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by MrSmith1 8/14/2012 - 6:05 pm
 
If you have any Republican friends on Facebook, no doubt you've seen all the "We have to take our country back!"  banners that Tea Party types like to post ad nauseam. 
 
I saw one again the other day that read:  "NOT a Democrat, NOT a Republican, Just an American that wants to take his country back!!"  Being in a snarky mood, I posted: a response that simply said, "From Whom?" .. My comment was deleted within minutes..
 
And that got me thinking ...  What if Obama wins BIG.   Like say, 350 to 188 Electoral votes ... Will anything change?  I mean, how many National elections will the Right Wing have to lose before they will agree that the Will of the People has spoken?  Will they EVER acknowledge that their ideas have been rejected by a majority of Americans?
 
What is the likelihood that a Romney loss will force them to re-think their positions on either their issues or their obstructionist tactics?  Any chance at all? A snowball's chance? If no chance at all, then what would it take?  Nuclear annihilation of the RNC?   Setting them all adrift on rapidly melting ice floes?  A lifetime gift coupon from Chick-a-fil?
 
I have this odd dream;  I would love to see Democrats in this election cycle start confronting the obstructionist Right Wingers and ask them directly if they support the American form of government.  When the Right-wingers  get all, "Well, of course, I do", then the Dems follow up and ask if they will commit to Constitutional governing and abide by the notion that the will of the Majority rules or will they continue the obstruction that has brought governing on a Federal level to a virtual standstill.

 
Perhaps Democrats could even send Republican members of Congress an open letter:
 
 
Dear GOP,
 
If the 2012 election somehow doesn't go "your way", will you accept that the will of the majority has spoken and allow the country to be governed, as was intended by the Founding Fathers and specifically laid out in the Constitution, or will you continue to insist that somehow the will of the majority matters only when you are the majority? 
 
Wouldn't true patriots work together to govern and abide by the rule of the majority? That's the way the Founding Fathers envisioned it.  Seems to us that only sore losers obstruct and refuse to accept the will of the people.  Which begs the question, 'Are you true patriots or sore losers?'
 
P.S.  If you don't agree to governing by majority rules, then we believe we can rightly ask; 'Why does the GOP hate America and hate Democracy?'

Very truly yours,  

The Democrats
 
 
-------------------
 
 
Yeah, I know, it'll never happen ... But if it did ...

 

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Uh...newsflash, Mr. Smith, Obama won big in 2008, 365 to 173. Plus the Dems spanked 'em on the Hill. Big, big repudiation of the Republicans.

Pundit said: Republican, moderate thyself!

Republican said: Pundit, go f--- thyself! 'Twas the corrupt party establishment's fault. Let's have a Tea Party!

What will happen if Obama spanks Romney?

Pundit will say: Republican, moderate thyself!

Republican will say: Pundit, go f--- thyself! 'Twas Romney's fault. Let's have another Tea Party!

And let's be honest, the Republicans got it right in 2010. They pandered to the right and still won big. And if Obama dominates in 2012, they will be right to blame Romney.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of a conservative wingnut. Yes, I know it hurts, but try. They believe that their star is ascending, that America is slowly embracing their ideology. And they have good reason for thinking it. On economic issues, America has been moving to the right. Why would they give up now?

100 years ago, it was the other way around. Determined progressives believed that their star was ascending. The Democrats nominated William Jennings Bryan for president three times! He lost every time. But they kept pushing until they got Wilson. And then they still kept pushing until they got FDR. Why should we think that conservatives will give up more easily?

Ever since Ronald Reagan, pollyanna Democrats have been presuming the country would eventually come to its senses. Well that was 30 years ago. Since then, the Republican Party has eviscerated its liberals and its moderates, yet it's far more popular than it ever was when it still had liberals and moderates in it.

We need to give up the illusion that the Republican Party is on the verge of suicide by extremism. That prediction has been wrong too many times to be taken seriously.

by Michael Wolraich 8/14/2012 - 7:42 pm

You may be right ... and your answer is a bitter concept to accept.   But, if you're right, why are we still fighting?  Why not give in to the inevitable GOP ideological victory now and save ourselves from all those years of anguish and dashed hopes?  

