The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
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    RACISTS DON'T REALLY HATE BLACK PEOPLE - THEY FEAR WHAT WE REPRESENT

    By Wattree on Sun, 08/23/2015 - 6:35pm |

    Beneath the Spin * Eric L. Wattree

    RACISTS DON'T REALLY HATE BLACK PEOPLE - THEY FEAR WHAT WE REPRESENT
    .
    A Discussion On Race Between Interracial Peers  


    DURING SLAVERY THE ONLY BLACK PEOPLE WE KNEW WHO SPOKE
    "PROPER" ENGLISH WERE HOUSE SLAVES, AND MANY OF THEM 
    LOOKED DOWN ON FIELD SLAVES. AS A RESULT, MANY OF US 
    EQUATE INTELLECT WITH "TRYING TO BE WHITE," SO WE HAVE AN 
    AVERSION TO, OR REJECT, OUR OWN NATURAL INTELLIGENCE.     

     Let's keep it real and stop trying to emulate our oppressors. The BLM movement needs to tone down their militant rhetoric because they don't have the resources to back it up. Black people are only 13.2% of the population, so if they turn off the rest of the public and find themselves without allies, they can't win one battle alone.  In addition, the modern Black man doesn't have a heart for laying his life on the line. That's why we've been abused for the past 250 years. 
    .
    But there's a reason why we're no longer warriors.  It's because the adversity that we've endured over the centuries have made us MORE rather than less, and we've evolved into the people of the future. The murder and mayhem of battle is an animalistic, brain STEM activity that lower animals used prior to developing a cerebral cortex, or higher intellectual brain function. They all had the instincts of a snake. They didn't have the ability to think, so their first response to any problem was to attack.
    .
    But again, due to the adversity that Black people have endured over the centuries, we've evolved and adapted to overcome that adversity. As a result of having to deal with both overt and covert racists every day of our lives, we've developed an intellectual muscularity that has made it possible for us to out-think our enemies. 
    .
    What we refer to as "Soul" is Black creativity straining to burst forth and be utilized. The very same creativity that goes into the making of a Ray Charles, an Areatha Frankiln, or John Coltrane, can easily be redirected toward math, science, politics, and engineering. That's why racists hate Barack Obama so passionately, because he's using the knowledge that he's gained from the Black experience to make them look like idiots. You see, he's utilizing a source of knowledge that they can't obtain at Harvard, Princeton, or Yale, and Black people as a whole have got to learn to draw on that unique source of creativity as well. We've got to get away from the brain stem mentality and limitations of our oppressors, because racists are the people of the past, while we're the people of the future. Our history lies before us.
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    BLM  IS MAKING THEMSELVES LOOK LIKE 

    THE BLACK COUNTERPART TO THIS GUY.  DOES HE LOOK 

    LIKE SOMEONE YOU'D WANT TO TAKE SERIOUSLY?

    .

    Racists tend to be the mediocrity of White society, so they try to use the fact that they were born White to define themselves and to compensate for their lack of personal value. Their entire sense of self-esteem is based more upon group association than individual value and accomplishment, and their entire claim to personal significance is, "Well, at least I'm better than them." 
    .
    That's what's driving radical conservatives so crazy about President Obama - he's walking, breathing, evidence that they cannot claim superiority by virtue of the color T-shirt they were born in, and that simple fact alone is causing them to suffer a severe attack of cognitive dissonance before the eyes of the entire world. That's also why they're so determined not to allow President Obama to be successful, even if it means destroying the country - and international corporatists are using the social division inherent in those sentiments to lower the standard of living of the American middle class. 
    .
    Thus, this entire nation, and the future of our children, is being threatened by the desperate attempt of a handful of insecure bigots to maintain their delusions of superiority, and as far as they’re concerned, if the country has to be sacrificed for that cause, so be it.
    .

    FELLOW AMERICANS, DON’T LET OUR IGNORANCE DESTROY US

    .
    The racist animosities that are running rampant among ALL segments of the American people are playing right into the hands of the those who are our most insidious enemy – the global corporatists. These people are intent upon enslaving us all. The only difference between literal slavery and what they have in mind for us is we'll have to provide our own housing.
    .
    These people are no longer Americans; they are now globalists, and America is just a virtual cotton field to them. And as long as they keep the poor and middle class fighting and hating one another, we’ll be powerless against their social and political manipulation. So "illegal aliens" and others are far from the biggest threat to the American way of life – the global corporatists are. 
    .
    If Al Qaeda represents a rattlesnake in America's garden, the corporate/GOP alliance represents a python under our bed. Al Qaeda can only destroy buildings, but the corporate/GOP alliance wants to destroy our entire way of life and replace American democracy with a system of corporate feudalism, where corporations, literally, control the nation. So it is essential that every man, woman, and child who is a part of the poor and middle class begin to recognize that fact, put our petty hatreds aside, and come together to fight our most insidious enemy - the global corporatist.
    .

    SUZETTE SOMMER

    AMEN. Damn, Eric, you covered so much TRUTH!

