The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Michael Maiello's picture

    Never Ever Give Up, Ever

    By Michael Maiello on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:39pm | Politics

    The New York Times comically believes that Anthony Weiner should drop out of the New York City mayoral race because... he sexted some willing people online?  Ah, we're told, it's a big deal because he kept sexting willing people online after having resigned from Congress for sexting willing people online.

    Sexting willing people online.

    Looking back, the problem was not his online behavior, which I don't care about at all, but his willingness to resign a Congressional seat over it.  Of course, the seat was a tad meaningless as it was being redistricted out of existence, so there's that.  Still, his willingness to resign implied that his misbehavior was more significant than it was.  It didn't matter and it never did.

    I'm a libertine when it comes to sexual morality.  I believe that anything goes and that anything should go, so long as nobody is an unwilling participant.  When Michael Wolraich is confronted with a slippery slope argument he will generally tell you why the slope is not realistically as steep as you one might imagine (and he's usually right).  Me?  My response to an argument like, "gay marriage will lead to polygamy" is... "so what if it does?"

    A good friend wrote to me this morning that she is embarrassed for Weiner's wife, Huma Abedin, who she once considered something of a role model (my friend is a Fulbright alumni who lived and worked in Oman and, I hope, a future Secretary of State).  I understand her esthetic objection to the ongoing Weinergate.  Especially if you're a Huma admirer, it's a little disconcerting.  You just don't want some one of her caliber to have to put up with something like this.

    But, people are complicated.  As a fan and defender of Woody Allen I am very sympathetic to the argument that "the heart wants what it wants."  Sometimes, it's not the heart calling the shots, either.  Should people exhibit more self control?  I guess. Maybe.  But, why?  Seriously, why?

    There's some argument to be made, I suppose, that Weiner's behavior shows bad impulse control that suggests he would make a poor mayor for New York City.  But that has a corollary, I think, one that is impossible to report.  How many rotten mayoral decisions have been made by people with excellent impulse control?  How many bad choices have been the result of repressed urges?  The heart, or other organs, can't be told "no" all of the time while still being expected to function.

    By refusing to step aside, Weiner is standing up for better politics, where how you get off is less important than your ideas and what you can accomplish.  Really, Bill Clinton gave us the model for how a politician of either party should deal with a sex scandal.  Clinton viewed Kenneth Starr's investigation with disdain.  He rightly viewed the Republican attempt at impeachment as a ploy to steal his election away.  Did he lie under oath?  Yes, he did.  Was it a lie of consequence?  No.  He lied about something that nobody had any business asking him about in the first place.

    It's a long shot, but it would be great if Weiner were to win this election.  Not only would it serve as a much needed rebuke to the party machine that prefers Christine Quinn, but it would rebuke the whole prude impulse that has allowed a paper like the Times to call for a legitimate candidate with popular support to drop out of an election over nothing.

    Topics: 
    Politics

    Comments

    Why would anyone want to put their trust in Weiner?  He's a flat-out liar.

    I don't like Christine Quinn either, but why are those our only options?  How pathetic is that?


    by MrSmith1 on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 2:09pm

    Interesting to read about a Weiner, "standing up," to, "get off ... a long shot." No wonder the slope is slippery.


    by Donal on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 2:59pm

    I don't think Weiner should drop out because the para-sexual activity itself is so terrible. But I do think Weiner broke the very important "don't be a dumbass" rule.

    Breaking the "don't be a dumbass" rule once is human. Breaking the "don't be a dumbass" rule, getting caught, suffering major consequences, and then breaking it again in exactly the same way is a real problem.


    by Doctor Cleveland on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 3:55pm

    Please write a book (or a blog) on "Don't Be a Dumbass Rule". The title alone is worth a couple hundred thousand sales/hits, right? 


    by Orlando on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 11:03pm

    I'd love to, but what's to write.

    Don't be a dumbass. That's the whole rule.


    by Doctor Cleveland on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 10:42am

    Sounds like a fun election,  NYT is slipping in readership.  They need to stir up things for sales.  They just lost 538 to ESPN and that was the bulk of their on line reads.  I suspect they have lost some online subscription renewals because Silver left.  I will get to read Krugmen more times each month now before I hit the pay wall.  I agree with your last paragraph that it would be great and for the same reasons.     


    by trkingmomoe on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 3:57pm

    Wait, what? Isn't ESPN all about sports? How'd they get 538?


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:13pm

    Because Silver started out as a sports stats guy. And since ESPN is owned by ABC, they're going to use NS as a sports guy between election years, and ABC's main polling expert during election seasons.


    by Doctor Cleveland on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:18pm

    crying

    I'm not a big fan of the organized sports, in case it wasn't obvious. Give me Calvinball any day.


