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Michael Maiello's picture

The Hijinks Of The Conservative Mind

Remember back when Rand Paul got into trouble for saying that he wouldn't have supported the landmark civil rights legislation that outlawed such perverse practices as segregated drinking fountains and "whites only" lunch counters? 

Well, at least Paul was able to marshal a libertarian, market-based defense of his ideas (before he realized that this was a stupid move and that he should instead publicly change his mind without admitting it).  The argument goes something like this:  Society evolves.  People learn that racism is stupid.  They choose not to frequent "whites only" lunch counters because they are deemed ugly and distasteful places and a lot of them go out of business.

As for the ones that stay in business -- don't let them worry you.  If you don't like them, don't patronize them.  If other people do like them and keep them afloat, well, that's their right.  You don't have to associate with those people either, if you don't want to.

The argument is problematic if you're like me and think that the government should make rules to help make society, including the individuals who comprise it, better off.  And, of course, people have pointed out that no "whites only" lunch counter exists in a societal vacuum.  If it catches fire, would its owners not expect black firefighters to put out that blaze, just like they would any other?  If it is robbed, would they not expect black police officers, or police officers paid by taxes paid by black fellow citizens, to investigate the crime?

The conservative answer to this is that private property rights are so important that they trump such minor ethical dilemmas.  Your property is yours to do with what you will.  Invite black people over!  Or don't!

And the very consistent conservative would also say that when a black person owns a restaurant or home or business that they can exclude white people if that's their druthers, right?  Again, some one who thought that way might well risk running out of friends and patrons, but it's a darned individual right to discriminate.

Unless you're a Hispanic business owner in Dallas and you own a chain of pizza restaurants called Pizza Patron.  The owners here are happy, of course, to serve white people.  But they're also running a special promotion.  If you order in Spanish at certain times, a large one topping pie is free.  You don't have to speak Spanish.  "Yo quiero pizza, por favor," will do fine -- if you've seen a Taco Bell commcercial, you can get a free pizza.  You certainly don't have to be Hispanic -- if you're an eskimo who has seen a Taco Bell commercial, you can get a free pizza.

And, besides, it's their store and they own it and if they want to say "order in Spanish or not at all," (which is not even what they're saying) they have the right and I'd expect all good conservatives to stand up for them.

"It seems to punish people who can't speak Spanish, and I resent that," says Peter Thomas, chairman of the Conservative Caucus, which advocates English as the nation's spoken language. "In public areas, people should be speaking English, and that includes pizza parlors."

It's almost as if they don't have a consistent worldview at all and that they in fact support separate sets of rules for white and nonwhite people.  But at least this Thomas guy has some convictions.  The man won't say "por favor" even if there's free pizza on the line.

Racism brings consistency to otherwise inconsistent arguments.

Jews back Jews, Blacks back Blacks, Asians back Asians and its all fine and dandy.

So why not Whites? Why is it suddenly racism if Whites back Whites?

You realize that the issue at hand here is free pizza for customers who order in rudimentary Spanish, right? Aye dios mio.

Lets start with ..... Por favor                                    What immigration problem? 

Aye dios mio.

Whiteland for Whites! 

Greenland for Greens! 

The Caucasus for Caucasians!

Is that you Rep Mike Coffman? Or is that you, Joe Ricketts?

Are you wearing your hoodie?

Once you and your descendants go through 10 generations of interracial marriage, interracial housing, interracial schools with blacks, then you should dare to lecture others.

 

You live in white majority housing, with white spouse and you dare to accuse others?

 

What nonsense?

Let's be clear.  I'm not white.  I'm olive-complected.

Also, are you kidding?

I suspect he's confusing you with Ric Flair.

How could Sanjay Gupta let me down like this?  I mean, because there's no doubt that this person is Sanjay Gupta, right?

Dude. 

Well, as a matter of fact, we are kind of at that point.

Most blacks, as I understand it, have "white blood" in them from all kinds of forced and unforced copulations.

