MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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SC Gov Calls For Removal Of Confederate Flag
By Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 4:11pm |THIS IS A BIG DEAL.
It is symbolic.
But I am watching MSNBC RIGHT NOW
And I think this symbol is at last gone.
http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=gov+of+SC+to+remove+Confederate+Flag&qs=n&form=QBNT&pq=gov+of+sc+t
o+remove+confederate+flag&sc=0-11&sp=-1&sk=
THIS IS GOING ON NOW.
Does this 'solve' all things of race?
No.
But this is the State that fired on Ft. Sumter.
This is a big deal to me.
I guess I dream too much.
URL:
http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=gov+of+SC+to+remove+Confederate+Flag&qs=n&form=QBNT&pq=gov+of+sc+to+remove+confederate+flag&sc=0-11&sp=-1&sk=
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Comments
It was a far better speech than I expected. She said all the right things. I loved that the great Rep. Jim Clyburn stood next to her, but did she really need Rience Priebus standing behind her? It didn't do much to strengthen her call for inclusion.
by Ramona on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 5:49pm
But I was watching on MSNBC and this White Repub Legislator....he just backed her up.
THIS IS A BIG DEAL.
And that is why I was shaken when one of my heroes of all time, Jim Clyburn stood next to her.
Prince Reiburse or whatever the hell he calls himself, had nothing to do with my reaction.
The Gov needed some background...I do not care.
I never would have predicted this.
Again this is all symbolic.
BUT, DAMN!
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 5:54pm
From a Christian standpoint, the evil intent of Dylann Storm Roof came up against a higher power. There is no other reason for Haley, Graham, and Scott to fold like this.Preibus is there to set a national standard of what will be expected. The Southern Baptists have called for the Confederate flag to come down. Yes, Richard, this is truly historic. Symbolic, but historic.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 6:08pm
YES!
I hereby render unto my friend Rmrd the Dayly Comment of the Day Award for this here Dagblog Site, given to all of him from all of me.
SYMBOLIC BUT HISTORIC.
Yes!
Damn this makes me feel good.
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 6:23pm
Did they run this by Hannity and O'Reilly and Limbaugh?
Maybe Limbaugh can buy the flag and hang it behind him in his Hate Radio fuhrer bunker?
by NCD on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 6:52pm
I KNOW, I KNOW.
Rmrd is writing about this.
By the way, as you well know, Limbaugh just went on and on about how Liberals and commies take advantage of these ....terrorist murders.
SHIT!
Yeah!
I am astounded by this reaction by this reactionary Governor.
Will welfare be reappraised?
Will employment for those down and out be re-appraised?
Will the poor receive needed medical help?
NO!
But at least a fascist flag will not be flown upon an SC capital.
And i think ths is the last Confederate Flag to be flown over an American State.
THAT MEANS SOMETHING TO ME ANYWAY!
I think this is a bigger deal than even the Media (what the hell does that mean anymore?) understands right now.
the end
And even I am a man of constant sorrow:
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:08pm
The Confederacy wasn't Fascist. Yeah, it was bad, but it wasn't Fascist.
by Aaron Carine on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 7:35pm
You have a point.
I stand corrected!
by Richard Day on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 10:10pm
You are forgetting about Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and the Glenn Beck network.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:06pm
Rmrd...
I never forget about them. hahahahahah
Glen Beck makes tens of millions.
But he has nothing to do with reality. Just the .001% he represents whilst he gathers in the .001% of the profits.
hahahahah
Coulter will make millions selling her falsehoods.
Just hope!
There are 320 million of us.
Let us gather together, as we attempt to do here and give them our voice.
WELL DONE RMRD.
I appreciate you and so do many others!
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:13pm
Thx
I appreciate you too Richard
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:30pm
I am throwing on....
Thank you.
This is important to me!
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:40pm
Haley's message that the flag can't be a symbol of South Carolina's future must be chilling to many. I am sure some politicians will lose their legislative seats over this issue.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:10pm
I will respond once again.
somebody will lose over this statement.
But damn, Haley took a risk.
I do not like Haley.
BUT I LOVE HER FOR THIS.
No kidding.
Haley took a chance.
But as far as I am concerned, Haley bet on the right side.
I am still awed by this reaction from a Governor of SC!
Again, I never saw it commin, as they say
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 7:17pm
They had to take it down. The GOP was crumbling under the weight of their own support for racism. Their coalition was already coming apart before these horrific murders took place.
by trkingmomoe on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 8:33pm
Momoe, maybe you can help me?
