That's all folks

    Since the end of 2010 Obama’s only been able to do those things the Constitution permits the President to by himself.

    Starting Jan 1 of next year       Obama’s only going to be able to do those things etc . etc.

    You can’t lose what you haven’t got. And what Obama hasn’t got today is the same thing(s) he hadn’t got last week :a majority.

    OBTW what the public wants is not cooperation between Obama and the Repugs.It wants 3% unemployment. If asked to chose between 3% unemployment combined with discord in Washington vs. 6% out of work and truly heart warming collaboration in DC.....you know that answer.

    So why did they throw the rascals in yesterday? Read the papers. They’re ‘mad as hell ‘ at having been jobless for so long . And rightly so. They might as well punish that guy from Kenya (where-ever that is) He’s the one who’s been in (charge) while they’ve been out (of work)

     

    .

     

    Comments

    If the US Senate was as dysfunctional as reported, you think Obama will be relieved? 

    Obama sold us out when he didn't stand up to the bankers during the housing crash.

    Reap what you sowed?  


    This is an interesting point, I was just reading about it. I'll buy that many governor's races might have been heavily about jobs, this Atlantic article makes a good case about that in 5 states. And that this would bring out the voters who were concerned about that, who wanted to vote for the guy or gal that would continue the good trend and against the one they thought might kill it.

    Rather than that being about Obama or even Congress, I think most of those voters  with that as a priority would know it's about their state! And whether whoever is running their state is/was/continues doing what needs to be done in their opinion, to improve the situation.

    And I also suspect a lot of these people might not think Dems as strong on that, but think of Dems as anti-business, and what people concerned about this topic want is big business and corporations and the jobs they bring being lured to their state.  (The Atlantic article doesn't do Wisconsin, but I suspect this whole thing might have been part of what happened there with Scott Walker being re-elected. It's a simple way of thinking where being corporate-friendly means being able to lure corporations and: Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! And Dems with their regulations and taxes and support of big gummint mean: less businesses, less jobs.) So voters with these concerns would be coming out to vote for governor and whichever party that governor was, any congressional candidates of the same party would benefit from a coat tail effect.

    But I think none of that would have much to do with Obama. He wouldn't get credit nor would he get much blame.

    In the end, actually, the whole thing might confirm the anti-Washington conservative narrative. Where Congress and Obama really are considered pretty worthless on this front.


     

    It's the economy, stupid

    (Not aimed at anyone at Dagblog)

    In order to keep the campaign on message, Carville hung a sign in Bill Clinton's Little Rock campaign headquarters that read:

    1. Change vs. more of the same
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.[2]

    [2] Kelly, Michael (October 31, 1992). "THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: The Democrats -- Clinton and Bush Compete to Be Champion of Change; Democrat Fights Perceptions of Bush Gain". The New York Times

    "Mr. Clinton made a mantra of those points today, in speeches streamlined to include only one other critical element: Don't believe anything George Bush says."

    1. Uncompromising

    2. Unemployment 

    3. ObamaCare

    4  Ebola Fear 


    I wonder about the most recent timing of the Federal Reserves ending of the fiscal stimulus? Claiming job growth had improved? 

    Really? 


    Put yourself in the position of laid off Lucy  who's been out of work for 18 months.For her , as per Resistance," it's the Economy Stupid." Discussion of women's rights or charter schools, or Snowden is not just irrelevant, it's infuriating " why are they going on and on about that stuff? I want a job".

     Now add the perceived Obamacare snafus, (unfair IMHO, sure there were  problems in the first month or so -what else is new ?-and they were fixed.Richard Branson should have been as lucky) Obama's unfulfilled threats in Syria and Kiev, break in at the White House,and  Craig Spencer taking the subway. And Lucy is thinking " In the name of God, go! These clowns are never gonna get me a job."

    Going home during the summer I was struck with the frequency with which mentioning  Obama , or his  main subordinates,to politically savvy friends evoked a groan.

     The chief requirement for the next Dem candidate is that she should not be Obama. 

    Pity , I like the guy and think  that in the 2050 history books he'll be respected for the combination of  Obamacare  and his response to the sub prime disaster . But not now.He's reached his sell-by date. 


    We will see how far the Democrats get with a tone that disrespects Obama. Black voters saw White voters reelect union-buster Walker, LePage, an indicted Representative from Staten Island, etc.There are all types of excuses being made for the decisions made at the polls, Blacks tire of being called Obamabots or worse. Go ahead and ignore the things that were accomplished despite Republican opposition, then come beg for our votes in 2016. Watch what happens 

    Republicans have been attacking Black voting rights with only the President and Holder DOJ paying attention. If Allison Grimes is reluctant to admit that she voted for Obama, why should Blacks rush out to vote for her. Black voters are used to being under assault by Republicans. Nothing much will change with Republicans in charge of Congress. 

    It was Obama and Holder, not Democrats in Congress protecting voting rights. When Democrats  try to sideline Obama in 2016, they will be sending a message to Black voters. Good luck to Democrats who want the Black vote. Whites voting for a crazed group of Republicans disappointed Black voters in 2016. If neither party takes our point of view seriously in 2016, we can stay home. Congressional Democrats did not focus on Blacks anyway during the GOP assault.


    I think the date 2016 in the third line from the end.is a typo.Should it be 2014?


    Correct, it should 2014. Thanks.


    If you don't kiss our  we'll just stay home, only hurts the minorities.  

    When Clinton was in office; it was the black caucus, under the leadership of Kweisi Mfume, that killed Healthcare reform because the caucus thought they could extract concessions for their votes. 

    The working class including the Blacks, had to wait these many years, until Obama came to power to receive what so many had dreamed about for so long.

    Now again the Black voters would again try to extract concessions, even if it meant it hurt everyone else?

    Give us a break.    

    The majority of Americans are tired of the "woe is me" mentality. "Either we get our way or F- everyone" 

    Congressional Black Caucus - Wikipedia

    Ralph Nader incident -

    In 2004, independent presidential candidate and consumer activist Ralph Nader attended a meeting with the caucus which turned into a shouting exchange. The caucus urged Nader to give up his presidential run, fearing that it could hurt John Kerry, the Democratic Party's nominee. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tex.) called the upcoming election "a life or death matter" for the caucus members' constituents. Nader accused Rep. Melvin Watt (D-N.C.) of twice uttering an "obscene racial epithet" towards Nader; he alleged that Watt said: "You're just another arrogant white man – telling us what we can do – it's all about your ego – another f—king arrogant white man."