Is it possible to stop the Conservative star from further ascending? Can we ever force it into decline? What will it take? How will we do it? What do we have to do to get them to knuckle under to OUR ideological beliefs?  Don't tell me we can't or that we never will, humor me and give me a plausible scenario in which we succeed.  You know you have one in the back of your mind somewhere.  It's what keeps you going, it's what keeps all of us going.

 

 

by MrSmith1 8/14/2012 - 10:27 pm (re: Genghis)

They were fighting during the FDR years too - just keep fighting.

Once in a while stop, whisper "bi-partisanship", and then get back to fighting.

It's the lay of the land. Fight till you drop. Grandkids fight till you drop.

Any idea what politics were like in the time of Saladin? Moderates got blown away by extremist crazies. Seriously. As it was, so it shall be.

by PeraclesPlease 8/15/2012 - 1:15 am (re: MrSmith1)

There is so much that can be done to change things and it would be so easy but the damn democrats in congress just won't do it. I'm not talking about hard politically dangerous ideas like privatizing health care with a government run single payer model. Here is one simple change that could have profound consequences.

Eliminate the filibuster in the senate.Oh yes republicans will rage but the public would see it as fair. Most people would feel that, of course if you get 51 votes the legislation should pass. Sure that means democrats don't get to filibuster republican legislation. But I think we'll gain much more than we lose. Getting democrats together is like herding cats. We're just too individualistic and diverse. Republicans submit more to party authority and now, with the moderate republicans being purged, march more in lock step.They're just more effective in using the filibuster to block democrat policies and appointments than dems are in blocking republicans.

Democrats do have a lot of good policy ideas that would benefit the public. It wouldn't have to be far left progressive legislation, just good effective center left governing. If the public saw us getting things done that seemed to improve things we'd get more support and the public would slowly turn left.

Remember the gang of 14 back in 2005? Democrats were filibustering some conservative court appointees. Senate republicans were talking about using the "nuclear option" of changing the senate filibuster rules. I was praying they would. End or lessen the filibuster that gets used against us far more often than we use it against them and the republicans get any negative backlash for ending it. Would have been a big win for democrats in the long term  even though Bush would have gotten his court nominees passed. Which by the way most were approved anyway after the gang of 14 stopped the filibuster.

I think it became obvious the filibuster needs to go in Obama's first two years when a majority democratic congress needed 60 votes to pass damn near anything. And do the republicans get blamed for their obstructionism by the public? Hell no, mostly they blame the whole do nothing congress. Do you think if republicans get control of the senate the dems will stick together enough to filibuster anything but the most egregious legislation?

by ocean-kat 8/15/2012 - 3:51 am (re: MrSmith1)

Smith, I don't have any easy answer to these questions, but they are absolutely the right questions to ask. Once we give up the illusion that middle America is in the grip of a temporary hysteria or that the silent sensible majority will ride to the rescue whenever it wakes up, we will be forced to confront the fact that not enough Americans trust the government.

Without that trust, legislating new programs or even sustaining existing ones is exceedingly difficult, and the only way for a liberal to win an election is to abandon liberal principles and pray that the Republicans nominate more Christine O'Donnells. Look at Claire McCaskill. She's virtually a Republican already, and she cynically promoted nutcase Todd Akin in the Republican primary because he's the only one she can beat (maybe). This is our answer to the rise of the right?

