MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
At least 27 people dead and 109 injured after knife-wielding group attacked Kunming railway station in Yunnan province
Associated Press in Beijing, March 1, 2014
A group of knife-wielding men attacked a train station in south-western China on Saturday, leaving at least 27 people dead and another 109 injured, the official Xinhua News Agency said, making it one of the deadliest attacks in China in recent years.
Xinhua did not provide further details [....]
Local television station K6 said that several of the attackers were shot by police and that victims were being transported to local hospitals.
The state-run Yunnan News said that the men were wearing uniforms [....]
Comments
Updated version with much more information:
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 5:18pm
The attackers were stopped by people with guns?
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 5:28pm
By police with guns. But go ahead, use your imagination and tell us how many dead had both the attackers and the police had guns? Or even if everybody at the station and the attackers had guns? Or if the attackers had Molotov cocktails? Or if the police ran over the attackers with guns instead of knives with a tank?...Or if everyone had guns and when the police got there, they ran over everyone with the tank or starting shooting at the crowd from a helicopter because they were all shooting at each other?
And of course, there's your old favorite: what if the attackers were suicide bombers and a guy at the station had a gun to help them set themselves off?
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 5:46pm
If you see a shiny white van suddenly turn down your block, don't wave your arm to signal that you need a ride.
by moat on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 5:50pm
Also consider this what if: the attackers are anti-government insurgents (which the government already seems to be suggesting,) fighting to free the people from the yoke of the Chinese state, as they see it. They don't need no stinkin' guns to cause major upheaval, they use terrorism, this time with knives, maybe next time with IED's. One of the most common ways of the present and future when a group wants to fight against a state which will always have more powerful weapons than the insurgent group.
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 5:54pm
Every situation has it's own conditions.
In this case, there is a good possibility, there may not have been as many victims, which occurred because the unarmed and fearful people had to wait, till the police arrived with their guns to control the gang attack.
Good people with guns, might have stopped this attack sooner, saving more lives and the injury to others.
So there AA
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 6:02pm
And how does a society make sure that only the good people and not the bad people get access to guns? Because if everybody in China had easy access to guns, and many carried them, surely the attackers would have had access to them, too. (Hint: background checks; licensing, etc.)
(And, furthermore, if that were the case in China and it was also a premeditated attack, and they were not total dumbasses, they would take that into consideration, and attack with something that guns could not easily stop. And to repeat: a nation state will always have more powerful weapons than the insurgent group.)
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 6:17pm
In a Communist society I suppose they would use a National data base to take away all the guns? Leaving a defenseless society to ward off knife attacks by gangs, with nothing more than another knife, club if you could find one or with their bare hands or wait for the police?
Is it your contention, bad people with knives are too be stopped, by good people with knives, or wait till the police arrive with their guns? Uhh ....In your world, I don't want to play the role of the defenseless victim.
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 6:21pm
The only thing seeing all your circular arguments on this over and over has made very clear is that you have an irrational passionate belief in the amazing magical power of hand guns and rifles. They are the be all and the end all, they can do anything, and they empower the individual more than anything else could possibly do, against fear, against governments and knife wielders and other gun owners and suicide bombers and anarchy and all varieties of crime, that they insure freedom and democracy and all that is good in the world.
When a simple single grenade could easily prove you wrong.
You also have a magical belief that if there were no restrictions on their ownership, the good gun owners will always win over the bad owners.
Your arguments are really the opposite of the argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people." You assign amazing magical power to small guns. When every day, much that happens in the world proves you wrong. It's really not 1776 any longer.
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 10:11pm
Again I ask, why does every thread have to be about gun control. There are numerous threads that are specifically about gun control. Why isn't that enough for you. I'd prefer if make every thread you comment on into a gun control thread.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 9:50pm
Nobody tells you what you can write and nobody is stopping you from writing what you thought about the attack... Dictator First they came for the guns then they came for the Right to Free speech?
Added Why don't you tell us how these innocent people could have defended themselves?
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 10:10pm
Both paragraphs of your comment are ridiculous, I can't decide which is more ridiculous.
I certainly appreciate Oceankat pointing out to anyone reading what I complained to you about on Jolly's thread: that you often bring the gun debate to my international news posts. I think it's important that readers who might continue to read on here at Dag realize how you appear to believe gun ownership can solve a lot of the world's problems, how that's part of your world view. That's really the only reason I sometimes answer you when you do this. To help you dig your own grave as to being taken seriously. Yeah, you're free to do it, and we're free to point out that you do it often and that it often seems pretty irrational.