    I grew up in a tiny racist town with Sunset Laws... I grew up with people who hated non-whites and gays and anybody "different."

    I escaped at 18 - ended up in LA, and finally began to know the real world - a multi-racial multi-cultural world.
    .
    I am almost 65 so I have watched our society go through a lot.
    We are making progress though not nearly enough. The younger people give me hope!
    .
    But more and more what I notice is the brilliance of our Black citizens... and I have been thinking the same thing: the reason some whites hate blacks so much is they do not want to compete with them because they know they will lose.
    .
    Not only in sports and feats of coordination and strength, not only in musical or performing talent, but also in feats of mental brilliance - look around and see how many are outstanding despite every obstacle society puts up - given even a tiny opening, so many black Americans reach and achieve. Just read that black women are the most educated segment of our society now.... and we now see leaders - black leaders and achievers everywhere.
    EVERYWHERE.  Science, medicine, business, space, media, ballet, arts, engineering, on and on and on. It is no longer "rare." All from 13% of the population and despite how many in poverty? And I agree, the strength comes from deep in the heart and soul.
    .
    Wattree:
    ​.
    Thank you so much for this, Suzette.

    .
    With you're permission I would love to use your comment to compliment this piece. You present a powerful and inspirational message that I think many young people need to hear. They need to understand that "God" made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to think. Thus, the essence of our being is what we THINK not what we look like. So our true brothers and sisters are those who THINK like we do, not merely LOOK like we do. In short, you're much more my sister than Clarence Thomas is my brother. Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, and Sarah Palin are of a different breed than we are, and it goes much deeper than just racial attitudes. You, me, and Donna, who commented above, are the same kind of people. The color of our skin is superficial.
    .

    Absolutely fine with me. I mean every damn word.
    .
    I adore President Obama and only wish he COULD have a third term. I also consider Michelle our first truly modern First Lady - and I remember Mamie Eisenhower.
    .
    I have almost always lived on the Left Coast... it has only been these last several years of being on FB - making friends all over the place, that I have made friends in the South and TX and slowly begun to get insights into how horrible life in those areas really is for anybody who is not well-off and white.
    .
    The debacle in Ferguson MO was a huge eye opener. The shake down of a whole town by white people.
    .
    Due to social media, I have learned to see what privatized prisons are all about, what our "war on drugs" is really all about, how we will never have "equality" in this country until every damn neighborhood has equally GOOD schools, how there truly is a war on black people, non-white people and homeless and poor people of any color by our police... And how many people are beaten down by all of that.
    .
    Yet how many black Americans are rising up to great success and raising beautiful families despite it all. Things are changing. And the haters are being left behind. They are being exposed, outed, shown. They are raising hell right now.
    .
    But we are at a tipping point. Injustice is being seen. Really seen. And yes... BLM has pissed off some white people. But some of us listen to the rage in it and understand.  Because some of us have been feeling the same way about the police violence in particular: How can this go on!
    .
    I am still in shock about so many events - and they do just keep coming... and it has to stop. We will stop it. Just as in Nazi Germany... "First, they came for the Jews." Corruption touches and endangers us all.  I really do think a lot of white Americans get that.

    David Snyder

    One of the earliest white people to get it [regarding Black intelligence] was Mark Twain, regardless of his use of the word "nigger." He realized that once in a while, if he or she trusted you enough, he could get wisdom and insight from black people that didn't exist in whites. A former slave once said to him "You tell me where a man gits his corn pone [cornbread] from, I'll tell you what his '[o]pinions is." After thinking about it, he realized it was one of the most insightful things anybody ever said to him about the human condition. 

    .
    Over the years, I've gotten myself into trouble and it's been non whites that have always had the best advice and explanations for me of what made my adversaries tick.