It can't be. It won't work. Progressives have to stop coasting on the legacy of their 20th century dominance and start doing what the first progressives did 100 years ago--convince people that government can and will be effective, not only in sustaining our current way of life but in improving it.

by Michael Wolraich 8/15/2012 - 12:07 pm (re: MrSmith1)

Do you think part of the problem is the conflating of the actions of Government with the actions of Congress?  Seems kind of weird that the Republicans can convince people that Government doesn't work simply by themselves being recalcitrant legislators ... then, as long as they can throw monkey wrenches into the system, they can continue to prove the validity of their theory that Government doesn't work.  Wow, that really sucks for us. LOL

by MrSmith1 8/15/2012 - 4:46 pm (re: Genghis)

There are many strands to the argument, some more rational than others. A few examples:

- Government is bloated - the classic conservative argument

- Government is corrupt - another classic (appeals to liberal too)

- Government is inept - this is the one you might think to be most important, but you don't often hear it from conservatives

- Government is discriminatory - anti-white, anti-Christian

- Government is tyrannical - lightbulbs, death panels, gun control, etc.

The last two are the bread-and-butter of the modern conservative movement. Before the 1970s, these ideas were more commonly held by liberals: Southern state governments were discriminatory, the CIA and FBI were tyrannical. But in the past few decades, the right has co-opted them. If you watch Fox news, you don't get many stories about government bloat, corruption, and incompetence. You get stories about zealous bureaucrats who ban Christmas celebrations and tell people what laundry detergent they can use.

by Michael Wolraich 8/15/2012 - 5:52 pm (re: MrSmith1)

Well I would love to imagine this but so far no one can talk me down and explain how we are truly going to overcome all of the voter ID laws, open and secret purges targeting democratic voters, more time for republicans to early vote than democrats in OH, and whatever else they are doing that I don't know about or aren't telling us.

This is really happening.  The ID law in PA affects 9% of the electorate there?  That's enough to hand PA to Romney if it can't be overcome.

I know laws are being challenged but the election is getting closer and it's not clear to me that we can overcome these cheats.

I won't stop bringing it up now because I'd rather talk about it now than after the election.

Love the idea of it though.

I wonder if Obama would win in a landslide if the entire country was aware that the republicans plan to steal votes to win the election.  Maybe enough people would get pissed off enough to get off their duffs and register and vote that we could overcome the dirty tricks.

by synchronicity 8/14/2012 - 7:45 pm

I have said for a long time that I think the Dems should be doing Registration Squads this Summer that are tailored to each state, and that ensure potential voters can get their photo IDs and whatever else is deemed necessary to make one eligible to vote.  Then let all of them show up to vote.

by MrSmith1 8/14/2012 - 8:44 pm (re: synchronicity)

Registration Squads?

Sounds like a  Hitler  youth movement, checking mandatory voter cards, to see what party affiliation you support.

Papers please.

by Resistance 8/14/2012 - 9:14 pm (re: MrSmith1)

Oh jeez.  Yeah, that's what I meant.  Pfft.

The difference, of course, being that registration squads want you to have papers and will help you to get them.

 

 

 

by MrSmith1 8/14/2012 - 10:03 pm (re: Resistance)

Deleted duplicate comment.

Mona

by synchronicity 8/14/2012 - 7:45 pm
I would settle for an outbreak of majoritarian fervor amongst the hypothetically victorious Senate Dems, such as to engender an opening day interment of the filibuster. (Harry Reid regrets January 2011 and his former complaisance). We can blame only ourselves...
by jollyroger 8/14/2012 - 8:19 pm

The conservatives seem to have bought into a couple of clever concepts that help them survive in any environment.

The first is that there's a tyranny of the majority at work on issues where they are clearly in the minority.  This is there response to the country loosening up and embracing humanity on social and civil rights issues.  When they can't claim majority support for banning same sex marriage, they will claim that they are now an oppressed minority being forced to accept what they find reprehensible.  Wrong?  Yes.  Convincing to the adherent?  Yes.  Of course, Genghis has chronicled how the right used the language of victimization to motivate its base.

The second concept they have is that of the silent majority.  When they're ascendant it's just proof to them that everybody really shares their values, they just don't talk about them because, you know, jackbooted liberal thugs.  When they're not ascendant it's because the real will of the majority is being thwarted by, you know, jackbooted liberal thugs.

by Michael Maiello 8/15/2012 - 12:44 pm

 

But damn, either way We never get to actually wear the jackboots.

by MrSmith1 8/15/2012 - 4:30 pm (re: destor23)

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