I do not get what the argument is under rmrd's blog.
I do not understand it. All these peeps are mad and Mike W shows up attempting to quiet them down?
I am lost and I assume that you or Missy can explain to me what the hell is going on.
I am against the confederate flag. But you already know this.
That is all I got, I cannot figure out the argument here?
by Richard Day on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 1:46am
It has been a while since they went off the deep end. I guess I got off easy because all I got was the middle finger. LOL...It was a weekend drunken barroom brawl that made no sense around the rest of us discussing Lee's "Southern Cross" flag being a symbol of resistance to civil rights. I didn't read much of the food fight just the flag discussion. There was one snark that was really really funny.
Man, there was a lot of pressure thrown at the GOP and their corporate masters this weekend. I think the message came loud and clear that they better dump their dog whistles and catering to the racist.
Even Mississippi is talking about removing the southern cross off their's flag cannon.
by trkingmomoe on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 3:00am
Poor Scott Walker has been admitted to hospital with a severe case of whiplash from being for and against the Confederate flag being on state grounds. It will make for a hilarious political ad.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/scott-walker-confederate-flag_n...
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 8:40pm
He is the Koch Bros. first choice for President.
by trkingmomoe on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 9:42pm
Mississippi might follow suit.
I knew this was a big deal!
Really!
Propaganda.
Hell, it is all propaganda.
But propaganda the right way.
THE HUMAN WAY!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/mississippi-confederate-flag_n_7641512.html
A little good propaganda might go a long long way!
I still think that this is a goood goood day.
Nine good Christians die.
And they might have died for something!
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 10:18pm
by Richard Day on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 10:49pm
The part I love is his position on when the Confederate flag became a racist symbol.
A: The second they finished the last stitch on the first one.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/22/2015 - 11:11pm
You got me laughing now. hahahahah
You are breaking all records with your blog.
Congratulations!
I was going to put this quip on your blog but it was breaking news.
Anyway, thank you.
I just get a kick out of you taking the time to comment on this quip
Of course, I have discussed subjects with you for years.
hahahahah
Anyway, keep on keepin on.
And remember, when they yell at you; they have heard you!!!!
by Richard Day on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 12:08am
Thx again, have a peaceful nite.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 06/23/2015 - 12:21am
I'm going to say something nuanced about the Confederacy even at the risk of making people mad. Defending your native soil merits some sympathy even when it means defending slavery. Southerners deserve both compassion regarding their terrible losses, and respect for their incredible valor. But that doesn't mean the Confederacy was a good thing. The flag can't be disassociated from slavery, as that was the main reason for succession
by Aaron Carine on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 7:12am
The families are free to honor the war dead. We honor the dead from the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East. We honor the brave Union soldiers that died. We honor the U.S. Colored Troops. We can honor the Confederates who died in the same manner. Confederates can honor fighting to keep slavery. The only request is that they do it in the same manner everyone else does under the banner of the flag of the United States of America. We are not asking something outrageous.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 8:16am
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 8:34am
You know you get so goddamned mad. just like me.
Where else might we vent our ire?
A keyboard.
You are more than this.
You really are.
I have read you for years.
Not days or weeks.
You have something to say.
Without going to war. hahahahaha
Hell you are one of my five best bloggers.
Oh hell.
by Richard Day on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 9:07am
aw hell, lost a decent rant thru bad keyboard. Anyway, heres how Bob Marley got whitewashed for the masses, God love 'im. Everyone needs a few warts cland off.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:19am
Life can be so terrible.
But this guy, this Marley guy...
Nice bio by the way.
thank you for the bio.
by Richard Day on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:23am
Let us take a view of history. Germany looked at Nazism and concluded that the Swastika is no longer acceptable. The United States can follow historical precedent and remove Confederate symbols.
http://thedailybanter.com/2015/06/if-germany-can-get-rid-of-the-swastika...
My point of view is American.
You say black like its a bad thing.
Edit to add:
I must once again point out that the American flag was flying when the Civil Rights bills were signed. The Confederate flags came out in response to the Civil Rights movement.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 9:24am
Peracles, in a head to head battle between the Stars and Stripes and the Confederate flag, the Stars and Stripes wins. Consider you and I running from a bear, I don't have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you. In the case of the Union vs the Confederacy, the Union wins. In the case of Civil Rights vs the segregationists, Civil Rights wins. The flag associated with Civil Rights is the one flown by LBJ. The Confederate flag was the emblem of the segregationists. Despite all the racist baggage of the Stars and Stripes, the Confederate flag is worse. The bear gets to the Confederate flag first because it is stuck in racist mud. If the United States smells bad, think of of the stench coming off the Confederacy.
