Doctor Cleveland's picture

    Hard Truths About College Admissions and Affirmative Action

    Public debates over affirmative action in college admissions, such as all the hubbub about Fisher v. Texas (in which a not-so-qualified white student named Abigail Fisher sued before the Supreme Court to end affirmative action at the University of Texas), usually run into basic confusion about how college admission works in the first place. Opponents of affirmative action often call, loudly, for American colleges to "go back" to an admissions system that has never existed.

    During oral arguments for Fisher v. Texas last fall, a commenter on a news post wrote: "Here's an idea. Why don't we just let in the students with the best grades and test scores?" The commenter intended this as irony, because he assumed that was the normal and natural way to manage selective college admissions. But the system he thinks of as "normal" has never been used in this country, and it will not be used if affirmative action is abolished.

    (The ugly irony, of course, is that plaintiffs like Abigail Fisher who complain about "reverse racism" would lose out under a strict academic meritocracy, since their actual academic credentials would not have gotten them into the schools they're suing. Despite all the fantasies about obviously-qualified white students being passed over for hopelessly-unqualified black students, somehow anti-affirmative-action groups can only find weak borderline applicants when it's time to sue. And seriously, America's B- white students do not need everything to be about grades and scores.)

    So let's review a few basic facts:

    1. College Admissions Has Never Been Strictly About Academics

    This is the hardest one for people to accept. But it is absolutely true. Competitive college admissions in the United States has never been about scholarly qualifications alone. There are countries, like France, where the competition for places at top schools is strictly academic. This country has never been one of them.

    There are American colleges that don't have the luxury of being selective, and some of those schools do primarily rely on grades and test scores and sometimes use numerical cut-offs. But those are schools that are worried about finding enough students. They are basically taking every qualified person who applies. These schools use grades and scores to screen out applicants who seem likely to flunk. But these schools are irrelevant to the affirmative-action discussion, because students do not compete with one another to get in. You can't claim that you lost your place to a minority, or a legacy, or a football recruit, because there aren't a limited number of places. Letting one student in doesn't mean turning another student away.

    (I want to be clear, by the way, that a college that isn't selective isn't necessarily bad, or that schools that are harder to get into are better. Some good schools have trouble filling their classes, and some selective schools are overrated. I'm just talking about the practical side of admissions.)

    On the other hand, Harvard, which is not necessarily the best school in America but has long been the most selective, had for many decades (and may still have) a policy that capped the number of undergrads who got in on nothing but academics to ten percent of the incoming class. Ask your friends what percentage of Harvard kids they think got in just on their grades. Ten percent won't come up often.

    The other ninety percent have good-enough grades, with the definition of "good enough" changing over time and depending on the strength of the applicant's other qualifications. They all have to be in the pool of students who probably won't flunk out, but the pool of applicants who could eventually graduate if they were let in is much, much larger than the number of students Harvard can or will actually take.

    That other ninety percent are selected for things like athletic ability, family connections to the school, signs of "leadership," artistic or other extracurricular talents, regional origin (because the school wants "geographic diversity," meaning more kids from Idaho), and history of charity work. Some of the spots in the ninety percent have always been set aside for students from poor backgrounds. Fifty years ago, racial diversity got added to the list of possible qualifications.

    Other selective schools work on basically the same model, with the specific percentages varying a little. (Some schools give more weight to legacies, or a little less to athletes, or set aside 15% instead of 10% for academic stars, but the general pattern holds.) Harvard's a convenient example because its fame means there has been more written and published about its practices, but all of Harvard's peers and rivals, and all of the schools struggling to get closer to that exclusive tier, operate in much the same way.

    But these colleges operated this way for decades before affirmative action. Giving some consideration to minority applicants didn't change the fundamental procedure, and banning such consideration wouldn't either.

    2. Selective Admissions Are Driven by the Schools' Self-Interest

    Why do colleges give these preferences to athletes, legacies, class presidents, bassoon players,  blood drive organizers, and kids from Wyoming or West Virginia? Because they believe that doing so is good for the school.