    *

    Wattree:
    .
    When I was a child my grandfather, Samuel Wattree, Sr., gave me some of the most insightful advice that any person could ever get, and it was especially designed to address adversarial situations just like the Black community is facing today. 
    .
    My grandfather was run out of Louisiana after a rich White family, essentially, tried to enslave my grandmother. She was working for the family as a domestic and the people's kids bonded with her, so the family wanted her to live there on the premises. They weren't brutal, or threatening, or anything - at first. In fact they were all syrupy grins, and spewing words of love, and "family" - at first. But the bottom line was, they wouldn't allow my grandmother to come home, and theyinsisted that my grandfather come live in a shack there on the premises.
    .
    So my grandfather pretended to cave in, and packed up all their belongings (including his gun). Thereafter, he pulled up on the property brandishing his weapon, told my grandmother to get the baby and get into the truck, and they drove off and kept going until they reach Los Angeles.  That was in 1931. They moved into a house a block or so away from the Dunbar Hotel. At that time my mother, their first child, was one year old, so I was born in Los Angeles. 
    .
    But by the time I was a little boy, my grandparents were doing pretty well and they could afford to go back to Louisiana once a year to visit (my grandfather was a master mechanic). I was attached to my grandparents at the hip because while my mother was in college they essentially raised me (My mother and I were more like sister and brother). So every year when my grandparents started packing to leave for Louisiana, it was all the way on. I raised hell from the moment I caught wind of the fact that they were leaving, until an hour after they walked out the door and the car was out of sight.  We went through the same ritual every year.
    .
    On one of such occasion, however, when I was about nine years old, my grandfather decided to use the occasion as a teaching moment and drop a little wisdom on me. He said, "You're right, you're not a baby anymore, but there's another reason we can't take you to Louisiana with us now - you talk too much and you could get us killed. You've got to learn to listen to what's on everybody else's mind, and never let anyone know what's on yours, because if you tell the next man everything that's on your mind, he'll then know everything you know, plus what he already knew, and that'll make him smarter than you are. So that's why you have to stay home - because we can't afford to let those White folks down South know more about us, than we know about them."
    .
    And that's the primary problem that I have with BLM.  They talk too much, and too recklessly. They don't seem to think things through, and they tend to shoot from the hip. They also seem to have far too many people among them who are so anxious to gain their ten minutes of fame that they're falling all over each other to jump in front of the cameras. 
    .
    They're missing the point. The point is to gain America's support, and thereby, enough political allies to give us the clout to obtain our objective, not to shake our fist at the American people. That's a losing battle. So all they're doing is flapping their lips and giving the White establishment the ammunition to demonize the entire Black community by portraying us as a raging and reckless beast, a threat to America, and potential terrorists. 
    .
    Some may say that's ridiculous, but the more thoughtful among us recognize that the White establishment are experts at demonization - ask any American Muslim, or ask the parents of Trayvon Martin, who's son the White establishment converted from a child who simply went to the store to get some candy, into a violent gangster with a ravaging case of the munchies. By the time they were done they had demonized Trayvon so thoroughly that they convinced the jury that George Zimmerman had performed a public service to America by stalking, and then killing, a perfectly innocent child. They claimed that Zimmerman simply acted in self-defense, but how could he be acting in self-defense when HE was the stalker?  Trayvon was being stalked on a rainy night by a strange man who had a hundred lbs. on him. What about Trayvon's right to stand his ground?
    .
    George Zimmerman should be in prison today, but the simple facts above are the kind of things that get lost in the shuffle when everybody is screaming and hollering and nobody's thinking. So BLM needs to learn a lesson from that, a lesson that informs them of when and how to speak, about considering what they're going to say before they say it, and when to keep their mouths shut and listen. And just as important, they need to learn to NEVER attack an ally. If the USSR and the United States hadn't learned that lesson during WWII we would be goose stepping today. 
    .
    So as I've said many times before, while I agree with the overall objective of protecting Black lives - in fact, protecting ALL lives - the BLM is going at it like a raging beast without a brain, and by letting emotion trump serious and logical thought, they're going to end up causing even MORE Black lives to be lost.
     
    *
    WHY I LOVE BEING BLACK

    http://wattree.blogspot.com/2013/01/why-i-love-being-black.html
     

    Eric L. Wattree 
    http://wattree.blogspot.com/ 
    [email protected] 
    Citizens Against Reckless Middle-Class Abuse (CARMA) 
    .
    Religious bigotry: It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does.

    Comments

    BLM rejects respectability politics. They are atheists, not the traditional faith-based protestors we tend to expect in the black community. They do not believe that you have to dress in proper attire to expect to have your full rights as a citizen. Professor Gates was respectable and still got pulled off his porch and arrested. What is being demanded from blacks is subservience. It was protests that led to changes in state laws. 

    BLM is not racist. When Zachary Hammond, a white teen, was shot by police under suspicious circumstances, BLM was the first to raise the alarm. Why was the #AllLivesMatter crowd silent?

    BLM just put out a list of demands on Friday. Read it over and tell me where you disagree. BLM is considered dangerous enough that the NYPD is monitoring them in true COINTELPRO fashion.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 10:01am

    RM,

    I hope I don't seem to be implying that I believe that BLM should limit their activities to praying, moaning, chanting, and singing "We Shall Overcome," because I'm not. We have many more resources than we had in the sixties, so that presents us with many more potential strategies. And what I'm saying has nothing to do with suits, churches, or "respectability" (whatever that's supposed to mean). I have one criticism of BLM - their approach so far has been counterproductive in terms of gaining wider support for the cause, and it lacks simple common sense.
    .
    Their approach to dealing with Bernie Sanders, for example. Next to Barack Obama himself, an argument can be made that Bernie Sanders has become the most popular politician in America, and it SHOULD be BLM's primary objective to gain allies for their cause, yet, they potentially alienated hundreds of thousands of potential allies - and for what, a photo op.  That was stupid. 

    So that's my problem with them; it's not their cause, it's the clumsy, inarticulate, and thoughtless way they're pursuing their objective that I have a problem with - and those things can't be talked or justified away. Stupid is stupid - period.  

    They talk too much, and too recklessly. They don't seem to think things through, and they tend to shoot from the hip. They also seem to have far too many people who are so anxious to gain their ten minutes of fame that they're falling all over each other to jump in front of the cameras.

