Is Our Proud Boys Learning?

    That Trump is a coward. Trump is a liar, who told you nothing but lies. Trump is a user who used you. Trump doesn't give a damn about you, when he tells you "he loves you", that too is a lie. He has no respect for you, nor any concern for your fate.

    In his mind you failed, you are losers, he has no pity or remorse about what he told you or conned you into doing. When you "remember that day", remember that.

    Left you and the members of your dumb, violent cult, a bunch of naive, angry, exploitable suckers to pay the price for the fun and "exultation" Trump had on January 6 as he sent, and then watched on TV, as you sacked the capitol building, killed a cop, injured over 150 more, also causing 4 others to die.

    Case files in the investigation have offered signs that many of the rioters believed, as impeachment managers have said, that they were answering Mr. Trump’s call on Jan. 6. The inquiry has also offered evidence that some pro-Trump extremist groups, concerned about fraud in the election, may have conspired together to plan the insurrection.

    “If this was a conspiracy, Trump was the leader,” said Jonathan Zucker, the lawyer for Dominic Pezzola, a member of the far-right Proud Boys group who has been charged with obstructing police officers guarding the Capitol. “He was the one calling the shots. ... One man — charged with assaulting the police — accused the former president of being his accomplice: In recent court papers, he described Mr. Trump as “a de facto unindicted co-conspirator” in his case. ” NYT

    Will they ever learn enough to not  be used by the next unethical, unscrupulous, amoral, dishonorable, dishonest, deceitful, corrupt Republican politician who wants to exploit their fears, bigotry and hate to aid him seizing power?

    "Is our Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc,  learning?" wording from link.


    Is they learning?

    Or will they backing Cruz and Hawley next? Maybe they'll just go back under their rocks.

    we have only more questions right now, according to what I posted yesterday on my most recent Learning about Extremism thread

    Proud Boys splintering after Capitol riot, revelations about leader. Will more radical factions emerge? via @usatoday

    — JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) February 12, 2021

    as to those under indictment so far who have good lawyers, from other stories I have read and posted, I would say in general: yes, those ones seem to be learnin', and learnin' fast under instruction from counsel...sedition is serious biz and you don't want to be guilty of it. Because surprise, sedition, it's "high crimes" not misdemeanors. All fun and games street fighting men until you're in court under serious charges.

    Big picture consideration, though, is that the FBI can take care of them who join such groups, that these are our real problem:

    think loners like Tim McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski....


    HOLY MOLY, speaking of those two devils, THIS IS TRUE!

    Garland oversaw the prosecution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and gained significant management experience inside the sprawling department in the 1990s. He also was a career prosecutor inside the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington, D.C., where, among other things,..

    — Doug Whitmore #FixTheWorld #ThisIsTheWay (@MoreWhit) February 11, 2021

    Not just McVeigh but also Kaczynskii!!!I just checked it out on Wikipedia

    ....In 1993, Garland joined the new Clinton administration as deputy assistant attorney general in the Criminal Division of the United States Department of Justice.[6] The following year, Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick – a key mentor of Garland's[26]—asked Garland to be her principal deputy associate attorney general.[6][27]

    In that role, Garland's responsibilities included the supervision of high-profile domestic-terrorism cases, including the Oklahoma City bombingTed Kaczynski (also known as the "Unabomber"), and the Atlanta Olympics bombings.[6][28]

    Garland insisted on being sent to Oklahoma City in the attack's aftermath to examine the crime scene and oversee the investigation in preparation for the prosecution.[29] He represented the government at the preliminary hearings of the two main defendants, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.[29] Garland offered to lead the trial team, but could not because he was needed at the Justice Department headquarters. Instead, he helped pick the team and supervised it from Washington, where he was involved in major decisions, including the choice to seek the death penalty for McVeigh and Nichols.[29] Garland won praise for his work on the case from the Republican Governor of OklahomaFrank Keating.[6]....

    Biden's nominee for Attorney General has like all the expertise in this you could imagine, girls and boys!

    (No they didn't find the July 5 pipe bomber yet as regards the RNC/DNC offices, I just checked. Did see lots of speculation on Twitter that it's a female from the figure's gait as viewed in the surveillance video but by no one with known expertise.)

    The Republican Party is the danger, there will always be extremists and nutjobs. 

    The Republican Party base is full of them.

    GOP politicians will tell any lie, support and spread any conspiracy theory, exploit any bigotry, game any democracy norm or law, take advantage of any ignorance to get their base out to vote, as they can't win without them.

    I am truly puzzled, NCD, why someone as smart as you thinks chanting that on a liberal website for years accomplishes anything at all. Unless you are advising "kill them all"? Another civil war? Or what?