It is hard to SEE the white blood, I grant you, because it mostly all looks red. Nonetheless, to the educated eye...

Also, we should ban all use of Italian in pizza parlors. Such as the word "pizza."

1) I think it was Ron Paul, not Rand (Ron's the one with logical arguments)

2) I think in the EU having a minority-language requirement would be problematic, though obviously "por favor" is pretty trivial.

3) You ignore one salient comment from your article: ""Maybe they thought it was a cute thing to do, but I think it's discrimination," said Hispanic Marketing Group president Marcela Gomez. "As an advertising agency, I would never recommend this to my client."

​4) Imagine the outrage if I said, "I'm trying to make our bond with the White community stronger":

But the company, which says it is honoring the "positive force of change immigrants have made in communities throughout America," clearly disagrees.

"It makes perfect sense for us," said Pizza Patrón's brand director, Andrew Gamm. "We're trying to make our bond with the Hispanic community stronger."

This from a company that started accepting Mexican pesos - i.e. foreign currency - as payment. (yes, financially it makes sense for Mexicans and a few others crossing the border with pesos, but with a largely underground illegal population, it's more incindiary)

5) So people who support the rights of business owners to choose their clientele are expected to support that right for *OTHERS* when it will never be extended to them. (except perhaps in 2100 when whites have become a minority in the US).

6) US government and companies have gone out of their way to create additional support in Spanish - phone menus, marketing collaterals, dedicated staff, etc. While the "por favor" campaign is trivial and a bit cute, but when the Hispanic population increased from 22.4 m in 1990 to 35.3 m in 2000 to 50.5 m in 2010, many aren't thrilled with the Hispanization of the country, and a demand that we speak Spanish to get a benefit in the US brings that irritation into the open.

(And I'm fluent in Spanish, with a degree in Spanish Literature, and have taught Spanish along with other languages to both my kids, including the important phrase "Yo quiero Taco Bell)

 

 

That the peso thing is incendiary is funny to me.  In the investment industry, where I currently make my living, people make decisions to take payment in other currencies all of the time.  Heck, just a few months ago, hedge funder Bill Ackman suggested that smart people should open up a savings account at an American branch of a Hong Kong bank, denominated in Hong Kong dollars, to profit if the Chinese government ever depegs the Hong Kong dollar from the American one.  This is no different a business decision than choosing to accept payment in pesos, a currency that could well appreciate against the dollar over time.

Sure it is, because Bill Ackman's suggestion is unlikely to be helpful to Hispanic immigrants. Anything that could possibly help Hispanic immigrants (and usually by extension, Hispanic undocumented immigrants) is incendiary.

Fine, but with a heavy influx of undocumented workers working in foreign currency, it's a bit of an issue, no? Obviously the guys that make money off it are fine - the guys who might lose jobs to illegal labor (a long discussion) might be a bit teed off.

In all seriousness, I get that. However, their problem should be with the immigration policies (including stronger enforcement at the businesses who hire undocumented workers) and not with business owners whose policy also benefits Mexican immigrants who are here legally, including Mexican tourists. I get that many people aren't going to want to make such nuanced distinctions, but wouldn't it be nice if at least people one might expect some education from (such as Peter Thomas) could?

3) You ignore one salient comment from your article: ""Maybe they thought it was a cute thing to do, but I think it's discrimination," said Hispanic Marketing Group president Marcela Gomez. "As an advertising agency, I would never recommend this to my client."

It would discrimination if the requirement were that you BE hispanic to get the free pizza. But being able to "perform a trick" or show some special aptitude is the stuff of special offers.

 I will get the Nobel Prize for my 'The Theory of Everything', [not the biggest mistake they might make] before I resolve my conflicted feelings about immigration. Lucky for me though, and I have a feeling it is true for you also, I like Mexicans and other Hispanics.

 

Actually meant that comment as a response to Pericles but I don't now mean for my edit to exclude  anyone else.

