The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Richard Day's picture

    COME ON FOLKS; LIVE WIRE ON VP DEBATE FOR CHRISSAKES!

    By Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 7:19pm |

     

     

    Do you really wish a left wing commie symp to run this thing?

    Ha!

    We are looking at some old Norse Myth where the great King of old age must debate the youngster; the youngster attacking some Viagra prone leader with his life force! For chissakes!

    Okay....

    Let us see how this goes!

    I vote for one of my heroes over the last 40 years against a corporate front; against a young prick who simply wishes to make the rich richer, the poor poorer and then wishes that the middle class fall in line and obey their corporate owners!

    Let's go!

    I am rootin for Biden and Truth & Justice & the American Way.

    Joe Biden
    47th Vice President of the United States
     

    LET US PRAY AND ROOT FOR THE RIGHT TEAM!

    I appreciate any and all comments.

    THE END!

    We got about an hour and a half before the gladiators hit the field!

     

     

    Comments

    Okay here we go. 8:01 CDT

    I will say that every time I go back to this site, and my blog, it changes.

    I am sorry.....I have no idea why this is happening to me.

    I am so glad to be with you....

    Raddich is radical or whatever....

    Have we made mistakes?

    Well if we have....

    Uncle Joe goes right for the throat of Mitt....

    I would not go after Ben Laddin and we shall not track you to the gates of hell....

    Dumbshit says

    We mourn the death of ....

    It took the Prez two weeks to tell us that the terrists (w's take) and then....

    Oh I hate terrists

    What an American, what a patriot, what piece of....

     

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:06pm

    Martha Raddatz is tough.  I hope she gets as tough on Ryan as she is on our ol' Joe.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:14pm

    Oh somebody showed up! ha

    Hi Ramona!

    hahahaha


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:23pm

    I didn't get to this, so I'm glad you did.  Did I tell you I love Joe?  I mean, I LOVE him.

    He's aceing this contest.  (My humble opinion)


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:31pm

    I am speaking to myself.

    The little boy says we are weak and we do not give one goddamn about nukes and this Administration is a terrible terrrist link to the end of the world and if we can keep this Administration going the END OF DAYS is soon.

    Uncle Joe says, this is garbage.

    The Iranians are going to bomb the US any day now says the youngster!

    The Ayatolas are after us and we shall no longer have any school lunch programs.

    We have to change 'their minds' and the only way to do that is to threaten war and begin war and send our troops there and send drones there and really piss them off.

    Uncle Joe says that Iran is scared shitless and now cannot sell half of its oil...this is a bunch of stuff!

    WE WILL NOT ALLOW IRAN TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON or viagra for that matter.

    The youngster tells us that Iran is closer to have a nuclear weapon, four years closer than we were before when Bolton and Wolfowitz would have nuked the son of a bitches forever....

     

     

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:21pm

    THERE IS THE AUTO BAILOUT.

    Biden is superb!

    ha!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:24pm

    Ryan is losing, pure and simple.  Joe is being Joe and he's using facts as weapons.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:27pm

    My goodness I think you are right.

    This repub mask is just bologna.

    Now Uncle Joe is going back to the auto industry.

    BRILLIANT!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:29pm

    Ryan is lying again.  So what's new?

    What about the 55 and BELOW???


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:39pm

    Now Joe tells us that Ryan wrote letters that requested moneys for his district. HA!

    By the way, any letter you send me, I shall take under advisement! so says Uncle Joe to the youngster.

    Oh my mama has health problems or my grandmama or somebody and all taxes were paid so that my grandmama could quit throwing up on the carpet.....

    And then this communist took 716 billion bucks away so that my grandmama will continue to vomit on the carpet....

    What happens when you, as a thirty year old begin vomiting on the carpet sixty years from now....

    Okay....

    Uncle Joe says the 716 billion were okay to AARP and the PGA and donut holes and....

    And the youngster wishes to give all the vouchers to the people and then give the savings to the rich and his grandmama will continue to vomit on the carpet and....

    good comeback for Joe.

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:38pm

    Current seniors will NOT get cut.

    Voucher, voucher, voucher.  Get to the under-55s.  What about THEM?


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:41pm

    yes, yes, yes and this response at 8:46 CT, is wonderful.

    So the youngster is simply saying that the rich still cannot handle the bill!

    Oh yeah? How did all this work up to 2008?

