MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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US attacks Syrian air base with cruise missiles
By artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:36pm |WASHINGTON: The United States has attacked a Syrian air base with roughly 60 cruise missiles in response to a chemical weapons attack it...
URL:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1080481/middle-east
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by artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:39pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:42pm
CBS talking head right now is saying the reason this airfield was targeted is because it is known it is where the flight with the chemical weapons originated, and it is also known that it is not a regime command and control facility. So they are discussing: 1) how it is not a message about taking Assad out, but rather punishment for use of chemical weapons; 2) the danger of the missiles hitting chemical weapons that might be stored nearby.
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:51pm
On Russia: Barbara Starr on CNN TV is reporting right now from the Penatgon that:
the Russian military was informed of the strike before the strike and they were also informed of the time.
And there will be more forthcoming from the Pentagon very soon, including pictures.
On Trump: he made a short live statement from Florida a short while ago. If you missed it, you should be able to find the vid on most news sites now. It was obviously scripted and was obviously intentionally" presidential". He delivered it well, without any bluster, and at the end addressed the world as well as the country.
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:21pm
Barbara Starr is back and says that the Pentagon is giving continual briefings. She is now talking more about Russia and said they have been told that there were discussions with the Russians several times today and that the U.S. wanted to make sure any Russians that might be at the base were warned. Anderson Cooper said: but then wouldn't the Russians warn the Syrians? And Starr basically implied no ,as if Russia decided to go along with it.
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:25pm
If, and it is a big if, Russia was informed in advance and did not warn Assad, then my comment to you on another thread that Putin would be pissed if Assad is guilty comes in to play with reason to speculate that Putin is, in fact, pissed at Assad and is sending his own pissed off message to him. Interesting point, if true, about not warning Assad.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:51pm
Anybody except me thinking that this whole thing was orchestrated by Putin in the first place? Which is the bigger prize? The US or Syria?
1. Putin gets Assad to drop poison gas, trump does as he's told and sends missiles to air bases in Syria (after warning Russians to get out of the way).
2. Putin acts all put out with trump, and talks real mean about him.
3. Congresscritters are happy that trump acted like a big tough guy.
4. The same Congresscritters see this as proof that trump is not in the bag for Putin.
5. Oh, and Putin still has Syria anyway, plus he effectively took the shade away from trump
6. Nothing to see here, folks. Even Farid Zachariah said that when trump sent those missiles he (became America's President). >>> Barf!
Call me a cynic.
by CVille Dem on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 7:41am
Not the most crazy conspiracy theory I've ever seen, CVille, especially #4. That's what hits me right away about this, that he no longer looks in the bag for Putin. I find the whole thing about warning Russia ahead of time fishy, as I happened to catch the story breaking, turned on the TV, and that's one of the first things the Pentagon made it a point to tell reporters. This was before Trump's message was televised, the reporters all knew Russia had been notified.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:25am
I don't agree. I'm pretty open to conspiracy theories, but warning Russia seemed a hugely important thing to highlight on the merits - just to make clear that Trump wasn't insane enough to recklessly start a shooting war with Russia by taking out their personnel at the base. Perfectly reasonable to warn Russia, even Syria. The point was to downgrade their air support capacity. It wasn't to maximize casualties.
by Obey on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:34am
This is a good point The point was to downgrade their air support capacity. I'd even go beyond that. I am seeing a lot of articles questioning why flights still could leave from that air base and that all of his chemical weapons would not have been destroyed as if those were what they were trying to do, as if Trump's action is trying to get Assad to go. That's not what I saw from the getgo. This was just a slap saying: don't you dare use chemical weapons again. I see the whole backing up a red line thing as one of Trump's few core values, he hated that about Obama. Not doing anything of being amenable to negotiation or diplomacy when someone breaks an agreement and/or you make threat and the other party crosses the line, he sees that as the reason why "the world is such a mess" and also why U.S.A. is no longer #1.
Trump really is vehemently anti-quagmire, he is always going to want simple and very limited actions. No big goals, just project strength. It's the whole "art of the deal" thing. Some people call that being a bully. Some people used to say carry a big stick.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:49am
People are still dying by bombing. Syrian refugees are still banned.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:48am
Precisely. He doesn't want to save Syrians. He just thinks countries at war shouldn't be able to use chemical weapons on little babies. Because: he saw the pictures of what that looks like.