    Selective colleges don't favor athletes in the admissions process just because they're trying to make money off football or basketball. Schools with no big-revenue sports programs still give athletes preference, and they give preference to athletes in non-revenue sports like track and lacrosse. The Harvard-Yale game isn't going to bring in any TV dollars, but both of those schools recruit football players. The exclusive private colleges don't admit athletes to make money off sports. They're actually willing to lose money on sports in order to recruit athletes.

    Why would schools do this? Because they believe (or enough people within the institution believe), that athletic standouts are likely to excel in other fields after graduation. They view a B+ or A- student who is showing leadership, discipline, and drive on the playing field as more likely to succeed in life than another student with similar grades. So they look for rowers, fencers, and swimmers. And if you think it sounds crazy to look for the next Mark Zuckerberg on a high school fencing team, remember that the last Mark Zuckerberg was captain of his high school fencing team.

    A college that's able to choose the students it accepts does its best to choose a group that will become successful alumni in as many different fields as possible. The graduates' success raises the school's reputation and strengthens its core pool of donors. So the best strategy is to choose students with a wide range of different strengths and advantages. You want brains. You want motivation and leadership. You want some socially adroit students who will go on to success in business or politics, so you take kids who were president of three different clubs in high school. You want a certain number of students who were born to money and privilege, because their money and privilege will make them influential later. You want students from all over the country because you want to have alumni all over the country. You want a few driven poor kids who will make good. You want a few artists, a few non-profit leaders, a few intellectuals. (Harvard's 10% rule suggests the percentage of academics and intellectuals they want to turn out.) This isn't so much "diversity" as diversification: admitted students are the schools' long-term investment portfolio, and like smart investors schools spread their bets around.

    These are all value judgements, and they are inseparable from the institution's value system. The schools have long-standing ties to certain established elites; they have a long-standing commitment giving legs up to at least a few poor kids. But institutions' values only shape their sense of their own long-term interests. In the end, they make the admissions decisions that they believe will best serve the school itself.

    Affirmative action programs are ultimately just another admissions bet, and many of them have paid off. Any country with distinct racial and ethnic groups will always produce a number of high-profile leaders drawn from those groups. Elite schools want those leaders to be their alumni. W.E.B. DuBois had a Harvard degree, but the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement generally had not been educated in the traditional elite schools. Whether the Ivy League's leaders welcomed the Civil Rights movement or feared it, none of them wanted to see a whole set of national leaders coming exclusively from Howard. They started making a point of admitting minorities, and eventually a Columbia/Harvard Law man was elected the first black president of the United States. Mission accomplished.

    Elite colleges make sure to take kids from Utah or North Dakota because they want a chance to produce some of Utah and North Dakota's future leaders. They make sure to take some kids from the privileged classes because they want a chance to produce the privileged classes' future leaders. Now they also make sure to take some minority kids because they want a chance to produce some of those minority groups' future leaders. It isn't white guilt. It's time-honored strategy.

    3. Academics Were Less Important to Colleges Before Affirmative Action

    People talk about affirmative action as if it gutted the academic integrity of American colleges and lowered standards. But exactly the opposite is true for selective college admissions. Academic expectations for all applicants have been much higher in the affirmative action era than they had ever been before.

    This is more coincidence than causation. Affirmative action did not make the standards higher. It just began around the same time that other major changes were taking place, including coeducation at formerly all-male schools and a major shift away from legacy admissions and toward greater emphasis on scores and grades.

    Over the course of the 1960s, elite East Coast colleges seriously reduced their investment in the sons of the traditional East-Coast elite and began investing much more heavily in academically talented middle-class students from public schools. The reasons for this are complex. Part has to do with the richest schools becoming rich enough, for the first time, to become relatively independent of their traditional old-money clients. Another part has to do with universities' changing sense of where America's leadership class was going to come from in the future. Ivy League schools bet (correctly, as it turned out) that the old East Coast ruling class was going to keep a major seat at the table but would no longer dominate national institutions as it had before World War II. Schools adjusted their admissions strategies accordingly, reducing the number of legacy and prep-school kids so that they represented a large and still-important but not predominant share of each entering class. At the same time, schools took more upwardly-mobile public-school kids with impressive SATs. Some old-money alumni naturally howled bloody murder about reverse discrimination. But in the long run, it seems to have been the right move.

