, Democrat Peter Shumlin won the governorship in 2010 on a promise to set up a single-payer system. But in 2014, he abandoned the plan, saying the tax rates Vermonters would have to pay for such a system would be “staggering.”

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/09/2017 - 6:13pm

Single-payer is kinda like Democracy. It's the worst way to deliver health care except for all the others.

by HSG on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 10:00am

That's the theory, as you know I disagree. I've posted why I'm against single payer on the federal level. When the government forces the majority of people to give up the employer based insurance they like and forces them into a government program it will a political loser. Attempting to set up a state run single payer system isn't just bad politics. Setting up such a system within the federal system as it is won't work. While the state might be able to transfer some of the federal money to their single payer system most will be lost because it would require cooperation from the federal government to allow the transfers which the state won't get with a republican president and congress. That federal money will need to be replaced with much higher state taxes. That's without even considering that economies of scale can't be achieved in smaller states. The fact that single payer advocates never reveal the costs of their plan tells us all we need to know about it's workability both financially and politically

by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 2:43pm

Unfortunately, it appears that I can no longer paste images into my comments. In this case a couple of pictures would be worth more than 2,000 words but here goes: 1) The U.S. spends much more on health care per capita and as a percentage of GDP than peer nations which have some form of universal single-payer health care. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/issue-brief/... 2) Americans suffer worse outcomes than our peers in those other countries. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-he...

by HSG on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 2:49pm

Those links don't address my arguments. In fact you never address my arguments on this issue. You always attempt to pivot. If we were having a theoretical discussion about what type of health insurance a theoretical country without any health insurance should put in place I think we'd probably agree almost 100%.

But the US isn't a theoretical country and it already has a very real system of health insurance that advocates of single payer plan to make radical changes to. A slim majority of Americans might say they favor single payer in the abstract but when it's made clear to them that the employer based insurance at least 70% of them have now and like will be ended and they will be forced into a government plan, single payer will lose by landslide proportions. If advocates of single payer, especially single payer by a state, made it clear how much their state taxes would need to be raised single payer would lose, again by landslide proportions. I don't care how much the liberal news or advertising tells them even with the tax hikes they'll be better off. They won't believe that and single payer will lose by landslide proportions. Single payer would lose even before the conservative media starts to trash it.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 3:25pm

When you say force people "into a government plan," do you mean pay their medical bills? In countries with single-payer, people pay (including the increased tax bill) less for medical treatment that results in better outcomes. Yes, the logistics will be difficult but that's no reason to throw up your hands and say we need to stick with the crappy over-priced system we have now.

by HSG on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 3:28pm

I haven't seen a single payer proposal that didn't say it was going to end the employer based insurance more than 70% of the people have and like. If they want health insurance they have to be enrolled into the government plan. You can make all the claims you want that they will be better off without those employer based plans but do you actually believe those losing the health care plan they like will believe you? Jealous doesn't release any data on the cost of his single payer plan let alone a detailed analysis of the costs, how much more state revenue would be needed to pay for it and how much state taxes will need to be raised. If the plan is so good and would be a political win for him why doesn't he, or any single payer advocate, tell the voters what it will cost them? All the politicians jumping on the single payer band wagon know if they honestly explain the costs single payer would lose by landslide proportions.

We don't have to stick with the system we have now. That's a straw man argument. I never said it. I notice just minutes ago you complained that NCD made arguments directed at you that you never made. You might consider practicing what you preach. I've posted in the past the path I think we should follow to improve our health care system. It wasn't throw up our hands and keep the crap we have now.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 3:58pm

You'd be surprised now many educated, afflunt and employer insured people call u a right-wing liar for trying to educate others about the costs and disruption expanding our existing single-payer system would cause. They seem to believe they can afford or avoid the transfer of the cost of their insurance from their employer to their taxes or they can somehow transfer this burden to those more wealthy than them. They may think this is an opportunity to open up society to more statist/commie ideas and the appearance of destroying the greedy capitalist insurance companies is more important than the reality of the snake-oil they are selling.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 4:41pm

To be clear I favor a Medicare for all system. The poor, the working poor most of whom don't get employer based insurance and the lower middle class if they are self employed or work for an employer that doesn't offer employer based insurance can not afford insurance. It's just impossible at that pay level. It's even difficult for some middle middle class people.