    Nader (who is of Lebanese descent) wrote to the caucus afterwards:

    Instead, exclamations at the meeting... end[ed] with the obscene racist epithet repeated twice by Yale Law School alumnus Congressman Melvin Watt of North Carolina. One member of your caucus called to apologize for the crudity of some of the members. I had expected an expression of regret or apology from Congressman Watt in the subsequent days after he had cooled down. After all there was absolutely no vocal or verbal provocation from me or from my associates, including Peter Miguel Camejo, to warrant such an outburst. In all my years of struggling for justice, especially for the deprived and downtrodden, has any legislator—white or black—used such language?

    I do not like double standards, especially since our premise for interactions must be equality of respect that has no room, as I responded to Mr. Watt, for playing the race card. Therefore, just as African-Americans demanded an apology from Agriculture Secretary Earl Butz and Senator Trent Lott—prior to their resignation and demotion respectively—for their racist remarks, I expect that you and others in the caucus will exert your moral persuasion and request an apology from Congressman Watt. Please consider this also my request for such an expression—a copy of which is being forwarded directly to Mr. Watt's office.[13]  Watt never offered an apology.[14]

    The American voters are tired of the racism on all sides.

    The Ferguson incident contributed, to sealing  Obama and the Democrats fate 

    The Supremists got out the vote, while the Blacks cried about being ignored. 


    Your response makes no sense. If the electorate voted it's desires, why aren't Blacks allowed the same right? It is okay for some to deride Democrats because they did not specifically address their issues, but Blacks are criticized if they believe that neither party addresses there issue. That is the double standard.

    In Presidential years, the majority of White voters don't choose Democrats. Minority groups are important. Why are you saying that it is fine for White voters to express their disgust, but say that Black voters are trying to extract concessions.

    How can it be okay for one ethnic group to voice an opinion, but not for others?

    BTW, the CBC did not have the power to have a major impact on passage of Clinton's health care reform. Corporations and Republican opposition had major impact on the proposal's failure.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

     


    From your lnk 

    September 1994, the final compromise Democratic bill was declared dead by Senate Majority LeaderGeorge J. Mitchell

    Anyone who had been following the compromise bill; knew why the Senate Majority Leader declared it dead;  The Black Caucus wanted concessions for their votes.

    I was active in trying to convince others to back the compromise, although I cant find a link to support MY observations,  I know what happened.    

    Imagine the leader having to give the bad news "No way, no how, the bill is dead"

    Most Democrats were on board except for the Black Caucus and without the votes the bill died.

    Inexcusable selfishness.

    Fast forward: Ben Whitehorse Nelson tried this tactic too and was successful, he got something for his vote. 


    So you cannot find a supportive statement and want us to rely on your observations? Were Black Caucus members the only Democrats who wanted changes in the bill?

    Ive Googled for the facts, but everyone knows what facts get the prominent positions. 

    I could keep looking, but why? If you don't want to believe me so what.

    I don't need to get off the original fact, that you were suggesting the black voters should not be taken for granted. 

    That was the same attitude from the Black Caucus, that killed the compromise bill.

    It may also explain why the Republicans took control?


    What explains the Republicans taking over is the fact that a large enough group of White voters voted for crazy Republicans. 

    The reason I don't blindly accept your conclusion about the CBC  is that many Democrats objected to the health care bill. You focus on just one group. Again you have a snippet viewpoint.


    I used to think the best strategy for a more progressive nation would be to extinguish the Republican Party and then cull through the Democrats. Big money and big corporate 'news' and billions spent on brainwashing idiot voters before elections will never allow the GOP to go away.

    The same forces will never allow a 'Progressive' candidate like Bernie Sanders to get even 3% of the vote, if such a 3rd Party run is ever made. A progressive would be depicted as an unAmerican loon, a pinko socialist who wants your guns, someone who will burn your Bibles and let (usual fear suspects) rape your women, while hordes of illegals stream into your neighborhood to rob you and take your job.

    In red states now, I think Democrats are wise to deregister as Democrats, and change to Independent or Republican (if no open primary) so you can have some impact on which Republican will inevitably win in Nov.

    Follow the GOP primaries, and vote for the most sane GOP candidates. In Nov, if a Democrat has a chance, or for the Prez, one can of course, vote for whoever you want to.


    I think that is indeed the way to get a little more sanity in government. But it is not the way to reinvigorate the Democratic party. Myself, I don't care about reinvigorating the Democratic party, I "selfishly" care more about the here and now in government and not 30 years down the road. And actually, if one wants to talk 30 years down the road, I'd like to see something different than two parties with one in, and one out, over and over again, and all the problems that the two-party stranglehold gives us in Congress. That that's the way the U.S. has to be is hogwash, as we didn't always have just two parties.


    Democrats lost an election badly. The response is to vote for "moderate" Republicans, if you can find them. We are supposed to get upset when elected Democrats don't fight but we can bend over and vote Republican without batting an eye?


    A reminder that many at internet places like Firedoglake consider Obama to be no different than a moderate Republican.

    And personally, I am prone to agree with them on that point only. I just don't think of "moderate Republican" as a vicious slur.

    I include myself in this warning: beware the Dagblog bubble adjusts your vision of reality too much (in this, Resistance's continued participation is actually helpful.)


    I doubt that I have a Dagblog bubble POV. I'm often going against the tide.

    I don't find Resistance to be consistent or coherent.


    That's all folks

    Take the rafter from your own eyes first and you might see more clearly.

    I'm often going against the tide.

    Of civility? 


    Vote moderate Republican in the Primary if the GOP has a lock on your district/state, one can still vote Dem on Nov. 4.

    In most states you must be an Independent or have the Party affiliation of the Primary you are voting in.


    Yup. I've been a registered Independent since 1980, but never voted for a Republican for a national office. Works for me, not the least of which for my one-vote puny attempts at breaking the past Democratic machine strangehold in NYC.