Lulu, the all-inclusive one. Yes, I like Mexican culture (see "Erendira" for a real Colombian-influenced gem), and I like Mexican-influenced culture in the US (e.g. Denver & "Los"), including that tweaked multicultural mesh from Repo Man to the latest wave of Mexican bands & film.

I just never guessed we'd be speaking Spanish in Alabama and Minnesota.

Is "Conquistador" Spanish enough?

Here all along, I thought we won the Spanish /American War 

Evidently not. 

The French missed a great opportunity.They should have flocked to New Orleans during the French/Indian War, then have millions upon millions of kids and we'd all be speaking French.  

Or think about all those Asian coolies that built the railroad, if they would have proliferated like rabbits, we'd all be speaking Mandarin.

For pizza ........Hmmm dont stop there; maybe a slice of a country? Forget the slice, give us the whole enchilada,  the Grande United States of America. 

What happened to the Mayans or the Incas? 

Did the Borg assimilate them? 

But I thought that we all are God's children regardless of which of earth's countries where any are born or their ethnicity.   Isn't Christianity and the tenet 'love thy neighbor....' universal?  

Only if you speak English - the language of the Bible.

If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

But why does a Jewish carpenter have a Puerto Rican name?

He's a day laborer.

So what should we do about ordering Mexican fare from a menu if it's 'wrong' to speak another language?  What's the 'english' for taco,  quesadilla, enchilada?   

Any foreign furrin word can be anglicized Americanized by saying that, the word, and then thing, thingie, thingamabob or thingamajig. So go to Pizza Patron and say "Give me that Yo quiero Pizza thingie, and I'm paying with these Peso thingamabobs ... por favor. Does that work?"

It might be prudent to just point at menu item, so as to ensure not to incur wrath of 'border patrol wannabes' or be accused of being UnAmerican.  Guess should do same whenever at any establishment serving 'foreign' fare.  

Don't say "Give me that free pizza, you Taco muncher" 

I'm pretty sure that Jesus was implying only to love one's northern neighbors (and not necessarily all of them).

Its evident Aunt Sam you are NO Christian

America as do most other  countries, has an immigration policy,  it is a law. 

Aunt Sam, you promote rebellion against god, then accuse Christains who obey God.    

Romans 13:1

 "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
(Romans 13:1-7 ESV)

Nothing turns me away from Christianity as fast as some twerp cherry-picking the bible to support his bigotry.

Ezekiel, 25:17:

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the
Inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in
The name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of
Darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost
Children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious
Anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know
My name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

And, of course...

Austin, 3:16"

"I just kicked yer ass!"

Gandolf:

“It is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.”

You have no authority/standing/right to judge who is and who isn't  Christian.

We were not addressing immigration laws, but the whole pizza promo and people's reactions - i.e how we treat others, regardless of a person's ethnicity, race, creed, religion, et al.  

How silly to make judgments based on language preference.

Amen.

Knowing how Q recently highlighted your propensity to attack others, I felt you were attacking me.

I hadn’t known you before,  to come to my aid, to promote Christian tenants against those, who if they could, would impale me. Where were YOU? Where have you been, when others have attacked me, for speaking out in support of Christian values?

The Lord says you disown me, I'll disown you 

You’re correct, I was too judgmental, I apologize

I felt you were judging me.

No where else, have I ever seen you bring out Christian tenants and you choose a pizza promo to step up? 

 

But I thought that we all are God's children regardless of which of earth's countries where any are born or their ethnicity.   Isn't Christianity and the tenet 'love thy neighbor....' universal? 

Your response to my post,  about ethnic groups, which have attempted to conquer America and my earlier use of the term “Conquistadors, gave you the opportunity to tell me about Christian tenants?  

I should have seen the trap, I should have asked you to clarify, how you thought, reminding me about “love thy neighbor” has anything to do with a pizza promo.  