     It just adds to more partisan stereotyping, no nuance, advancing divisiveness further, only two sides, where one side = good, the other side = evil, more blue v. red, which turns off moderates and swings when they see it immediately, too. So they don't listen to anything you have to offer. At the same time, every day, the people who refuse to register with either party grows precisely because they hear the same rhetoric as yours from both sides and they just think that all political people talk like you.

    Trump won the primary basically by doing the same thing, he attacked establishment Republicanism and then picked off enough votes in swing states of people who have had enough of the shouting about hating the other side. When the truth is: there aren't two sides, there were three: liberals, moderates and conservatives, and now there's a fourth: Trump populists.

    Seriously, no one with any brains would believe anyone labeling Proud Boys or Oath Keepers as "Republicans." They are just not. Probably a lot of them never voted until Trump.

    Miz Qanon Marjorie Taylor Greene isn't exaclty receiving a warm welcome from the party she decided to run with.

    Yes, there ARE plenty of stupid idiotic nut cases in this country, but it's a democracy with one person, one vote and talking like they should be poll tested isn't going to get you anywhere you want to go except rule by elites. Frankly, such talk is not democratic at all. I still cringe every time I see you rant it.

    Republicans elected Marjorie Taylor Greene

    Republicans did not take any action to oppose her

    Greene received a standing ovation.

    Republicans are censuring Republicans who voted to impeach or criticize Donald Trump

    The core of democracy is to face the truth

    Some polls indicate people are leaving the GOP because it has become a cult.


    Edit to add:

    Louisiana Republican Party Censures Sen. Bill Cassidy For Voting To Convict Trump

    1) 11 Republicans voted to strip her committee positions
    2) Republicans will act to increase Republican power; only Democrats do things like make Al Franken resign without super incredible pressure
    3) "The core of democracy is to face the truth" - huh? The core of democracy is to vote for what you want vs others voting what they want.
    4) Polls come and go - the Republicans gained in the House 3 months ago.

    But Democrats have failed, so far, to flip a single GOP-held seat other than Georgia's 7th Congressional District, located in the Atlanta suurbs, and two North Carolina seats that they were virtually guaranteed to flip because of court-ordered redistricting, according to DDHQ projections. 

    Democrats will not pick up competitive US House seats in Texas' 2nd, 3rd, 10th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, or 24th congressional districts, DDHQ projected.

    Numerous freshman Democrats lost reelection 

    Republicans posted a remarkably strong showing, however, contrary to what many district-level polls and election forecasts indicated

    The next meaningful election's in Nov 2022, with primaries more than a year away - we'll see how many Republican voters are still disaffected at that time. They've been voting for anti-abortion, were upset how Covid was handled, but the big issues for Republicans in Nov 2020 were:
    - Economy & unemployment (53%)
    - Covid (29%)
    - immigration (28%)
    - Tie: taxes & corruption in government (25%)
    - Crime and safety (23%)
    - National security/terrorism (21%)
    We'll see how many Republicans stay away from the fold as Trump does or doesn't fade away.

    The first week after Jan 6 Republicans were all scrambling to cover their ass. The 2nd & 3rd weeks, they were regrouping to be business as usual/blame the Democrats. In 21 months, don't expect any miracles.

    ETA: Hispanic population is growing 1.9% per year, so from 62 million in November to 64 million in Nov 2022. Every 30 seconds a Latino turns 18. So 32 million eligible Latino voters in 2020, 34 million Nov 2022.

    If Democrats don't do a good job with outreach, they're screwed. Also, state population growth is uneven. For example, a lot of movement anecdotally from California to Texas right now. Hispanic growth is more significant in states like Arizona, Florida, Texas, than it is in in states like Maryland, even though there's surprising growth in 20-25 states such as Pacific Northwest vs 6-8 states  in years gone past.


    How many Republicans are in the House?

    I don't see being able to talk sense to the bulk of the Republican Party

    Who the fuck are you talking to now? You are trying to tell me something?

    I have made three long news threads on the splits in the GOP and one long news thread on Republicans leaving the party in droves.

    And you give me one link that says what I have been posting here for weeks and weeks?

     So now you have switched to my argument, that these people are not all the same and there are not two sides? 

    YOU need to know this: many are leaving the GOP are NOT joining the Democratic party because they don't want to be allied with "two sides" separatist people who basically talk "kill them all" jive like you do. They really don't want to have anything to do with your type either, they see you as just like Trump, wanting to pump culture wars and "two sides" divisiveness all the time.

    Many are okay with people like Joe Biden or Mitt Romney, though.

    You need to get this: you are a minority, not a majority but arguing every day like you have the righteous sword of the lord hanging over the majority's head. You don't. And it's a democracy. If you want to win more bees, you have to use honey, not vinegar.


    Democrats elected Tulsi Gabbard and have not taken any action to oppose her.

    Democrats make excuses for stupid shit Ilhan Omar says all the time (I dunno why, maybe because she is a P.O.C.)

    Democrats let Marianne Williamson run for president as a member of their party and even let her babble outrageous new age shit during their presidential debates.