    Oh you tax the rich and you tax employers and you tax....

    What a lying prick!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:48pm

    Okay, I am about done.

    But Uncle Joe is just killing this fascist prick. He interrupts him and the boy is abashed.

    And the mediator is wonderful.

    And Uncle Joe will not shut up; GOD BLESS HIS SOUL!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:42pm

    Here's the truth, Richard.  We think Joe is killing Ryan, but Ryan's base think just the opposite.  Now, who's right?  Well, we are, of course.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:48pm

    That does not matter Ramona and I will tell you why!

    The people, supposedly decide.

    But MSNBC and ABC and NBC and CBS and the MSM who are not FOX and the radical right wing radio stations, will not give the youngster much room.

    We shall see if I am right!

    I have never seen Uncle Joe this good the last three years!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:58pm

    Oh and just as an aside, I have been watching Ryan swallow on the screen. He is pissed and dry and upset in my humble opinion.


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:00pm

    OH NOW YOU ARE JACK KENNEDY!

    Oh the repubs will work bipartisanly?

    Uncle Joe is superb!

    This crap about Joe putting his foot in his mouth is crap.

    I dunno we shall see.

    Now the youngster is fighting with the mediator.

    Oh I suppose the Mediator is biased because in 1991 Obama went to her wedding!

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:55pm

    Following on Twitter at #vpdebate.  It's hilarious.  The Repubs actually think Ryan is winning. 

    Best Tweet:  Hello, 9-11?  There's an old man beating up on a child on my TV.  Think it was from Bill Maher.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 9:59pm

    Oh good for Bill!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:01pm

    I think it's a tie. Democrats will think Biden won, Republicans will think Ryan won.

    Dunno about Independents. My guess is they'll lean towards Biden but that's colored by my own position.

    It's been good enough.


    by Flavius on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:04pm

    This morning, that is all I could hope for.

    But I think this is the greatest performance put forth by my hero in the last three years although I love his speeches.

    This youngster knows not of what he speaks.

    If you notice, this lad knows not of what he speaks. hahahahah

    Oh well.


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:12pm

    I don't see a tie.  I see a Biden win.  Winning point:  religion.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:22pm

    Huffpo is calling uncle Joe a pitbull. hahahahahah

     

     

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

     

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:09pm

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/11/paul-ryan-debate_n_1959883.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

     

     

     

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:17pm

     

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/11/paul-ryan-debate_n_1959883.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

     

     

     

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:17pm

    Damn he is good tonight!

    I love Biden!

    And the youngster is lying.

    He never ever asked that abortion should be available to those who were raped, or who were close to death or any other exception.

    Ryan supported Akin and in fact, co sponsored a bill saying exactly this!

    Joe walks softly.


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:21pm

    Thanks for the link to theHuffpost.

    So Biden is also considered to be winning by people other than us,.


    by Flavius on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:26pm

    EGGSACTLY!

    HA!

    Just an aside again, now Joe adds at the end the 30% and the 47% and....

    Well done Uncle Joe!

    This is why I love this guy.

    And did you notice....few ers or ehs or ums or....

    Joe was damn good!

    Now I shall listen to my friends at MSNBC.

    And I shall watch Joe Scarborough attempt to spin the mess!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:31pm

    Joe did very well.  I have to confess I didn't like Joe's laughing on camera, but I liked Ryan's wide-eyed "Who, us?" even less.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:35pm

    First of all, thank you for taking the time to talk with me.

    But the smiling was a tool that Joe used to control himself.

    They are attacking him for it (by them I mean the repub with Rachel) but notice how he responded on each and every issue when it was his time. And he did not hem or haw or hesitate and I am proud of him!

    Another aside, I think Vice President Joe Biden is one of the greatest Americans of the 20th century and the 21st.

    And like you said elsewhere, I love the man and I have always loved this man!

    THANK GOD FOR DELAWARE.

    hahahahahaha


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:42pm

    Oh and Huffpo says:

    BIDEN WINS! HA1

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

    There we go!


    by Richard Day on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 10:50pm

    CNN called it a draw.  Honest to God.


    by Ramona on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 11:46pm

    WHAT?  Fix is in.  This election apparently must be up for grabs because, ratings.

    I usually don't go there but, honestly... even though Obama sucked in the first debate, I think that the claim that he got trounced is a little ridiculous.

