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    Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders Tap In To The Same Frustration

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    I am not sure how many Dagblog readers are aware of Jonah Goldberg. Goldberg is the modern conservative intellectual heavyweight, if there can be such a thing. He replaced William F. Buckley in heading the conservative magazine National Review and he has written a number of silly books including Liberal Fascism, a strange book that features a happy face with a Hitler mustache on it. (He's not very original so he probably got that idea from Alan Moore's Watchmen graphic novel.)

    I've met Goldberg and heard him talk. He lives on a strange planet in which fascism, the worst scourge of the twentieth century, was somehow a creation of the political left and the right, including the magazine he heads, had nothing to do with it and in which his visionary society is one in which the "government is regulated to taking out my trash" (something I actually heard him say). Nevertheless a broken clock is correct twice a day and so was the case with his latest column about Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, in which he acknowledges the clear and obvious - that both Sanders and Trump are tapping in to the same deep frustration:

    What is fascinating is that through Sanders and Trump couldn't be more different culturally, their programs overlap a great deal. "What right-wing people in this country love is an open-border policy," Sanders said recently. "Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that."

    Trump's immigration paper states that "real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first - not wealthy globe trotting donors."

    Goldberg notes towards the end (his columns aren't very long or thought provoking beyond a few simple observations) that "the establishments of both parties have proved pitifully inept in fending off their respective nationalist and socialist insurgencies," making it abundantly clear who in society Goldberg speaks for.

    Nevertheless his observation is correct. Sanders and Trump are tapping in to the same frustration. Sanders is clearly running a far more serious campaign and has even referred to The Donald as a "national embarrassment." There are clear differences even if they are starting at the same point - Sanders is taking the frustration to its logical conclusion - laying the blame at corporations that intentionally cheapen labor for their benefit - while Trump cheapens that frustration for old school, ugly xenophobia and nativism. No one else in either party knows how to tap in to that frustration, however, and many of them are in part responsible for it being as deep as it now is. Until another candidate can, it may well be Sanders versus Trump in 2016.

    Comments

    When I read a column from this source I am suspicious of it, as I am of the meme of similarities between Sanders' and Trump's adherents. Honestly, I don't see the comparison. Bernie,and followers, it seems,  still want to work within a democratic structure but Trump and his followers want to burn the place down. Mostly I think the Republican establishment is trying to rationalize the emergence of Trump, and dragging Sanders and his folks into the equation is a back handed way of doing it.

     


    Incisive point: Republican establishment is trying to rationalize the emergence of Trump, and dragging Sanders and his folks into the equation is a back handed way of doing it.

    Kill 2 with one stone.


    I am an ex-conservative so I still am hooked in to that world, much more than a progressive would probably dare to be. I watched the Republican debate in full and listened to his interviews with guys like Hugh Hewitt and Bill O'Reilly. They remain as perplexed (in Hewitt's case) and as hostile (in O'Reilly's case) to his success as anyone on the left.

    The Left makes a big mistake in seeing him as another dumb conservative just as the Right makes a mistake in thinking he is a carnival barker that will go away so Cruz or Bush can jump in. His politics are much more like a right wing candidate in Europe - he wants all sorts of social programs but wants to tighten immigration and deport "illegal" immigrants and to stop acting as the world's policeman.

    There is a Sanders connection. We have gone, as a country, from always having center right free marketers as our leaders on both parties to having a nationalist and a democratic socialist as our front runners. This is a really critical shift.


    We are due for a political realignment because of a generational change.  I am not sure if this country will settle for European political alignment. I am old enough to remember New Deal era before the Koch's started to buy changes in our politics.  Sanders is really a New Deal Democrat which is today's Social Democrats.

    Community Colleges were free or low fees when I was a kid. My parents bought their property in 1946 inside the city limits of Akron because their children would be able to attend Buchtel College for free as a city resident. That changed 15 years later when it became a state university.  So what Sanders is running on is very much New Deal ideas and issues. He is modernizing it to meet minorities needs.  This is really important and needed to push back on the civil rights backlash that put the Republicans in control. 

    The GOP is the party that is really out of sink right now and have lost their moorings. They have been in the weeds for the last decade thrashing around.  There is a big difference with Trump and the current GOP platform. 