Makes me think smart activists that want to change his opinion on something should get pictures with whatever it is horribly affecting little babies, and then, because one can't get those pictures on his desk, make sure Fox News makes a big deal about it.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:56am
Ha. I love the articles describing staffers advising briefers that Trump is a "visual" learner. Less text, more picture books. I laugh. But then I see Brian Williams and Fareed Zakaria all excited about the pretty exploding bombs.
Who are the fucking short-attention-span impulsive morans in this story...?
by Obey on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:28pm
Got to say I've always been a mite uncomfortable with our national anthem. But one thing it does do is remind you that shock and awe really does work on a lot of people.
To be fair to the talking heads, they did the same thing when George Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton lobbed missles. Lots of people of all kinds of persuasions think they prevent war. I especially recall GOP Congresspersons getting all het up with Bill Clinton "spending" down all our missiles just to project his own strength, they wanted to save them to project a GOP president's strength, I guessed.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:34pm
On our anthem, I feel it behooves to remember that it was written when we were not top dog. It's the righteous underdog meme overall.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:36pm
Perhaps - we're still playing the righteous underdog, absurd as it is. We were pretty entrenched and uppity by1812, after the Louisiana Purchase and stealing most Indian Territory in the Southeast so as to claim everything west to the Pacific. The war did nothing to reverse that uppitiness aside from let us know Canada was a bridge too far, literally. BTW, I think the song was written in aa battle *after* peace had already been signed in Ghent (like New Orleans), but I may have the timing off. Anyway, the Brits were done, and
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 1:42pm
Telegraph headline 5 hours ago:
"Syrian warplanes take off once again from air base bombed by US Tomahawks"
Sure, we were out to "downgrade their air support capacity", but "Observers had reported the base had been badly destroyed by the 1,000lb warheads and that several planes and a runway had been put out of service. However it is thought that an advance warning given by the US to Russia allowed Syria enough time to remove many of its aircraft before the raid. "
So what's the real skinny? A slap saying "don't do this again, we mean it, man...."? I don't buy it. I think it was done to make Trump look good, distract from Russiagate. The whole performance was too pat and works out to all gain, 0 loss for Putin, Assad & Trump. (not like it encouraged rebels in any way)
Still have to reconcile with Trump's initial response, but he's a slow learner and largely goes unscripted, or maybe they wanted him to have that "learning" moment where he's actually mulling over a response. Completely unbelievable given his M.O., but I won't say I've got all the pieces explained to a T.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:53am
I think it was done to make Trump look good.
Yes of course, BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF HIS RAISON D'ETRE. AND HIS BELIEFS ABOUT THE U.S. That's what he's said from the getgo: believes U.S. foreign policy should be: look strong.
MY POINT: be careful in your conspiracizing not to get carried away by
BushTrump Derangement Syndrome. Team Trump is still the gang who can't shoot straight, can't even figure out how to get along with a Republican Congress, remember? Can't be evil geniuses and stupid idiots at the same time.Putin's another story, I'd be open to any argument that has Team Trump being gamed by Team Putin.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:20pm
Ah thanks. ok. Was looking around for a credible source on this kind of thing.
by Obey on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:22pm
Tonight I agree with Trump. As I did with every military action the country has initiated since I was old enough to read the papers.
Conversely, if Trump had done nothing I would also have approved. Intellectually. Whereas my gut reaction was
the opposite
by Flavius on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 11:34pm
What is the end point? From what I understand there are multiple warring factions. If Assad goes, there will still be chaos. I don't see a good outcome no matter what the military does. Chemical weapons are evil, but Syrians are still dead by an Assad directed bullet or a Russian bomb.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 12:08am
I haven't been following Syria closely but the end-point seemed pretty clear to me. the US has a priority ranking of outcomes to *avoid * in Syria:
- Worst case scenario ISIS takes over
- Second worst scenario Assad reestablishes power with Russian support bringing the country back to Russian sphere of influence.
