The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Richard Day's picture

    PHIL DONAHUE & THE IRAQ WAR

    By Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 4:25am |

    Karl Rove.jpg

    I am in the middle of The West Wing series again on Netflix. For some reason the stream quit after the first three years and out of the blue, the rest of the episodes appeared, magically last week.

    Anyway I have Adult Deficit Multipersonality whatever and I watch golf and read blogs at the same time I 'view' my stream.

    Well, we now have PCTV.

    No not politically correct TV which will always be with us.

    We have for sometime seen the likes of bigger blog sites like Huffpo and Beast and Salon providing video interviews.

    So I run into a 61 minute HUFFPO special interviewing Phil Donahue of all people.

    And what HUFFPO was getting into involves our ten year venture into Halliburton's War.

    And Phil, did a documentary (which is also available at Netflix) in 2007 about this Halliburton War.

    You have to see this interview.

    This interview not only sent me, eventually, to the 2007 documentary but it caused dust devils to reel around in my cranium to an extent I had not predicted.

    To say the least The West Wing segment I had been viewing was aborted.

    This has been a terrible 12 year period for me and I have contemplated ending it all many times—don't worry, I am basically a coward.

    I have problems with my memory at times.

    Well this interview brought back memories that left my emotions reeling.

    First, I had recalled that Donahue was the ratings giant at MSNBC at the turn of the millennium.

    He had broadcasted his syndicated talk show/Murray-like show for 29 years and had picked up ten Emmys.

    Second, I recall that we had no voices, broadcasted voices, against the impending war brought about by sinister forces including Cheney and Wolfowitz and Feith and others in 2002.

    Except Phil Donahue.

    And about half way through this interview Phil notes that the McClatchy group had voiced its objections to the impending war in 2002 and it was the only powerful media group that did object!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClatchy_News_Service

    But I am talking about TV because from 2002 to 2008 all I had was TV.

    Anyway Phil is fired in 2003 for voicing THE TRUTH by MSNBC!

    Maher had been fired of course for saying bad things about 9/11/01.

    The Dixie Chicks were lambasted by everyone and lost millions in royalties and canceled appearances.

    Michael Moore was booed at the Oscars.

    http://www.contactmusic.com/news-article/michael-moore-booed-for-attacking-bush-at-the-oscars-

    Actors like Wood appeared on Leno and disavowed all allegiance to 'liberalism' forever.

    Silvers echoed this sentiment. (Silvers being a recurring character on West Wing for awhile)

    And there were many other celebrities and politicians who took a right turn at this 2002 corner and really never 'righted' their destination.

    Ten or fifteen minutes into the HUFFPO interview, they show a video from 2002. Chris Matthews is interviewing Phil.

    Chris basically calls Phil one of those damn liberals who love to find fault with the United States of America; Phil is one of those liberals like Moore who hate America and Chris only loves America recognizing that his country has some faults.

    See, my memory aint that bad. Chris, who had been a McLoughlin regular decades ago was a liberal who worked for the Democratic Speaker and had been in the Peace Corps (to this day he tells us that he was in the Peace Corp as a kid every single week).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_McLaughlin_Group

    But my greatest memory of Chris involved his paneling with Olbermann (Keith saved my soul I swear to Almighty God because he became the only voice of reason on MSNBC BY 2004). Chris was absolutely dripping in a protoplasm of patriotic exuberance whilst the duo experienced the rover presentation of w bush on that goddamnable aircraft carrier duplicating a scene from Independence Day whereby we were to somehow believe that w had just arrived after bombing the Muslim Devil Sadaam and announced that WE HAVE WON THE WAR.

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2006/04/27/mission-accomplished-a-look-back-at-the-medias/135513

    http://www.kissfmseattle.com/pages/concerts.html?feed=104668&article=10809412

    I KNEW, absolutely knew this was bullshite! I knew it and only Olbermann confirmed my suspicions.

    By 2005? Chris had changed his tune.

    Now Phil announces that Chris had since apologized for statements made against Donahue but I do not recall Chris ever apologizing on the air for anything.

    Anyway, Chris began to have second thoughts of the previous three years of propaganda sent to him by the w Administration. And Chris announced on the air in 2005 that the VP had actually contacted his superiors telling them to have Chris 'tone it down'.

    By then Chris had become a liberal again and he has become more of a liberal every goddamn year following.

    Chris is doing just fine with his gig and he constantly demonstrates where the repubs are lying thieving bastards. Hahahahah

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51258279/ns/msnbc-hardball_with_chris_matthews/t/hardball-chris-matthews-tuesday-march-th/#.UU6nghzryRo

    Anyway back to Phil.

    Phil kind of lost everything.

    He put it on the line.

    With all of his residuals and such, Phil is not crying about his fate.