On the issue of race, the Confederacy loses each time. Surely you see this reality.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 9:44am
The funeral of Clementa Pinckney will take place on the grounds of the College of Charleston. The picture is of the President of the college with actors hired to play slaves at a gala in Charleston in 2010. I am offended are you?
Pinckney's body will rest under the Confedrate flag flying at full mast on state Capitol grounds .
That reality is tragic
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/03/27/college-of-charleston-taps-neo-...
Better picture in the link
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:04am
(missing a lttr) Surly u sii th Atlantic passag but choos 2 ignor th flag it wavs. U ignor th txtil mills, th boats back from Boston to Bristol b4 anothr run to Africa. What flag? U know th history of th US taking Florida, taking Mxico in brutal ways, thirty yrs midwst indian wars thn southrn indian wars thn 60 yrs of wstrn Indian wars, trumpd up war for Cuba & Philippins, misusing latino labor in Cntral Amrica to giv us low cost fruit at a horribl human cost - but you choos to ignor that flag. That flag snt 1000s of black mn to di in Viitnam, a million blacks in prison with th US flag flying ovr it - but your obsssd w 1 flag and 1 flag only. thars nuff asshol bhaviour to pass around - dont b so stingy with th guilt. I guss you think yourslf a patriot, but I c it as anothr sillinss lik th flag just covring up human violnc and abus. How th South & Midwst & Wst wr won. Thn on to global xpansion. Yum. Aint it a grand ol flag? HOw will th futur look at it aftr 1000 yrs? lik anothr wild crusads of armd idiots. Salut.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:36am
Translating the gibberish leads me to believe that you are on another rant about what the U.S. flag flew over. That does not cleanse the Confederacy or the Confederate flag. Do you have no problem with Pinckney's body being under the Confederate flag or a Neo-Confederate being the President of the College of Charleston. Both things are disgusting. Your attempt to divert to the U.S. flag does nothing to change the abomination of the Confederate flag or the Confederacy.
We are working to improve the legacy of the United States. The Confederates want to wallow in a slave society. So do I go with people who bring court cases on surveillance and try to repair voting rights or do I go with people who want to celebrate a society based on slave labor, the choice is easy for me, I don't see why it is so hard for you. People in the United States are working for change. The Confederates are locked in the past. The Confederacy can't be part of our future. We can do better than the Confederacy.
We should address past mistakes and taking of life unnecessarily. The Confederacy was one of those errors.
Edit to add:
The topic under discussion is the Confederacy. The Confederacy was an error. Slavery was an error. We are dealing with those topics. There are a multitude of other problems to be addressed. Poverty, unemployment are among those problems there are a host of others. Right now we are focusing on the Confederacy. It is time for our celebration of slave society to end. His is healing. Racism will not go away. The Confederacy will not go away. But we need the Confederate flag off state grounds and state flags. We can start another blog on any issue at any time. We can continue to bring up other issues on this blog. It is a free flow. At the end of the day, we need to acknowledge that we could have done better for Clementa Pinckney than have him lie under a Confederate flag and a funeral at an institution run by a Neo-Confederate.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:01am
No, the topic is the flag. You dont get to pick your favorite diversion every time you feel like it. You thing the confedrat flag is especially bad because you're black and focused on slavry. I think most flags have a lot of blood and injustic behind them. That's it, I'm finished.
Oh wait - by 2050, Mexicans will be 35% of the population, and the majority in many southwest states. That US stars and stripes flying over the courthouse will then be the flag that stole Texas and Arizona and New Mexico and Nevada and Caliornia from their ancestors and then exploited their labor. Okay, technically we made them an offer they couldn't refuse, Godfather-style.
So have fun supporting their right not to be hurt by the flag, paying attention to their feelings, and taking the flag down, and perhaps finally understand some other ramifications of our history, foreign policy, and that damn flag and the uncomfortable but logical places where these principles lead to. I'm fine with it - hope you are too.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 3:53pm
Wow. You seem upset
I'm black and have an opinion about slavery.
Now you want me to worry about the Mexicans?