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 10:22pm
When you bring up violence; of course I try to offer my opinion and solution
Great that you inform the readers that the World has violent people.
What kind of responses or replies would be acceptable? "Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed” “Wasn’t it sad O-K? “Wasn't it sad all you other commenters who wish to remark”
"Why yes AA, “Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed”
“Alrighty then, we all agree” “Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed"
Except, not only am I sad; but I don't want this sad situation, to happen to any more innocent people,
I offer my solution; WHAT IS YOURS AND OTHERS SOLUTION OTHER THAN ”Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed”
Odd isn’t it..... That is my objective too. The victims and future victims don’t want to hear “Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed” .....What is your solution AA, so we don’t have to ever hear again “ Oh how sad, innocent people were attacked and some were killed”
I am sorry; I don't speak Lemmingese.
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 11:01pm
Basically, here's how I see things:
News thread = news and analysis, people trying to help each other figure out what's going on.
Blogging = offering and debating solutions or discussing or complaining about others' proposed solutions (often along the lines of "if I was king of the world," mho.)
Ever notice I don't blog much?
I will say that i general, I really don't think highly of people who offer solutions on a situation where they don't really even understand yet what's going on in a developing story. I call that: jumping to conclusions.
Also, I don't fancy myself king of the world, I don't like to think that way, and I really don't ever feel a need to start thinking about solutions until I've read and thought a great deal about a problem. Actually, even if I have read and thought a lot on it, I often like to keep my thoughts about what should be done to myself, along the lines of "knowledge is power, you never know when it will come in handy." And my opining would take more time away from figuring out more about what's going on, more knowledge. I do think the more minds trying to figure out what is going on in a story, the better. Not solutions, but figuring out a story.
Cavaet: I don't run this website, but that's how I approach using it, and will continue to do so unless told by management I've got it wrong. And I will say that I've never seen them say people can't offer solutions on news threads, and I've really don't see any harm in people doing it, but neither am I required to respect anyone I consider to have a habit of "jumping to conclusions."
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 11:57pm
Yes I have. and when you do, You usually criticize, but you offer no solutions.
“Those who want to reap the benefits of this great nation must bear the fatigue of supporting it.”
That is what is wrong with our Society; to many folks in the cheap seats who don't have to get their hands dirty or get criticized;; all the while they criticize others
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
BTW I do appreciate your contributions to provide the news, but who is supposed to do the work, to address the problems you point out?.. Give me the mega phone of the King of the world, so I don't have to be criticized or attacked..... I too might find it comfortable sitting in my comfy chair. While others do the work of trying to solve the problems. "Hey I want to be just the messenger, they don't get shot at as frequently.
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 1:18am
It's better to not go anywhere than to go the wrong way quickly.
by Verified Atheist on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 8:54am
Why's this keep coming to mind? ..
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 1:52am
So that's why you, are the way you are You tried this gun didn't you?
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:05am
I have absolutely zero power here so I don't see how I could even contemplate being a dictator. As you said I can write whatever I want and what I decided to write was that I'd prefer if you didn't turn every thread into a gun control thread. Just expressing my feelings on your comment.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 12:28am
First Amendment principle
"I may not agree with what you say, but I shall defend to my death your right to say it"?
“Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine”
You wanted to criticize my right because you would prefer; rather than defend my right to add to the conversation; that is your prerogative, but please don't try to tell anyone your a defender of Rights. Because I don't believe you.
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 1:41am
please don't try to tell anyone your a defender of Rights.
You're doing an extreme strawman-attack thing here. He didn't try to tell anyone that, he wasn't talking like that nor about freedom of speech, he was talking about news threads on this website. You do this often, and this is why I have accused you in the past of having a persecution complex, it's like you're arguing with some imagined bogeyman who you feel has victimized you, and not the person you were interacting with, and it seems a little crazy.
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 1:50am
I prefer ......your kind over there. You have your own place to write.
Where have we heard this type of bias before and we remember the supporters who found the biased message; music to their ears ?
Knife attack at train station leaves dozens dead...
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:15am
I'm done, been entertaining your self-centered distractions on this thread too much (including your need to do agitprop on gun rights allover the place), that was a mistake.
