This is such a large issue that has been all but ignored for years and now the web cannot talk about anything else except for economic Armageddon and food stamps and....

I was reading about Alabama today. I mean that state not only got rid of the 'illegals' but their relatives also left their 'posts'.

Now the tyrants claim that unemployment has gone from about 9.5% to 7.2%. So citizens have been applying for the jobs abandoned by the immigrants.

But they are having problems keeping the new employees.

The one wonderful stat listed was that tomato pickers make $16.00 for every filled crate. And then the article states that a good picker can only fill two or three crates. Well I am not great math wiz but $32.00 would translate to four bucks an hour. And there would be withholding?

And the descriptions of the headless chickens being defeathered as they go down the assembly line by workers (with a real talent for this feat that I would never master) makes me ill. Think of the smells and the germs and the....all for five bucks an hour?

Why do demons crawl out of my head every time I think about this? And plantations were destroyed 150 years ago.

It is hard to even stay on subject when three separate devils are staring at me from the wall in front of my pc telling me I should grab THE LITTLE RED BOOK and begin calling for a.....see? I almost forgot about the Patriot Act!

But Alabama's 'experiment' is making employers mad!

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8760288-immigrant-worke...

Thats an old link but who cares?

Then I ran across this from Arizona:

On the same day that President Obama announced a policy that will make it easier for young undocumented immigrants to remain in the United States, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office arrested a 6-year-old girl suspected of coming to America illegally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/joe-arpaios-arrests-six-year-old_n_1603883.html

Now there are six spectors hissing at me from the walls and the ceiling.

I mean do you think Arpaio read the little girl her rights? And what language was used?

I do know that the President has managed to throw out more than a million folks without proper papers--something w bush never did. And how many innocents were there who simply misplaced their papers?

See, How in the hell can anyone stay on subject with regard to immigration?

Anyway, thanks for the post!

Nothing like throwing the moral burden, on the rest of us citizens?

Of course humanity feels for these kids; more so than the parents that endangered their children's lives in the first place, when they stealthily crossed the inhospitable deserts, in deadly heat.

Charge the parents with reckless endangerment. 

Now the supporters of amnesty, want to shift the responsibility onto those who have opposed ILLEGAL immigration from the start;  knowing full well, this day would come. 

We were LIED to;  when Reagan gave the first Amnesty, and those with a conscience were promised enforcement,  when we compromised for humanitarian reasons back then.  

How did the moral issue of how to deal with this problem back in Reagan’s day, be so flagrantly ignored so now we have another humanitarian dilemma? 

Those in support of Open borders and their outright opposition to enforcement, saying in effect

“It’s not our problem; we made it your problem.  We don't want enforcement, we want open borders.  "You deal with the problems of Open borders, not us.  

Solution

I have suggested helping to build an American enclave in the region around Rocky point.  

An Americanized region, set up just for this very purpose, in response to the moral dilemma thrown upon those, who said all along,  SECURE THE BORDER; ….we don’t want another Amnesty solution which serves the Open Border agenda, we want the enforcement solution, we were promised .

Secure the border and we wouldn’t need amnesty.  Except;  the Open Border  crowd doesn’t want enforcement.  

If the government had done its job, we wouldn't have had to give amnesty.   

Amnesty will never end; it’s the fall back tool for  advocates for Open Borders.

Unrestrained and illegal immigration, is not the “Open Border” crowds problem, it’s your problem; the more heart wrenching the better.

I was thinking of an analogy yesterday.

Let's say my grandpa used to own a country club. But he lost it due to back taxes, sold it off for some reason.... But I'm still attached to that club, used to go there every day. So I crawl the wall one day, find someone who lets me work the club, washing dishes or waiting tables, not like an owner as before. But it's okay, so I get a few friends over the wall as well, and they work.

Eventually the club finds out, and decides I should be thrown out, no hard feelings, but there are members' kids looking for work, there are employment regulations. But this club was once mine! I exclaim. I'm productive! I'm not hurting anyone!

(If only my dad had snuck me into Stanford, that American "well, we can't punish the child for the parents' sins" attitude would have made me wealthy - I could have founded Facebook!)

Of course that "productive" has measures - some people are productive to a measure of $500K/year in terms of sales, design output, management skill, etc. Some people are productive to the tune of $20K. Most illegal immigrants are near the poverty line. Many work hard. But in the economic definition of the term, they are not very "productive". That of course partly depends on the shadow economy where they have to work. And part depends on their lack of training, skills, education.

And then there's the basic of the "get your kids to America" sprint. Of course many people want the best opportunity for their kids. Iran & Congo & Indonesia don't have an adjacent wall to climb. So millions of illegals make the gamble of getting their kids across the line, which we now embrace as a home-free strategy. 

I'd say this will encourage more waves, though one big change has happened. Mexicans now have fewer kids than Mexican-Americans. There is less poverty, less desperation, less need to come to the US. In some ways NAFTA is working by balancing standards of living, in some ways Mexico is entering the behavior of the successful industrialized/service-oriented world.

So we've got half the poorest of the poor here. "very brave" - like when I snuck into the Dead concert, right? just climb a fence, I'm in. Ok, they paid someone to get them across and lived underground. For a financial advantage. "get them market salaries" - oh right, among American blacks is up to 13.6%, and here we're proposing acting like headhunters for our illegal population?

I may sound cynical and wingnut, but I wish someone with liberal ideas would discuss this issue in terms where it didn't sound like we owed them anything. The key to the EU may not be in austerity towards Greece, but the Greeks were tax-evading, double book-keeping jerks on the way in. It may be the way to dealing with illegal immigration here is not deportation, but treating the 12 million illegals as heroes and victims of human rights abuse because we didn't welcome them with stock options gets weary.

people willing to walk two thousand miles, leaving all that is familiar behind, in the hope of a better life, are people you want in your country. Geography is destiny, fuck the line. This is only a problem in the first place because of that racist scumbag Calhoun.

Thanks all. I'll go a-looking. Appreciate your taking the time.