MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Jordan Peterson: The Man They Couldn’t Cancel
By Orion on Sat, 05/01/2021 - 11:10pm |My working thesis: most people who have been cancelled were yesterday's heroes. Love him or hate him, Jordan Peterson represents the future of ideas.
URL:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-man-they-couldnt-cancel-11619806528
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Comments
just sharing what I ran across on topic:
by artappraiser on Tue, 05/04/2021 - 6:51pm
Huh? Half the time we aren't sure if we're telling the truth, however informed we think we are, especially if the facts are hidden or being slowly unveiled. Kahnemann has a whole book about how we use imperfect knowledge as our quick go-to for daily survival, truthiness winning unless it's something really worth stopping and thinking about, at which point we gather our mental faculties to cognitate on it - and still run into the limits of our cognitive abilities, available knowledge, our framing, and other mental/psychological structures that lead us to quicker, more assured, but not necessarily truer conclusions. The Availability syndrome where what you know or physically see is given higher weight than what you don't know it seldom see, the one where people overestimate their own competence, the anchoring principle where we evaluate based on a certain reference point as "reasonable" (like bargaining at a bazaar, and short of real knowledge if the guy throws out $90 or $240, that's then the basis, the sticking point for all future compromises, not impartial valuation - until I get home and my wife tells me how much I overpaid). These are just a few of our logical "tricks if the trade" that get us through the day, lead us to a smug certain answer, but don't actually provide that much accuracy unless we use external systems to confirm.
So Jordan Petersen or whoever latch onto a thorough commungled(sp?) term like "truth" and stake their career on it? I mean, trying to tell the truth is inarguably good, but it could easily be trying to lie for the right reasons is as good a guiding light in life - where did he get that our culture's foundation is "the truth" anyway? "Do unto others" is a much more obvious candidate, not that that completely explains how we then got to waterboarding, slavery and immigrant cages. Our system is more based on "opinion" with some recognition that our opinion can be flawed, that our sparring partner might teach us something, or that at the end of the day we're just one voice of many, and persuasion, proper rhetoric, is as important as right or wrong - hopefully persuasion in the service of a nearer truth, but certainly not guaranteed.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 12:34am
More from Johnson (who self describes as a conservative, Christian, capitalist, etc.) and his followers. I don't know enough about Peterson to know whether or not he would agree. But I do know a lot of my Bronx immigrant neighbors (of many ethnicities and skin colors) would agree with what is said here, and I suspect that is the same with a lot of minorities that, surprisingly to Dem analysts, voted GOP downticket in 2020, if not for Trump himself:
continues, quite a few more replies and discussion
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 2:32am
Oddly i can't remember talking about the police as a kid, aside from TV - what was the point?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 7:37am
My father worked as a civil servant negotiating contracts with city workers. When I grew older, I learned he despised the police as a union, thought they were arrogant and full of themselves and got paid too much for what they do compared to others, with gravy early retirements. But when I was younger, and with my four younger brothers, there was a real clear message: the police are not your friend! Be afraid of them! Behave yourself! Don't just be polite to them, don't draw their attention! Don't even get parking tickets! Looking back I see he himself was very afraid of things like being stopped. As he got older, though, and more confident from his experience from his job, and what they were supposed to do, I saw more than one instance of him willing to challenge them, chastise them if they were not doing their job correctly. As if he were their boss. Which he actually was part of, being their boss, representing the taxpayers who paid them.
Looking back now as an old person myself, this is what I also see: my father didn't like authoritarians (nor Republicans, was Democrat all his life) and was obsessive about fairness. BUT rule of law with police enforcing is of necessity an authoritarian operation. In a democracy everyone agrees what the rules are going to be. FEAR IS HOW IT WORKS, people have to fear getting in trouble. Without fear, lots of people won't obey those rules.
My father had it right from the getgo: police are not your friend. But you want them nonetheless, unless you are an anarchist or a "live free or die"anti-gummin libertarian right winger.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:08pm
Back in 'the day', NYC cops were exactly as corrupt as Serpico testified, and risked his life doing so.
If your Dad didn't know that he didn't know jack.
I will not go through my list of personal experiences living in NYC, often hearing accounts from neighbors and friends who ran businesses (some tragically ironic 'Don't pay the cops, pay us (the 'mob') and we'll take care of the cops'), and also harassment of blacks.
I SAW NYC COPS shaking down a contractor FOR CASH, I was witness to the cop pocketing the money from a second story window, as the enraged facility manager watched with me and explained what was going on.