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:21am
I really didn't ask for your response.
Everyone else seems allowed drive by remarks?
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:23am
Actually, I think his best work was on the need for African gays to have guns in order to avoid death penalties and life imprisonment, introduced into a dialectic that was really an analysis of the contribution by American evangelicals to the movement to persecute gays.
I fear there will never be herring that red again (although we may live in hope...)
The commonplace misconstruction of evidence so as to reach the exact contradiction of any rational thought process(as here, where 10 gunmen could certainly have killed far more than a paltry 3 apiece, machetes per contra), is really a second-rate product, and fit only to provide a cassus snivelorum.
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:33am
I was trying to figure out
Irritum...... "I broke the site" Guns lawfully owned, must not be registered so as...
vox nihili or all three
Added Maybe the answer can be found from your boasting about a life style of self abuse with DRUGS?
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 12:46pm
Don't you mean "self abuse" AND "drugs"?
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 3:54pm
NO
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:03pm
Resistance, personal attacks like this are usually removed by admin. Since Jolly answered it before we could catch it we'll let it pass, but be advised that this is considered crossing the line and won't be tolerated.
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:58pm
Mona, that is very kind, and should you ever come upon me while Mike Tyson is preparing to pummel me, feel free to whomp him over the head with a brick...this, however, is not that case, if you take my meaning.
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:04pm
Lol, Jolly. I didn't know you even knew Mike Tyson! I got your back, pal. . .
I understand that this probably didn't bother you, but it does cross the line and needs to be addressed whenever it happens. Not everyone would take it as well as you did, nor handle it as well. Thanks.
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:45pm
Actually, Mike has depths that are not visible to the casual observer.
For example, you are doubtless familiar with Michael Steele, erstwhile GOP national chair, and now frequent tv commentator on MSNBC, among other outlets.
Well, Mike was married for a while to Steele's sister. They were brothers-in-law!
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:04pm
Had no idea. I'll bet M. Steele doesn't brag it up much. Of course it could be that M. Tyson isn't so proud of M. Steele, either.
Speaking of inlaws, did you know Alan Colmes is married to Monica Crowley's sister?
(Be nice, now. He's sorta my "boss". Sorta because he doesn't pay me. But he does nitpick my posts, which is something our Michael never does. But maybe he should. . .
Never mind.)
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:26pm
I think I did stumble across the colmes/crowley connection, but it induced such cognitive dissonance that I think it fried the particular braincells where it reposed...I forgot it til you brought it up and for second I knew it but then sffsstcrrrackristxxxzzzzz. huh? What were we talking about?
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:51pm
I know! Me, too! Over and out.
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:01pm
Am I to be held accountable if others choose to focus on the filthy?
It's not a term the people I associate with, would use to describe particular abusers.
A detestable action
I said Drugs, I could have said alcohol or tobacco, but Jolly has many times inferred his recreational drug use.
Self-abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Self-abuse may refer to:
1)Self-harm, the intentional, direct injuring of one's own body without suicidal intentions
Drugs .....Ramona
2)Self-destructive behaviour, patterns of behaviour to inflict metaphorical or literal harm on oneself
DRUGS .......Ramona
3) Self-inflicted wound, harming oneself without psychological problems but to take advantage of being injured
and lastly and evidently the one you would focus on
4) A euphemism for masturbation
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:56pm
Personal lifestyles are off limits. I thought you knew.
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:04pm
No I didn't, but since you mentioned it, I have looked for it in the TOS and cannot find where it says Personal lifestyles are off limits.
I probably should have found one of Jolly's older posts to lay the foundation and let him disclose to the public his own lifestyle?
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:29pm
It's here:
The blogs and threads are here for the discussions they start about issues of concern, not about each other personally. Participating in Dagblog for purposes of disruption is not respectful.
Also here:
Behave Or Else...
by Ramona on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 10:01pm
Am I correct to conclude They start about .... .... then go along, to get along; to do otherwise is considered disruptive? In that way the
societyteam doesn't get upset?I agree with the rules ,
Ramona I haven't done a Purely personal attack to be threatened with Behave or Else.
I have only exercised the "any other subjects of concern to its users". portion of the TOS rules.