    They're missing the point. The point is to gain America's support, and thereby, enough political allies to give us the clout to obtain our objective, not to shake our fist at the American people. That's a losing battle.  All they're doing is flapping their lips and and giving the White establishment the ammunition to demonize the entire Black community by portraying us as a raging and reckless beast, a threat to America, and potential terrorists. 

    Some may say that's ridiculous, but the more thoughtful among us recognize that the White establishment are experts at demonization - ask any American Muslim, or ask the parents of Trayvon Martin, who the White establishment converted from a child who simply went to the store to get some candy, to a violent gangster with a ravaging case of the munchies, and whose extermination was a public service to America.  .

    Thus, the BLM needs to learn when and how to speak, consider what they say, and when to keep their mouths shut and listen. And above all else, they need to learn to NEVER attack an ally. If Russia and the United States hadn't learned that lesson during WWII we would be goose stepping today. So as I've said many times before, while I agree with the overall objective of protecting Black lives - in fact, protecting ALL lives - the BLM is going at it like a raging beast without a brain.


    by Wattree on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 5:04pm

    Eric

    Did you read their demands? They seem reasonable. The media will always demonize minority groups, that goes with the territory Martin Luther King Jr was demonized. There was an appearance on "Meet the Press" where white reporters openly attacked him. BLM has shifted the dialog.

    The tactic of diverting to black crime rather than state sanctioned homicide of black people is also an old tactic. Here is what Ida B wells was told

    When Ida B. Wells, the world’s leading anti-lynching activist and black social worker of the early twentieth century, tried to explain to a wealthy suffragist in Chicago that anti-black violence in the nation must end, Mary Plummer replied: blacks need to “drive the criminals out” of the community. “Have you forgotten that 10 percent of all the crimes that were committed in Chicago last year were by colored men [less than 3 percent of the population]?”

    http://www.thenation.com/article/darren-wilson-americas-model-policeman/

    I think BLM is listening, thus the release of the list of demands. MLK Jr attacked white Progressives due to their lack of attention to racism. The response to BLM is no different than the hostility faced by previous activists.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 12:32pm

    While Spivak on "Meet the Press" comes across as a bit of a jerk, he asks the questions that the right or racists or southerners would ask, and it gives MLK room to shine - otherwise it would be a weak interview that didn't address the issues in the way the opposition would frame them.

    (I haven't seen a lot of old episodes, but I imagine Spivak coming from New York & Harvard was like that with everyone - apparently JFK didn't much like coming on his show)


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 7:09pm

    PP,  he was like that most of the time.  I always liked Face the Nation better back then because they had better moderators. 


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 11:55pm

    Bernie Sanders made a stop in SC. He made an outreach to black voters by drawing attention to judicial injustice. Sanders met with the Charleston chapter of BLM. Sanders is paying attention to black voters and BLM. BLM is having an impact

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-black-voters_55d9c44a...


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 3:21pm

    RM,

    My problem is not with BLM as a group; my issue is with stupidity. As long as they act responsibly, and don't further divide the working class, they'll have my tacit support (I have no intention of jumping on anyone's bandwagon, or creating any latted-day superstars).  But if they do anything dumb, or engage in fractious behavior, I'm coming out against 'em; I don't care what their intent.  Intent is meaningless. whether they have "Black" in their name or not is meaningless to me. All I'm interested in is the result of their actions. 

    I'm sick of idiots professing to represent the Black community. That was my issue with Tavis Smiley and Cornel West.  We don't need one voice speaking for millions; we need millions speaking with one voice.


    by Wattree on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 4:55pm

    Your issue may be with the working class and not BLM. Trumps support comes from the working class. The working class re-elected a Governor who drove the Kansas economy into the ground.  Scott Walker is destroying Wisconsin. Bobby Jindal is destroying Louisiana. The working class elects their enemies. 

    BLM could implode. I merely point out that there negative perception is no different than perceptions of black activists of the past. King is a hero in hindsight. He was hated when he was protesting. The Civil Rights era was marked by church involvement with many willing to suffer to reach a goal. The saving message of the Gospels played a role in maintaining hope. 

    Today's youth is more secular. They believe in what they can see. They see a deadlocked jury in the Texas death of an ex-college football player and a retrial ordered for New Orleans cops who were involved in the deaths on Danziger Bridge. They see a bleak picture with politicians only reluctantly addressing police abuse. They are being monitored by police forces in a manner similar to COINTELPRO. They are not the problem.

    The problem they face is organizational. Churches have structure and a chain of command. Churches offer hope. The BLM is a secular movement developing an organization in a more piecemeal style. They are more reality based than hope based, if you get my meaning. They represent the future.

    It is possible that they will fail like the leaderless Occupy Wall Street failed. They may fail because they attack Progressives, but then again so did King and Malcolm. On the other hand, this may be the start of something glorious.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 5:18pm

    I'm trying to fully understand the dynamics myself. One "anthem" I hear is Kendrick Lamar's "Alright". I freely admit the song does nothing for me. I went to my "Hip-Hop interpreter" for help. He tells me Lamar's voice is like an instrument and portions of the song are dedicated to TuPac. The song is from a concept album. I am not supposed to be able to understand the song in isolation. I will attempt to listen to the entire album.