Wow
After due consideration of the Mexicans, I conclude that the Confederate flag(s) still suck.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:03pm
You're creating a grievance that doesn't seem to exist. My locale leads me to know many Mexican Americans. From both personal experience and reading it appears as though the vast majority of Mexican Americans are happy to embrace the flag of their chosen country. There doesn't seem to be much if any grievance from Mexican Americans over those old wars and Mexico's loss of territory. Unlike the neo-confederates who are still holding onto their grievances over losing their war and clinging to their racist flag as compensation.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:19pm
His response was STRANGE
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:23pm
It's astonishing the contortions some will go through to defend what seems to me to be an obvious racist flag.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:33pm
I shouldn't go after the low hanging fruit, but the gibberish made as much sense as when his keyboard was working better.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:58pm
It's astonishing to me that you can't parse things in more pieces than racist/non-racist.
Do I waste my time on you or just give up?
I explained to you and others that things in life have repercussions. If we help overthrow Libya or Iraq without following the rule of law, then China and Russia come along and do the same, pointing to our flaws.
Yes, the South was and is racist, and the flag is racist as it was the standard flown during th fight to defend slavery and leave the union, as wlll as its used in Reconstruction and to counter Civil Rights, though I tried to explain that people fly the rebel flag out in the country even here in Europe as a sign of being a rebel, an outlaw, of Southern rock, as a sign of the South and tied to drinking Jack Daniels and goodd ol' boys and Dukes of Hazzard- that the rebel flag has other connotations like Willie and Waylon being outlaws.
And our country was built and sustained with racism - towards blacks, towards natives, towards Mexicans, towards Irish and Italians, towards Chinese, towards the people around the world we've exploited over 2 1/2 centuries, bloody excessive unjust wars we fought.
What's that famous book where the guy explained where he got the inspiration for his atrocities from how we treated the Indians? and what flag was the cavalry carrying in every one of those cowboy and Indian movies I've seen? what flag was at Wounded Knee?
Burn all these fucking flags and put up the UN flag or a white flag. You're pulling on a hair in a drain, and you just want that one hair, but you don't seem to undderstand the pipes are clogged with hair and shit and whatever's been dropped down the drain for eternity. But you want that one hair and that's it. Or better, the hairs you like, but not those other hairs you don't want to see. I've never witnessed a plumber so talented, but sure, Good luck.
BTW - Colorado Mexicans seemed to be much more activist - and typically the activist ones carry the message more than the laiddd back & unconcerned. dWhich dis why teabaggers have controlled the message these last 6 or 7 years - the goofy fruitcakes will win if you let them. They've got staying power because they're idiots - sane people give up quicker.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 5:42pm
See below
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 5:45pm
and what flag was the cavalry carrying in every one of those cowboy and Indian movies I've seen? what flag was at Wounded Knee?
I've been to Pine Ridge, Rosebud, and Cheyenne River reservations a couple of dozen times. The American flag was always carried into the ceremonies I've attended. I was more confused by that than the natives. When I asked some of my NA friends I was told the Lakota always honored their warriors. Many Indians fought in America's wars under this flag, WWII, Viet Nam etc. They're proud of their service. We're honoring them.
Again, you're creating a grievance that doesn't or rarely seems to exist. Next you'll be telling me the French in New Orleans want the American flag removed from government buildings. Especially since the Battle of New Orleans was fought a couple of weeks after the war was over.
Edit to add: Look, it wouldn't surprise me if Native Americans wanted to remove the American flag from their reservations. But my experience at dozens of ceremonies on Lakota land is they don't. Perhaps they need their consciousness raised, who knows?
The claim that Mexicans should want the American flag removed is dubious. Two thieving gangs fought over the swag. Most Mexican Americans seem happy with the flag of the gang that won the chunk of booty. Geronimo wasn't radicalized by American atrocities. He chose the name and the warpath after the Mexican army murdered his wife and kids and everyone there in a genocidal attack on an Apache village in Mexican territory. He only changed his war to the Americans after America won that territory from Mexico. As I posted above it's hard to see who has the moral high ground when the war you're referring to is between two thieves fighting over the booty.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 9:22pm
I'm all for dumping Ol' Glory. Where do I sign? You'll never see that rag flying from my porch. I mean isn't it disgusting, for instance, that the US flag flies over Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument every day? I'm with you. That flag represents a shit ton of ugly. But that has fuck all to do with the flag/s of the Confederacy and the events of the past week. Aren't you glad these symbols are toppling? I sure am. And I'm not even "black."