    And it was always beyond me how people still can't see the need for party system change after the election of Independent-type Republican mayors in  overwhelmingly Democratic NYC for decades and an international movement called "the third way", and after an organization called the DLC finally made some headway in winning elections for a while. FDR's Dem party is never coming back folks, time to give it up, it's history, not current reality, it was created for a specific situation and hung on real long, but it ended, starting in the 60's, it's really not there any more, identifying with it as if it still existed is being in denial.


    FDR ushered in a Social Security plan that largely excluded Blacks. Obamacare began as much more inclusive. Given the crazy Republicans elected in the midterms, I'd still prefer the Democrat. I haven't seen anything proposed that doesn't result in more crazy Republicans.


    I agree.  History will be kinder to Obama then the opposition and people like the Koch bros. 

    "We could have National Health Insurance if we would exclude people of color. We just can't afford to include the lazy and people that are aliens," I am like Oxy I have to listen to these rants from the miss informed that went to the polls.  It is amazing the reasoning they have for voting against their communities and families best interest.  It can be quite a litany sometimes.   


    While under Bush no one was questioning the need for immigrant workers. There was a housing boom, with plenty of work for all.

    Obama takes office, slams on the brakes, bails out the bankers, housing prices collapse and the economy tanks. 

    You would think; that if Obama had supported housing instead of the banks, there wouldn't have been an outcry about shutting the border or giving amnesty.

    How much money was spent having to deal with the down turned economy and the social/  political affects, dealing with the issue of Amnesty

     VS.. 

    Supporting the housing industry and its need for workers and the tax revenue generated by the working class, to support infrastructure projects and government supported programs, to assist others.


    You cannot believe what you just wrote. If you are talking about GW Bush, the economy was tanking, unemployment was through the roof. You saw a booming economy and work for all under Bush?

    BWAHAHAHAHA!

    The economy crashed AFTER Obama took office

    BWAHAHAHAHA!

    Unbelievable!


    The economy wasn't tanking for everyone.  Some areas of the country weren't feeling the affects,

    Should I explain this to you?

    Economies rise and fall 

    A recession is when your neighbor is out of work; a depression is when you're out of work.

    The experts have never called the downturn of '07  a depression.  

    Many people were working in the Southwest particularly in Vegas and Phoenix where the housing boom was hot.

    It wasn't till the panic set in  and perceptions changed,  then the recession became the Great recession and slowed down growth nation wide. 

    Geez you couldn't have asked for better conditions,  to establish FDR politics  

    Had consumer confidence remained strong, as the Fed was hoping, we would have had only a typical recession and not the Great recession. 

    If Democrats, who are in favor of Big Government are convinced this is what the people need. Why would it be in their best interest, to let the asset class of private homeowners be the economic engine. 

    Bail out the banker and wall street class, and to hell with private ownership by the serfs.

    The bankers and Wall Street crowd will return the favor, to their capitalist supporters/ their political allies 

    Democrats could still talk the talk without doing the walk. Blame Bush and the Republicans so they would be bumped from their place at the trough and it would be the Democrats turn at the trough to get some of that desirable banker money.

    "The dumb peasants wont even know what hit em" 


    So first you blame Obama for our economic woes, and then when rmrd points out that Obama has improved the economy and that the economy tanked under Bush you have the temerity to say "Economies rise and fall"? I mean you're right, but your inconsistencies on how you approach this are astounding! This is why I have a hard time believing that you're not just having fun with us, and instead I think that you actually believe nothing that you claim to believe.


    rmrd points out that Obama has improved the economy 

    I had already addressed the inconsistencies of Obama surrogates crowing about the numbers; just in time for the election

    As Gomer would say "Surprise Surprise" 

    Unemployment is down because people have stopped looking.

    Jobs that are hiring, but don't pay diddly crap. and many are part time jobs 

    Are you one of rmrd's sock pockets? 


    A drop in unemployment from 9.6 percent(2010) to 6 percent could not happen because "people have stopped looking". Over three-quarters of part-time workers are part-time for non-economic reasons. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t08.htm#cps_empsit_a05.f.3


    I hope you didn't swallow the sinker? 


    Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?


    Resistance is consistently inconsistent.


    Im not running for President

    I express what is on my mind and if should change views, it's my prerogative.  

    Not like the others who consistently speak out;  "We are the Obamabots, we must protect the collective".

    I hate to rain on your pity party, but my heroes are Patrick Henry and Eugene Debs. Tempered by the scriptures. 

    I particularly like Debs, because his generation and their struggles, is not too far removed from the reality we see today.

     Just the names and faces have changed; the machinations are still the same.


    You change your opinion in the blink of an eye. 

     


    There have been studies about the relationship between blinking and lying. 

    So if you seem to be blinking more often, may I make a suggestion? 


    Reading is fundamental 

    You are the one changing in a blink.

    You were wrong about when the housing bubble began, but that is no surprise 

    You probably blinked through the start of the collapse.


    The housing bubble started to break in 2006 in Florida and it took a year or so to spread a round.  We already had empty sub divisions the summer before 2008 election. 


    The Southwest had much going for it. Cheap land, Wide open spaces. 

    The rust belt already nearly destroyed by Reagan and his Union busting tactics; Money and businesses moved to the Right to Work states. 

    The Southwest, a place for Union Pensioners to retire, where they didn't need to shovel snow,  could golf all year long, without mosquitoes and low humidity

    Lots of money and cheap labor (wages driven lower by undocumented workers) (Right to Work States) (Slavery).

    Perfect conditions for pensioners and those on fixed incomes. (Conservatives)


    There is a lot of work to be done. A great deal of money has been spent to alter perceptions. Whatever I can do to stop the crazy Republicans, count me in.


    FDR's Dem party is never coming back folks, time to give it up,

    I disagree, anything could come back and change is inevitable. The capitalist system is not working and desperately needs to be reset or at least tweeked. It's happened before.

    There's a quote in a Heinlein novel contemplating some horrendous outcome. One character exclaims it can't happen here, this isn't the dark ages. Jubal Harshall replies, "It isn't? I haven't noticed the difference."

    We might hope the invisible hand will restore prosperity to all. I suppose its possible. Its also possible that the peasants will once again storm the Bastille with pitchforks in hand. Think its impossible that we could ever again see the rotting corpse of the rich hanging off the local lamp post? I don't. We could very well see the re-emergence of a FDR type progressive revival. Or the embrace of a fascist regime that ends democracy in America as we know it. One thing I'm fairly certain of, change will come. Soon and substantial.