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 11:31pm
Your understanding of the first amendment is as grossly inaccurate as your understanding of the second. Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech. This applies to government censorship not a comment on a private website. It doesn't even apply to censorship on a private website. We all depend on the courtesy and good sense of the moderators at this privately owned site. If they decide to delete comments or ban anyone its not a first amendment issue. The first amendment does not provide anyone with the right to coerce privately owned websites, tv stations, newspapers, or other publications to publish our musings.
I wouldn't defend your or anyone's right to post here anymore than I'd defend Duck Dynasty's right to have a program on TV.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:13pm
I wasn't questioning the moderators Rights, I was objecting to your bias, trying to influence others to get on your band wagon. You knew I had the minority opinion, so I was an easy target for you to incite the tyranny of the majority
Kissing up to the mangers now, by telling them "you have every right to refuse their kind, (advocates for the Second Amendment) service.
Next you'll be telling me what water fountain or what counter I should sit at; or where I should sit on the bus, because that is what you and others prefer?
I wrote a comment in response to the article and out of the many replies to the comment, most were directed at the commenter.
I could have been as rude as one who comments here "Hey nobody asked you to join in the conversation so butt out."
Besides, as you noted the other day, what kind of site would this be, if no one took the minority position? "I love you AA ....I love you too" " Aren't we the most wonderful people"
As observed by another, the Paternalism is sometimes so obvious.
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:38pm
I second Ocean-Kat. The topic gets really boring, the arguments are repetitive, enough please. Pick 1 or 2 here and there, and let that suffice.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 8:27am
Have you ever looked at yourself, when you argue with rm? Enough please? Boring?
You get what you want out of the discussions and you don't back off when you want to drive home a point.
None of you had to respond, to my reflections upon the subject. It was your choice. So if you find it repetitious or boring, don't engage.
Theres plenty of opportunity to respond to others From the readers You are not limited to my musings.
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 8:54am
don't engage.
So, lemme get this straight. Resistance is now wearing a T-shirt that says "don't feed the troll"?
Take me now, Jesus, I've seen it all...
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:18pm
He is pretty good at what he does.
It is nice to see other people come to appreciate the level of his accomplishment.
by moat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:42pm
You found no problem with your last post getting so many reads and comments
(Did you break a record Jolly/)
As I recall you particularly invited me into the conversation
So many reads by folks and now some who probably never really participated, are calling it boring?
Hey folks; Jolly's post probably broke a record, because people were interested.
Maybe you could post something on basket weaving or how to do flower arrangements * and maybe again, you'll set another record with much more comments and reads?
* (not that it isn't interesting subjects.... I really wish I knew how to do the Haiku stuff)
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:46pm
I recommend posting your own blog post.
I did my first one recently and found there was not a lot of interest in talking about things the way I would like to talk about them. So be it.
You will not have the same experience if you put out what you think as honestly as you can. If you are not a troll, you can prove it overnight (or whatever unit of time works for you) by stating what you think is true and inviting the rest of us to comment.
Go for it.
by moat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 8:02pm
Why would I take your recommendation; especially taking an action that you found unproductive? Why waste my time when all I have to do, is listen to your account of what happens.
Added What was your blog about?
by Resistance on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 10:19pm
I didn't find it to be unproductive. It was good for me to frame a topic the way I thought it should be framed. It didn't get a lot of replies because it wasn't controversial. I am sure any post you make will get lots of replies.
You can see what anybody has posted by clicking on their username.
by moat on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 8:41am
I was giving you a chance to promote your blog.
by Resistance on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 7:48am
I don't pick a single topic with Rm - he'll argue about crazy little stuff like whether Come Together ripped off Chuck Berry. If it was just about avoiding a topic like slavery or black rights or something, but the dude just likes to argue for no reason.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 1:29am
by Resistance on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 7:46am
Because if a gun-toting bad guy happens into a thread on flower arranging, what are you going to do, spray some pollen on the guy and hope he's allergic???
The thread-lings have to be prepared to defend themselves. No thread is safe unless its thread-lings are packing.
However, for this to work, the bad guy either has to know...or not know...that the thread-lings are carrying guns or could be carrying guns or normally carry guns, but not this time...I can't remember which.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:27pm
You gun nuts see guns as the solution to everything. There's other ways to protect threads on flower arranging. Guns just won't work!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnI_5i9EUg4
by ocean-kat on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 2:44pm
Roundup first and if that didn't work a flame thrower would have dried that sucker right up.