    Four years after his 'demise' Phil makes this documentary in 2007.

    BODY OF WAR

    http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70084298&trkid=7808591&t=Body+of+War&pt_row=-1&pt_rank=0&pt_location=WATCHNOW&pt_request_id=b33361e6-1879-42f4-b33d-d7af22da5012-511958

    You can find this wonderful documentary on Netflix and other places.

    For those who do not have access to Netflix here is a Wiki entry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_of_War

    Otherwise google Body of War and there are other sites where you might find portions or scenes from this film.

    The HUFFPO exposition brings us many small scenes from the film.

    I am sure that Phil noted the success of Moore and thought: Hell, I might try this. I mean there appears to be a new era!

    In the documentary you will find all those great speeches mostly by repubs but many by dems supporting the most stupid incursion in the history of this country—except for Vietnam of course.

    The lies made AT THE TIME were incredible.

    And some of us older folks knew this from the start.

    Iraq is going to nuke us in the next ten minutes.

    Iraq funded Al Qaida.

    Iraq is planning the annihilation of the United States of America.

    Iraq is responsible for the 9/11/01 assault upon Wall Street.

    Moore had already demonstrated that Osama was a Saudi and that his kin were 'sent' to other parts of the world as soon as the Twin Towers went down.

    Hillary and Kerry and Biden and a number of other dem leaders failed us.

    There is no other way to put this sentiment.

    Obama was right there in 2002: THIS IS BULLSHITE.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99591469

    Of course our President at the time was an Illinois State Senator in 2002 with aspirations to Congress that he would never achieve.

    Kucinich, a personage that SNL has had a lot of fun with said: THIS IS BULLSHITE.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich

    Just the other day I heard a falsehood pronounced on MSNBC that the House of Representatives unanimously supported the Vietnam 'incursion'. I think this false statement appeared on Maddow.

    Well, no. My Congressional Representative in those days was Donald Fraser and he said: BULLSHITE! And he said it on the House Floor and he never backed off his contempt for what LBJ was doing at the time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_M._Fraser

    I am not attempting a 200 page tome on this subject.

    But watch this HUFFPO interview with Phil Donahue—Michael Moore shows up with ten minutes left—and see why my hero was and is Phil Donahue.

    And if you get a chance, check out Phil's documentary from 2007.

    Chris Matthews has righted himself, even if he never apologizes for it. I was lied to is his defense.

    Joe Scarborough has never apologized or righted himself. He simply revisions himself.

    Oh I was against war spending repub admin pricks....

     

    http://www.salon.com/2013/03/19/msnbc_selectively_remembers_the_iraq_war/

    LIAR.

    But when you compare the lies of Mornin Joke with the lies told by the Wolfowitz's and Cheney's and Bushes and Rices and Feiths and Yo's and hundreds of other repubs, well Joe looks a little better.

    Look.

    Tiger looks good at Bay Hill today, Sunday early AM. I mean Tiger is leading and if he wins this tournament he will close in on Snead 82-77. Tiger will be rated number one for the PGA and World Golf commissions. Tiger will be leading in the Fed Ex Cups Ratings, Tiger will Beat one of Snead's records by winning 8 times in the same tournament....

    That is all fine and dandy.

    But if I bet a grand on that happening; well if I lose I lose a grand.

    The pricks who started this Halliburton War only made more money.

    They lost nothing in bets and never had to pay a dime for their felonious lies. In fact their vaults were filled with gold as a result of their sending US soldiers to their deaths along with the 'collateral damages' that ensued. (Most probably hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis)

    AND IT'S A DAMN SHAME.

    The end.

     

     

     

    Other sites?

     

     

     

     

    http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline

     

    http://www.origin.salon.com/topic/iraq_war_anniversary/

     

    http://www.salon.com/2013/03/19/msnbc_selectively_remembers_the_iraq_war/

    Comments

    I remember when they let Phil Donahue go from MSNBC.  I watch his last show.  He had a following of viewers like me who had watched him his whole career.  As far as Tweety goes, I find his style difficult to watch.  He talks too much about him self.  I think he spent so much time on office politics that he became out of touch with the country.  I remember he was all excited about Michelle Bachman and predicted she would be the nominee for 2012's election.  I think he insulted too many women in the run up of the 2008 election and young adults don't watch him because he refers to people and events long before they were born.  Those reference points don't mean anything to them.

    The media failed to do their jobs.  History will hold the Bush administration wrongs accountable.  

    Thanks for the links. 


    by trkingmomoe on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 10:18am

    Yeah Matthews has his failings but he sure the hell is better now than ten years ago!

    Phil is the same old Phil.