Money, to allow the movement of heavy equipment from the truck, across an 8 foot wide sidewalk, onto the property of the largest, most prestigious and oldest university in Manhattan.
If they were on the take there, they were doing it everywhere. Fear? The victims were too afraid of police to report it.
I imagine. and hope, they at less corrupt now.
by NCD on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:39pm
I think she means the Midwest - less corrupt by far.
If course we knew the police would bust you for dope or harass for long hair, but mostly it wasn't a thing we obsessed on
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 2:06pm
yes I was born and lived in Milwaukee until age 29 and my father worked for the city of Milwaukee. the police there were not corrupt at that time, I have no idea whether they are now. city hall was somewhat, tho, because of the newspaper monopoly in town which also owned major tv and radio. was very powerful player.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 5:22pm
Every damn part of NYC government has been extremely corrupt at one time or another, going back to Boss Tweed and before that. Why should the cops be any different?
Mostly under the Democratic party. When I moved here while it was still under Koch I couldn't believe the daily corruption and just general entitlement that nearly all government workers felt they had to treat citizens like dirt. Donald Manes didn't committ suicide by sticking a knife in his belly because he was running a great operation for the taxpayers in the Parking Violations Bureau.
I was shocked daily by how this city was run. Total bias verification for my voter registration as an Independent before I moved here. And they're all coming back under DeBlasio, the creepy crawler corrupt Democratic machine.
Edit to add: Bloomberg had a noxious nanny state pill of a personality, but he was the best damn mayor this city ever had, precisely because he was a billionaire who couldn't be bought or coopted by them. Yes, we elected and re-elected a dictator, and he did a great job of cleansing for a while.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 2:11pm
P.S. They agree with me, how it works (but of course, we don't agree that "all cops" are like Chauvin, still, their bigger point about fear)
They chose not to have government and to protect against criminal elements themselves. Which for some is pie-in-the-sky kumbaya community councils, but for most in reality it means everybody has guns.)
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:52pm
I seem to see many more successful Woke Blacks then I see successful Conservative Blacks
Regarding voter suppression which impacts Black voters, I see Black business leaders openly challenging the supposedly Conservative Republican Party.
I see people openly protesting
Open protest means that you are not accepting your situation
Without protest their would have been no meeting with Senators Booker, Scott, and Graham.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 10:21am
It's called the Availability Syndrome - you see what you hang around, what's closes at hand and think that's all there is.
It's also called the Pauling Kael Syndrome - "how could NIxon have won? everyone I know voted for McGovern" - except she as a talented film critic was being sarcastic & making a point about bubbles, not believing it herself.
I'm sure there are a lot more Conservative blacks & in general unwoke blacks than there are woke blacks. But you're unlikely to run into them, clinging to your pet peeves as you do.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 10:57am
I went over to Johnson's social media page
Johnson seems to be a COVID denier
The overwhelming majority of Black voters cast votes for Democrats, the Woke Party.
As noted above 75 Black business leaders spoke out about Republican plans to suppress Black votes
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 11:16am
Johnson has the conceit that only those with his wingnut point of view is taught to succeed
That is BS
Read the stories of Woke Black folks and you read about people willing to overcome the odds.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 12:20pm
You use Woke as a synonymy for Democrat; clearly a lot of Democrats don't agree with you.
You also seem to think that public protesting on the streets has been productive as to the matter of voter suppression. I see a ton of evidence that that's not been the case, including this article just posted by you.
There's been a ton of political activity but not street protesting. So far corporate action is really where there is a chance of an effect on the Republicans trying to do it. Not only do they not give a shit about protestors and "activists", they
I seem to see many more successful Woke Blacks then I see successful Conservative Blacks. Name a few.
Most "successful" people believing in capitalism, if you mean monetarily successful. And most people have the impression that "The Woke" are anti-capitalist socialists I certainly do and I read a lot of "Woke".
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 12:45pm
Really, if you can come up with a link showing how Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier agree that America is an evil colonialist empire, police and prisons should be abolished, and everyone needs to chose the pronouns they would like people to use to address them, you win. But I suspect it would be easier to find evidence that they think Amazon treats its workers just fine and that they pay enough in taxes already.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:27pm
From Wikipedia
You may using a different meaning
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:43pm
"Woke" began as meaning alert to things going on in society
Now, "Woke" means whatever you want it to mean.
Woke Blacks:
Oprah Winfrey
LaBron James
Here is are lesser known names, but powerful businesspeople from the Black Economic Alliance
https://www.blackenterprise.com/group-of-powerful-black-business-leaders-endorse-joe-biden-kamala-harris/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/05/2021 - 1:35pm