My first point is that small individual states can't make an affordable single payer system within their state in a nation with the federal programs we have now, with the federal tax breaks and other subsidies for employers and others. Also that smaller states won't get the economies of scale that a national system would have to keep down drug prices or insurance rates. And that while single payer is likely better in the long run it's a political loser. The 70% of the people with employer based insurance will never be convinced that the government program will be better than the insurance they now have that they are happy with.

Frankly Peter, from your posts here I have no doubt that if you've ever had a conversation with some educated, affluent and employer insured person it's likely you did lie.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 5:32pm

Frankly, OK I think you stole my ideas about how people with employer supplied HI would suffer under single-payer. I brought up these realities numerous times during earlier discussions of SP at other sites, but no one else did. I fail to see any logic in your apparent belief that a national SP regime wouldn't have the same negative reality as a state based one. The same people who pay nothing for their HI will have to pay additional taxes to cover most of their HC costs and buy private insurance to get full coverage.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 9:49pm

This is the only site I read the comments and discuss. I go to many sites but only to read the articles. I don't spend any time reading the comments or joining in. I support TPM and could comment in the prime sections but I only read the articles there too. If for some reason this site was unavailable I'd discuss there. I long ago realized that the vast majority of comment sections read like twitter feeds, each comment is too short to have any substance. I don't have time to spend sorting through hundreds of comments most of which are worthless. Nor do I have time to discuss with more than one group. The people here are intelligent, knowledgeable and articulate so I only participate here. If you're participating at other sites its impossible for me to have seen anything you've posted. I never read the comments on the articles I read at other sites.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 11:02pm

Anyone note Hal seems to disappear whenever Republican actions, policy and talking ponts are brought up?

As to drilling in the Arctic, Hal called Obama's use of existing law to force Shell out of the Beaufort Sea "hypocrisy."

We can now see the wisdom of Obama's move, as an executive order could be easily reversed, as has been the case with Trump since 1/20.

Trump and the Republicans are now moving not only to open the previously sacrosanct Arctic Wildlife Refuge to drilling, he is also attempting to do something never done before, shrink established National Monuments he or extractive corporations don't like.

I was hoping Hal would blog on these GOP actions, but he hasn't. It is increasingly appearing like Hal is more concerned with attacking Democrats than advancing and defending core principles, for instance, stopping the rape of the Arctic, and other pristine lands by Republicans.

by NCD on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 9:46pm

1) I did not call Obama a hypocrite for using "existing law to force Shell out of the BEAUFORT Sea." I called him a hypocrite for having green-lighted Shell's exploratory drilling in the CHUKCHI Sea while he was touring Alaska rightly decrying the terrible impacts of Anthropogenic Global Warming. 2) Although you say I "disappear whenever Republican actions, policy and talking points are brought up," among my recent blogs here are: A) A link to my Washington Post op-ed describing the negative impacts on Maryland of the Republican plan to repeal the Affordable Care. http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/md-has-lot-lose-if-obamacare-repealed-22871 (June 23). B) A very positive description of a Nancy Pelosi/Jamie Raskin town hall where they and others addressed the destructive implications of the Republican tax bill. http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/pelosiraskin-townhall-23871 (Nov 10). 3) Your concern that my criticisms of establishment Democrats may harm the party and thereby help more loathsome Republicans is understandable. But my argument is that the ascendancy of today's establishment Democrats is why Republicans are in charge. Until the Democratic Party rebecomes the party of Main Street, not Wall Street, the Democrats will have fleeting electoral wins and the country will continue on its downard trajectory.