    He was a voice in the wilderness.


    by Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 12:33pm

    Nice work DD.  I was a long-time fan of Donohue's, and was surprised when he was let go and really sad.  I remember watching him when Reagan first became president and he was just so refreshing and, at that time, kind of new in showcasing regular people interacting with folks in politics and stuff.  

     


    by Bruce Levine on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 10:39am

    He was (is) always so gracious and I do not recall him yelling much.

    And (I think anyway) he was always prepared; you could tell he had a good staff.

    He stood up and said:

    I am a liberal!

    And he said it proudly.


    by Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 12:31pm

    You're so spot-on DD.  That's just what he did.  He wasn't afraid of it, and it seems to have caused him a nice gig in the end at MSNBC.  Maybe it was the backlash from so many people after that happened that helped to convince MSNBC that if they veered left and stayed there they could be successful?


    by Bruce Levine on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 8:20pm

    Obama had some real dumb statements in his speech that negated its worth.

    "But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles"

    The Economist: In all, Saddam's government may have netted almost $10 billion from its chicanery. [in the oil for food program]

    So let's imagine a speech 1 year after 9/11, when a guy living out in the wilds of Afghanistan with  few hundred thousand dollars knocked out the WTC & Pentagon.

    But a state senator from Illinois with no security can tell Hussein is no threat to his neighbors despite a history of biochemical weapons, attacking Iran & Kuwait unprovoked, threatening Saudi Arabia, and having resisted cooperation with the UN for the previous 3 years. Oh, and he's been sneaking in billions of dollars under guise of a humanitarian program, and even Hans Blix thinks he has WMD's until ~Feb 2003 after 3 months inspection.

    "Let's fight to make sure that the U.N. inspectors can do their work..." And how exactly to do that, except a serious threat to Hussein that has him shitting his pants & lets back in the inspectors? Clinton's cruise missiles & areal bombing didn't manage that.

    "and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession"

    Ah yes, fighting the last war - a foreshadowing of Obama & Lugar teaming up to worry about Russian nuclear materiel threats - so 1991. In between 1997 & 2000, US embassies & the USS Cole had been bombed, in July 2001 the G-8 conference in Genoa is ringed by anti-aircraft guns due to attack concerns, the Pentagon had to pull off-line due to hacker malware attacks, but we're going to wind back to the Cold War.

    And we'll somehow assume or manage to ensure Pakistan doesn't use its weapons? Are we so successful with this kind of thing in 2013?


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 3:33pm

    January, 2001

    WE'RE GOIN INTO IRAQ BOYS, FIND A WAY!

    GWB


    by Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 5:07pm

      Yeah, but Bush's threat to attack did make Saddam let in the inspectors, and the inspections were working. So we had the option of letting the inspections work, like Obama wanted. Did Hans Blix state that Iraq had WMDs? (that's not rhetorical; I really don't know if he did)


    by Aaron Carine on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 8:03pm

    Aaaargghhhh, Obama was speaking October 2002, not March 2003. Obama was just a guy speaking from a street corner, no security clearance, knew little more than myself.

    Blix himself was convinced Hussein had biochemical weapons up to January/February 2003.  (you can find it in interviews, I think BBC had a good one, but not sure).

    But by the time we declared war in March 2003, Blix was all but certain he didn't, just needed a few months to complete a thorough forensics of a large country.

    So my concern in Sept 2002 was verifying both Hussein & Bush. The Democrats were having trouble doing that when the Rovian politics insisted on using real national concerns for partisan and secret purposes - how to counteract when the Republicans controlled the agenda and the votes?


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 1:22am

       Anyway, according to the British memo and anonymous CIA agents, Bush had already decided to attack in the summer of 2002. One of Bush's men said--I don't know if I can find the reference now, but I'll try--that Bush was telling them to look for an Iraqi connection the day after 9/11.


    by Aaron Carine on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 8:08pm

      Found it.

    http://www.president-bush.com/bombiraq.html


    by Aaron Carine on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 8:41pm

    Nice link, good reminder.

    I read Clark's book but I suppose that was five years ago or more!


    by Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 10:13pm

    I myself assumed Bush already wanted to attack and was ginning up an excuse.

    But that doesn't mean Congress could ignore real threats & uncertainties and not put on their big boy/big girl pants.

    To pull a Godwin, if Chamberlain was super antsy to go to war with Hitler, would it still right to ignore re-arming the Rhineland and occupation of Austria & Czechoslovakia?

    What if Hussein had had a hidden biological program and had his own renegade team capable of getting it into Dubai, Kuwait, Athens or Sofia? Using the Al Qaeda insurgency approach, could have twisted the tail of the west pretty well. (look at what a couple weeks of anthrax scare did to us)

    Frankly, what Bush did was treasonous - he took a real national security threat (ok, not sure how much Hussein was a threat to us, vs. a threat to order in the Mideast - not quite the same thing) and lied and abused those facts & problems to get us into a disastrous unnecessary war and worse, disastrously costly & counterproductive occupation


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 1:12am

      These sentiments are reasonable, possibly excepting the Godwin--Saddam wasn't invading anybody; his invading days were done.