    I get the mood and music of Prince's "Baltimore". I get Janell Monae's protest song. I'm still working on Kendrick Lamar. I think I get where BLM is coming from. It is a different space than mine, but it is understandable and rational.

    _Signed an old guy trying not to yell at the kids to "Get off my lawn!"

    Seriously, I do think a shakeup was needed in addressing black concerns. Black concerns are everyone's concerns, but if black people remain silent, others won't know what blacks don't like.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 5:35pm

    RM,

    You seem to be dealing in perception, imagery, and the like. I'm not interested in all of that. All I'm interested in is bringing the poor and middle class together to fight the killing, looting, and enslavement of the working class by the 1%ers. You're fighting a battle;  I'm fighting the war. Racism and the killing of Black people is not the war; it's merely a tactic of the war. It's going to continue until we defeat the enemy, and the only way we're are going to defeat the enemy is by confronting financial power with people power. But BLM is being divisive, and thereby, they're defeating their own purpose, because they're tearing our army apart. They're not looking at the big picture; they're simply trying to go for bad and sell wolf tickets. If they didn't exist, the 1%ers would have to invent them - in fact, they might have. We cannot win a war by having every platoon chasing its own agenda. The enemy knows that, and they're manipulating that fact.


    by Wattree on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:09am

    The working class that you talk about is not in a war, or even a battle. Right now BLM is more on your side than the working class. The working class is busy supporting Donald Trump.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 6:22pm

    Oh, rm, that is so wrong.  There are far more working class citizens who fight every day of their lives to get through this and move on.  There are some who misplace their anger and think someone like Trump understands them.  They're a vocal minority.  I'm not sure what you mean by "the working class", but everyone I know, including me, fits that category.  


    by Ramona on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 9:24pm

    Ramona, the data that I have seen indicates the Democrats lose white working class male voters

    LA Times

    VICE

    Time

    Slate

    Mother Jones

    if you have other data, I'd appreciate it.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 08/24/2015 - 10:20pm

    RM,

    Now I see what the problem is - it's in defining our terms.  The "working class" is shorthand for the collective poor and middle class in this country. Thus, 99% of the BLM, and everybody else in this country who has less than a few million dollars stashed away, falls under the umbrella of  working class. So are these the people you're talking about?
    .

    The working class (also labouring class and proletariat) are the people employed for wages, especially in manual-labour occupations and in skilled-labour, industrial work.[1] Working-class occupations include blue-collar jobs, some white-collar jobs, and most service-work jobs. The working class rely upon their earnings from wage labour, thereby, the category includes most of the working population of industrialized economies, of the urban areas (cities, towns, villages) of non-industrialized economies, and of the rural workforce.

    Since working-class wages can be very low, and because the state of unemployment is defined as a lack of independent means of generating an income and a lack wage-labour employment, the term working class also includes the lumpenproletariat, unemployed people who are extremely poor.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class

    RM, are these the people you're talking about?  These are the people who are supporting Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Occupy, and BLM. The problem is, while the 1%ers, or the Corporate/GOP Alliance, are completely organized as one invading army (with the exception of the always self-serving Donald Trump - that's why the GOP is treating him like a mutineer), the working class is divided up into several disparate factions, with no cohesive plan, and each with their own agenda. 

    So while the GOP/Corporate Alliance have come together as a cohesive army with an organized game plan and a four star general overlooking the entire field of battle, the working class is approaching this CLASS WAR like a handful of platoons, each being led by a corporal, and all completely clueless to the the objectives of the other platoons, or what's going on on the other side of the battlefield. This allows the enemy to manipulate the various working class platoons, and instigate infighting between people who should be allies.  For example, if BLM is completely independent, how do you know that the idea to attack Bernie Sanders, or any other stupid act that they decide to commit, is not being instigated by infiltrators who are being funded by the Koch bros., ALEC, or both?

    The fact is, we can't, so all we can do is remain vigilant and hostile to all acts of stupidity, and not allow ourselves to become enamored with the group just because you see Black faces, the group has the word "Black" in its name, or you hear words coming from the group that coincides with your anger or sentiment.  Those are EXACTLY  the tools used to manipulate us. The GOP base is being manipulated in just that way as we speak: 

    "Obama is un-American.  He's engaged in a socialist plot to insure my family against catastrophic disease.  Who does he think he is!!!?"  


    by Wattree on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 1:37am

    Eric, I'm just looking at how the working class votes. They often vote against their own interests. The Democrats have the unions, but many other working class people vote Republican, if you have data that the bulk of the working class will vote for Sanders, Hillary, or Biden, I'd love to see it.

    Edit to add:

    Many poor people don't vote.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 9:13am

    RM,

    You said many poor people don't vote.  That's exactly why we should focus on education over ranting and raving.  Bernie Sanders was trying to educate, and the hot-heads were shouting, "Give us the mic - we don't want to hear all that crap!!!"  That's why we're losing. We can't continue to address these issues one issue at a time. The people have to standup and take control of the system - and we can, if we come together.


    by Wattree on Wed, 08/26/2015 - 5:02pm

    Unfortunately, Bernie was peaking to an affluent white audience. Bernie is making outreach to other communities. 