    Any way it doesn't matter to me if liberal government is never coming back. I'll never give it up. I'll continue to fight for what I believe in win or lose. Should I now support lower taxes for the rich and less environmental regulation because the republicans won? I wouldn't even if I thought we'd never win back the congress and we lost the presidency in 2016. Liberals have been losing on abortion rights for years. If Roe v Wade was overturned should I now support personhood laws?

    Even if our loss is written in the cards, and its not, I won't give up the fight.


    Change is coming soon.  It won't be Fascism(Birch/Koch) because it is tied to the conservatives and they have painted themselves into a box with racism.   In about a decade Texas and Florida will be like California demographically. The GOP isn't doing well there anymore.  

    One of the things you learn in child development is that a small child will throw a fit in a public place or at home because they trust their parents.  They just let it rip because they know their parents will keep them safe and do the right thing.  Less then 20% of the country has been having a hissy fit over the loss of Jim Crow and they trust the rest of us to keep care of them and not let them have what they think they want.

    The oligarchy is the bigest problem right now along with global warming.  Energy and Corporate food production will not survive that reality. Global warming is now accelerating faster then the models predicted. All bets are off on that now.   


    There are no easy battles. Giving up after a bad election just does not make sense.


    You're one to talk about changing positions in a blink of an eye 

    Giving up after a bad election just does not make sense.

     by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/06/2014 - 8:06pm

    Now which is your position at this hour/minute/second? Because you don't make any sense.

    Earlier you told us   We can stay home 

    Good luck to Democrats who want the Black vote. ……. If neither party takes our point of view seriously in 2016,    we can stay home
    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/06/2014 - 7:17am

    We (You) staying home..... sounds like,,,,,, you giving up?


    I'm not giving up. The fight against voter suppression and militarization of the police goes on. Stop and Frisk was curtailed by the actions of protesters who took to the courts and the streets. Moral Monday's style protests will continue. 

    Democrats lost because they moved away from Democratic principles. They ran away from Obamacare, decreased unemployment, and a  host of other issues. If Democrats can't be Democrats, then street and court activism will become the focus. There is no giving up. 

    BTW, if you Google Clinton health care plan failure, you can find articles about Republican obstruction and opposition by Bue Dog Democrats as reasons for the bills failure. You will also find that the majority of CBC voted in favored the bill but wanted more concessions that increased benefits,As I said your arguments are not coherent or factual. The CBC was not the reason that the bill failed. You have no credibility on the facts.

    Just as Whites can ask for Democrats to be Democrats when it comes to their issues, Blacks can ask Democrats to be Democrats when it comes to their issues. Whether Democrats gain backbones depends on them. If Democrats think that dissing Obama who fought against voter suppression and for gun control, etc it is very likely that they will lose in voter turnout. Those in favor of gun control will not stop their efforts despite showing up at the polls in lower number

    The battle will go on. there is no giving up

    Edit to add: here is a wiki of the reason for the bill's failure

    In August 1994, Democratic Senate Majority Leader George J. Mitchell introduced a compromise proposal that would have delayed requirements of employers until 2002, and exempted small businesses. However, "even with Mitchell’s bill, there were not enough Democratic Senators behind a single proposal to pass a bill, let alone stop a filibuster."[18]

    A few weeks later, Mitchell announced that his compromise plan was dead, and that health care reform would have to wait at least until the next Congress. The defeat weakened Clinton politically, emboldened Republicans, and contributed to the notion that Hillary Clinton was a "big-government liberal" as decried by conservative opponents.[19]

    The 1994 mid-term election became, in the opinion of one media observer, a "referendum on big government – Hillary Clinton had launched a massive health-care reform plan that wound up strangled by its own red tape."[20] In that 1994 election, the Republican revolution, led by Newt Gingrich, gave the GOP control of both the House of Representatives and the Senate for the first time since the 83rd Congress of 1953–1954, ending prospects for a Clinton-sponsored health care overhaul. Comprehensive health care reform in the United States was not seriously considered or enacted by Congress until Barack Obama's election in 2008.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

    -The CBC has noting to do with the Democratic Senate except for Carol Moseley Braun.

    We have to fact check everything you say. Wrong on when the housing bubble burst and wrong on the CBC's role in failure of the health care bill under Clinton.


    here is another timeline of the failure of the bill from memos obtained by Politico. The CBC is nowhere on the radar of concerns.

    You couldn't find a link to support your idea about the importance of the CBC IN THE BILL's failure because they were not a significant part of the failure.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/bill-hillary-clinton-health-care-r...


    I am not going to argue over what happened in  '90's I cant change what happened then 

    The example of what occurred then,  is exactly the same attitude you wrote about how the people should kiss your ,,, if we want your vote 

    It was the attitude I was illustrating, forget the 90's;  address your most current ranting threat about how people shouldn't disrespect the Black voters.  Or what will happen?

    BTW 

    The events in Ferguson may have riled up the Black voters to get out and vote, but it also riled up the Supremists, sick of the Black Community screaming about their rights and the chaos that ensued because that Black community wanted to lynch the WHITE cop.

    Then when Eric Holder interjected his voice about investigating police discrimination, the "other" people saw it for what it was, Bringing in the Race card to influence an election.  

    It backfired.

    Then when I provided the link about the outright racism directed towards Nader by members of the Black Caucus.   You went full tilt and went on the attack 

    Another one of your kiss my ... or I'll tear you down.?

    BTW 

    I"m an avid supporter of the Charles Barkley and Bill Cosby wing, of the Black voter coalition.


    Your posts are inconsistent, counterfactual, and incoherent. This is a prime example. You allege that the Congressional Black Caucus was responsible for the failure of the Clinton health care bill. You then say that you cannot find a link to support what you know that you saw. When links are provided that provide facts that cite Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats as the true culprits, you cannot admit error. You meekly say that you don't want to discuss the topic that you initiated. You know "the Blacks guys did it". Bringing up a topic then retreating is inconsistent. Blaming the CBC is counterfactual.