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:25pm

    From something I read somewhere, Silver has a variety of interests, and wants to create and run a site much like Grantland.com.


    by Donal on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 7:22pm

    for unlimited free krugtron, go here:http://7.hidemyass.com/ip-1/encoded/Oi8vbW9iaWxlLm55dGltZXMuY29tL2Jsb2dz...

    by jollyroger on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 7:57pm

    or, if using chrome, just open NYTimes in an incognito window.


    by fkaZk0sm0 (not verified) on Sun, 07/28/2013 - 10:01am

    The trouble with Weiner is not that he's a hedonist. It's that he's pathetic. And so was Clinton, for that matter.

    Really, Bill Clinton gave us the model for how a politician of either party should deal with a sex scandal. 

    Model, my ass. If Clinton had said, "Sure, I had sexual relations with that woman" or, "No, I will not answer that question because it's none of your damn business," that would have been a model. The mealymouthed temporizing was pitiful, and he helped dig his own grave by doing it under oath. His mishandling of the Monicagate was one of the greatest failings of his presidency.

    Would I impeach someone for behaving pathetically? No. But forgive me if I choose not to vote for someone because his pathetic behavior makes me cringe.

    PS And this is a guy who's supposedly running on the strength of personality.


    by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:05pm

    If Clinton had come out and told the truth, he would have been begging all the Democratic scolds like Joe Lieberman come out to faint and gasp and piss themselves with shock and horror, and ultimately fuck the party and commit hara-kiri based on fragile ideas of morality. The same unfaithful prick who backed McCain at the GOP convention, killed Medicare expansion for 55-year-olds and played deficit scold instead of supporting Obama on jobs. Maybe Joe needed a few blowjobs himself to get over his self-conceit.

    You go to war with the shitheads you have, not the ones you'd like to have. Clinton did okay. Fuck 'em.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:19pm

    You're right. Better to lie first then admit the truth after nine months and five million semen jokes. Because that way, Joe Lieberman will shake his finger at you in September instead of January.

    Bravo, Bill, bravo!


    by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 4:48pm

    The world can use a few more semen jokes. You also forget issues like Ken Starr and the vindictive power of WaPo & NY Times, plus playing the varying sustaining power in Congress and gauging changes in public fatigue or support. Yes, sometimes a delay of 8 months can be a big help. Anyway, this is about as useless as another Zimmerman/Martin post.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 6:12pm

    I forget nothing. There was not a single thing that anyone could do to him in January 1998 that didn't end up happening over the course of the year anyway--magnified tenfold.

    You can argue that it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme. Fine. But to claim that Clinton played his cards well in that affair is about the dumbest thing I've read here in a long time. His weak-ass attempted cover up was a pathetic fucking disaster.

    No pun intended.


    by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 6:39pm

    Your certainty is admirable.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 7:10pm

    Exactly correct MW, Weiner is pathetic. Bill Clinton was pathetic too. And you are correct, it was one of the greatest failings of his presidency. 

    Anyway, spot on MW, spot on. 


    by tmccarthy0 on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 5:23pm

    If there's this job I really really want and the interviewer tells me:

    You're perfect for this job and I'll hire you. But I just want to wait one year. If you don't send pictures of your penis to anyone for that year the job is your's.

    I could do that. If someone can't it seems to me they have at least some psychological issues.  I don't care how much your sexual quirk is pushing you. If you can't let it go for one year you've got problems. I wouldn't vote for him.

     


    by ocean-kat on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 6:40pm

    Well, that's only because you have superhuman will-power. wink (Also, no offense, but I was under the impression that you didn't even have a penis. If that's so, then it seems like you have an unfair advantage!)


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 7:01pm

    Damn, I'm really tempted right now to send you a pic as proof.  But you know, superhuman self control.


    by ocean-kat on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 7:27pm

    Weird. I've always read you as female, too. Probably, I made an assumption back in the 2008 primaries based on your support of Hillary. My bad.


    by Orlando on Wed, 07/24/2013 - 11:08pm

    Oh, its doesn't really matter does it? Either I make a good argument or a bad argument and both sexes can do that. I often don't even bother to correct it if someone makes the wrong assumption. It could be someone said "she" in reference to me and I didn't bother to say, "I'm a he" and it just spread. But for the record, I'm male.

    http:somewebsite.oceankat'spenispics.com

    What? Like Weiner I just assumed everyone would be interested.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 12:23am

    Dagblog: Where we let it all hang out.


    by Michael Maiello on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 9:07am

    I've been thinking about this and wanted to expand on it a bit. Every job has rules, some spoken others unspoken. I'm the caretaker of a ghost town, I live there. I can have a dog as a pet but not a cat. I think that's a silly rule. The boss has his reasons. I think those reasons irrational. But that's the rule.