- Third worst scenario - anarchy endures and no one establishes stable power and Syria stays a failed state
- Best case scenario - pro-western opposition miraculously win.
I.e. the aim is now to avoid the 1st and 2nd scenarios, irrespective of the cost on civilian population. And that aim has bipartisan support.
But I'm open to being corrected on this view of the situation.
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 5:59am
If you can do some good,do it.
Trump somewhat increased the odds against Syria using chemical weapons again. And put a finger on the scale against any one else doing so.
I plead guilty to being overly convinced by the talking heads´ claim there´s a fragile consensus against chemical warfare. Whatever bad stuff continues , it´s a good thing to reinforce that.
by Flavius on Sun, 04/09/2017 - 12:25am
There is no military solution to Syria, Assad, the myriad of Syrian rebel groups and the Sunni insurgency most recently represented by ISIS. Only diplomatic. And last week, Haley and Tillerson were OK with Assad staying.
Trump is cutting and dismissing diplomacy, the State Department and the UN, and hugely increasing the military.
At the same time he is 'saving Syrian lives' with missiles, he is branding Syrian refugees as terrorists. They don't know what they are doing.
by NCD on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 12:35am
Sounds like you didn't listen to Trump's statement, you should to criticize correctly.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:22am
There you have it - wars increase popularity. The Yemen raid was a washout, but Syria will be where Trump finds his mojo and assures us he's not beholden to Putin. Does Jared have that Hollywood guy on this script? Undiubtedly -America may like football, but it *loves* a good war with pageantry and a protecting-the-underdog subtext. Bread and circuses indeed - Rax Americana. (What, no "wagging the dog" comments yet? Liberals have becime so trusting on this age of fake news)
Let's go for the obvious - since Assad was already able to bomb civilians with a sufficient-if-not-believable denial, and this attack served no military or real rebel control purpose, but had the guaranteed effect of rousing and pissing off the international community, why would Assad do this? I may be a dumb cracker, but...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 1:22am
See my comment above. I think this is more than wagging the dog. I think it is the Bear with the dog in his mouth, and the dog a willing "victim."
by CVille Dem on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 7:47am
Re: There you have it - wars increase popularity Not exactly in this case:
Pew April 5-11 poll: By a wide margin (58% to 36%), Americans approve of the U.S. missile strikes against Syria in response to reports of the use of chemical weapons by Bashar al-Assad’s government. By a comparable margin (61% to 32%), the public says that Donald Trump does not have a clear plan for dealing with the situation in Syria.
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/13/2017 - 2:25am
And if Hillary's no-fly zones were going to cause WWIII, surely this attack will bring on the Apocalypse & Second Coming, amirite? Amirite!!!??!!!
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 5:41am
Wait, are you upset at Trump for coming around to Hillary's way of thinking?
Just can't win with you, can he
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 7:37am
I talked about no-fly zones, not Sarin attacks, or Tomahawk attacks on air bases, but I understand they're nearly the same thing in modern vernacular...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 7:49am
Well that maybe, but mainly Hillary saying yesterday that the US should take out Assad's airfields...
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:33am
Rather, isn't it Obama's way of thinking he's come around to, this time backing up the "red line"threat that Assad shouldn't cross?
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:30am
Obama Hillary Trump and Bill Kristol. When everyone comes to the same conclusion, what could possibly go wrong.
Except Obama backed down from acting on his threats, no?
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:35am
Except Obama backed down from acting on his threats, no?
Precisely. I've heard Trump criticize this more than once.Because: macho presidents of U.S.A. #1 just don't do that, threaten and not back it up. I can imagine Trump is very very comfortable with his decision, it goes to his core about what's happened to the U.S.'s reputation.
Furthermore, I'd suggest he probably thinks that if presidents don't stand behind such threats, that is what will involve them in wars, peacekeeping and such. He sort of referred to this in his statement after the attack, he talked about the refugees causing havoc allover the world. As if making sure that people follow international rules of war will make for no refugees. Simplistic thinking, yes, but there it is.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:52am
Well the situation has changed too. Obama backed down on attacking Assad because the mutual enemy - Isis - was stronger back then, and apparently regarded as the greater evil. Now Isis is weaker, so we can go back to slapping Assad around.
