MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Kamala Harris is married to a white man.
Later, after explaining that he prefers the word “ethnicity” to “race,” Matthews asked the candidate, given the racism she was subject to as a child from the parents of her friends, “How did you come out of that and not have hatred towards white people generally?”
Whether it was intentional or not, those words directly echoed former Fox News host Glenn Beck’s assertion in 2009 that President Barack Obama had a “deep-seated hatred of white people.”
Comments
Chris "She makes want to close my legs like Nurse Ratched" Matthews is still doing news?
Must be a shortage of assisted living slots these days. Or else the news rooms have cut back so bad they're competing with Wal-Mart for senior greeters.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 7:59am
Biden said “My times up”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-my-time-is-up_n_5d159538e4b07f6ca57af608
We will see if he was accurate.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 8:19am
I think he was quoting himself from 1982, but hard to tell.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 8:49am
That's nice.
Btw Beck did some really weird stuff on his website to make up for this.
by Orion on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 9:26am
Jason Johnson on Twitter
Moderators, I would like to report a murder : White male, 70's answers to Uncle Joe .... Suspect still on stage....#DemDebate
3,675
9:21 PM - Jun 27, 2019
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 10:47am
Indication that there was poor prep
Yamiche Alcindor
NEW: I asked @SymoneDSanders, senior advisor to @JoeBiden, what Biden believes the role of the federal govt should have been on busing and integration. Her response: "On that specific question, I haven’t asked him so I can’t tell you that specific question."
570
10:20 PM - Jun 27, 2019
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 11:12am
My God, another election, more relitigating long ago bullshit. Some of the basic issues are I've moved to lower commute times to chosen schools, have sometimes gone to great trouble to find schools that work out. For black and white these apply, plus add the imbalance of resources, teachers and poorly equipped schools along with various racism and hostility and redlining thrown in. Now, what of this does/did busing cure, what doesn't/didn't it, what does/did it make worse? Somehow it seems a pretty imperfect tool to rest fixing all of Civil Rights era education on - like does putting kids on buses inherently fix everything? Only in the US? Or the South only? Or...?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 12:02pm
The long ago bullshit is a living memory for Kamala Harris and others. It is a real hurt. Buttigieg was able to admit that he didn’t get the job done in integrating the South Bend police department. Joe Biden and his team gave no thought to crafting a response to a question that he should have expected. The impression that I am left with is that Biden is not ready to face Trump in a debate. “My time’s up” is a pathetic response.
Biden has black supporters like the mayor of Atlanta. Hillary had black supporters. There was a division between black leaders who supported Hillary over Obama. Clyburn supported Hillary until the wind changed and he supported Obama. Welcome to politics.
Harris will have to deal with her actions as a DA.
Biden is not ready for prime time.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 12:36pm
Police brutality is present day bullshit. Busing is historic bullshit - in general 40 years or more.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 2:14pm
Could you elaborate on this?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/30/2019 - 12:09pm
No.
1) it's historical and we already wasted enough time on it
2) whatever I say you'll just try to cram into your "A only, not B, not C" framing.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/30/2019 - 1:24pm
The commute time argument was mostly a red herring. Whites didn't just object to their children being bussed to majority black schools. They were just as adamant that black children not be integrated into their white schools. They really didn't care if the black students were bussed with long or short travel times nor did they care if the black families thought the travel times were worth attending a higher quality school. They just didn't want black students in their white schools.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 12:39pm
The way I remember it is that some people just didn't want kids from poor ghetto inner city neighborhoods integrated into the culture of low crime suburban like neighborhoods with higher quality schools they built after their parents had basically climbed the ladder and left behind a sort of ghetto themselves. Yes there was a pure racist group but there was also other kinds of tribalists.
This is why the concurrent real estate phenomenon of red-lining against black families trying to move in complicates. There were the people who didn't want black families of any class living next to them. But there were also those who wouldn't care if it were a black middle class family with the same values that didn't want their white kids bussed to bad schools in bad neighborhoods and poor black kids bussed to the schools in better neighborhoods.
The latter were the people that politicians like Joe were trying to placate. They wanted "neighborhood" schools, and neighborhood rules, and kids to grow up not urbanized and street wise but to have protected and idyllic childhoods.
Those that turned to parochial schools or other kinds of private schools to avoid the busing out to another neighborhood. Or they would just sell the house and buy another across the city line and into the suburbs themselves. It encouraged "white flight" and that was part of the problem that some politicians sympathetic to integration saw. Busing absolutely exacerbated white flight, including from whites that might not necessarily be so racist, they just wanted neighborhood schools and not to have their children in an urban world.