    I will go back to the 90s and say that the name-calling against Nader was wrong

    You note that the White voters who elected the Republicans were merely voicing their political will. Blacks who had different priorities and cast differ votes are not voicing their political opinions, they are telling everyone else to kiss their ... . Are the White Progressives who didn't vote for the GOP also sending a message to kiss their ..., or are the Black voters segregated out? The argument that one group can express their opinions via a vote and another cannot is inconsistent 

    In the past you argued that slavery was a state that should be experienced with joy. Recently you have been railing against being a slave to plutocrats and corporations. Where is your joy in being enslaved. Again inconsistent.

    If you agree with Barley and Cosby, then yo obviously support statements made by President Barack Obama.

    Let me end by saying that it is a necessity to fact check your posts. You were wrong on the housing bubble and you were wrong about the CBC. 


    You want to see Democrats get elected in the next cycle?  Give the Republicans what they are asking for:

    Take back insurance from the millions who have it for the first time; make it unaffordable for those who have ever had an injury or illness; throw graduates off their parent's policies (who cares if they don't have jobs/insurance options on their own.

    Get rid of Medicare and put seniors out there competing on a yearly basis for shitty insurance coverage.

    Get rid of Social Security (it could have the advantage of killing off the GOP voters)

    Prohibit all birth control, sex education and abortion.

    Start some new unfunded wars -- put John McCain in charge of picking who to fight with

    ....you get the idea.  Let the republicans be like the dog that finally caught the car.


    Sex should result in pregnancy. I mean what else is the POINT?

    Speaking of points, GOD tells us what we are supposed to do.

    I read that in a book.

    Oh and we should fight everybody all the time.

    So that we do not end up like them.

    the end


    CVille you and I are of the same mind.  I said it before.  I think he should let them trash the place. 

    Add to your list:

    They want a fast tract program so small and medium companies can set up production in other countries. 

    They want the GSA system to be able to buy from foreign companies.  Since the New Deal GSA only bought from US companies. It to save money.

     They want Key stone pipeline.  I can see that nasty stuff leaking.  Also when it is refined it is a high polluter.

    They want to get rid of the EPA.  Just think how quick all the ice would melt in Greenland and flood Manhattan and DC.

    They want to drill all over our National Parks and every where off of Florida.

    They want to privatize all prisons. There is a big scandal going on in South Florida of private  prison abusing inmates. Prison guards will have to work for low wages. 

    They want to get rid of head start and school lunch program.

    No more food stamps just relief hand outs of extra commodities like peanut butter butter and spam.

    They want a generous guest worker program so they can bring in who ever they want to work for low wages in what ever job they want done..  We are not talking about people to mow lawns but well educated professionals from places like India.  That is the heart of their emigration bill.

    Abolish minimum wage, unemployment, workman's comp and bring back child labor. Just think of all the jobs there will be. That is the basis of their jobs program. 


    No reason to debate  when the fiscal collapse happened. In Sept 2008 we all saw Hank Paulson get down on his knees and ask Nancy Pelosi to let him bail out the banks . Which she did and he did.

    I can understand why Resistance would have liked to have seen more bankers punished. I would have liked Obama's  choosing someone other than Tim Geithner to replace Paulson.

    But in Jan 2009 clearly Obama's A item  was to  stop the economy's free fall at 9 or 10 % instead of 19, or 20 or whatever it might have become.(Ron  Suskind's  "The Confidence Men" is a good description of that period ) . To govern is to choose. And he chose.


    Here are the actual unemployment %s

    Year Jan  Feb Mar Apr May Jun    Jul  Aug Sep Oc t Nov Dec

    l2004 5.7  5.6  5.8  5.6  5.6   5.6     5.5  5.4  5.4   5.5  5.4  5.4
    2005  5.3 5.4  5.2  5.2  5.1   5.0      5.0  4.9  5.0    5.0  5.0  4.9
    2006  4.7 4.8  4.7  4.7  4.6   4.6      4.7  4.7  4.5    4.4  4.5  4.4
    2007  4.6 4.5  4.4  4.5  4.4   4.6      4.7  4.6  4.7    4.7  4.7  5.0
    2008  5.0 4.9  5.1  5.0  5.4   5.6      5.8  6.1  6.1    6.5  6.8  7.3
    2009 7.8   Obama starts

                     8.3   8.7  9.0  9.4   9.5      9.5  9.6  9.8  10.0  9.9  9.9
    2010  9.7  9.8   9.9  9.9  9.6   9.4      9.5  9.5  9.5    9.5  9.8   9.4
    2011  9.1  9.0   9.0  9.1  9.0   9.1      9.0  9.0  9.0   8.8  8.6   8.5
    2012  8.2  8.3   8.2  8.2  8.2   8.2      8.2  8.1  7.8   7.8  7.8   7.9
    2013  7.9  7.7   7.5  7.5  7.5   7.5      7.3  7.2  7.2   7.2  7.0    6.7
    2014  6.6  6.7   6.7  6.3  6.3   6.1     6.2  6.1  5.9   5.8

     


    Obama and the Democrats come into power and the job creators panic 

    I am not surprised 

    2009 7.8   Obama starts

                     8.3   8.7  9.0  9.4   9.5 

    Investors understand the correlation between money/risk and tax policy and it's affect on our economy.

    I suspect Obama did too, when he didn't allow the Bush tax cuts to expire.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    2014  6.6  6.7  6.7   6.3   6.3   6.1     6.2  6.1  5.9   5.8

    Is there any correlation between these numbers and Obama's favorable / dis-favorable 

    Did the financial sharks, smell the blood in the water and thought it was a good time to invest again? 

    Obama talks of green shoots but US shoppers stay at home   April 2009  

    2009 7.8   Obama starts

                     8.3   8.7  9.0  9.4   9.5      9.5  9.6  9.8  10.0  9.9  9.9

    Obama and the Democrats made the wrong choice right out of the gate and never recovered.

     Wall street made money though and corporations sat on money rather than invest and create jobs in America, 


    I agree with your assessment of the replacing Paulson with Geithner. 

    To govern is to choose.

    There are folks who are suggesting letting the Republicans cut their own throats, by giving them what they want and this in turn will return the Democrats back to power. 

    Had the Democrats under the leadership of Obama have allowed the the bankers and the economy to fall the  20 or whatever,

    The Democrats would have ruled for decades after the crisis was over; just as they had  during and after the Great Depression, re-electing FDR and the Democrats, election after election.