    Some Democrats who support Bernie Sanders still viciously attack Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as DINOS as they have since before the primaries. (You can ID many of the most active on Twitter, as they proudly use a red rose symbol after their user name.)

    Many leftie protesters chanted "fuck Joe Biden" all summer (to his benefit, mho!) And our new vice president has long been the target of the "defund" crowd because she was a tough prosecutor...


    Republicans exploit the fears and delusions of the gun nuts, the white supremacists, bigots etc with "Second Amendment  solutions" and "libs will take your AK-47's."

    The Trump cult killing cops and waving Trump flags, following Trump ordes are sure as hell Republicans.

    They are the ones GOP rep's are afraid of. The GOP is now cult of authoritarianism. Trump is King of the GOP.  The core GOP Base, and state GOP people, are foaming at the mouth rabid about any Republican who crosses Trump.

    The GOP does not have the courage or the principles to stand up against him and the right wing gun toting nutjobs who by wide margins still adore and worship every word of Trump.

    Trump support is not about policy

    Trump support is about making Liberal heads explode


    and I see liberal heads exploding, to negative effect on themselves. meanwhile moderates see the explosion and join groups with names like "walk away" from both of them

    Republican heads are rolling for those who voted to convict der Führer !

    One group, the GOP, does not believe in democracy 

    Watching seditionists remain in Congress should reasonably cause anger

    Why seek unity with a group of white supremacists?

    They will eventually stab you in the back

    The only way change will happen is if the Republicans decide to reform themselves 

    Walk away if you must

    The battle will continue 

    I'm sorry I just don't see all registered Republicans as white supremacists.

    Your end "solution" of yelling and screaming on the internet about "the other side" (as if there was only one) being evil sounds to me very anti-democratic as well. If it were to have any agency in reality it would be one of two things:

    1. have two countries

    2. kill them all.

    It simply makes no sense in reality. It'd be one thing if you were doing it on a conservative forum, at least you'd have some skin in the game. Yelling "REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL" all the time on an internet venue where there are only liberals is ridiculous absurd cheerleading/preaching to choir.

    The reality is that the majority in this country are independents and not buying into your game. And people who talk like you do and like right wing republicans do make yourselves smaller minorities every day!

    FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME: you have to win swing and independent voters to win elections. It's simply not the Manichean civil war game you think it is and keyboard warriors make it out to be, all you're doing is falling for culture wars bullshit, feeding trolls.

    I'm not yelling, you are the one posting in all caps.

    I'm definitely not talking about killing anyone, that was the Trumpsters at the Capitol

    Republicans in multiple states are attempting to suppress votes

    Republicans in multiple states are censuring Republicans who do not support Trump

    If you vote for a Republican, you are voting in agreement with the violence and the voter suppression 

    There is no way around that conclusion 

    Mitch McConnell admits that Trump was guilty and that he (McConnell) is too much of a coward to vote to convict him.

    If Democrats lose seats, it will mean that gerrymandering worked, and enough voters are OK with Republican power grabs.

    You are watching the Republicans attempt an overthrow of democracy and intentionally ignoring it.

    Republicans participated in an attack on the Capitol threatening members of Congress

    How can you expect Democrats to work with Republicans as if nothing happened?

    all Republicans attacked the Capitol? Methinks your head is exploding again.

    As I said to NCD at the start of this: Oath Keepers and Proud Boys are not "Republicans" to anyone with a brain. No one who chants "hang Mike Pence" is considered a Republican to anyone rational. They not "Republicans" to the FBI or DOJ either. They are known as radical extremists. ACTUALLY they are getting a new label lately as well, one that may prove to be inaccurate or a poor choice of words: domestic terrorists.

    You sound absurd saying what you are saying, don't you realize that? Why would anyone with an independent mind want to be in the same political party as you?



    Trump incited the mob

    Republicans let him off

    From Brittney Cooper on Twitter 

    12:59 PM 2/13/21
    As I have watched this impeachment, I just keep thinking of those sham lynching trials of old where white juries would almost never convict white men who were clearly guilty. Those jurists are political ancestors of the modern GOP. It’s shameful not to mention enraging

    You are in willful denial. Republicans knew that he was guilty and failed to convict.

    Republicans aided in the assault

    Republicans want to avoid metal detectors set up by the Capitol Police

    Lindsay Graham is on television rambling about impeaching Kamala Harris

    Democrats in Congress tell us that do not trust Republicans 

    You say, "Nothing to see here"

    There is zero reason to continue the conversation.

    I think that rule works for everyone, no? wink 

    don't have a Proud Boys example, but Oathkeepers member Jessica Watkins and her lawyer are real quick learners about certain issues popular with The Woke:

    The then-Oath Keepers leader is transgender, and has argued for home confinement partially on the grounds that she allegedly incurred abuse in jail.

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) February 26, 2021

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