    We need specialists in areas like the environment, climate change, justice, etc. We can then come together based on attention to detail in each area. Gay people can educate us on what the pressing need of heir community as one example. If we a a single lumbering organization, we will be like GM in the days where they sold Chevy,Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile. GM made the same basic car stuck a different sticker on it. People realize their were Pontiac engines in Cadillacs. It was a disorganized mess. We do better with independent ideas coming together as one. The GOP has created the close community for us. If the elites come after Gays, all communities respond because Gays come from all communities. When elites come after Latinos, we all respond because Latinos are in all our communities. When a white teen was killed by police, BLM was the first to respond. 

    How can you be missing the beauty of the unity that is already here? The elites are not going to regain the Presidency.


    by rmrd0000 on Wed, 08/26/2015 - 5:34pm

    BLM is all she wrote. Sink or swim. And supporting the reasonable 168 Campaign Zero statutory changes to police employment and duties, conduct, promotion, pay suspension, firing by salaried community review boards, legal rights, prosecution, supervision, equipment allowed, laws they are allowed to enforce in given communities, strict restrictions on use of force, training on racial neutrality with a goal to end state sanctioned murder while ignoring homicides in the community using Newark NJ as a model city is a necessity for any Democrat platform in 2016.

    by NCD on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 12:22am

    NCD,

    I'm not against BLM's "professed" agenda; I'm simply concerned about whether they've been infiltrated by right-wing operatives who are instigating a level of stupidity that's not only sabotaging their professed agenda, but is allowing them to be used to undermine other progressive candidates.  The reason I'm concerned about that is because nobody can be as stupid as they've been by accident .  
    .
    Always be vigilant for hyper-ideologues engaged in reckless and unnecessary stupidity.  
    Cointelpro 101.


    by Wattree on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 2:10am

    The NYPD is using Conitelpro against BLM.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 6:59am

    Since the NYPD is using COINTELPRO against BLM, doesn't that make BLM legit?

    If BLM is COINTELPRO,  did Obama authorize the operation?


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 9:17am

    RM,

    You keep missing the point. When Cointelpro is mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is the exact same government-initiated program that it was during the Civil Rights Movement. I mean Cointelpro-like.  During the sixties Howard Hughes was world famous as being one of the riches men on Earth because he had $2.5 billion. Today's billionaires can leave that kind of chump-change as a tip after lunch. So today Koch Bros., ALEC, and their billionaire friends can finance programs that not only rival Cointelpro, but more - and they are.
    .
    That's why it's so important for the the working class to come together and pool our political resources.  We cannot win this CLASS WAR trying to fight as single-issue factions. Black people are going to be crushed trying fight by themselves, workers are going to be crushed trying to fight by themselves, women are going to be crushed trying to fight by themselves, and immigrants are going to be crushed trying to fight by themselves. Because the Corporate/GOP Alliance are going to use their vast wealth to manipulate us and turn us against one another, as you saw with BLM when Bernie Sanders was trying to tell us what we were up against - "Aw, we don't want to hear all of that; we want to know what you're going to do about Black people!!!"
    .
    You see, they're being so blinded by anger that they don't the big picture.  The Corporate/GOP Alliance will stirrup anger among Black people, and then do the same with other factions - women, gays, workers, immigrants, etc - to keep us focused, and fighting, over whose single-issue is going to be addressed first, while they're hard at work cutting ALL  of our throats. Because the end-game is actually about ending Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment Insurance, The Fair Labor Standards Act, etc.  In short, they're trying to lower the standard of living of the American middle class to a level that coincides with third world countries of the new global economy, where many workers make less a week than many Americans spend on lunch a day. 

    So it is absolutely essential that we stop being so dumb, and single-issue oriented, and come together as a PEOPLE, to protect both our interest, and our freedom.
    .


    by Wattree on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 12:26pm

    I still don't see BLM as COINTELPRO. They are frustrated activists. I don't see them as racist. They were the first to raise the alarm when a white teen was killed by police under suspicious circumstances.

    MLK faced backlash for condemning Vietnam. BLM will face condemnation for objecting to the plight of the Palestinians. I think BLM is more on your side than many of the working class who support Donald Trump. I think you are fighting a battle with the wrong people.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 12:34pm

    NCD

    For the last time, no one is ignoring homicides in black neighborhoods. State sanctioned homicide is not going to be ignored either. Urban crime fell to historic lows and you ignore that. Crime rose when people repeatedly saw abuse in the judicial system. Blacks were ticketed for minor offenses to increase city coffers. Judges when along with the scam. Eric Garner was choked to death for selling loose cigarettes. The judicial system found no crime. 

    When citizens protested, the NYPD Union said that the protests were Un-American. A man is shot in the back in North Charleston and fellow police officers cover up the crime. A man is stopped for a missing license plate and shot in the head. It is likely that both officers will go free. 