Anyway, a possible consideration
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:57am
Also it comes to mind, it says this for him: we are watching all of you in Syria, we know what Assad just did, and that he was testing whether we are paying attention, we're not an idiot just like ISIS just said.
Cavaet that I don't think he thought of this himself. Rather, he asked for response plans and somebody came up with one that they knew would fit what he would like to project to the area and the world precisely.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:03am
So when Isis says you are an idiot, you prove them WRONG by destroying the air support capacity of Isis' worst enemy near the front lines where they are needed?
*inserts tears-of-laughter emoji*
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:10am
Just saw Spencer Ackerman's tweet:
Interesting angle.
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:41am
He gave hints Weds at the press conference with King Abdullah, I happened to hear them live; quotes from Buzzfeed
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:36am
Attempting to enforce a no-fly zone as Hillary urged would have been far more provocative and likely to embroil us in a military conflict with Russia than what Trump did last night as it would have required us to stop Russian planes from using Syrian air space. By some accounts, Trump did advise Russia of the missile launches and has not threatened to take any actions against Russia specifically.
Not defending Trump but pointing out false equivalency.
by HSG on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:10am
Very mixed feelings. I haven't seen the evidence that Assad poisoned his own people but I tend to think if the NYT, Washington Post, and Guardian are all convinced he did it that he probably did. Probably that's very stupid of me in light of media cheerleading the Iraq War based on wholly bogus rationale and the absence of convincing evidence that Assad used Sarin in 2013. Indeed the two American papers have been insisting for years that he did. Even worse, the Post excoriated Obama throughout his second term for refusing to embroil us in yet another unwinnable, hyper-expensive, and counterproductive war.
At this time, our attack seems to have been measured and in proportion - here's hoping there were no civilian casualties. But seeing the jingoistic CNN coverage of the Tomahawk missiles being launched sickened me.
Addendum: One hope may be gone. Syria is claiming that four children were killed by US strike. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-us-air-strike-...
by HSG on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:14am
I'd like to add on the "poisoning of his own people" thing, I don't think Assad has a single qualm about fighting terror with terror, he's shown that in many other ways that he's willing to do anything, anything to win. And terror is exactly what a small chemical weapons attack effects, simply because it frightens many people more than conventional weapons. And Trump feels this, and he strongly repeated his stance against all kinds of terrorism in his statement. To me, all of this rules of war thing is absurd, war is terrorizing with rules or not, some absurd lines are made to define what is terror and what is not. But there it is and the U.N. and a lot of other people agree: play by the rules and war is O.K.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:24am
Republicans who praise Trump for the strike did not want to authorize Obama to strike Syria
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/republicans-strike-syria-trump_us_58...
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:41am
I've got CNN on now and I heard some of them complaining that he should have gotten authorization. Don't know which ones, sorry, but they did have a "R" on the banner.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:44am
Trump cares deeply about the safety of Syrian civilians. He just wants to block refugees from finding safety in the United States.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-syria-humanitarian-refugees_us...?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:48am
Yes. He doesn't see any hypocrisy in this. He thinks if the rules of war are followed, people will stay home where they belong, and even fight for their country.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:18am
I am thinking I should add that the thought pattern is probably this: most good guys stay home and fight for their country, and the bad hombres and terrorists and wimps who blame the West for their problems run away and try to get into a Western country.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 4:24pm
"should have gotten authorization" is just the necessary throatclearing that comes before any nuanced reflective support of an electoral representative, who nevertheless asserts independent authority governing said subject matter, while clearly relieved they don't have to make that decision and can at a later date opportunistically criticize it as foolish.
I don't think one can read too much into that
by Obey on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 8:53am
offered without comment, along lines of "simplistic thinking"
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 9:21am
There does not appear to be a faction that is any better than Assad? What happens if they come to power? Assad is fighting to the death because he knows that if he loses, he and his supporters will be slaughtered.
Edit to add:
ABC is saying that garter Trump warned Russia, Russia warned Syria. Syrians moved some equipment.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/eyewitness-syrian-military-anticipat...