      In October,2002 , I didn't know that there weren't WMDs, and I didn't know what non-military option could have dealt with the problem. I still opposed the Congressional resolution, because I would rather have lived with a possible threat to human life rather than with an actual aggressive war which would cost many lives(before the invasion, I expected that there would be a long guerilla war).


    by Aaron Carine on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 6:29am

    [yes, Saddam was a hypothetical & mystery; Hitler's army was much more on the roll, even without satellite imagery to confirm]

    Saddam was brought to the table without war, but it was likely the treat of war that did it. I still don't think a threat without Congressional resolution would have been effective.

    I also think we could have side-stepped the guerilla war - 3 days in Baghdad, put in the new leader, give an explicit description what will happen to him if he stops complying with the UN, and leave.

    But can debate these things forever.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 8:05am

    When Bush, who went on CIPRO on 9/11/2001, two weeks before the first anthrax letter WAS MAILED, suggested in 2002 we all go out an buy duct tape to seal ourselves in a bathroom as protection from Saddam's crop dusters or drones of death, and it was pointed out that a big GOP supporter's company sold most of the duct tape in the US I had my suspicions about what was going down.

    When, in 3/2003, no WMD were used by Saddam in the invasion, and the networks were treating the war like a never ending Superbowl (-----OP IRAQI FREEDOM!!!!---) I stopped watching any TV News considering it all pure propaganda.


    by NCD on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 7:49pm

    When you think about it you really do not need TV any more. Eveything is on line.

    I get basic cable as part of my rent and my son gave me his big old TV a few years ago and I keep it on for background.

    But in ten years; everything will be 'on-line'.

    Everyone will have a big rectangle hanging on the wall and a small one on their laptop and we will simply watch what we want to when we want to.


    by Richard Day on Sun, 03/24/2013 - 10:03pm

    We have a cable that plugs into both the TV and lap top.  Then we use the wifi connection.  We don't have cable now and to be truthful I don't miss it.  I can watch MSNBC the next day off the NBC site. There is a local 24 hour weather channel over the air.

    When I was in high school in the mid 1960's, Cleveland station picked up the Phil Donahue show out of Dayton.  It was on in the afternoon and people could call in and ask the guests questions.  He would have guests that were in the news.  We also had Merv Griffin, who's show was out of Cleveland and his guest were mostly show biz people who came into North Ohio for stock theater productions. Phil wasn't shy about hard hitting questions and was always worth watching.  Merv was more soft ball and entertainment. Phil never really changed with his politics.   He was always a reliable liberal with a lot of chops.   


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 1:28am

    I cannot get Maher on HBO but I can catch his ten minute 'after' discussion with his panel and I can certainly pick up bits and pieces of the main attraction on HUFFPO and other sites.

    And you are right, you can catch Scarborough two hours later; at least you can 'fast through' the bull puckey. hahahahah

    Other shows might make you wait a day.

    I just finished watching the Bay Hill Competition on line thismorning. Of course the presentation is subpar in that they are forbid from showing to many holes where Tiger plays.

    I often sleep through some drama I like and within a day or two I usually can pick it up on the web.

    But Momoe, you are creative!

    Your slogan should be:

    I GET BY


    by Richard Day on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 4:40pm

    There are lots of clips of Maher on you tube if you don't mind waiting for a good laugh.


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 7:58pm

    Here is another opinion by Chris Hedges.

    http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15309-the-day-that-tv-news-died


    by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 6:12pm

    I am so excited about this link you just gave me that I had to reply prior to finishing the link for chrissakes.

    Mediamatters will spend hundreds of hours every damn week citing the sins of the right wing shenanigans? Is that a word?

    Who is paying you to be here?

    How much money do you make speaking at these 'educational promotions'?

    WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR DAMN MONEY ANYWAY?

    This is good.

    Thank you!


    by Richard Day on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 6:40pm

    Well I finished the  link.

    Thank you very much Lulu!

    Thank you.

    That is all I got!


    by Richard Day on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 6:49pm

    thanks this is a very good link. 


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 03/25/2013 - 7:59pm

    I thought you might appreciate today's XKCD:

    If history has taught us anything, we can use that information to destroy it.

    (Title text: "If history has taught us anything, we can use that information to destroy it.")


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 03/27/2013 - 6:41am

    Pragmatism and greed.

    Let us prey!


    by Richard Day on Wed, 03/27/2013 - 9:58am