    Naturally, it was the academically-weaker legacy kids who got left out of this process. The Gentlemen's C is no longer a qualification if the school you're applying to is no longer primarily interested in recruiting gentlemen. This was a real and large academic change. One Princeton alumni group pamphlet from the 1950s makes it clear that every "Princeton son" who applies will automatically get in if he looks like he can make it through to graduation. (The pamphlet goes on to reassure worried parents that the lowest quartile of Princeton boys is absolutely stuffed with legacies, so don't worry that your precious child needs to a genius.) That isn't even remotely the case any more. Legacies still have a very large statistical advantage in college admissions, but today they face an only slightly (if crucially) easier standard than non-legacies face. (Of course, when standards have risen so high, a slight relaxation matters enormously.) The days of you're-in-if-you-won't-flunk are long gone.

    As the aristocrats with mediocre grades got replaced by studious middle-class kids, the overall academic qualifications for admitted students rose sharply. The academic qualifications of that "other" ninety percent admitted to Harvard have gone upward with them. "Good enough" grades for a lacrosse star applying to Harvard today are a lot higher than "good enough" grades for a lacrosse star in 1935 or 1955. Admitting women (and thereby doubling the pool of potential applicants) only made competition fiercer, and the excessive admissions arms race of the last thirty years, with selective admissions rates falling nearly every year and those at the most selective schools going from around 20% to somewhere in the single digits, has relentlessly kept defining "decent grades" upward.  Every generation of Ivy Leaguers is full of people who will tell you, "Of course, I would never get in today."

    Affirmative action didn't cause that upward spiral in academic expectations. But it hasn't been a noticeable drag on it. And more importantly, the definition of "good enough" grades for an affirmative action applicant is essentially pegged to the standard of "good enough grades" for other kinds of favored applicants. As "good enough" grades for athletes and legacies have gotten higher, so have "good enough" grades for recruited minorities.

    Of course, "good enough" grades for black and Latino applicants will never be as low as "good enough" grades for legacies or athletes. Selective colleges' interest in recruiting lacrosse players and aristocrats has always been greater than their interest in recruiting disadvantaged minorities. Studies of admissions have repeatedly shown that the advantages for athletes and legacies is significantly higher than any advantage for underrepresented minorities. (It's worth noting that anti-affirmative-action plaintiff Abigail Fisher has no problem with legacy preferences. One of her complaints about how UT has done her wrong is that all of her family has gone to UT. Clearly, she thinks giving her an advantage because of that would be more than fair.)

    At bottom, schools perceive recruiting athletes and legacies as better for the school's long-term advantage than recruiting minorities. They want to recruit future leaders from minority communities, but they want to recruit track stars and aristocrats even more. The average academic standards for affirmative-action recruits hovers somewhere above the average academic standards set for big-time legacies and lacrosse heroes. As competitive pressure has raised the floor for the athletes and legacies, the expectations for recruited minorities have also increased. That is not the story anyone tells about affirmative action in America's colleges. But it is what's actually happening.

    Comments

    All in all, a good post, but I think the value of legacies and [outstanding] athletes is conflated with their scarcity. A significant percentage of the population is a minority (I'll refer to this as m%), but a comparatively much smaller percentage of the population is a legacy of Harvard or an outstanding athlete (I'll refer to this as a%). Consider that if you want x% of your incoming class to be an outstanding athlete and a (representative) m% of your incoming class to come from a particular minority, that if x% is much larger than a% (e.g., if x is 3% and a is 0.03%), then the competition based off other criteria (such as grades) within that subgroup is going to be weaker. So, even if you're wanting your incoming class to be 13% black and 3% "outstanding athlete" the competition within the black group will be more intense because there are far more blacks presumably applying than there are outstanding athletes. (And, yes, I'm ignoring the fact that there will be outstanding athletes who are also black for sake of simplicity. I'm also making the grossly simplifying assumption that being an "outstanding athlete" is a binary proposition, much as being a minority is, for all intents and purposes.)

    Note that I'm not saying that you're necessarily conflating value and scarcity, just that value and scarcity are conflated.


    Okay, perfectly fair point. I'm not sure about the 3% figure (Harvard, for example, probably admits athletes of some type as more than 10% of its class, and in many classes the number of athletes might well be higher than the number of African-Americans) but it's good to keep me honest.