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 5:11pm
TOS violation - this is a genetically mod-free blog.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 8:16am
A TOS violater !!!!
Try playing it backwards?
by Resistance on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 9:01am
Pod-people are genetically modified? If only we'd had guns.... ;-)
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 9:09am
Environmental adaptation. Guns protect our species.
Edited to add Nobody messes with these
by Resistance on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 12:34pm
Environmental adaptation means adapting, changing to new situations and new threats. That would mean not sticking with exactly the same thing that was an appropriate response to human society's environment of 200+ years ago, that would mean altering it according to new needs.
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 1:22pm
and
Just sayin'…
by Verified Atheist on Fri, 03/07/2014 - 9:10am
This kind of organized attack is frightening: People getting together and figuring out how much damage they can do before they are shut down. It is like a club made up of the single shooters who perform suicide by cop in our country.
by moat on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 8:12pm
Being frightening is quite possibly the purpose. Though we don't know enough yet to be sure.
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 9:47pm
BBC News - China mass stabbing: Deadly knife attack in Kunming
Muslim Uighur people
by Resistance on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 10:02pm
Very good and relatively short background piece on Uighur separatist problem:
Deadly Terror Attack in Southwestern China Blamed on Separatist Muslim Uighurs
By Hannah Beech, Time.com, March 01, 2014
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 11:21pm
But in this update of the A.P. report, some geographical inconsistencies are pointed out, that if it was an Uighur-related attack, it means it's spreading :
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/01/2014 - 11:33pm
I object to calling Uyghurs "separatist" in the same way I'd object to calling Tibetans "separatist"- Deng Xiao Peng invaded both areas in the 50's, and the Chinese have been doing their best to turn both into pure Han Chinese regions, completely overrunning local culture and moving in tons of Chinese immigrants, building high rises and wide boulevards to dominate the traditional architecture & city layouts, heavy growing of rice out in the desert to destroy the environment, etc.
I'm pretty skeptical of whatever the Chinese have to say about the matter - 60 years of abuse is bound to provoke some reaction.
by Anonymous PP (not verified) on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:47pm
Use of knife attacks by Uighur separatists is not a new thing, if that indeed is what they are dealing with here. Two previous examples are in this timeline offered by the South China Morning Post at the end of this report. There was also "wave of syringe stabbings" (government saying 500 victims!) and there have been bombings including suicide bombings, a hostage situation (weapon unknown) and even one case of "gunfights":
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 1:57pm
Resistance is on target.
If China had The First Freedom and every Chinese had a no-background-check access to AK-47s, with a big magazines, these guys wouldn't have to stab 50 people, they could have mowed them down wholesale with a fusillade of bullets.
by NCD on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:20pm
And maybe it would have been justified? Did the Turkic people of Central Asia ask to be invaded by Russians, Chinese or British?
by Anonymous PP (not verified) on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:49pm
That's the question we must ask when confronted with terrorism. At what point does it become justifiable to purposely, by design and as the immediate objective, kill civilians in public places to achieve political goals?
imo, never.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 3:32pm
PP-Was it justified, in your opinion?
by Anonymous ncd (not verified) on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:54pm
To answer both OC & NCD, I dunno - including Idunno if the Chinese accusation of Uyghr complicity is correct. There are a couple of questions, maybe more - is it moral? is it effective (whether for PR or actual outcome)? I'm reluctant to pre-emptively dismiss all civilian terrorism, in part because the powers that be will continue to use it whether the relatively powerless unilaterally "disarm" - literally in the case of Sierra Leone and Rwanda.
The Russians managed to brutally overrun Chechnya twice, and what were fairly restrained Chechnyan attempts to publicize their cause - hijacking a Russian boat on the Black Sea and taking a theater in Moscow - turned out very differently because who handled the crisis - Russians (who gassed its own people in the theater & killed a number of hostages early on in the hijacking) vs. Turks (who negotiated a bloodless end to the boat crisis).
If the Palestinians shoot rockets towards Israelis, the world seems to notice - if they don't, the world seems to think all's well.
In the case of Xinjiang, the region was supposed to be a Uyghur zone as negotiated after occupation (and the given name "Uyghur Autonomous Zone" - instead, of course, Han Chinese resettlement is used as a "facts on the ground" method to make sure Xinjiang is Han-ified as much as feasible (many of the areas Chinese don't want to live, but in a cooler, less arid city like Urumuqi, achieving 80%+ Mandarin speaking shows the success of the government's strategy and the futility of the native population's plight.