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 10:56am
Syria nerve agent attack: why it made sense to Assad @ TheGuardian.com, April 7
money quote:
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 3:35pm
Iranian State News Agency: (res ipsa loquitor)
US aggression will never impact axis of resistance: Hezbollah
Syrian Presidency: US aggression, a reckless, irresponsible act
Putin: US 'act of aggression' damages relations with Moscow
Iran strongly condemns US missile attack on Syria
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - Foreign Ministry spokesman Bahram Qasemi said on Friday that Iran strongly condemns US missile attack on Syrian airfield in response to the alleged use of chemical weapons in Khan Shaykhun near Idleb.
US strike on Syria means attacking powers fighting terrorism: Assad advisor
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - Political and media adviser to the Syrian President Bashar Assad said on Friday that US airstrike on Shayrat Airfield amounts to attacking the powers engaged in fighting against terrorism.
UN Security Council meeting ends with casting no vote
Tehran, April 6, IRNA – The emergency meeting of the United Nations (UN) Security Council ended on Wednesday without voting for the Western countries’ plan to condemn Syria for its alleged use of chemical weapons in Khan Shaykhun near Idleb.
Swedish UN envoy concerned over US missile attack on Syria
New York, April 7, IRNA - The Permanent Representative of Sweden to the United Nations Olof Skoog expressed concern over US missile attack on Syrian airfield comparing it with the American and UK governments excuses and lies about weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) in Iraq.
Former US Congressman urges Iran, US cooperation to resolves regional conflicts
London, April 7, IRNA - Dennis John Kucinich, former US Congressman believes Iran and US cooperation could resolve regional conflicts, stressing that the two countries should put their differences aside.
Senior cleric: US missile attack on Syria cover-up of supporting terrorists
Tehran, April 7, IRNA – A senior cleric said here on Friday that the recent US missile attack on Syria was a cover-up of US efforts to safeguard terrorists in this Arab country.
Zarif: Time to stop hype and cover-ups
Tehran, April 7, IRNA – In reaction to the recent US attack on a Syrian Army airfield, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said it's time to stop hype and cover-ups.
Spokesman rejects reports on exit of Iranian diplomats from Syria
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - Foreign Ministry spokesman Bahram Qasemi dismissed reports on exit of Iranian diplomats from Syria following the US missile attack on this Arab country
US attack shows defeat of US policies in region: MP
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - Recent US attack against a Syrian airbase shows the defeat of this arrogant power’s policies in the region and the world, Chairman of Iran’s Majlis (parliament) National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said on Frida
UN Secretary-General urges restraint in Syria to avoid more suffering
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - UN Secretary- General António Guterres on Friday appealed to parties involved in the Syrian conflict for restraint to avoid adding to the suffering of Syria's people.
Iran’s role in resolving Syrian crisis is commendable: Ex-ambassador
London, April 7, IRNA - Peter Ford, former UK ambassador in Damascus slams British policy towards Syria and believes that Iran’s role in resolving Syrian crisis is commendable.
EU says Syria crisis has no military solution
US missile attack on Syria detrimental to security of region, world: Senior official
Tehran, April 7, IRNA - Senior advisor to Majlis speaker Hossein Amir-Abdollahian said on Friday that the US military attack against Syria is detrimental to the security of the region and the world.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 3:56pm
P.S. The only American I found quoted was the Dennis Kucinich piece.
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 4:04pm
Arab News:
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain voice support for US missile strike on Syria
Russia announces retaliatory steps after US strikes Syrian airbase
Trump strikes Syria after ‘chemical’ attack
Some Syrians change social media profile pictures to Trump after strike
International leaders react to the US strike on Syria
Syria: US involvement since 2011
US strikes on Syrian base: what we know
In abrupt shift on Syria, Trump turns to military advisers
EU Parliament head bans top Syrian official after attack: document
Op-Ed: Iran linked to every Middle East war
Op-Ed: As Syria burns, the UN Security Council collapses into farce
Today's print edition photo, "Are You Listening, Mr. Assad?"
by artappraiser on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 4:45pm
The cable news idiots are praising Trump for shelling. They ignore the fact that there is no end game. They learned nothing from Iraq.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cable-news-trump-syria-war-monger_us...
Edit to add:
As noted in the News section Brian Williams loved the phallic imagery of the rockets.
http://www.news1130.com/2017/04/07/brian-williams-calls-images-of-us-mis...