    Its hot here in southern Arizona and there's a lake on the property. On Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday I'll go down to the lake, toss my clothes on a bench and skinny dip. We're closed those days. On Thursday through Sunday I'll wear shorts when I swim. Some visitor might be offended if they saw me swimming nude. Its silly I think. People are so uptight about the human body. Why should anyone care if I take a quick dip in the lake naked. But that's one of the unspoken rules.

    The Ruby caretaker is something of a minor "celebrity" in these parts. No one ever told me I can't send pictures of my penis to people I'm chatting with on the internet. But if pictures of my penis became associated with this ghost town I'd be fired. If I was into sex chat I'd make sure there was absolutely no references to my job.

    Weiner had to know the rules required for the job of politician. He may think those rules are stupid. But the rule against sending pictures of your penis isn't exceptionally onerous. After getting caught once he had to know he'd likely get caught again. If he can't do something that simple there's something wrong with him beyond his sexual quirk. Impulse control issues, self control issues,  something.

     


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 2:36pm

    That's all fairly sound, but then there are pretty obvious rules about upholding the constitution and not outing a CIA agent and not firing federal employees over their party affiliation and making sure voting laws are upheld and passing a budget and on and on. And it seems that there are a lot of "impulse control issues" there that I care about more than who Weiner whacks off with or who Sanford disappears with or what bathroom someone does "widespread" in...

    In an ideal universe we'd have some adults in government, and then we might use character as a tie-breaker. That doesn't mean there's no one better than Weiner - if so, fine. It just seemed his politics were fairly good. Watching Michelle Bachman act like a 2-year-old has increased my apathy quite a bit. Of course handing the opposition scandals to beat you up with ain't a great strategy, but even if there weren't one they'd invent a Benghazi or something . I simply don't care much anymore.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 3:03pm

    Your point also matches my opinion. What Wiener did was stupid, and if all other qualities between him and a candidate are equal (or even appear to be equal from my limited information), that stupidity qualifies as a tie-breaker. However, it seems that in reality the comparisons are rarely so close as to, er, whip out the tie-breaker.


    by Verified Atheist on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 4:58pm

    In the general election there's often some meaningful differences. But this is a primary and usually in a dem primary all the candidates look like interchangeable clowns clones to me. What was the policy difference between Obama, Hillary, and Edwards? Not much imo. Weiner has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old boy just going through puberty. I don't mean because he likes sex chat but because it seems to control him rather than him controlling it.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 9:54pm

    I would suggest that if he wants to prove that he is qualified and worthy of being mayor... he should start giving speeches that convince the public of why he is the man for the job...  do that for a while without taking questions and put something else on people's minds... 

    And maybe he should have a standing joke response about getting asked any further questions about this...   like... I am beginning to think that the media has it's own sex obsession problems.   You ought to get that checked.... 

     

    I don't think he should drop out until he has at least made his best case for 'why' he would be a great mayor.


    by synchronicity on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 12:34pm

    So Mike, if NY elects Weiner, doesn't that make NYer's exactly like SCarolinians? Are you all secret hillbillies or something?


    by tmccarthy0 on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 3:13pm

    The hills are in NCarolina. SCarolina is low country. They have lowbillies.

     


    by EmmaZahn on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 4:54pm

    Oh hahahaha,...... that is awesome and I never would have known that! Thanks Emma.


    by tmccarthy0 on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 5:31pm

    I am disappointed in you, Michael, that your normally savvy self somehow, somewhere, along the way, fell for Weiner's performance art.

    As Richard Kim says @ The Nation, reality is more like this:

    Anthony Weiner is a weasel, a liar, a moron and a ridiculous egomaniac. It doesn’t take a picture of his junk to prove that.
    Read a bit more into the actual factuals about his time in Congress and you'll see. He's like the old saw someone here at Dag reminded me of not that long ago: all hat, no cattle. It was sad to see people in the past falling for his act, and it's still sad.

     


    by artappraiser on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 10:23pm

    P.S. I started paying attention to Rep. Weiner's actual factuals when I,  as an unrepentant user of tobacco, found out he was the chief sponsor of the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act (PACT) of 2009,[27][28] which makes the selling of tobacco in violation of any state tax law a federal felony, and effectively ends Internet tobacco smuggling by stopping shipments of cigarettes through the United States Postal Service.