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 9:20am

The Democratic Party had a President who signed the Civil Rights Bill. White voters in the South left the party. Democrats voted for the Affordable Care Act. They lost seats in Congress because one ethnic group threw a temper tantrum. White voters elected a Russian puppet, racist, misogynist. Trump is raising their taxes, taking away health care and access to education. Every other ethnic group votes for Democrats. If Democrats are the party of Wall Street, why does Wall Street love Donald Trump, Paul Ryan, and Mitch Mc Connell? Why is Trump decimating national parks so that corporations can plunder the land? Both parties are not the same.

Edit to add:

Think about the lack of logic in the argument that white voters think that Democrats are too close to Wall Street so they vote for Republicans. a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street. The tax bill benefits Wall Street. Are you admitting that white voters are irrational?

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 9:49am

As I've stated many times, for Democrats to win the white working class vote, they have to be much better than Republicans on economic issues because Republicans can and do play race, gender, and immigrants cards whenever and wherever they can. In the last election, the Republican candidate actually spoke about economic issues and rightly condemned the "free" trade deals that have done so much harm to poor, working, and middle-class Americans. The Democratic nominee pretty much ignored the economy. http://mediaproject.wesleyan.edu/blog/2016-election-study-published/ Do you think economic policy doesn't matter to voters?

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 9:57am

Economic matters are important.Democrats win the votes of working class blacks, Latinos, and Asians. Why is the white working class so out of touch? You seem to be admitting that a major part of the Republican appeal is race-baiting. Democrats are better on the economy. If the current tax bill does not prove that to the white working class, there is no effective message that the Democrats can deliver.

Edit to add:

Think about the double standard you set. If blacks who think that Democrats are not responsive to their needs voted for Trump in overwhelming numbers, those black voters would be considered insane for falling for “What do you have to lose?” Yet white voters who vote against their economic interests are considered to be making a rational decision. Ridiculous!

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 10:56am

Blacks (with very few exceptions) didn't vote for Trump because he's a racist (or at a minimum relies on racist appeals). It's the same reason that Jews didn't vote for Nazis. Members of groups don't vote for candidates or parties that scapegoat their own group. The policies that Clinton espoused since at least the early-1990s have harmed poor, working, and middle-class voters. The vast majority of people of color voted for her anyway because they recognized that Trump scapegoated people of color and would pursue economic policies that were likely as bad as, or worse, for them than the ones Clinton would support. Trump did not scapegoat white working-class voters. They also did not perceive him to be as condescending towards them as Clinton. In addition, Trump did offer them non-shaming explanations for their economic problems.

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 11:18am

This s double-speak on economics. Who was more likely to be better for blacks Clinton or Trump? Look at the current tax bill and tell me that blacks did not vote for their own economic interest when they vote for Clinton over Trump. You Hillary hatred makes you condemn Hillary’s economic plan without acknowledging what Trump would do. Stamp this in your brain, blacks voted for their economic interest. Trump represents economic disaster for blacks.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 11:29am

Minorities tend to do better under Democratic Presidents and suffer economically under Republican Presidents.

http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/under-democratic-presidents-minorities-make-economic-gains-and-so-do-whites

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 11:42am

I did not say that blacks were voting against their economic interests when they voted against Trump. Nor did I imply it. In fact, I believe just the opposite. I do think that poor, working, and middle-class Americans who voted for Hillary over Bernie were voting against their economic interests. Previously, I acknowledged your point that white working-class voters were voting against their interests when they voted for Trump over Hillary but Hillary has championed policies that have harmed all but the wealthy for the past 25 years and she did not campaign on economics. That is why she lost.

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 12:42pm

Blacks did not vote against their economic interests by voting for Hillary over Bernie. Bernie could not get single payer, one of his economic pillars to work in his own home state.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 12:45pm

We disagree. African-Americans are among the poorest Americans. Hillary's neo-liberal pro-finance policies, as pursued both by Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, increased the economic distance between blacks and whites. Bernie's pro-worker policies would have improved the circumstances for poor and working-class Americans who are disproportionately of color. Wall Street overwhelmingly supported Hillary over Bernie. Only 2.5% of Wall Street executives are African-American and well under 40% are women. Hillary's policies were best for these white men. http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-bank-diversity-2015-8 Red-lining banks helped finance Hillary's campaign. https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/17/hillary-clinton-black-con...