Below you can see Lhasa's new look - hardly Tibetan - as the Chinese brag about their expensive "world's highest railroad" and reshuffling the city to once again use their vast overpopulation as a weapon. (That Mao used massive over-breeding as a weapon to get China noticed after he took over in 1949 shouldn't be missed, and of course his mass atrocities on civilians in the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are part of the background of modern China, along with Chiang Kai-Shek's busting a dam to kill 800,000+ in a probably useless measure to slow down the Japanese.
So what exactly are the original Turkic inhabitants of Xinjiang/East Turkestan supposed to do to maintain some voice, some power? Yeah, I'd see it more relevant even to attack civilians in their own district, but then, people just say "Wild Wild West" and forget about it. On the other hand, here's a grossly violent act - still disappeared from CCTV - that may get the perpetrators noticed, but hard to say there's anything positive that can or should come from the attention - I can't get behind mass slashings as a means to whatever end. Still, what are the Chinese expecting - that people should accept being driven into oblivion, like the steady expansion of the Gobi & Taklamakan?
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 10:37am
A better article on the destruction of Lhasa
More articles on destruction of Kashgar - Smithsonian
Pictures of "old" Kashgar = 1985 and 1990. Note the beauty of the place, compare the damage of 2-3 decades.
Another beautiful photo exposition
Compared to the high rises and kitschy tourist paintings below, along with the massive square with obligatory military transports.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 11:24am
And maybe it would have been justified? Did the Turkic people of Central Asia ask to be invaded by Russians, Chinese or British?
by Anonymous PP (not verified) on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 2:49pm
If everyone in a society had access to AK 47's with big magazines, it would be most likely that terrorists would use IED's or suicide bombers. Like both insurgents and terrorists have already figured out to do with in various places with occupying soldiers, where all the soldiers have access to AK 47's and big magazines.
Actually, I am interested in this knife thing thinking along these lines: is this a cultural thing with them? Is there a special fear significance or power significance for them or even the targets? Because as the timeline I have posted shows, they have access to and have tried other methods.
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:37pm
One unfortunate thing in this case is that it's unlikely anyone is going to get any straight talk about what is really going on with all of this from the Chinese government. Unless they really get serious about honestly participating in international terrorism prevention to the detriment of their "we've got everything under control" national message control priorities.
This excerpt from the South China Morning Post article got me thinking about that:
Which at first thought was encouraging in that regard, but then on re-reading, the "needs to be announced promptly" suggested to me that they might just make stuff up for public consumption rather than give the the real facts. And as a matter of fact, their whole system might just encourage investigators and other law enforcement to make stuff up to please their higher ups.
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 5:50pm
Yeah. These guys are not rookies when it comes to establishing a narrative and waiting for other people to start repeating it.
by moat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:00pm
Account of the building of the narrative so far, including examples of social media items that were censored/deleted, and blasting of certain western media coverage by the official Chinese media (don't be fooled by the title, the article really is about the government narrative):
U.N. Security Council Condemns ‘Terrorist Attack’ in Kunming
By Didi Kirsten Tatlow, "Sinosphere/Dispatches from China" blog @ nytimes.com, March 3, 2013
by artappraiser on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 2:37am
AA, Maybe it’s a major cover up? Their children and elders are being killed as a result of Lead poisoning?
Read further at Knife attack at train station leaves dozens dead...
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 5:57am
So you are suggesting that lead poisoning caused a group of Kunming area people to get dressed in matching clothes and attack other Kunming area people with knives at their train station? They could be crazed meth addicts or glue sniffers, too, though not crazed badly enough to get dressed all alike before heading out. Or they could be also be angry about the thousands of other environmental poisonings going on in China each and every day on its citizens everywhere, why would it be just be the effects of lead specifically?
by artappraiser on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 2:03pm
I don't know AA but it is a possibility. How young were the attackers? Was was their generation exposed to lead more than any other any time?
If you were of the minority group, forced to live in a hostile environment, with contaminates known to injure others and all your complaints to authorities were ignored, (maybe because of corruption), what would you do? I am not saying it is a fact, but would we ever know the truth, other than terrorists attacked. I guess the term terrorist is in the eyes of the beholder.