There were two kinds of tribalism involved. One very racist, the other more class and cultural. Within the context of this still being relatively recent, the post war suburban-like developments of "own the American dream" where you had your own little house and yard and car in driveway and your kids could walk to school. That was still relatively new, the working class had only relatively recently made it to that point and they didn't want to give it up to be dragged back to the inner city.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 1:39pm
True, there was more than one reason. We can't know what percentage of people held what views but I think we can agree that there was more racism then than now. Biden has always been a moderate and a weather vane. So long as the racists were willing to cloak their racism with claims about children's travel time he was willing to work with them and for them.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 2:28pm
I spent 3 months in LA commuting by bus about 1:15-1:30 each way - it was exhausting, and these were city buses, not crazy like school buses - in the end I moved out of a place I quite liked because I didn't find it sustainable. When we start talking about kindergarten-age kids it's much more an issue - I'd be pretty reluctant to send my kids that far away every day - how much does that lower my or my wife's interaction with them? Obviously there was much more to the issue than commute times, as I noted above, but overall part of the goal was access to resources, and part was more an issue of redlining in housing itself, rather than school districts. In any case, there were *some* criticisms even by supporters that they didn't see any real benefits in studies. It may have helped push resource sharing and improved some baseline integration/copled some of the more over-the-top segregation and inequaliy practices, Boston provides a hyper-caricature for how it went in other places, but for various reasons most busing AFAIK died out by the end of the 90's, including thru some efforts by black leaders. For such a sacrosanct inarguably wonderful approach, you'd think it was common practice still.
One thing I noticed in a writeup of METCO, a program busing a few black kids to white suburban schools, is it seemed useful to bus/bring white parents in to see black neighborhoods so they'd better understand many of them as roughly normal equivalents to suburban neighborhoods (obviously not every day...)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation_busing
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:06pm
I'm not claiming busing was a great solution. Nor does pointing out it ended prove that it was bad. All I'm saying is the commute argument was mostly insincere:
I'm not going to spend a lot of time relitigating this. But as I remember it one complaint was whites largely exaggerating the amount of the commute time. I did a quick search on that but found no info. It seems to me you're doing the same thing now. I, as many who lived in rural areas, was bused to my totally white school. No one thought my 40 minute bus ride twice a day was extraordinary.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:36pm
Toledo parents who send their children to private schools want the city to pay for the busing
https://www.toledoblade.com/local/education/2019/02/25/parents-urge-sylv...
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:38pm
Some districts spend $5k per kid per year, just so we know what we're discussing.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:53pm
They are not sending their children to public schools, just so we know what we are talking about. If you want to buy Benz, buy it. Don’t ask me to foot the bill.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 4:58pm
My neighbor went to a Catholic school and there was no bus service for him to that school. When he was an older teen he could walk to the nearest public school to get on the bus but it was too far for younger teens/pre-teens. I graduated in 76 so I don't know what it's like there now or if that was common nation wide.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 5:08pm
People (Bernie) are asking to forgive all student loans, incl private schools. People ask a lot of stuff - "doesn't hurt to ask"
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 5:59pm
40 mins is where it starts to be a lot, tho if you're in the boonies, that may be your fate. Some people do the same for their orep school, et al, but it has some diminishing returns, esp if you cant read or study in the bus - then it's a lot of brain numbing per day.
[PS - your quote isn't exactly a citation, hard to say who said it, how much weight they carry for what reason... not denying there were racists, of course]
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 4:40pm
To understand what happened and how Biden was trying to explain himself and others at the time (yes, extremely poorly), one needs to be reminded of the big picture: after the Civil Rights initial movement, the end goal is trying to effect integration of society, a social engineering project. From the view of some integrationist congresspeople, busing wasn't working out well in every area as to that goal. Rather, in some areas, parents were so angry that their kids were going to be the sacrificial lambs who had to be bused to bad neighborhoods to improve those schools, it backfired, that in some areas, like Boston, they were becoming more prejudiced, not less. So like he was saying, they backed down from it being federal.
It's not like the initial main goal was really to improve bad inner city schools! Theory, cluelessly, trying to sell that schools were equal quality! Rather, it was a kumbaya effort to get little kids to grow up mixing with others so that did not become prejudiced. Parent protests were the ones who brought up: hey, you're trying to force my kid to go to a shitty school by bus when the one down the block is a good one. If there had not been redlining and there already were black parents in the area, they would be on the protest lines too. I.E., hey I just got out of the ghetto and now you want to send my kid back down there.