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 04/07/2017 - 7:27pm
They love war. Eveyrone wants to be a war journalist, and politicians want yo be a war president. And the people get that rush up their legs when we go to war and they can watch those late night clips of bombs bursting in air. We're suckers for political jingoism. I'm just surprised Trump got us here in 90 days, but not that surprised - I said several weeks ago a war was coming to distract from his failures at home along with Russian investigations. The weasel's cornered and it's going to fight. Still, he should have waited till Memorial Day if not the 4th. Baseball's still in spring training and the lilacs haven't bloomed.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 7:09am
The area that suffered the gas attack is now being bombed by Russia/Syria. What was gained by the multi-million dollar missile attack?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/08/middleeast/syria-strikes-russia-donald-tru...
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 10:03am
Time & distraction, bread & circuses. Good cop, bad cop. I've seen this movie. It ends like "Bad Lieutenant" or "Internal Affairs"
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 10:09am
What was gained? Trump got to show that he is not in the bag for Russia. Plus it is yet another distraction. The REAL question is this: WHO gained? Nobody but Trump, IMOP
by CVille Dem on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 10:32am
I never watched "Wag the Dog", I'll have to make time this weekend. Trump warned Russia. The chemical weapons were not targeted. Syrians refugees are still blocked.
General McMaster used a Middle East trip to form a tighter bond with President Jared Kushner. The media got to cheer bombs falling. Trump did get to look Presidential.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:02am
Trump’s Troll Army Isn’t Ready for War in Syria
The alt-right crowd breaks with the president.
@ Politico.com, April 07, 2017
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:26am
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 12:30am
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 1:41am
Spencer Ackerman suggests Putin is not in Syria to fight ISIS, that that is a lie that Trump swallowed:
He refers to "story soon", that's now @ The Guardian, here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/07/us-russia-relations-syria-military-strikes-putin-trump
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 2:22am
I don't think Putin has a one or the other strategy in Syria. It's both with propping up Assad as the priority. He's following the old strategy that the US has been attempting to move beyond for many years. He wants to prop up a Russia allied dictator to control the country and doesn't care much how Assad does it. He wants to maintain his sole naval base in the Mediterranean. Putin has no love of muslim terrorists as he has his own problems with them in Russia. Once Assad has more control of the country Putin will want him to take out any terrorist organizations there, ISIS, Al-qaeda, etc.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 3:10am
Thanks for the link AA.
A bit disappointed by that story. Didn't see much of an argument that there is a forced choice between ISIS war and Assad war. The refusal of a deconfliction channel is all that is at play, and on Ackerman's own account it constitutes more of a propaganda tool one way or another than a vital tool of cooperation. Apart from the risk of "friendly" fire incidents that could escalate. But the Trump administration doesn't seem inclined, much like Obama, to commit one way or another to destroying Assad or ISIS. Rather the implicit policy seems to be to weaken both and hope for a less unpalatable void filler.
Or am I missing something?
by Obey on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 5:29am
Yeah after seeing the article, it just seems to be Ackerman's opinion based on not much but his opinion of how things work.
And from all my past reading, I do think Putin despises radical Islam to a fault. Yes of course he has all kinds of ulterior motives in Syria, but still, I doubt he would put them above fighting ISIS. He just wants to do it working with Assad, works for him.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:33am
Putin's building a cross-Black Sea, Middle East, Aegean, Adriatic and Mediterranean sphere of influence. He just cares he has some reason to stay. Libya's possibly the most dangerous even though all eyes are on Syria. I'm also more worried about Turkey than Syria - Syria's been isolated for decades, while Turkey's having a disruptive fallout on the EU. Even the immigrant problem was more about Turkey releasing them across the Aegean than Assad.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 7:16am
Haven't quite figured this out yet, but so far seems to me Turkey is a mess and very much a wild card in this whole situation. Haven't investigated what they've been doing.
by artappraiser on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:35am
See my latest post. I don't think Turkey will be a major operator, but Erdogan will consolidate internal control and largely take Turkey out of the alliance - too damaged with Putin to share info with anyway.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 04/08/2017 - 11:41am