When its their kids dying because of greed, maybe they view the authorities and the businesses that benefit financially as terrorists. Who use toxic waste to kill of the weak, minority.
What would we do if we didn't have the EPA and the major polluters ignored us ? DIE?
ADDED
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 9:12pm
Do you remember how we ended up beating the aliens in Independence Day? That was my tribe (i.e., the nerds) thankyouverymuch.
by Verified Atheist on Fri, 03/07/2014 - 9:12am
As soon as I saw the word "knife," I knew this was going to turn into a "gun" thread.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:06pm
In honor of the impending holiday, "why
isshould this thread be different from all other threads"by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:14pm
On all other threads, we talk about guns. On this thread, we also talk about guns, but it makes even less sense.
On all other threads, we talk about guns only half the time. On this thread, we talk about guns all the time.
On all other threads, we may talk about other topics, but we're really just talking about guns. On this thread, we talk about guns overtly.
And on all other threads, we say: "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight." On this thread we ask: "Why isn't anyone bringing a gun to this knife fight?"
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:37pm
On all other threads, we may talk of guns while they are holstered or drawn, but on this thread we talk of them drawn only...
edit to add:
If He had only given us the muzzle loader, it would have been enough, but he gave us the muzzle loader and the winchester also.
If he had given us the muzzle loader and the winchester only, it would have been enough, but he gave us the muzzle loader, winchester, and bushmaster...
(No patience, can't go through the whole thing to the streetsweeper...)
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:48pm
youse guys are gut badchen...
by artappraiser on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:03pm
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:14pm
Niiice Dayenu, boychik.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 6:13pm
It's too bad that I petered out (sorry, but that's the expression...) because just before the bushmaster, the nickname for that monster six shooter is "the raging judge" which would have fit so well into the talmudic theme..oh, well.
by jollyroger on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 7:33pm
Someone could post the SNL skit of Julia Child cutting herself with a knife and it would turn into a gun thread.
The French Chef by y10566
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/02/2014 - 4:26pm
Wrong .... A Self Defense alternative, rather than death by mad men with machetes, hacking and stabbing, our weakest amongst us, who cant escape. Maybe one of our parents or grandparents? Are we just supposed to stand there; helplessly looking on?
Accept it as Wrong place, wrong time? If it's meant to be, accept it?
What would you recommend people do, especially the elderly, if they are attacked by gangs wielding machetes? We should learn something from this atrocity, in order to save lives, shouldn't we?
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 7:04am
Don't bring a gun to a knife-fight?
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 2:41pm
Kunming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 1 March 2014, 29 people died, and more than 130 were injured at Kunming Railway Station in what the Chinese Xinhua News Agency described as a terrorist attack.[42]
Images for green lake park kunming - Paradise?
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 5:45am
Note he is reporting from Kunming ( & also that he presents the government's narrative as wanting to promote the idea that ethnic groups are living in harmony, by downplaying the Uighur I.D., but playing up that these were "terrorists" ):
by artappraiser on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 3:44pm
Rumors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Rome
by Resistance on Mon, 03/03/2014 - 5:22pm
From the author who wrote the "Letter from China" column @ The New Yorker for years:
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/04/2014 - 2:50pm
The comparisons Osnos makes with the Soviet experience with ethnic division is interesting.
His perspective strengthens my suspicion that the use of short swords to do the killing was part of the message rather than it being a case of violent intentions making do with less powerful weapons.
There is a grammar of violence being used here that is difficult to understand.
by moat on Tue, 03/11/2014 - 7:48pm
Yes! That is what I was thinking too, moat. Well said!
We will probably not be able to get the real "iconography" here for quite a long time because of the government's need to control the narrative. Though I think the Chinese powers-that-be would be wise to be explaining such things honestly in international anti-terror meets, even if still trying to spin another public narrative, I suspect their pride will not allow them.
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/11/2014 - 8:54pm
P.S. There's been plenty of examples of crazy people executing knife attacks in China with numerous casualties in the recent past.
But they didn't see this response, noted by Osnos: A message in wide circulation declared, “We are all Kunmingers.”
P.P.S. Holy smokes, look at what I just found serendipitously just now by googling "Mongol knives" before I hit "save" on this comment:
http://www.gokunming.com/en/forums/thread/8493/tonghai_or_mongol_type_kn...
Note it's from 9 months ago.
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/11/2014 - 9:28pm
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/11/2014 - 6:30pm