    Orion, I don't think you get the people here. Many of us are political junkies. Many of us are reading or watching republicans like O'Reilly, Erickson and Coulter. Many progressives "dare" to read anything. I've read both Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as well as books by Limbaugh, Coulter etc. I have no idea where you get this " probably dare to be" idea but it seems condescending to me.


    Frank Luntz was doing the same thing trying to tie Sanders and Trump together. I am with you Oxy I see them trying to use the idea of extreme lefties to muddy up the water for Trump.

    I also just read a blog by 538 on Wordpress where Silver and company is interviewing each other on why Sanders will not win the election. The pointed out He don't have the support of the African Americans because he is too left for them. The African Americans in their opinion is to conservative for Sanders. Sanders was really only attracting white liberal males. It is a rather lazy meme to put out.  There is a lot more going then that, Nate. 

    We are going to read more of this comparison of Trump and Sanders. 

     


    It is time to revert to "2001".

    "HAL, what do you see as the similarities between yourself and the typical T-Rump-ex follower?"


    Let me give you some advice Orion. I have never heard of Jonah Goldberg before, when I see a name of some pundit pontificating some Republican BS I look up his books on Amazon.

    For instance, take Stephen Moore, former Wall Street Journal editor, currently chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, frequent pundit on NPR and TV as an example.

    You look over the books, and then the reviews, if necessary. (Not necessary for Moore.)

    Stephen Moore: 2004, Bullish on Bush, How George Bush's Owenership Society Will Make America Stronger...........2014 Crash Landing: How Bush, Bernanke, Pelosi and Obama Have Wrecked the U.S. Economy (And How to Salvage America's Future)

    Do you see a problem with this guy? He is a propagandist for the right. Trust nothing from this guy.

    2004 Bullish on Bush,strong America etc, Bush presumably doing what the Wall Street Journal and Moore believe in, then.....2014 Bush thrown under the bus with Obama and Pelosi.

    BTW - The 2014 book is tough to find now as it was pulled before printing.  The economy was clearly not wrecked.  It survived as an audio book at the link which apparently came out before Moore could pull it and throw it in the dustbin.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Now to look at Goldberg.

    Writer for the National Review a politcal organ of the right, and a meal ticket for writers who come up with ingenious inventions The (ignorant, uninformed) Base will love if it attacks liberals. And Goldberg does that, making liberals the source of all evil, even evil of the Nazis.

    Jonah Goldberg, 2 books. Both vehemently anti-liberal.

    Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning

    by Jonah Goldberg (Jan 8, 2008)

    The Tyranny of Clichés: How Liberals Cheat in the War of Ideas

    by Jonah Goldberg (May 1, 2012)

    So let's look at the 1 star reviews, lets look at Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning. Why?

    Because it says Liberal Fascism ! How unique! Hitler was a liberal! Who wudda thought!

     We look up the Top 1 star review, on this page, it makes some very cogent points:

    ...Fascism is a version of this kind of capitalism: it begins as a violent, reactionary populism that blames organized labor for the decline of traditional values--such as the family, the church, and the nation--and it ends up as an anti-labor military state, which devotes its resources to maintaining profits for the private sector....Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social." One of fascism's main features as a an economic system, then, is re-enforcement of profits at the public's expense....... the fascists were vehemently opposed to socialism and everything that socialists stood for. Like Hitler, Mussolini crushed his country's labor movement as soon as he assumed power.

    Hitler was not 'liberal' for the people and the unions?

    OK, Look at the badge coding system for the concentration and death camps of the Nazis. You have probably heard of Jews getting a Yellow 6 pointed star.

    There were other emblems:

    Under single triangles in Wikipedia Nazi Concentration Camp Badges we find:

    Red trianglepolitical prisoners: social democrats, socialists, trade unionists, Freemasons,

    communists, and anarchists.

    Still think Goldberg's thesis that Nazi's were liberals and social democrats?

    From that 1 star review again:

    ..The Nazis gave their organization a left-sounding name to garner popular support, and they appealed to imagery that appeared to praise the working class. Yet as soon as Hitler assumed power, he implemented "Operation Hummingbird," in which all socialists in the Nazi party were executed. Likewise, Mussolini's Squadistri--the "Blackshirts"--were also hired by private businesses as strikebreakers, union-busters, and as a "front against Bolshevism."