    But we also need to account for the fact that none of these three groups exist in a vacuum. It takes a certain amount of previous educational privilege or opportunity to be "academically eligible" at all. The ugly truth is, a significant percentage of the African-American community is knocked out of the running because they got trapped in scandalously bad schools that put them significantly behind grade level by the time they were 16.

    On the other hand, the number of college legacies who were deprived of basic educational opportunities is very low, and when we talk about legacies from the rich and famous colleges it's probably vanishingly low. Yes, the pool of children of your school's own alumni is much, much smaller than the pool of African-American or Latino students. But that pool is almost uniformly educationally privileged, and most of that pool have had various enrichment opportunities (summer classes, test-prep classes, etc.) On the average, that group should absolutely be bringing it.  And more to the point, a legacy's applicant's academic profile is more likely to reflect the best-case-scenario; they've already been prepared and coached as well as possible.

    Likewise, the pool of athletes in some of the sports *that colleges happen to favor* is largely restricted to the educationally privileged. There aren't a lot of crew or lacrosse programs for poor inner-city youth. If you're at a high school where you can earn a lacrosse letter, chances are you're at a high school where you can take AP classes.


    The 3% figure was completely my invention. Your point about lacrosse/crew athletes and legacies having a privileged background is obviously valid, but with a significant enough skewing of the ratios it can be (and evidently is) still canceled out. I.e., the top 0.1% (for example) of black high school students' SAT scores will exceed the top 1% (for example) of outstanding lacrosse students' SAT scores.

    Of course, none of this in any way challenges your very valid thesis: admission to top colleges in the US has never been only about academic merit.


    Thanks, VA.

    I think there's another salient difference I omitted: some athletes and legacies are more desirable than others as athletes or legacies, and get a more intense preference, while every minority applicant is equally desirable as a minority.

    Some individual athletes are seen as worth making more allowances to get: the potential future Olympian, the running back the coach could build his offense around. And some legacies are more valuable than others: the child of an especially important public figure, or a member of the family that various campus buildings are named after. Those applicants can get through with lower grades and scores than ordinary athletes and legacies. On the other hand, every African-American student counts as exactly one African-American student. Nobody counts as one and a half. So any affirmative-action preference comes in single strength: no one gets more or less of it.


    Why does Abigail Fisher single out the Black or Latino students as the reason she was not admitted? Aren't there White students who have lower qualifications that could serve as the target of her ire?


    There are. There's a handful white students with lower grades and scores than Fisher who got in. And, more importantly there's a double or triple handful of black and Latino students, also with better grades and scores than Fisher, who didn't get in.

    168 minority students with grades as good as Fisher's or better did not get in.

    So why make this about race? Because Fisher wants a scapegoat. She wants the fact that she got turned down by the college of her choice, which is a common disappointment, to be a national injustice. And as long as she makes it about race, there are people who will indulge her.


    Thanks for the information


    Fisher v. Texas (in which a not-so-qualified white student named Abigail Fisher sued before the Supreme Court to end affirmative action at the University of Texas)

    Not exactly. 

    According to Wikipedia, 

    The suit, brought by undergraduate Abigail Fisher in 2008, asked that the Court declare the University's race-conscious admissions inconsistent with Grutter, which had in 2003 established that race had an appropriate but limited role in the admissions policies of public universities. While reasserting that any consideration of race must be "narrowly tailored," with Fisher the Court did not go on to not overrule Grutter, a relief for those who feared that the Court would end affirmative action.

    Grutter would give universities and colleges more discretion in selecting for their preferred diversity than Texas' current Top 10% Rule, the one that excluded Fisher. Since that is what you seem to be advocating, I do not understand why you are so upset by her suit and I certainly do not understand why you feel the need to malign her in the process. She is so obviously just a sympathetic face who happens to have standing being used by powerful political forces opposed to the Top 10% Rule. 

    What is really interesting is that one of those forces and perhaps the Rule's most powerful opponent in its current form is UT-Austin, Fisher's home town university and the one she wanted to attend. Apparently so did many of Texas' top 10% who used their guaranteed admission to any state-funded university at UT-Austin. In 2008, they were 81% of its freshman class. 