    Biden made Ryan look like a child tonight.  So, if this is a draw, the first debate was, well, what it was... a liar and an opponent who wouldn't deign to wade into debating absurdities.


    by Michael Maiello on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 11:58pm

    This was embarrassing for Ryan, I think.  The intellectual heart of the Republican party just got Mola Rahmed.

    Biden wrecked him.


    by Michael Maiello on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 11:19pm

    God love him, the little snot nosed granny starver, I'll bet he pissed on himself.

    by jollyroger on Thu, 10/11/2012 - 11:42pm

    As the great Jim Ross has said, "Good thing he was wearing dark colored pants!"


    by Michael Maiello on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 12:01am

    Well I was little worried about the moderator to begin with because it was clear that Ryan was going to monopolize as much time as he could get away with... but Joe handled the  situation and took care of himself there.

    I was glad Joe was laughing when Ryan through out the lies and bs because my reaction was to get mad and he made me laugh.

    Ryan looked pathetic on foreign policy though he tried to appear knowledgeable with lots of wonky descriptives.

    but for me the lasting impression of this debate will be Ryan calling himself 'honest'....

    There is the twist... the weird reality of today.. the Fox News of it all lol.


    by synchronicity on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 12:07am

    My take on Biden's laughter is that he struck just the right tone.

    It can come off as arrogant, if done wrong.

    But, Biden had already proven himself in command of the facts and his laughter was notably stifled and seemed more directed at the situation than his opponent.  And, I think it worked for him.  You got the feeling that he was laughing only because he was hearing comical ideas, but that he was trying not to laugh out of respect and decorum.

    Mr. Gaffe might be more sophisticated than advertised!


    by Michael Maiello on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 12:10am

    I didn't watch the debate but followed many of the reactions on Twitter.  Many of the liberals seemed very concerned about the laughter or arrogance of Biden.  But appealing to my theory of constructive assholery developed earlier today, remember that Biden's job was not to win personal popularity contests or be liked, but to improve Obama's chances in the election.  If some middle of the road and undecided voters came away thinking, "Biden was a bit of a jerk and was too mean and rude to the kid," that doesn't matter as long as Biden successfully blew some holes in Republican talking points and exposed a number of weak spots in their policy positions.  If he did, he did his job.  Biden can absorb the bad cop opprobrium and Obama reaps the benefit of the dirty work.

    I'm guessing that after they talked about Afghanistan and Iran, for example, a lot of viewers might have concluded:

    1. Biden was too arrogant and condescending toward Ryan on Afghanistan and Iran.

    and

    2. I prefer the Democratic position on Afghanistan and Iran to the Republican position, which seems reckless and bellicose.


    by Dan Kervick on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 1:29am

    Dan, your comment is full of stale air.  You didn't watch the debate but a few liberal Twitter comments told you all you needed to know?  Your attempts to go at liberals at every turn are usually pretty transparent, but this is both transparent and pathetic.

    Lordy.


    by Ramona on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 7:20am

    I'm not sure what you are saying Ramona.  How did I go at liberals here?  All I said is that some of the liberals watching the debate seemed very concerned about Biden's demeanor.  And I said that they shouldn't worry, because Biden's job wasn't to have a likeable demeanor, but to get points across that help his running mate's campaign.

    I noticed that in some of the post-debate polls, undecided voters gave the clear win to Biden, by close to 20%.  But polls of all voters watching the debate gave a slight edge to Ryan.  That's a weird result, since that means that a certain number of Democrats think Ryan "won".  My guess is that those Democrats who think Ryan won were made nervous by Biden's aggressiveness, arrogance, etc.  And all I'm saying here is that they shouldn't be nervous.


    by Dan Kervick on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 7:56am

    You didn't watch the debate, how can you draw a conclusion? Oh right, you just know because of the people you follow on twitter..

    LOL dude.


    by tmccarthy0 on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 7:59am

    I didn't draw a conclusion.  I said I was guessing.  Believe it or not, for centuries people followed debates by reading about them.


    by Dan Kervick on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 11:01am

    What worried me about Joe's smirking and grinning was how it would play the next day and in the days to come.  Well, I was right to be worried.   Lots of talk about whether it was inappropriate, off-putting, just right, or spot on. 

    That shouldn't be a part of the conversation, considering how good Joe was on substance and how poor Ryan was, but those who don't want to talk about Ryan's poor showing are going to latch onto Biden's facial expressions.  And now they have plenty to latch onto.