    Turned out that was basically his one major "accomplishment." Everything else was mostly just talk. Mostly the kind where it's for the C-Span cameras in front of an empty chamber, where colleagues and underlings know the phony act but don't tell. Oh, there was also the big effort to get foreign fashion models more O-Visas....


    by artappraiser on Thu, 07/25/2013 - 10:47pm

    And here's Anthony Weiner's record as described by Richard Kim at The Nation: [note, Nation period even better indictment of Weiner]

    He was one of eighty-two Democrats who voted for the Iraq War, and he continued to support its funding long after its flimsy rationale had evaporated. But it's on the subject of Israel/Palestine that Weiner truly distinguishes himself. At least twice in public, he has insisted that the West Bank is not occupied, denying a fact that even right-wing former Israeli Prime Minister and settler movement architect Ariel Sharon admitted a decade ago... As Stephen Zunes points out, Weiner's denial fits squarely in a disturbing pattern of squelching criticism of the Israeli state and of making patently untrue statements to do so, including claiming that the United States recognizes the PLO as a "terrorist organization" twenty years after it ceased using that designation.
    In his twelve years in Congress, the New York Times notes he "sponsored and wrote only one bill that he steered to enactment: a a measure pushed by a family friend who gave his campaigns tens of thousands of dollars in donations."

    Huma Abedin might or might not be the new Hillary Clinton, but Anthony Weiner is definitely no Bill Clinton.

     


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/28/2013 - 6:08am

    Re: It's a long shot....

    Real long


    by artappraiser on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 12:54am

    His numbers have definitely gone soft. Its doubtful he can get it up again.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 1:47am

    numbers plural? There's more than 1 to worry about? AP will have to hire someone full time just to keep up.

    I'm not a TBogg fan, but did get a chuckly out of this one.

    Guess the grand ol' days of banging your secretary are over. (Note: this is not a sexist comment - I've known several male secretaries banging their female boss)

    Nevertheless there's a certain kind of comfort knowing Larry Summers is first in line to head the Fed, seeing as he deep throated millions of underwater mortgage holders in his continued bromance with Wall Street's finance. I mean ah yes, let's get ourselves tied in knots worrying about the fanny on the Xerox machine (yes, I'm dating myself) vs. an economic war criminal. If you're going to fuck up, fuck up big. The world will forgive you, unless you're a southern host of a cooking channel, in which case you knew you had it coming anyway.

    If I only new how to spell Basteele I'd be marching on it already, with or without (legally guaranteed Constitutional rights I hope) weapons.

    BTW, why are Anne Hathaway or Miley Cyrus upskirts okay, but some old politician's wong is off limits? Oh wait, yeah, got it.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 7:15am

    I suspect many New Yorkers wouldn't want to vote for Larry Summers either. (Maybe some even because, like Weiner, his skill sets did not include active listening and consensus-building.)

    As for all the Bill Clinton comparisons on this thread, I just gotta say I know Bill Clinton, and Anthony Weiner is no Bill Clinton, aside from both being publicity hounds. If you wanna talk sexual matters on that comparison, I will just point out that Monica Lewinsky fell in love with Bill Clinton, while most Anthony Weiner sext recipients seem to end up going ewww and ick. Even if one is prone to favor a dictator type for mayor, one might pause at choosing one that makes you frequently go ewww and ick.


    by artappraiser on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 12:42pm

    Everyone falls in love - it's part of the ritual:

    But for Leathers, at least, the relationship was more than fantasy.

    “I cared about him a lot,” she told Moret. “He was very important to me.”

    Asked, “You told Anthony Weiner you loved him?” she answered, “Yes.”

    “Did he tell you he loved you?” Moret asked. “Yes,” she replied.

    But yes, if Weiner wants to be dicktater, maybe he can take Ray Kelly's position. Harvey Keitel already played it out in Bad Lieutenant, way before mobile phones, even if the person he "frisked" was himself. Ewww & ick is right - guess that'll teach the girls not to take daddy's car.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 1:21pm

    London mayor displays cock in Trafalgar Square - maybe hope for Weiner yet?


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/26/2013 - 3:10pm

    Anthony Weiner's campaign manager doesn't agree with Maiello, is giving up:

    http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/186219/anthony-weiner-loses-his-c...


    by artappraiser on Sun, 07/28/2013 - 6:04pm

    Anthony Weiner's campaign manager doesn't agree with Maiello, is pulling out.

    Fixed it for ya. Really if we're not going for the double entendre what's the point of this story? wink


    by ocean-kat on Sun, 07/28/2013 - 6:52pm

    6 Percent of Likely New York Democratic Voters Think Anthony Weiner Has Really Strong Moral Character
    That's the best news for the mayoral candidate in the latest Quinnipiac poll.
    By Matt Berman, National Journal, July 29


    by artappraiser on Mon, 07/29/2013 - 8:08pm

    As he continues with the never ever give up, real classy operation he is running over there:

    http://editors.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/are_we_in_full_wei...

    Edit to add: If you were writing this as a play, would you have the nerve to add this scene with this particular dialogue for his "communications director"? cheeky


    by artappraiser on Tue, 07/30/2013 - 11:44pm

    In all fairness to Morgan, the communications director, she accidentally picked up a transcript of one of Weiner's sex chats and was reading off that. Apparently he likes to talk dirty during sex. devil


    by ocean-kat on Wed, 07/31/2013 - 12:25am