    Texas' Top 10% Rule has been successful in achieving diversity consistent with state demographics but it has had some unintended consequences and created some perverse incentives like siphoning away the best and brightest from other schools in the Texas University System  into the more prestigious UT-Austin and at the same time crowding out locals like Fisher. 

    The Rule probably does need some tweaking but not a full rollback to Grutter. For example, UT-Austin lobbied the Texas legislature for a cap  on the number of top tens it is required to accept. It wanted a cap of 50% of a year's incoming class; it got 75%. My guess is that will create its own problems but it is at least a start. I am sure they would still prefer Grutter.  I think SCOTUS did the right thing in declining to do so.

    This has been an interesting exercise which I would never have done had I not felt compelled to fact check your slights to Ms. Fisher.  For the record:

    Fisher had a grade point average of 3.59 (adjusted to 4.0 scale)[7] and was in the top 12% of her class at Stephen F. Austin High School.[7] She scored 1180 on herSAT (measured on the old 1600 point scale, because UT Austin did not consider the writing section in its undergraduate admissions decision for the 2008 incoming freshman class).[7] The 25th and 75th percentiles of the incoming class at UT-Austin were 1120 and 1370.[7] She was involved in the orchestra and math competitions and volunteered at Habitat for Humanity.[7]

     

     


    Actually, Emma, you could have found all of that data by reading my previous blog post about this. I did not write "not-so-qualified" because I didn't know her scores. I wrote "not-so-qualified" because I DID.

    1180 on the SATs and a 3.59 GPA are not good enough to get into UT Austin. It really is that simple. And this has actually been admitted repeatedly in court, including in oral argument for the Supremes. Here is a question from Justice Ginsburg:

    JUSTICE GINSBURG: Mr. Rein, before we get to that, because the Court is supposed to raise it on its own: The question of standing. The injury -- if the injury is rejection by the University of Texas, and the answer is no matter what, this person would not have been accepted, then how is the injury caused by the affirmative action program?

    Fisher's attorney did not answer that Fisher would have gotten in. He did not because he could not. He said that race should not be involved at all and it's unfair, blah blah blah.

    Let me repeat myself a bit for your benefit:

    Abigail Fisher is suing because she did not get into the University of Texas. Here's how admission to the University of Texas works: if you're in the top ten percent of your class in any Texas high school, you get into the University of Texas. Abigail Fisher was not in the top ten percent of her high school class, and did not get in. Black people are obviously to blame for this.

    and

    Abigail Fisher scored 1180 out of 1600 on her SATs, which would put her somewhere in the bottom half of admitted students. And while Texas at Austin doesn't consider high school GPA, Fisher's GPA of 3.59 would also probably put her somewhere in the bottom half of UT's entering class. Her combined scores and class rank would project her, as near as I can tell using UT's stats, to be a B- student with something like a 2.9 GPA in her first year, which isn't a disgrace but doesn't make her someone to chase after. This, obviously, is some black person's fault.

    Fisher's test scores weren't bad enough to keep her out of Texas if her class rank were stronger, and her class rank wasn't low enough to keep her out if her scores were stronger. But neither was strong enough to pull the other up. And the competition for that last 15% of the class is pretty tight. Which leaves us with only one possible conclusion: black people.

    and

    So to recap: Abigail Fisher couldn't get into the University of Texas on the basis of her high school record. She couldn't get into the University of Texas based on her test scores. And her whole ball of possible bonus qualifications, like musical talent or strong recommendations from her teachers, was not enough to raise her application above her so-so numbers. But because one tiny part of the number of factors that might have given her a better chance than her grades and test scores, but did not, was race, young Abigail Fisher has decided that the reason she did not get into the University of Texas was affirmative action. And today the Supreme Court is hearing her case.

    and to sum up for you in light for the fact that 168 black and Latino applicants with academics as good as Fisher's or better were also turned down, this:

    Abigail Fisher is not a bad student, and there is no shame in her 1180 on the SATs or her 3.59 GPA. But those qualifications do not entitle her to a place at whatever college she wants. She is not owed a place at UT Austin, or any other competitive campus. Other people with better qualifications than Fisher were surely turned away as well. But those people have the realism and moral character to accept a setback and move on.