    Ida B Wells kept fighting government sanctioned lynching despite being told to concern herself with black-on-black crime. Protests of police homicides will continue to produce protests.

    Address unemployment and poor educational facilities and you will decrease urban crime. Those programs can go forward while attacking police abuse at the same time. Police abuse is part and parcel of the recent spike in crime. Blacks got no credit when crime levels fell. Blacks get blame when crime levels rise. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

    At the end of the day, I support BLM. What do you have that is better?

    I'm sorry that people are upset that Bernie got his feathers ruffled, Sanders is doing outreach to the black community. Hillary actually had a heart to heart with black people. In 2008, there was a knock down, drag out race fight between Hillary and Obama. At the end, of the day people came together. Hillary became Secretary of State. This case of the vapors over BLM is nonsense.

    This new concern about so-called black-on-black crime is nonsense because nobody realized it went down.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 8:25am

    I suppose black on black crime is nonsense for the black mayor of Baltimore?

    I am apparently the only person in America who doesn't trust cops or prison officials to tell the truth, ever, and when an epileptic has a sudden and unexpected death, in a prison, and they say she, 6 feet tall, hung herself on a 5 foot partition with a giant garbage bag I say WTF? She more likely suffered sudden unexpected death in epilepsy which is so common there is a syndrome for it. I blogged on that point.

    I have seen cops lie in my face in court in front of a judge, have seen cops from 2nd floor windows taking cash bribes in broad daylight from contractors working for very big universities in Manhattan, NYC, seen them not do their job, heard story after story from very reliable blacks I have known of harassment.

    I support clamping down on cop use of force, but 100 or more rules and statutes will never fly with these guys, and marching up and down the streets has its limits. And in the end Watree and Hal are right, the economics are key to concentrate on, and as you say, Trump may be hard to beat, so I go with Watree on BLM.


    by NCD on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 12:57pm

    Sigh 

    Did you commend blacks in Baltimore when crime trended down?

    Edit to add:

    Sanders draws big crowds. Some polls show him gaining on Hillary even after the BLM disruptions. How did BLM harm Sanders?

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 2:26pm

    I think the idea that residents of a community should address black on black crime is ridiculous. Just as I don't think I have some responsibility to address white on white crime. It's not the responsibility of the residents of a community to deal with crime in a community. It's the responsibility of the government and the police of the community to deal with crime. The responsibility of residents of a community is to keep the government and it's police force honest and responsive to the needs of the community.


    by ocean-kat on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 2:34pm

    Thanks, ocean-kat. It's not as if the community doesn't complain about and protest crime. I mentioned the 35 mile March from Baltimore to DC above. One problem in Baltimore is that the police and their union openly state that they will not make arrests if they are going to be held responsible if a person dies in their custody of a spinal cord injury caused by high speed trauma. We have entered Tony Soprano territory. All the citizens of Baltimore have to do to get law enforcement is sign a contract with the Mafia (dressed as police)

    We are told to ignore police abuse until the criminals bring crime down to some arbitrary number. Oh, crime was down? Screw you anyway, black community. 

    It's a choice between criminals in uniform and criminals wearing headgear with colors.

    Of course, this problem would not exist, and there would be no tension if BLM did not exist.

    Neither Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton suffered any political setback after encounters with BLM. Bernie is actually doing better in post BLM polling.

    Damn you BLM!


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:03pm

    Bernie leads Hillary in NH

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-new-h...

    Damn you, Black Lives Matter , you are damaging the Sanders campaign.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:20pm

    To start with, it is the responsibility of parents to have some idea of what their kids or young adults are up to, when they live in the same residence.

    And to teach some basic rules on behavior and respect for others.

    That goes for all parents of any color or race.

    And there are organizations (or should be in communities) that can help parents with those tasks. Long before law enforcement gets involved.


    by NCD on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 8:00pm

    What did Tamir Rice's parents fail to teach him? He was shot down within seconds.

    Dylan Roof was fed a hamburger by Charleston police after murdering nine people.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 9:08pm

    Here are the words of Martin Luther King Jr on the causes of urban riots and how they should be understood.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/what-martin-luther-king-thou...

    Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 10:15am

    People take MLK jr out of context

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/28/1380977/-Dear-White-America-Ple...

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 10:16am

    Shorter Kos: STFU & non-violence is old school/so 10 minutes ago

    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 11:57am

    Not surprising, you misunderstood. King abhorred violence, but understood why people rioted. Protests do lead to changes in laws. Protests in Ferguson led to changes in the court system. The courts will no longer be used to nickel and dime black citizens. There is a link to a story on the Ferguson courts in the News Section.

    We still await a decision in the case of Tamir Rice in Cleveland where no violence occurred. We don't know if any charges will be filed.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 12:11pm

    I watched Meet the Press, I know what MLK said.

    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 1:29pm

    So you agree riots don't appear out of thin air and are the voice of the unheard?


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 2:23pm

    I disagree that MLK was excusing use of violence even as he understood it and recognized the frustrations.

    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:00pm

    What part of MLK Jr abhorred violence did you not understand?