You say we weren’t addressing immigration laws;   BUT YOU WERE when you brought up in your prior post “We are all Gods Children”   Then bring out the term most used, by advocates of the open borders crowd,” Love thy neighbor” 

Aunt Sam, Satan's Surrogates would do these sorts of things, NOT A CHRISTIAN     

Satan Ate My Government! Is an affront to all Christians 

I've just discovered that it was YOU,  that brought forth this trash talk.

B

How many times are you going to edit this dumb comment?

As many times I feel the point is properly made, surrogate 

Let me point out something about American history, Resistance.

Most Spanish speakers in Texas are not immigrants. (And many of those who are are perfectly legal) They were born there. To Spanish-speaking parents.

People have been speaking Spanish in Texas since long before it was part of the United States. You remember the Alamo, right?  With Davy Crockett and the boys fighting the Mexicans because they were in the middle of Mexico? Right.

Then a bunch of people who had always been Mexicans, in Mexico, were now in the Republic of Texas, and then in the United States. It isn't immigration if you were staying put.

That, of course, is why Texas has a Spanish name. So if you don't want to speak Spanish in Texas, don't say Texas.

Or Alamo.

You figure, just because Mexico claims all territory of the West, they are entitled to disregard the indigenous tribes?

Mexicans telling the Apaches in Arizona, We the Mexican Government, claim all these lands.

Mexico telling tribes of California, this is our land now.  

As I remember, Texas had both American and Mexican immigrants. 

Take note of the reversal 

1) Santa Anna fearing the Americans were about to take control of Texas, brought in his troops to impose his rule.  

2) Santa Anna  Americans fearing the Americans  Mexicans were are about to take control of Texas, America, brought in his troops to impose his  their rule.  

Its okay for Santa Anna to try to kick Americans out;  but when Americans try the same thing, some people call foul? 

 

Is it possible?  

While America was busy fighting the French/ Indian war -  1763

Louisiana purchase 1803

Then the war of 1812, 

While we were preoccupied defending against invaders from across the Atlantic;  the Spanish conquerors saw an opportunity, to cut off Americas opportunity to expand west?  

They knew we had eyes on the west  (Louisiana purchase 1803)  Knowing full well, they couldn't hold control of it anyway, they tried to block us .

When America could finally focus towards the west 

Only to find, the Mexican opportunists had tried a land grab 

Alamo 1836  

Just as the French and the British, tried to stick this new country, called The United States of America.

Santa Anna tried and he temporarily succeeded. We fought back against his expansionist plans. 

Liz, thank you 

Tu quoque is an especially egregious logical fallacy coming from someone who pretends to be a Christian. (Mama, sis hit me! He hit me first! Did not! Did too!)

Two wrongs don't make a right. That's not to say we can't have a sensible immigration policy, but to justify ethnic intolerance (handed out to both those who are here illegally and those who are here legally) on a basis that the ethnicity in question has a history of intolerance itself leads to a never ending vicious circle.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Source unsure, possibly from Gandhi

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall; who's the fairest Democrat, best person, most progressive of them all?   

With your vanity, I  suppose you convince yourself; it's you? 

The only intolerance I have, is for unlawfulness.

Legal immigrants are welcome.

Your intolerance, as expressed by your name , leads to a never ending vicious cycle.

You built the strawman of intolerance. When all that I implied was, I am against land grabbing 

My name does not suggest any intolerance, only what my beliefs are. Only one intolerant of atheists would claim that calling oneself an atheist implies intolerance.

I have never claimed to be the most progressive, the best person, or the fairest Democrat. I think perhaps you're projecting.

What you implied, and that I find objectionable, is that you have a problem with a promo involving people ordering in Spanish. That's intolerance, and it also affects legal immigrants.

okay

Unless you're a Hispanic business owner in Dallas and you own a chain of pizza restaurants called Pizza Patron.

I still think it sounds better if you say:

Unless you are an Hispanic business owner in Dallas...

But that is just my take!

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