Yes, of course there were just racially bigoted parents too, it doesn't need to be said. But the point is that it backfired bigly as far as the integration goal was concerned, with white flight to the suburbs in places like Milwaukee, my hometown. To this day.
This is all Moynihan type report stuff, i.e., what well meaning integrationist things backfired. The whole issue has always interested me, as I believe strongly that it's very hard for government to affect culture change, but it's something popular culture can actually do much better. Hence the right wing fight against "Hollywood values", they fight that because they know that's what can change people's hearts and minds.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 7:03pm
You got the cases of students being bused past each other from one shitty school to another, color stuff didn't always add up - and yes, the integration part got lost (partly but not completely because whites in Boston and elsewhere fought hard to make it seem just about transportation, but you can't separate issues that easily)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/29/2019 - 1:45am
Race, not economics is the basis for white flight. Ethnic minorities are willing to Sahara space with whites. Whites are tribal and take flight.
https://phys.org/news/2018-04-ties-persistence-white-flight-socioeconomic.html
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:00pm
I once had a friend, an Econ professor, tell me he wanted to model something like environmental changes over time using 2 variables. I laughed at him - little in life can be reduced to a single factor, except to use for freshmen Econ students (and lead them down a foolish path).
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:17pm
Abstract
Scholars have continued to debate the extent to which white flight remains racially motivated or, in contrast, the result of socioeconomic concerns that proxy locations of minority residence. Using 1990–2010 census data, this study contributes to this debate by re-examining white flight in a sample of both poor and middle-class suburban neighborhoods. Findings fail to provide evidence in support of the racial proxy hypothesis. To the contrary, for neighborhoods with a larger non-white presence, white flight is instead more likely in middle-class as opposed to poorer neighborhoods. These results not only confirm the continued salience of race for white flight, but also suggest that racial white flight may be motivated to an even greater extent in middle-class, suburban neighborhoods. Theoretically, these findings point to the decoupling of economic and racial residential integration, as white flight may persist for groups even despite higher levels of socioeconomic attainment.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X17305422?via%...
I guess freshman Econ students self publish these days
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:35pm
I guess that middle class whites can afford flight and lower class whites can less afford it didn't dawn on these brainiacs. Or that middle class whites would be more likely to afford private schools that fit their white vision.
Breaking news: *upper class whites* are even more likely than *middle class whites* to spend money solving undesired situations. This whiteness is even rubbing off on *upper class blacks*, one of whom was recently revealed to have given a building to a college to get his kid accepted. Talk about appropriation.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 3:50pm
So you agree that white flight is racially based? They would move if the one wealthy black guy you mentioned tipped the neighborhood to the 25% limit?
Apples. Whites moved when ethnic minorities reached a certain level.
Oranges. Black guy tries to get his child into an upper tier college.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/28/2019 - 5:07pm
the stable genius weighs in on the busing issue:
from Trump’s apparent ignorance of basic political terms is on full display overseas by Aaron Blake @ The Fix @ WashingtonPost.com, June 29
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/29/2019 - 4:24pm
I thought it was the Caravan busing illegal immigrants to school. Hammer/glove vs hammer/sickle. We'll be hearing exciting tgings abiut this.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/29/2019 - 5:17pm
Daniel Dale-formerly of the Toronto Star and popular volunteer live tweeter of Trump rallies "so you don't have to watch", in doing his new job @ CNN, has written a
Fact check: Kamala Harris was correct on integration in Berkeley, school district confirms, June 29.
I have found Daniel to be a detail oriented researcher and fact-based reporter, to the point of obsessiveness. The article therefore has a lot of detail on de-segregation in Berkeley during that period. And I think this one point among many that he makes, is a very good one (my bold):
All sort of synchs with what we have discussed here. If there were choices of neighborhood schools vs. sending kids across town: a different thing with a lot more discord involved. In Harris' case, there was only one high school and you either used it or moved out of town.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/29/2019 - 5:33pm
Dueling war room generals. Amateur spinmeisters might judge amongst themselves:
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/30/2019 - 5:19pm
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 10:14am
The responses to Braun were negative. It seems like Braun is classified as one of the people who need to pass the torch.
Edit to add:
Biden made a comment that fell flat at a fundraising event in Seattle
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/30/politics/joe-biden-pushback-gay-rights-waiter-comment-seattle/index.html
If people have to clean after he talks, he may not be ready to face Trump one-on-one.
