MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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After this political era, can Americans forgive each other?
By ocean-kat on Thu, 06/13/2019 - 3:08pm |In our politics as in our daily lives, we live on a spectrum of forgiveness so wide that it’s hard to stretch the meaning of the word to cover it all. On one end is the effortless absolution we offer those we love — forgiving what your toddler spills or your partner forgets, the featherweight lapses that barely test grace. Somewhere in the middle are the minor lifts of mercy needed to let go of grievances against friends and colleagues. At the far end is the crushing challenge of forgiving the hateful stranger; Pope John Paul II forgiving his would-be assassin, the families and victims of the Charleston church massacre forgiving Dylann Roof. What muscles does that grace require, to turn the other cheek when both are burning?
URL:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/after-this-political-era-can-americans-forgive-each-other/2019/06/12/4d463758-8954-11e9-a870-b9c411dc4312_story.html?utm_term=.cab153c77e8e
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Comments
I like a lot of things she says, she has obviously thought long and therefore words things nicely. I especially like this: Something about Trump, with his winsome delight in tormenting elites, so endears him to his base that they can forgive his most flamboyant faults I think therein lies the secret of repairing damage for the long term. I think many Trump supporters will adjust as anti-Trump pop culture (i.e., peer pressure) has its effects and sinks in, to point of denying that they ever supported him, but only if the left elite doesn't appear to keep poking them with condescendence.
Important to remember that of course there will always be the 25% of the population that is nutsy ideologues, with more on the right than on the left. And they are lost to the rest, you have to expect them and they are a problem for the rest. There are right here in this tweet I just ran across, ideologues who see no nuance and think they have it all figured out, they aren't going away:
by artappraiser on Thu, 06/13/2019 - 3:52pm
I don’t hear trump tormenting the elites. I hear and see him and his minions tormenting those who cannot fight back because they are in such profound need of help. He pits the lower middle class against those who have zero. Nothing.
Then he pits the middle class against the Democrats who want to bring everyone to a point of hope. The white middle class saw their parents improve their lots in life can’t figure out why now, “all of a sudden” they have to become two-earner households with maxed out credit cards just to make it. It must be someone else’s fault. They are right. It is, but you won’t hear them listening to the facts.
Enter donald: It’s those with their hands out: people of color and white riff-raff who are getting a free ride. Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid? We can’t AFFORD these gifts. Oh, hate is an easy thing to foment if you are a complete shit like he is.
If trump is “tormenting the elites,” then absurd tax breaks must be torment. Lies about factories coming back in praise of the manufacturers, who just can’t wait to hire and give raises to the back-bone of this country — those whose jobs are being stolen by “the browns,l or “the blacks,” or the unworthy whites.
I have no clue how to repair this unless and until there is a significant change in income disparity. Last time it took a Depression and a World War to fix. Sadly I don’t see anyone up to the task as yet.
by CVille Dem on Sat, 06/15/2019 - 9:36pm
"tormenting the elites" is typical msm bs, Trump's racism is what endears him, and the economic downturn, or crash, he is teeing up will only temporarily unendear The Base with the Republican Party, and it's perennial mission of dumbing down, distracting voters, and, with the help of corporate media, looting the country in service to big $$$$, Wall Street and their rich donors.
by NCD on Sun, 06/16/2019 - 1:33pm
Those using the term "elites" are using bad shorthand that is simply not specific enough terminology as to what they mean. What many really mean when they use this shorthand terminology is pro-globalist free traders (usually along with liberal culture wars values as well, like being pro-abortion and not being idiotic about things like gays).
He does torture those exact people and so do his nationalist populist protectionist brethren worldwide. It is a very important split in the world right now.
And among many other things, this is why someone like Elizabeth Warren may be competitive with getting some GOP votes in crucial swing areas. Because her re-distributionism is not anti free trade nor anti globalist. So if the GOP continues to be a Trump style populist party, this could in fact help the Dems finally get some of those people who were pro-GOP because they feared excess taxation., they will give up that fear as long as they don't have to live in delusional MAGA land. Free trade and globalization is what made them rich, after all. I'm talking someone like Gary Cohn and his Goldman Sachs type pals. They may be ready to pay more taxes because: the GOP no longer is offering an alternative to living in a backasswards idiotic Pitchfork Pat protectionist culture warring country, as it were.
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/16/2019 - 10:39pm
I hated the article and usually I hate how the concept of forgiveness is discussed. What does the word mean in action, How does it play out? Forgiveness must be preceded by repentance and given provisionally based on a demonstration that the repentance is sincere and the person has changed. So much of so called forgiveness is inconsequential jaw flapping solely to stroke one's own ego.
The bizarre show of the parishioners forgiving Dylann Roof was just that. I'm sure they all felt holy to blubber about their forgiveness and it probably felt good to be admired for it. It's significantly more easy to forgive when the state has the criminal in custody with no intention of forgiving, instead determined to punish to the full extent of the law. So what really did that forgiveness mean? They weren't truly turning the other cheek when the culprit was in chains facing retribution without any ability to strike again. Jesus often said, "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more." He didn't say your sins are forgiven and then turn to the secular authority and tell them to arrest that man. What was the consequence of the parishioners forgiveness? Did any suggest Roof should be released so he could, "Go and sin no more?" Was there any indication that Roof had repented, had changed, and had any intention of trying even a little bit to sin no more?
I have a few times discussed here some of my negative behavior in my youth. Should I be forgiven? I think yes. I have admitted my mistake. I've repented. I understand why it was wrong. I've changed. I don't repeat the mistake today. If I laughed about it. If I didn't care about the harm I caused. If I'm still doing the same things today. Or if I don't do it only because people have gotten so up tight and politically correct. Should I be forgiven? I think not.
Will I forgive Biden for his over eagerness to compromise? For his touchy behavior toward girls and women? For his behavior during the Anita Hill hearings. No. He has not repented. He doesn't think it's wrong. He doesn't understand any of those actions in any way remotely like I see them. He has not changed.
Will I forgive Trump voters for the harm they have done this country and to many people? If they've repented. If they understand their errors. If they've changed.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 06/13/2019 - 7:40pm
Just to be clear, some families forgave Roof, other family members wanted Roof in Hell.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-dylann-roof-death-sentence-20170111-story.html
There is an excellent new book, “ Grace Will Lead Us Home” by Jennifer Berry Hawes that has interviews with family members who were far less forgiving.
https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/jennifer-berry-hawes-new-book-looks-at-the-untold-stories-of-the-mother-emanuel-tragedy/Content?oid=28548285
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 06/13/2019 - 8:07pm
Look at Yugoslavia - few are going to say they're sorry 25 years later. So you find a way to move on?
But in the middle of this disgrace, it's a bit much to focus on forgiveness when they're still doing it and we don't quite know why.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/14/2019 - 12:39am
Russia's sad because at D-Day celebrations they weren't treated as equal time liberators of Europe. Poor Lavrov had a sad-on & a pouty op-ed.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/14/2019 - 3:12am
Made me think: Russia cannot ever expect former SSR's to feel comfortable dealing with them if they continue to act as if they are proud heirs of the entire USSR heritage.They have to project as "we are a new and different country, we are not one and the same with what the USSR was". After that, then they could actually point out the very few good things the USSR did, but only as if they were talking about a ghost. Not electing former apparatchiks of the USSR would be a good start.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/14/2019 - 9:49am
And there is Chechnya.
Christ on a handtruck.
by moat on Sun, 06/16/2019 - 5:03pm
(Tribble is self-described as US career diplomat aka FSO. Father of 4, SoCal soul. Español & Deutsch, too.)
I agree.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/14/2019 - 9:33pm