    Jonah Goldberg is a right wing propagandist, a deceiver spreading falsehoods to intentionally distort facts, reality and history.  Everything he writes should be assumed to follow that pattern.


    Goldberg took over the National Review in a board room coup and pushed out Bill Buckley's son from being the editor. The experienced Buckley writing staff left after that.  The National Review readership declined and has not regained back to where it once was. Goldberg is really no heavy weight he sent this article to all kinds of internet web pages to get published on line. 


    Thank you for extrapolating on what I mentioned in the original article.


    NCD, I keep asking myself what the end game is of Goldberg, Luntz, etc., pushing this meme. The obvious one is that if Sanders does fall back in the primary, Trump and/or Cruz are still pulling enough weight within the Republican party that somehow the disenchanted Sanders voters would migrate to Trump. I'm sure there are better theories of why they're doing it. But I do think there is a double bank shot in their evil little minds. Luntz is smarter than to arrive at such a conclusion even though he made the comparison for consumption.


    If Hillary overcomes Sanders, she better move in his direction, or they may go to Trump, but they would be crazy to do so.

    The big business guys who employ dangerous kiss ass shills like Goldberg will almost certainly go for Trump over any Democrat.

    Feeling they can gain control of his policy and use him to do their bidding.

    By the GOP control over Congress, and by buying off, literally, policy/cabinet people around him. Although, it might not work out that way.
     


    They don't know what they are doing.  The 1% purged the smart ones out a long time ago. There must be a argument going on behind closed doors with this party.  Luntz's social engineering jingles are not really working with the unhappy base.  Fox has tried and tried to get a big scandal going for the last 6 years and nothing is sticking. Rove crashed and burned in the 2012 election.  He could not deliver what was promised to the 1%. Roger Ailes contract with Fox is up next year before the election.  The scuttlebug on that is the Murdoch sons don't like him at all. 

    I don't think they have a real end game. 


    Interesting nugget from his Wiki page:

    Goldberg’s career as a pundit was launched following his mother Lucianne Goldberg's role in the Clinton–Lewinsky scandal, when he wrote about the "media siege" on his mother’s apartment in The New Yorker. [3][4] Goldberg has spoken of his mother and the Lewinsky scandal:

    My mother was the one who advised Linda Tripp to record her conversations with Monica Lewinsky and to save the dress. I was privy to some of that stuff, and when the administration set about to destroy Lewinsky, Tripp, and my mom, I defended my mom and by extension Tripp... I have zero desire to have those arguments again. I did my bit in the trenches of Clinton's trousers.

    These tapes became the focal point of the Lewinsky scandal. Goldberg was privy to the tapes and the conversations his mother had with Tripp because he served as a vice president of his mother's now-defunct literary agency. When the scandal broke, Goldberg defended his mother and Tripp during the ensuing media firestorm.

    There are all sorts of articles available via the Google machine about Sanders/Trump comparisons - aka false equivalencies. This particular one by Mr. Goldberg is among the least substantial. The subject is not unworthy of spirited debate, Orion, but choosing his piece may not be the place to start.


    Goldberg - routing around in Clinton's trousers, not surprised. Sure tells who he is. And the mother!

    A differential psychological diagnosis of Goldberg would have to include megalomania or some form of extreme narcissistic insanity.  Guys who will do or say anything are always useful to fascists.


    I am going to defend Orion on his point about the right not wanting to give up social programs and gravitating to Trump.  

    It took me a little while to find this.  Krugman this past week had an Op Ed piece about the invisible primary that is held by Republicans.  There is just 130 families that donate the majority of the money to the Republican candidates. They don't like social programs and especially social security.  W was going to privatize it and found out no one really wanted that.  But the rich wants the program gone because they don't want to pay into it. So the republican base has had to put up with listening to politicians bash that program that they depend on in order to push back on minorities. 

    Wealthy individuals have long played a disproportionate role in politics, but we’ve never seen anything like what’s happening now: domination of campaign finance, especially on the Republican side, by a tiny group of immensely wealthy donors. Indeed, more than half the funds raised by Republican candidates through June came from just 130 families.