Edit to add Cory Booker on Biden
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cory-booker-joe-biden-race_n_5d192a82e4b082e5536b51fe
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 10:44am
The responses to Braun were negative.
Where?
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:18pm
The initial responses to the Igor Bobic tweet we’re all negative
@igorbobic
Correction: Joe told on Joe. Kamala just happened to point it out.
@sahilkapur
No tell me about Bernie Sanders and JOE bidens ambition or is ambition only bad for women. This is disgusting.
@sahilkapur
I'm getting really sick and tired of individuals of past generations still living in the past. With all due respect to Carol Moseley Braun and Joe Biden, the (D) party needs to be headed by a new generation with a new standard of what's okay and what's not.
etc.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:56pm
With all due respect to the new know-it-all generations, I'm pretty tired of newbies declaring emphatically and decisively what we *need* to do. The Veruca Salt approach never quite had legs, despite the book and movies' popularity. Bargaining, wheedling, hoping, pressuring, boycotting, persuading, bludgeoning, etc. -various multi-approaches to seeking and implementing change.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 1:25pm
Ok, didn't know what you meant, as I didn't see anyone criticizing Braun in any articles for stating her opinion, they were criticizing Biden. I don't normally look at most replies to news tweets unless there's a ton of them, then I might just to check what is going on with that. They are not a wise use of reading time in most cases. It tells you nothing as they could even be bots. If someone or something of import pipes up with a reply to a tweet, eventually someone retweets it.
Edit to add: Plus an article like that gets tweeted by many people and the replies will differ depending on opinions of the circle of people who follow that person. I just used the tweet I first saw and I saw that one because it was retweeted by someone I follow, not cause I follow Bobic, I don't. Looking at his bio., my guess would be his followers were mostly fans of his reporting at HuffPo. This is actually the first time I saw his name.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:20pm
I simply noted the responses to the tweet.
The real issue is how many times are we going to have to Biden’splain Biden’s words?
If Biden is the winner, I will vote and campaign for him. The alternative is more of an authoritarian government. I worry that he is not ready to face Trump.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:18pm
I like to follow what all the players in each party are doing in reaction to something like this that becomes a point of contention. It's called playing politics and I like to analyze what they are all up to. I.
E., there's obviously a split between age groups developing on this one....
I don't like to preach right or wrong, black or white, who the fuck cares what my personal opinion is on the issue, I am just somebody anonymous on the internet.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:24pm
Come on, You take positions on Fukuyama, cultural appropriation, tribes, etc.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 10:29pm
You confuse interest and non-allegiance for "positions". She does art for a living - art is all about appropriation (using one lens, there are many). Saying no appropriation is saying "don't breath".
Tribes - humans run the spectrum from fully independent to fully enmeshed in a tribe. Families are tribes, political parties are tribes, hobbies and ethnic groups and religions and nationalities are tribes. Being progressive is kinda moving outside your tribes, but taking care about people still in tribes (depending how offensive those tribes are).
Fukuyama largely said US politics has been defined by certain tribes as victims who need help, and in the last 20 years whites (nationalists, christians, rural...) have adopted that victim framing as *whites* (the South's framing always included bias against the South, so didn't travel well - now it's the Great White Brotherhood saving party and religion and jobs and culture from the Progressive and unwashed immigrants at the gates). But being Progressive doesn't mean digging into another victimhood, another tribe - it's understanding the landscape and expanding open ideals.
And Fukuyama is just one lens. There are certainly many other valuable ones if we don't turn myopic, pick and choose those that conform to our made up minds.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 1:55am
You confuse interest and non-allegiance for "positions"
You pegged it! This is why I sometimes rail that he is preaching. As if everyone anonymous has to declare their allegiance to positions for some reason.
The maddening thing about it is that this leads to is the straw man thing.He doesn't seem to get the "college seminar model" most of us here are looking for. I.E., "what is Fukuyama trying to say here? It interests me" or "what is Biden trying to say here?" or "what are the Russian bots trying to accomplish here?" Rmrd's correspondents are not taking a position, so he has to turn them into someone who is doing so. All advocacy all the time, always supposing motive. It's insulting to a group of supposed long term acquaintances joined together with an interest in figuring things out to suggest they have ulterior motive. Further, it's ridiculous in this small of a group of people using pseudonyms.