    Instead the Obama and the Democrats didn't make it a shared sacrifice, so that all would see the distinction between the Democrats and the Republicans.   

    The voters would have associated the Republicans as the supporters of bankers and the Democrats supporting the people. 

    Instead the lines are blurred. Both parties put the bankers, ahead of the people.


    I know you're not making a suggestion, just exploring a road not taken. Those seem to be just  numbers above (which I painfully typed in) but while we'll never know their stories one can be sure that each  number that increased represents a certain number of human beings who decided  life was not worth it and committed suicide.

    Just as ,IMO, each increase in the numbers for Obamacare reflects a certain number who didn't.


    What conclusion would you have drawn?

    Anyone who has been following rmrds character assaults, questioning my perceptions or claims; here is but one source that relates the knowledge of events and perceptions back then.

    I made the charge and strongly believe that the Black Caucus, wanting concessions, before; it would back the Clinton Healthcare reform and without the concessions led to the demise of the Healthcare compromise bill.

    Imagine how many people were made to suffer because of a caucus’ selfish plan to extract concessions; putting their own self- interest first

    The Black Caucus Has Clinton Running Scared ...

    On July 26, he met with caucus members, who are steamed over his Haiti policy and his stance on a pending crime bill. Clinton had little choice. He desperately needs to mend relations with the 40-member caucus for upcoming votes on health-care and welfare reform. Says a top White House aide: "The President was concerned that this group know that they are valuable members of the team."

    The constituency posing the biggest problem is the Congressional Black Caucus. It has stuck by Clinton's legislative programs even though members were upset that he dropped his urban jobs program and abandoned civil-rights-post nominee Lani Guinier in the face of conservative pressure. But the caucus is furious that Clinton has distanced himself from a provision in the crime bill that would allow racial data to be used to challenge the death penalty. "This is a question of principle," says Representative Albert R. Wynn (D-Md.)

    The caucus may send Clinton a message by helping the GOP block a floor vote on the crime bill. It's also demanding that the Administration try to preserve minority congressional districts under assault in the courts. And it wants an extensive jobs program to accompany the proposed two-year limit on welfare benefits. But that could doom reform. "If they raise the ante, there could be no bill or a Republican bill," says a White House official.

    Clinton health care plan of 1993 - Wikipedia, the free ...

    In August 1994, Democratic Senate Majority Leader George J. Mitchell ... A few weeks later, Mitchell announced that his compromise plan was dead, and that  ...

    What conclusion would you have drawn?

    But as I wrote I had other information at the time, to draw upon. It is difficult to find others source these many years after the fact.

     Is it bad form or wrong to state what I knew at the time?


    Resistance, again incoherence. The article is about The Congressional Black Caucus being upset about the crime bill, not the health care bill. Reading is fundamental. The CBC backed Clinton on several other bills and got nothing in return. The article says nothing about the health care bill. The links I provided talk about the health care bill. The CBC was not a major factor

    Since you post about the crime bill, let us review what the CBC did. The majority of the CBC voted in favor of the crime bill. At the time the CBC was credited with possibly saving Clinton's Presidency by saving the bill, according to the Baltimore Sun.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-08-18/news/1994230118_1_black-cauc...

    The crime bill helped usher in the "war on Drugs" the ravaged the African-American community. The CBC bent over and supported Clinton. Here is the breakdown of the vote.

    http://www.crewof42.com/cbc-2/the-11-in-the-black-caucus-who-voted-no-on...

    Nothing in either of your links say anything about the health care bill. Your article notes the disappointment of the CBC on getting nothing for supporting prior bills. I provide links that note that at the end of the day, the CBC supported Clinton on a questionable bill. Your claim about the CBC is counterfactual.


    We'll let others decide.

    I am sure by now and others would agree it is YOU who cant read or comprehend what you've  read.

    You wrote 

    Nothing in either of your links say anything about the health care bill.

    From the article 

    Second sentence, if that will help you?  I hope you can count. 

    Clinton had little choice. He desperately needs to mend relations with the 40-member caucus for upcoming votes on health-care and welfare reform

    Nothing in either of your links say anything about the health care bill.

    Is this one of your trick comments/antics meant to deceive?


    No deception. The CBC is not mentioned as a stumbling block on the health care bill. The article headlines problems between Clinton and the CBC but the CBC voted the way Clinton wanted him to. This included the crime bill. The CBC grumbled but voted Clinton's way.

    Show an article that labels the CBC as a critical stumbling block in the final analysis of why the health care bill failed. The welfare form bill had large Republican support. The CBC was not a factor

    The CBC is not the culprit in health care bill, welfare reform, or the crime bill under Clinton. The CBC did not cause the Clinton health care bill to fail. Welfare reform passed so the the CBC was not a factor. The crime bill passed with the majority support of the CBC. The Black guys did not do it.

    You can perform all the contortions that you want. There is no support for the idea that the CBC was responsible for the failure of health care reform. A snippet in an article may suggest that Clinton was running scared of the CBC. It makes a good soundbite, but it is not supported by the facts.

    Yor articles give NO support for your premise. You report on a crime bill that was supported by the CBC and a welfare reform bill that passed. You only have your imagination telling you that health care failed in 1994 because of your concrete belief.

    Reviewing the data, the CBC was supportive of Clinton even risking the ire of their constituents. George Mitchell saying the bill does not equal that the bill died because of the CDC. You are doing snippets again. You cannot find any article that ties the failure to the CBC. You ignore the Republicans and the Blue Dog Democrats and place the blame on the CBC. WHY?

     

     


    When Clinton faced impeachment, many Democrats distanced themselves from the President. The CBC was among the most ardent supporters of William Jefferson Clinton. 

    http://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/091398clinton-blacks.html

    The CBC supported Clinton. You err when you say they were a major obstacle. The CBC was on Clinton's side at the end of the day when it came to legislation. 

    To summarize your position, Blacks voters do not have the right to disagree with what White voters desire. Whites can express any view, but Black are telling people to kiss their behinds. Why do you believe that Blacks voters cannot express independent views?

    Why do you ignore the massive data showing opposition to Clinton's health care views by White Republicans and Democrats and blame the CBC?