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 1:08pm

Hilarious. Bernie and BernieBros focus on white voters. Bernie.Never comes to black communities.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 1:56pm

Hill's not Bill nor Obama.

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 2:04pm

So-called Progressives were ready to destroy a Democratic candidate for Mayor in Atlanta in favor of a Conservative Republican because the Democrat was not pure enough. Even Shaun King found this a bridge too far. He feels that it is time to stop the “both parties are the same” nonsense.

https://thedailybanter.com/2017/12/shaun-king-stop-the-purity-politics/

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 9:58am

The parties are not the same and in any event, in the United States, we vote for individuals not parties. Still, the Democratic Party is rightly seen as far too close to Wall Street and the military-industrial complex.

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 11:20am

In the United States, voting for a Republican is voting against your economic interest.

Edit to add:

Read the link to Shaun King

Edit to add:

The more we exchange posts, the more I see that Ernie and Ernie Rios will never garner a majority of the black vote. If people don’t see the world as Bernie sees the world and reject his solutions, BernieBros are ready to burn things down. In Atlanta, Bernie’s pick for Mayor finished fifth. The result, BernieBros would rather see a Republican elected. BernieBros want their form of purity or they want scorched earth. They do not believe in compromise.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 12:01pm

Single payer means babies die:

Pence said that as Sen. Bernie Sanders campaigns for a single-payer healthcare system, Americans should look to what's happening in England.

"The heartbreaking story of the 11-month-old Charlie Gard in England is a story of single-payer" healthcare, said Pence. "I know you’ve covered that on this program. And it’s back in court today and frankly we breathe a prayer and the hope that the single-payer system in England will see its way clear to allow the family – the mother and the father – to be able to choose the greatest extent of life-saving treatment that’s available to their child."

Otherwise, warned Pence, they will be "submitted to a government program that says, 'no, we’re going to remove life support from your precious 11-month-old child' because the government has decided that the prospects of their life are such that they no longer warrant an investment in health services."

by NCD on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 4:56pm

Either Pence is grossly uninformed or is callously using the Charlie Gard tragedy to misinform the US public and attack Bernie.

In parallel with its single-payer healthcare system England has a pay- for- your -self system. Pence could have announced that he was making a contribution to Gard's family to pay for that life saving treatment and had urged any one of his enormously wealthy supporters to do the same.

This dual system was designed in 1946 by the Bernie -Sanders-type Nye Bevan when he created the UK system in 1946/47 in a difficult but constructive discussion with the docs.

I expect we could have a difficult but constructive discussion with Hal.

by Flavius on Sun, 12/10/2017 - 10:08pm

This is such a tough question - do we embrace a two-tier system where the wealthy can go outside government-compensated care? I'm inclined to say yes. Our public schools, colleges, and universities thrived for a century while competing with private academies. The counter-argument is that life or death medical decisions should never be decided by whether patients or their families have access to funds. My reply would be that a democratic government is well-positioned to decide what health care truly serves a medical purpose. If the people do not wish to keep a comatose patient alive but in a vegetative state, then that is a reasonable decision. Some wealthy patients might then survive on life support at their or their family's expense while less affluent ones might not. This seems less than ideal but is perhaps the least bad outcome.

by HSG on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 11:34am

The short answer is which will result in reducing unhappiness next year.

The longer answer can be found in Kenneth Arrow,Dec 1963 American Economic Review on the economics of medical care and Michael Foot's 1973 biography of Aneurin Bevan by Davis-Poynton-Vol 2, pages 102-218 on how it was done.

Which Goethe condensed to " Only Begin".

by Flavius on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 5:11pm

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