Even when most people here let go with their personal opinion on something, i.e. me saying "I loathe tribalism more than anything, think it's responsible for most evil in the world" or oceankat saying "I would never vote for Biden because of that", we are just offering ourselves as examples of ways of looking at things. We're not rah rah partisan advocating, trying to change someone else's mind. Attacks on someone like PeterUnverified are 1) when he spews partisan agitprop or 2) when he drops that, his logic, trying to figure out what he's seeing and why he sees it that way, how it seems to make no sense.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 11:22am
Jesse Jackson criticized Biden while at the same time defending Buttigieg:
Jesse Jackson opens up on 2020 and the changing Democratic Party
The civil rights activist and two-time presidential candidate defends Buttigieg, blasts Biden and praises Warren in a wide-ranging interview.
By ALEX THOMPSON @ Politico.com, 06/30/2019 06:30 PM EDT
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:03pm
Buttigieg has been asked several times why he failed and has avoided answering by a humble confession of his failure. It's not the responsibility of the press to answer the question for him. Jackson is avoiding the question as well. No one asked why the police force is seen as an occupying force. They're asking why the numbers of minorities are decreasing rather than increasing. The real answer goes something like this: I tried x, y, and z but because of a, b, and c it just didn't work. And get really fucking specific about what x. y, z, and a,b,c are.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:44pm
The Mayor could like "take a knee" and that'd set some example.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:47pm
In Biden vs. Harris Jesse Jackson sees an everlasting principle about "states rights" v. civil rights here, a part of the Democratic party creed as it were, so it's an important point to him. Other politicos, however, with lots of experience, just see the same old same old oppo research to distract against a front runner, dig around in a candidate's past for something that you can apply today's standards to and a get a rise out of people for a distraction from current issues:
Edit to add: Willie Horton, anyone? You guys read all about it in Atwater's secret textbook, right?
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 7:16pm
This wouldn't have come up if Biden hadn't reminisced about his warm relations with racist segregationists. The reaction to that incredibly stupid statement has been ham handed but of course people like Skyes is going to attack the ham handed response while giving a wink wink nudge nudge to Biden rubbing shoulders with some of the most vile outspoken racists in the senate.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 7:19pm
Like I implied on Wolraich's thread, it was in the context of a week before saying "if you don't want to work with the other side, why don't you all go home now then?" I think he is going to continue to bring similar things up because he's appears to be trying to sell himself as ideally suited as being able to accomplish making sausage with enemies, and furthermore, he seems to have decided at the end of his life that this thing, moderate progress through consensus between opposites, is a feature, not a bug, of the American experiment.
I agree the segregationist example was ill-chosen. Ham fisted if you like. But it appears about this one thing, he has become very ham fisted. Following his own principles, he will moderate himself on other things, or make sounds like he's going to try. But on this, I doubt it. I think it's the main thing on his menu, it's why he's running. He doesn't want the majority to give up hope: that just because certain states and lots of districts send a bunch of worse and worse crazies to Congress, and just because a minority elected a narcisssist kook president, there is no reason to give up hope, that it is possible to work with them and out of it comes some good things.
by artappraiser on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 7:37pm
Of course I'm never going to like that about Biden but it would have made more sense to say he worked with republican Newt Gingrich than racist democrat Eastman. And it would have created far less back lash.
ps: One thing I noticed is he doesn't even seem to know or understand the argument. He seemed genuinely surprised in the debate when Swalwell criticized his tax deal with McConnell when the bush tax cuts expired. It was in all the newspapers when Reid complained about Biden interjecting himself into the process and getting what he thought was a bad deal. The take away quote from Reid was that he told Obama he wasn't going to work on getting deals with McConnell unless Obama promised to keep Biden out of the process.
We can debate whether it was a good deal or not and Biden obviously thinks it was a good deal and is proud of it. But one should know the arguments the competition is going to use if one wants to be prepared to argue against them. Biden seems clueless about that.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 8:08pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/26/is-biden-getting-hill...
by NCD on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:00pm
Everyone knows that the democratic party some decades ago had numerous overt racists. If we forget the republicans will repeatedly remind us. It's the republican shtick when ever someone points out republican racism today. We can discuss the history but that doesn't make Biden's comments any more palatable. He's not really bemoaning the difficulties of working with rabid racists for all his ability to get along. One doesn't get the impression that it left a bad taste in his mouth. He's nostalgic for the good old days of the comity of partnering with racists. It seems it was sweet to him. Those were the good old days. There's all kinds of ways he can talk about this and he's chosing the worst possible way.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 10:24pm