    And while most Americans love Social Security, the wealthy don’t. Two years ago a pioneering study of the policy preferences of the very wealthy found many contrasts with the views of the general public; as you might expect, the rich are politically different from you and me. But nowhere are they as different as they are on the matter of Social Security. By a very wide margin, ordinary Americans want to see Social Security expanded. But by an even wider margin, Americans in the top 1 percent want to see it cut. And guess whose preferences are prevailing among Republican candidates.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/17/opinion/republicans-against-retirement.html  

    Trump came along and upset their whole system of financing elections.  Bush, Walker, and Rubio has collected huge amounts of money in their super pacs by promising to give the wealthy what they want.  They have committed to this but the voters are happy to support Trump who is not going to take away popular programs and have promise to make them even better, also still beat up on minorities and women.  

    Trump knows what he is doing and is not going to stop until he is defeated.  

     

     


    This gets at the meat of the lack of similarity. Trump's followers want to keep what they have and deny what they consider ill gotten gains by minorities and immigrants. They think big government is at the root of the problem, and essentially want to dissolve it.

    Sanders wants to use government to make life better for all, and redistribution---the bane of the Tea Party core of Trump's followers---is an acceptable use of government.


    Agree. Trump is one of the stingiest billionaires on the planet, I think Motherjones may have had an article on it.

    Was it reported the WWF once gave more money to Trump's own charity organization than Trump did?

    A guy who loves money is not going to tax away his other wealthy people's money and give it to the poor.

     


    Monroe gets it. there are people pushing the Austrian economics stuff in Europe too - it's where it came from after all - but it was always nationalists who won elections, from Nazis to the National Front or Berlusconi in Italy. There's plenty of poor white people who don't want the entitlement programs they depend on taken from them but are more than willing to glare at the minorities they see in line with them at the welfare office.


    The fallacy in Goldberg's piece is that Trump and Sanders are not tapping into the same frustration. Before discussing the impact of immigration practices it is best to see it in the context of the larger problem of Capital mobility. Joel Blau says it best in his book Illusions of Prosperity:

    The new, post-Keynesian market thrives not on greater aggregate demand, but on economic insecurity. From a defense of entitlements to full employment and universalistic social programs, any increase in economic security therefore heightens the risk of capital flight. Capital mobility has intensified as an ordinary part of doing business. Nevertheless, faced with a secure, confident and ever-more demanding labor force, many more U.S. businesses might pick themselves up and move overseas.

    What Sanders is saying recognizes this larger context. What Trump is saying denies it and thus defends fhe prerogatives of laissez-faire economics.

    The false equivalence committed by Goldberg is that Sanders arguing against an "open border" policy is not a part of a "socialist insurgency." We do not have an open border policy now but a poorly managed border system that is not adequately enforcing the laws presently on the books. Trump is calling for changes that create new problems of their own. If the birthright basis of citizenship is to be qualified in some fashion, what will be the criteria? Who will draft and enforce those rules? Nothing Sanders has said even remotely raises the specter of such powers being given to the government.


    I think there are two significant ways in which Trump's and Sanders' current success can be analogized.  Both base their appeal on the plight of poor, working, and formerly middle-income Americans who, over the past 30 years, have seen any hope they may have had for themselves or their children of attaining the American dream evanesce.  Additionally, both are seen as outside the Washington political establishment.  Trump - because his wealth insulates him from the influence of other big-money donors.  Sanders - because he refuses corporate support and has demonstrated fierce independence over his past 33 years in elected office.

    There the similarities end.  Fascist Trump scapegoats an even weaker other (immigrants) and an easy punching bag (feckless Washington insiders) for failing to do something to stem the stream of "rapists" and job stealers who in Trump's telling are responsible for destroying America's middle class.  There's an easy, but not cheap, comparison here with Hitler.  The Nazi rose to power by scapegoating Jews for all of Germany's woes and promising that he, unlike Weimar's weak-willed career politicians, would do something to solve the problem. 

    Democratic socialist Sanders correctly links specific government policies, e.g., regressive tax policies, "free trade" pacts, and cuts to social service programs, to the economic and racial injustice that stalks the land.   Sanders also identifies the direct correlation between the rising influence of corporatists and plutocrats over our elections to these policies.  Because, unlike every other announced candidate, Sanders has devoted his career to improving the quality of life for all non-wealthy Americans, sees most clearly how we can accomplish this goal, and why we haven't yet, I support him unreservedly for President.


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