     


    Thanks for that as well


    You're welcome, rmrd. Glad to help.


    Why you continue to belabor your point about Ms Fisher's academic qualifications baffles me when the whole point of Affirmative Action was and is (or should be) to look beyond them to other factors including but hopefully not limited to diversity.

    For example, why should the children of the community that built UT-Austin who fall somewhat short of its top 10% not be entitled to a little special consideration in the selection process over say an equally qualified applicant from nearer UT-Dallas once the overall diversity aspect is satisfied?

     

     

     


    Well, you do seem quite baffled, Emma.

    I "belabored" Fisher's academic qualifications because you accused me of ignoring them.

    I pointed out how weak those qualifications are because you bizarrely pointed to them as evidence that Fisher was well qualified. Even Fisher's own lawyers won't say that, and they're getting paid.

     


    And you seem like a smug, self-satisfied academic clinging to a 50-year old worldview but given that appearances can be deceiving I gave you the benefit of doubt. You just erased that.

     


    Emma, as someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight, I respectfully say maybe take a baby step back. I don't think Doc came across as "smug" etc., and he seemed to just be elaborating points. Peace.


    I have to say that I'm baffled as well. Is your point that Ms. Fisher's academic qualifications are almost good enough to get in and that because she lived closer to UT-Austin she should be favored enough to push her over that boundary?

    If so, two thoughts occur to me:

    1. There will presumably already be a disproportionate number of students living near UT-Austin applying to UT-Austin, so such a policy would surely work to decrease diversity of location.
    2. An equally qualified applicant living near UT-Dallas wouldn't get in either, right? Unless that applicant had other qualities (e.g., being in a minority, being a legacy, or being an outstanding athlete), in which case s/he wouldn't be "equally qualified". So, are what you really advocating is for slightly more qualified applicants living further away to be rejected in favor of less qualified applicants living closer? Or, are you advocating for eliminating other qualities in the selection process, such as being in a minority, being a legacy, or being an outstanding athlete, and if so, which of these qualities are you actually wanting to eliminate from the selection process? Or, are you arguing for both?

    1. Diversity of location? There's a diversity of location to be satisfied now?

    2. What I am really advocating is to stop demonizing Ms Fisher and look at what the forces sponsoring her are really trying to accomplish and why. Are they, as Dr. Cleveland claims, trying to end affirmative action completely or are they, as I suggest, just seeking to roll back its form to one that gives UT-Austin more discretion in determining who gets the benefit of affirmative action, the power of picking winners and losers.

    It will come as no surprise to you that Texas is not really like other states but what may surprise you is that it has no ethnic majority which pretty much explains why the Top 10% Rule has been successful in satisfying the diversity requirements of affirmative action. 

    Another surprise may be that UT-Austin's huge endowment is largely courtesy of Texas' Permanent University Fund (est. 1876). I wonder, does that qualify Ms. Fisher a legacy? Nevermind her specifically. It is intended for the education of Texas' children so, yes, they should be considered before 'more qualified' out-of-state applicants.

    I guess I do not see Fisher v. University of Texas as a general assault on affirmative action like Dr. Cleveland does but more as an in-state dispute over who gets to wield its power.

     


    1. I believe that location diversity was a contributing factor before race-based diversity. It's definitely been a factor for a long time. As the good doctor wrote about in his piece, there are selfish reasons for the university to want to have alumni from a wide swath of the country, and there are also good diversity reasons to sample a wide swath of the country.
    2. Ms. Fisher is mainly upset that she didn't get in and is using specious reasoning to satisfy her ego, IMO. Dr. Cleveland explained very well why her reasoning was specious, but if his arguments didn't satisfy you, then I'm sure nothing I say will change your mind. Obviously none of us know what the real motives are behind "the forces sponsoring her", but you have to admit that at least a few of those forces would very much like to end affirmative action.

    That said, all state universities that I'm aware of, do get a disproportionate sampling of their students from their own states. Rhode Island and other very small states might be exceptions, but in general they get far more students applying from within their own state than from any other state, so even without favoring their own state this is going to happen naturally. With Texas this is going to be even more true!