    Why is slavery so awful for you, but something to be tolerated with joy by others?

    Your arguments are incoherent and counterfactual.


    This would have been a great discussion. but as was shown upstream, you cant read and only want to argue over straw men. 

    Then ask Why?

    I could go back throughout this thread pointing out the Why? But it is clear either you didn't read or want to refuse to accept the role the Black community played in helping to defeat Clinton Health care plan.  

    To refresh your memory of WHY? It was yours and the CBC's  ATTITUDE, Even your point of view  about if the demands of the Black community are not met or heard, supported the conclusion I drew.

     You believe that the tail (minority) should wag the dog, or you'll pout and stay home if the Democrats ignore your demands. 

    Clinton needed to present a unified front, against the Republican forces, who knew blocking the Clinton agenda, would end up disastrous for the Democrats in the next election.

    Clinton didn't need every Tom, Dick and Harry demanding concessions in the sausage making process  needed to garner the votes.

    BTW I guess I could have worded it differently "the CBC helped defeat or helped killed the Bill"  instead of they "killed the bill" as though to imply they alone did it;  giving you cause to divert attention from the role the CBC played 

    As Hillary would say "What damn difference does it make" 

    That the circle of Democratic friends and allies; Clinton needed to get the bill passed, joined with the complete Republican opposition.

    The CBC and other Democrats joined the circle and were complicit and instrumental in "stoning" the Bill to death.

    Your defense for the betrayal; "It just wasn't the CBC; everyone else helped kill the bill". as though that should exonerate the CBC. 

    The CBC was warned. The CBC demands would not help get the needed votes.

    Other Democrats felt; If CBC could extract concessions, why not every one else tack on some of their own agenda for their votes   

    You then make a link in support of an entirely different subject discussing the Crime Bill. You joining in the chorus with the CBC  about it's stance on the crime Bill.

    I guess the crime bill for the CBC was more important than Healthcare?.

    BTW, What did the CBC think about losing 53 Democratic seats to the "Contract on America" Republican majority and the crime bills they presented.  

    I was discussing Healthcare and the only reason the crime Bill was mentioned in the article is this was a sticking point for the CBC.

    Instead the threat of joining the Republicans in blocking the crime bill aided and abetted the Clinton opposition forces. who would also fight against the American peoples, including Minorities need of a Healthcare Bill.

    The results of the lack of unification by the Democrats including some members of the CBC led to the catastrophic Republican control  under Gingrich. 

    The Democrats lost 52 House seats and control of Congress. It changed everything for the worse for the Democrats including minorities. 

    Here is another example of yours and others within the black community ATTITUDE problems 

    To summarize your position, Blacks voters do not have the right to disagree with what White voters desire. Whites can express any view, but Black are telling people to kiss their behinds. Why do you believe that Blacks voters cannot express independent views?

    You summarize my position, so as to put it in a bad light 

    I didn't say Black people do not have a right to disagree, but when we are in the heat of battle, fighting for an objective that all Democrats, including Black voters, will benefit from;  it is not the time to focus only on the Blacks and their demands, because they feel left out and the Black community is always suspect, that it is another of the Whites trying to dominate. 

    Did the Black community believe the Clinton Healthcare Plan would exclude them? 

    Why do you believe that Blacks voters cannot express independent views?

    Again, you want to twist thoughts. I don't want to suppress independent thought; only their is a time and a place and the time is not when the battle lines have been drawn and one group complains and begins demoralizing the troops, whining about how the generals/ leadership doesn't care about us , and with their grumbling and crying "woe is us" leaving  a flank open to be exploited by the enemy.  

    Go ahead at your own peril, the majority isn't going to let the tail (minority) wag the dog. 

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Albert Einstein

    Your threats about staying home if both parties ignore the Black voters, is just like you said. makes no sense.

    Again another display of a Problematic Attitude.

    Keep crying about your lack of prominence, in a majority take all, and those tired of losing, will find another base to depend on for support, in order to get legislation that serves THEIR needs.  Not depending upon a minority who just might stay home if their demands are not met.


    YOU brought up the crime bill in YOUR response. The crime bill was first mentioned by you. Now you feign amnesia.

    The CBC backed Clinton on a variety of bills and got nothing in return. They did think about others. You completely overlooked the fact that the CBC backed Clinton on entire host of bills. They backed Clinton during impeachment. 

    There was no tail wagging the dog. Blue Dog Democrats and republicans scuttled the health care bill. As you pointed out, you could not find a link that supports your thesis. Thus I conclude that even in the absence of any evidence that they were a major obstacle, you blame the CBC. If every CBC member voted for the bill, what would the Senate vote have been?

    The tail wagging the dog is a figment of your imagination.

    The CBC was the largest block of Clinton supporters in Congress up to and including impeachment

    You are wrong about the CBC


     "A Detailed Timeline of the Healthcare Debate portrayed in 'The System'"Online NewsHour (PBS).

    June 20, 1994 - Hillary Clinton calls in a hundred representatives of labor, senior citizen, consumer, and supportive health care providers and reads them the riot act. She warns them that time is running out and urges them to stop focusing on their own concerns and focus on the universal coverage goal.

    Pounding the lectern in front her, she blames her allies for taking it for granted that Congress will pass a bill and "asking for this and that" to be included. Keep on seeking your "parochial victories," she warns, "and you'll end up with no bill being passed -- or a bill so weak the President will veto it."

    From the Bloomberg article

    The Black Caucus Has Clinton Running Scared ...

    On July 26, he met with caucus members,

    (Speaking of the CBC)

    It's also demanding that the Administration try to preserve minority congressional districts under assault in the courts. And it wants an extensive jobs program to accompany the proposed two-year limit on welfare benefits.

     But that could doom reform. "If they raise the ante, there could be no bill or a Republican bill," says a White House official.

    Late Summer 1994 - While Gephardt tries to line up votes, Foley tries to quell a vicious battle over committee jurisdiction. The President's most important policy initiative is hanging by a thread; a historic commitment of the Democratic Party is facing imminent defeat; an election disaster is looming. And for almost an entire month, committee chairmen and staffers on Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce, and Education and Labor use every weapon they can find to stake out the widest possible jurisdictions for themselves to maintain. future control of a program that might not even pass.