    But I love Joe and that's just a quibble.  I thought he knocked it out of the park, and the Republicans' reactions prove it.


    by Ramona on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 7:27am

    FWIW  barely  split verdicts so far: CBS poll of uncommitted voters shows Biden strongly ahead 50 to 31 cnn poll shows Ryan slightly ahead 48 to 44 among a sample  somewhat more Republican than the country as a whole.

    Not just good enough, a victory!

     


    by Flavius on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 4:52am

    Did not watch debate but now wish I had after seeing this picture at top of this morning's news.


    by EmmaZahn on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 8:14am

    I watched the live stream on the ferry last night, and Biden really got to Ryan. I felt embarrassed for him when he couldn't answer questions, and his lame joke about Joe Biden and saying the wrong thing was weirdly out of place.

    Biden hammered him hard and exposed him as a guy who didn't really know much, almost like a Sarah Palin. I think his inability to answer that question - how do you pay for it? was a real low point for Paul Ryan.

    Then there was the issue of abortion, good for Martha Raddatz, because that question showed women the difference between Democrats and Republicans for women.

    The stimulus money stuff.. wow.. Paul Ryan, deer in the headlights.

    And Martha Raddatz, I'll tell you what, she was an excellent moderator with a real command of facts. She was impressive and Republicans tried to intimidate her before this debate, and she stood her ground. Jim Lehrer could learn a thing or two from Martha Raddatz.

     


    by tmccarthy0 on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 8:16am

    Totally agree, Teri.  To those who are saying Ryan held his own:  No.  He didn't.  He was a disaster.  Even when pressed, he refused to be specific, and though he didn't use the word "voucher", he admitted that that's what's coming for those under 55.  He insisted that the Dems wanted tax cuts for all when nobody believes that for a minute.  And, of course, he lied through his teeth.

    But Joe's quite explanation about how he could be a Catholic but still be pro-choice was sublime.


    by Ramona on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 8:26am

    Michelle Goldberg does a good job summarizing the abortion discussion during the debate, and what it means if Romney/Ryan get into the White House, including Joe's great response:

    Americans are ambivalent about abortion, but they don’t want to make it illegal. By speaking in religious terms, Biden was able to combine his personal opposition to abortion with a strongly pro-choice stance.


    by Elusive Trope on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 9:04am

    "Quite" should be "quiet".  Sorry about that.


    by Ramona on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 10:57am

    This video of the reaction of the focus group shown on Chris' Hardball last night is interesting.  Of the 8, at least 2 were in Obama camp after the debate, 1 iffy for Obama, and 1 now in Romney's camp, with the remaining 4 still undecided.   That probably is close in my opinion to how it played out in the swing states.  Obama might see a point bump in the polls, but any surge Romney received from the first debate is over. Now everyone will focus on the second debate.

    Overall, the Democratic base will see Joe as winning, the Republican base will see Paul as winning, and among the others it is mostly a draw.  On a substance level, Biden hit home a number of points - Medicare, abortion, Afghanistan - that will respond well with many of those in the undecided camp at this moment.  Moreover, he gave new energy to the Dem base, which is was one of his key goals.


    by Elusive Trope on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 8:52am

    I have seen at least five repubs today all speaking the same sentences at different times. These folks even pause at the exact same phrases.

    Joe was rude and Joe was crazy and Joe was lying and Joe is an embarrassment and...

    Oh who cares.

    I just find it the normal course of things for these 'experts' or 'pundits' or journalists to receive the same frickin memo every goddamn morning and spew out its contents onto the air like a college kid spews out his innerts due to a drinking binge the night before.

     


    by Richard Day on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 11:17am

    Vote Romney/Ryan if you think keeping our kids in RC-East forever, fighting the Taliban, is a great plan, and if you think 'government by voucher' and tax cuts for billionaires, is the road to prosperity and the way to run a country.

    Ryan had that glassy eyed vacant stare I have seen from religious fundamentalists who smile and tell you the revealed truth is the earth is 6000 years old. Jesus rode on dinosaurs? Ryan has equal faith in the usual lethal concoction of GOP snake oil.