    As for giving UT-Austin more discretion in determining who gets the benefit of affirmative action, if that was truly their goal, then why did they sue UT-Austin? I'm reading the Wiki page on it, and it surely doesn't seem that Ms. Fisher's goal was to give UT-Austin more discretion in how they apply affirmative action but less.

    P.S. I was unaware that Texas was leading the country in not having an ethnic majority. Thanks for sharing that fact. (Before I have someone mention Hawaii or some other state where this is also true, by "leading the country" I merely mean that they are ahead of the country in what seems to be an inevitable trend that is expected to hold true for the country as a whole sometime around 2050.)


    I understand that a university may have selfish reasons for wanting out of state students such as the higher tuition rates but should they take precedence over in-state students at a very well-endowed, state-funded university? 

    I tried very hard to explain that UT-Austin is not like other state-funded universities. It is the beneficiary of a permanent fund established by Texas in 1876 for Texas students. It must comply with the terms of that fund.  

    On top of that, it has had to comply with the Top 10% Rule, Texas' form of Affirmative Action.

    In 2008, UT-Austin projected that soon, possibly as early as 2009, its entire freshman class would consist of Texas Top 10% students leaving no room for any from the other 90% (like Fisher) much less any out-of-state or international students. It wanted something done about the situation. 

    The law has since been changed so that UT-Austin and only it has a Top 7% Rule which only postpones its problem.

    Read at least the final three paragraphs of The Top 10% Law and its impact on the University of Texas at Austin. Under the circumstances described, it is hardly a stretch to think that they did not very much mind being sued about it even if they were not complicit in the suit.

    So why smear Fisher. She's just a cat's paw.

     


    Wasn't Fisher willing to smear African-American students?


    Link?


    Why did she bring the suit?


    Non-answer. Link?


    The question is the answer


    Since you are pretending. Fisher says that she didn't get into UT-Austion because those dumb Black kids got in. She did not question if their were Whitescwith lower grades who gained entry.She assumed her White privilege.


    I know you did not read what I wrote but you didn't read your own link either, did you. Samples:

    It's true that the university, for whatever reason, offered provisional admission to some students with lower test scores and grades than Fisher. Five of those students were black or Latino. Forty-two were white.

    In the Fisher case, while the young woman may have lent her name to the lawsuit, the case before the Court has very little to do with her. Her name appears just five times in the thousands of words that make up the body of the complaint

    It was a surprisingly good background and overview for HuffPo. Thanks. 


    She lent her name to the suit.The suit was an attack on Affirmative Action. She was pissed and wanted to punish UT-Austin at the expense of Black students. Fisher could have walked away.


    You seem to have had a problem with Dr Cleveland's post.Now you have a problem with me. Fisher lent her name to a suit intended to end consideration of race.Are you saying she is stupid and did not realize that race was being considered? You have been ticked off from the beginning.


    Wasn't a possible outcome of the Fisher lawsuit the end of any consideration of race in university admissions. The racial nature of the case is obvious. Another person originally included in the suit dropped out. Here is Abigail Fisher and her lawyer saying that her White race factored against her in failing to be admitted to UT-Austin. Fisher says less qualified students were admitted. The only less qualified students Fisher singles out are those students of color.


    Think disappeared, but likely sports donations from alumni are much larger than academic donations. Just our priorities, how we roll.


    And, of course, the vast majority (if not all) of those athletic donations go into enhancing the athletic programs (coach's salaries, etc.) instead of the academic programs. (I do know you're not justifying the status quo here.)


    Hard fact about college, graduate program admissions:

    Far too often inscrutable, biased, enigmatic, abstruse, puzzling, opaque and invariably secretive in execution.

    A young man who decides to illegally and unilaterally upend and expose the operation of the nations national security system, set up and run under strictures from all three branches of our government, is a hero to millions of Americans.

    A young woman, who for whatever personal reasons, questions the admissions policy of one institution of higher learning, legally through the courts, is attacked on her motives, personally assailed as to her right to do so, and denounced for trying to upend not just 50 years of racial progress, but progress dating back to the Civil War.

    She has every right to do so, and maybe more students should demand courts expose and render opinions on what goes on in those admissions committee boardrooms.


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