On the other hand, the Irish Tri Colour and the flag of South Africa are pretty cool flags. (Not that I plan to fly those, either).
by kyle flynn on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:33pm
It's hard for me to see how any flag could be considered "art" by any stretch of the imagination. If it wasn't for nationalism I don't think anyone would hang one on their wall. They'd be more likely to hang this
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 5:03pm
Lack of imagination - and the girl's wielding a Mexican flag.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 5:46pm
the girl's wielding a Mexican flag.
Obviously with the intent of attacking us with it for stealing Texas et.al. from her beloved country.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 8:29pm
by Anonymous pp (not verified) on Thu, 06/25/2015 - 12:13am
You are being willfully disingenuous.
You know that the Confederate flag was adopted by many states to represent dissatisfaction with progress in Civil Rights. You know this, you're not an idiot.
You also know that the Confederate flag was adopted after Southern states chose to secede from the Union. The South existed prior to that, sans Confederate flag (of any kind). You know this, you're not an idiot.
You also know that many racists have used the Confederate flag explicitly to intimidate African-Americans. No, not everyone who flies the Confederate flag is doing it for racist reasons, but many people have used the Confederate flag for very racist reasons. Again, you know this, you're not an idiot.
So, given that you know all of these things, your use of an analogy of the US flag and Mexican-Americans can only be explained by you being willfully disingenuous, although you have another term you like to apply to others when they're doing this.
by Verified Atheist on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 4:30pm
How is it disingenuous when it's true and it's the same kind of racism? The South existed with slavery with the US flag. The North got rich on cotton-based textiles with the US flag flying overhead. Okay, then the North fought the Civil War to end slavery - fair enough, if it ended there. But then it went and killed off or imprison half a continent's worth of natives.d
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 5:52pm
I'm at a loss here, PP. Do you want to get rid of all the flags or none of them? Are you disappointed that Walmart, for example, is gonna stop selling products which use Confederate flags? Are you bothered by governments across the South and elsewhere removing and/or considering the removal of symbols of the Confederacy? You're hanging on pretty tightly to something. I just can't figure out what that is.
by kyle flynn on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 6:06pm
Like I said, these flags are bloody symbols.
How far will you follow it down?
PS - while looking for the Mexican girl I game across a lot of KKK meetings flying a US flag. What's the ratio of US to Rebel flags at KKK rallies - 1:2? more or less?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 6:19pm
Name something good that is identified with the Confederate flag(s) that is not directly to slavery or suppressing Civil Rights. Good old boy get together are celebrations of the Confederacy and the Confederacy was about slavery. Name something good you associate with the Confederate flag. Forget all the other flags and focus on the Confederate flag.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 7:40pm
Peracles,
Cut the crap. Everyone has said that removing the flags won't end racism. Everyone has said that there has to be ongoing work on the issues. One person noted that we can chew gum and walk at the same time. We can remove the Confederate flags and we can work for social progress simultaneously.
A brief rundown of issues being addressed
Democrats working on repairing the Voting Rights Act
Working on voting rights for ex-felons in Virginia
Democratic Governors reviewing options if Obamacare is stripped
And that is just a couple of findings from two clicks. No one has taken their eye off the ball. People are working to improve the meaning behind the USA flag. The Confederates are dead. We are just having a funeral 150 years late.
Why did you bring Mexicans into the mix?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 6:12pm
Now you don't like Mexicans?
I thought Lulu's analogy re: Gaza was thought provoking. Was the analogy exactly apropos? Hard to say. I'll stick with "thought provoking".
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 6:21pm
Put a fork in this one. It is dooooooone.
by kyle flynn on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 8:03pm
Peracles please stop.
We have had enough of the diversions. The Confederacy and the flag it spawned were based on slavery. The original flags were symbols of slavery. The Confederate flags came out as protests against those who wanted government action against lynching. The flags came out to protest against Civil Rights. There is no ambiguity.
When we here the diversions, we are appalled. We are told about heritage not hatred, yet they flags came out to stop action against lynching and Civil Rights. We are appalled when we are told that this is the Democrat's flag, yet the GOP ae the big defenders of keeping the flags on state grounds. We are told that we cant criticize the Confederate flag without criticizing the flag of the United States, but we know that we can. When we hear the nonsense, we picture Limbaugh,Kristol, and O'Reilly.
The Confederacy was born in evil and died as an evil entity
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:35pm