    Maybe some deep pocketed lobbyist will buy Ryan another $700 worth of Jayer-Gilles 2004 Echezeaux Grand Cru French wine to dull his recollection of having his ass handed to him.


    by NCD on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 10:45am

    Every single one of us has known for a long time, probably at least thirty years on average, who we were going to vote for in this coming election. That is also true for almost every other voter in the entire country. It is also true for most of the self-identified undecided's.

     Now, on to the analysis you have all been waiting for, mine.

     First, no one here and no one anywhere who has been paying semi-attention to politics learned anything new last night. Most judgment is about presentation and the perceived or predicted affect that the different presentations would have on other people.

     Both sides obviously had a strategy. Ryan's seemed to be to run out a long list of charges which Biden would never have time to refute and also make his own points. Expecting this, Biden had to have a method of showing his disagreement as Ryan droned on and looking down or looking over respectfully obviously wasn't going to work. What was left? He had to just smile or laugh whenever Ryan put out some B.S. so as to indicate that we were hearing b.s. Like we didn't already know that.  Unfortunately, that led to too much smiling and laughing which started to look like smirking. To me anyway. I agree with the call. I think the execution was fairly poor because it was overplayed.

     Early on I thought Ryan was winning big and he seemed to be doing all the talking and taking a lot more time, but I ended up thinking Biden won overall. Biden began shifting into quick short interruptions so that the false statements couldn't pile up unopposed. Not polite but effective and necessary and I didn't feel that he did it to any unacceptable degree.

     Mostly in the final third or so, Biden started speaking very forcefully and with some anger. As a tactic, and because I wanted him to win, I think that was smart, but, when he was in this mode he was looking straight at the moderator and often seemed to be directing his anger at her. He should have been looking at his "dear friend" Ryan when he was morphing into alpha-dog macho man of principle that would stand, by God, for something, I forget exactly what.

     Biden in a close win that will most likely change nothing.


    by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 1:33pm

    2010, 2008 & 2006 elections demonstrated to me anyway that the 'public' (whoever that is) can be rather fickle? at times.

    You are certainly right about me anyway. Hell we had a dem sitting in our Congressional Seat for over 60 years? and the people in my county voted in a goddamnable repub who voted for every single bill the repubs passed in the House for the last two years.

    And I did not vote for the sumbitch and never could vote for a repub because that repub--the most moderate of repubs--will caucus with the repubs, vote repub 96% of the time; that repub in the Senate will filibuster 99% of the time with all the rest of the repubs and end up making the poor poorer, the rich richer and the middle class beholden to corporate monsters.

    That repub will not even attempt to do anything for health care, clean air and clean water, Civil Rights, voting rights, or even real energy independence since FOX and rush and all the other fascists have done nothing but attacked wind and solar and geothermal progress in this country.

    Yeah, I know who I am voting for before the election, but a good portion of the citizens in this nation do not.

    It all boils down to salesmanship.

    And Joe did a good job selling last night!


    by Richard Day on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 2:18pm

    Rolling Stone:

    ...if you're going to offer an across-the-board 20 percent tax cut without explaining how it's getting paid for, hell, why stop there? Why not just offer everyone over 18 a 1965 Mustang? Why not promise every child a Zagnut and an Xbox....

    The Romney/Ryan ticket decided, with incredible cynicism, that that they were going to promise this massive tax break, not explain how to pay for it, and then just hang on until election day, knowing that most of the political press would let it skate....

    The proper way to report such a tactic is to bring to your coverage exactly the feeling that Biden brought to the debate last night: contempt and amazement....if you're not one of those rooting gazillionaires, you should laugh, you should roll your eyes, and it doesn't matter if you're the Vice President or an ABC reporter or a toll operator. You should laugh, because this stuff is a joke, and we shouldn't take it seriously.


    by NCD on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 2:25pm

    Great opinion piece by Taibbi. He showed brilliance in agreeing with me almost straight down the line. smiley Even when he said that he was not that much of a Biden fan, although I just hinted at it. We, Taibbi and I, part slightly on the laughter. I also believe it was a good tactic because, although I didn't say it, it is the correct and natural reaction to what he was listening to. I just thought it was overdone a bit, but that is a completely subjective conclusion, all that it can be by anyone, even by the millions of Republicans who thought it was way overdone and offensive.

     I thought his strongest bit was when he looked at the camera and asked, "Who do you trust on this". For the segment of our population that worries about losing S.S. that was an affective statement even though he really only said that Obama would never privatize any part of it, not that he wouldn't compromise its future.


    by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 3:25pm