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:07pm

    I understand it fine. You obviously misunderstand the Kos article, which absconds with and distorts MLK's ideals, and ultimately justifies violence while telling whitie to stop harping about I Have A Dream. #FAIL

    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:29pm

    You are wrong

    From the article

    On non-violence

    The Civil Rights Movement contained multiple elements with often conflicting interests and strategies for success. Non-violence was not an empty phrase: it existed and found power in relation to those who wanted a more robust, direct, and if necessary, armed response to white supremacy and anti-black hatred. The Civil Rights Movement was able to use the media in the context of the Cold War, and white elites' anxieties about perception management abroad in an era of Jim and Jane Crow, to win its incremental gains.

    On violence

    In these times of troubles it is easy and intellectually lazy for people to mouth-breath some selection selectively misquoted and misappropriated from the I Have a Dream speech, as opposed to meditating on King's analysis of systemic power and inequality as embodied by his observation that "a riot is the language of the unheard".

    King elaborated on the relationship of urban disorder to the struggle for full human rights and dignity for black American in his "The Other America" speech where he stated that:

    I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

    If one persists in channeling Dr. King in these conversations about the urban unrest, "rioting", and exhalations by the ghetto youthocracy (and others) in Baltimore and elsewhere across the United States in response to police thuggery, it should be done with great care.

    --------------------

    There is no distortion. There is notation that the conversation should include the complete assessment of King's words.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:56pm

    BLM has ruffled feathers and instilled anger in some

    Martin Luther King Jr was despised

    http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2015/01/it-is-easy-to-go-see-movie-selma-b...


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 10:19am

    BLM has ruffled feathers and instilled anger in some

    Martin Luther King Jr was despised

    http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2015/01/it-is-easy-to-go-see-movie-selma-b...


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 10:19am

    RM,

    The point is to gain allies, not to antagonize hundreds of thousands of people who basically agree with your position. That's what BLM has done, and by doing so they've made themselves a tool of the opposition. I guarantee you that if Bernie Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee the Republicans are going to use the actions of the BLM in an attempt to divide the progressive coalition. 


    by Wattree on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 11:17am

    Democrats start off with 240 electoral votes. There are no Sanders voters who will abandon him because of BLM. BLM may get young blacks out to vote because the Democrats paid attention to BLM's demands. There is no way that the GOP can use BLM as a battering ram come election time. Any mention the GOP makes of BLM will only make the GOP appear racist, GOP cannot fashion a non-racist message and keep its core voters.

    BLM is not stupid. Hillary and Sanders addressed their issues. Sanders still draws huge crowds and Hillary's core support remains despite BLM.Heck one could argue that Sanders is gaining on Hillary, so BLM had no detrimental effect on him. Hillary has more problems with the email snipe hunt going on than from anything BLM has done.

    Explain to me how the GOP is going to keep Sanders voters away from the polls? I don't see any negative impact of BLM on Sanders now or in the future. I think anger over BLM by Sanders or Clinton supporters, if it exists, will dissipate by election time. There is no way for the GOP to win using BLM. There has not been any negative effect of BLM on Hillary or Bernie.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 11:57am

    Democrats need scapegoats and BLM has already been labeled as another excuse for their failure before it even happens. Some still drag out the ghost of Ralph Nader  who deprived them of their Al Gore utopia and will never be forgiven for his refusal to bow to his betters,

    Bernie's rise seems to be running out of steam, probably because it was so narrow in its scope and target audience and BLM may have highlighted its limits and some of the reactionary cult nature of his followers. Liberals have long and vindictive memories and any past or present perceived slight will bring out the knives.

    Bernie may still push HRC from the race, along with her scandals, but that will only bring in Biden who will harvest the sheeple Sanders has herded back to the Veal Pens. Biden will actually be running to win, with a foreign policy and the broader appeal needed for election.


    by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 2:50pm

    Google crowd sizes and Bernie Sanders to see your error about the steam thing.

    Or you could provide a link to verify your statement.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 3:16pm

    Google is history, our Cult of the Leader popularity contest is about who is drawing media attention and exposure today and who can maintain that exposure. Even at HP Bernie has only one retread story with Trump getting five and Biden two.

    Sanders can still play his sheepdog role for Biden even if his popularity with this class of Democrat voters grows large enough to bump HRC from her throne.I would have rather seen Trump destroy HRC in the debates but Biden will make an interesting foil.


    by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 6:55pm

    So your statement is not supported by any facts. I thought that was the case.


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 9:04pm

    From the standpoint of the 2016 election how many white, black, brown , yellow, pastel and polka dot people from all walks of life come together to elect a Democratic Party President be it Clinton, Sanders, or Biden? 

    Answer: Enough

    How much impact will BLM have on keeping the above rainbow coalition from going to the polls to elect a Democrat?

    Answer: None

    What did we call the money spent by billionaires to elect Mitt Romney?

    Answer: A big waste of money

    In the unlikely event that billionaires created BLM to magically create a wedge between the rainbow coalition noted above, what will we call the result?

    Answer: Another big waste of money


    by rmrd0000 on Tue, 08/25/2015 - 4:27pm