    August 11, 1994 - Foley and Gephardt try to bring the crime bill before the full House for debate and then a vote. They know the procedural vote to begin debate will be close but they expect to prevail.

    Instead after fifty eight Democrats bolt their party and join the opposition.

    Congressional leaders announce that health care will be delayed indefinitely. Delay and obstruction also tie up the Senate.

     

    But the caucus is furious that Clinton has distanced himself from a provision in the crime bill that would allow racial data to be used to challenge the death penalty.

    The caucus may send Clinton a message by helping the GOP block a floor vote on the crime bill.

    The Black Caucus Has Clinton Running Scared ...

    Fifty eight Democrats did bolt their party and join the opposition.  

    Early August 1994 - Senate and House leaders begin rallying their Democratic majorities behind two pending measures. The first is the crime bill, which has already passed by both houses and been agreed to in a Senate-House conference. Once it is approved, Democrats believe they can pass the respective health bills of Mitchell and Gephardt before the summer break, and then head home well positioned to defend their records before voters in the November elections.

    To Late 

    Democrats lose control of the message,  because according to the article, the CBC instead of backing the President, wanted to play  SEND THE PRESIDENT A MESSAGE?

    The CBC:  "THEY DEMAND"  "THEY ALSO WANT 

    Delaying and obstructing the counter against the "Harry and Louise"  ads, the members upon going home tried to play catchup.


    Resistance read what you posted. You are combining a crime bill and a health care bill as fif they are the same. When it came time for the vote on the crime bill, the majority of the CBC supported the bill 23 pro vs 11 con. That is the crime bill. You are bringing up the crime bill again. Despite concern from their constituents about harsh penalties in the crime bill, the majority of CBC members voted for the bill. The article says Clinton was running scared because of the crime bill, but the CBC voted for the bill

    Can we be done with the crime bill?

    Clinton got what he wanted from the CBC. The CBC gave the wishes of others more value than the wishes of their constituents.

    Do you understand that fact?

    HEALTH CARE

    Here is another view of the health care bill

    https://historyrat.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/1993-health-care-reform-almo...

    Your article regarding Hillary's riot act reading does not include the CBC. The CBC wanted more benefits included in the bill, but the bill was sent to the rash heap by others. What part of that fact do you not comprehend?

    WHY DO YOU FOCUS ON THE CBC?


    You blame Blacks in the CBC for the Clinton health care bill failure. You blames Blacks and Ferguson for the mid-term defeats. Blacks are always whining and never sacrifice for others. You ignore the actual record of the CBC during the Clinton years.

    You are also ignoring the impact of GOP gerrymandering on voting results. Note if Blacks remain silent about voter suppression and gerrymandering, Democrats will never win the House again.Here are charts noting how the House vote is rigged

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/chart-why-dems-cant-win-house

    If Blacks stay silent. nothing will change and the House will be lost forever.


    No you've got it wrong, had the Black Community in Ferguson, not been so fast to raise the specter of racism; because the Black Community was so certain, absolutely certain, that because the cop was WHITE, the community  would not wait for the truth to come out, they made sure they'd be noticed.

    Night after night on the Evening news they marched, they clashed with police, rioting and looting. I saw it on National TV like millions of other viewers, because the Black Community of Ferguson wanted us to see it.

    It wasn't enough that some protesters weren't content with limiting their voices because they said it was their right; they disrupted family gatherings to make sure Michael Brown was remembered 

    Well guess what?  Americans did see it night after night and they did remember and they exercised THEIR Right and they voted.

    You ignore the actual record of the CBC during the Clinton years.

    Edited to add   What was the actual record of the Ferguson incident?

    I told you already there really isn't anything we could do now, with what happened in the 90's it is too late.  But there were lessons to be learned, So we wouldn't have to continue suffering defeat 

    The discussion was about Problematic attitude. How you and others would stay home if you didn't get your way.

    But YOU would "ignore the actual recorded record " of the Ferguson riots, leading up to the mid-term elections..

    As one Dagblogger noted; "People didn't vote for tax cuts for the rich, they voted in protest" 

    Without looting and rioting.

    If Blacks stay silent. nothing will change and the House will be lost forever.

    If the Black Community in Ferguson, would have exercised their voices judicially, I believe the Supremists wouldn't have had the results, they got on election night. 

    Had the CBC not thrown racial slurs in an effort to discredit Nader, we may have had a champion to fight against Corporatism.

    Go ahead exercise your right to speak, but don't expect it won’t have consequences.

    You are also ignoring the impact of GOP gerrymandering

    No I am not, that is why the defeat of the signature legislation of Clinton Healthcare bill,  in behalf of promises he made to the Democrats; was so much more important,

    The Republicans took control over everything.  

    If you really believe Hillary, the Champion of the Clinton Healthcare Bill, would have come right out and pointed the fingers directly at the CBC; her knowing her desires to seek an elective office. 

    You're naive 


    A common mistake that people often make is thinking that most people believe the same things I do. It happens across the board, from liberals to far right conservatives. Reading polls and spending some time analyzing them in depth is the cure for that. I long ago realized that my far left views often don't match the views of the majority of the public. That's why I've come to accept that I'll have to pick between centrists I don't much like, Obama and Hillary, when I'd prefer Kucinich or Elizabeth Warren.

    Exit polls are very clear about why people voted. Majorities, sometimes overwhelming majorities, say it was the economy, jobs and stagnating wages. Ferguson was at most a blip. If people felt the economy was improving it wouldn't have any effect. People felt the economy was bad so if there had been no unrest in Ferguson they still wouldn't have voted for the party mostly in control.

    Just as your views on gun control don't match the majority of the public. Majorities favor many of the gun control proposals. They just don't care enough to base their vote on them. It's not a priority. If gun control was a ballot question most states would pass many of them even some red states. Just as the background check initiative passed in Washington state with 60% of the vote. If that question was on the ballot majorities would vote for it even though in some states they would vote in republicans that are against gun control.


    Red states voted in Republicans who were against the minimum wage even thought they same voters cast votes in favor of an increased minimum wage for the state.


    If people felt the economy was improving it wouldn't have any effect. People felt the economy was bad so if there had been no unrest in Ferguson they 

    Older people collecting pensions and Social Security weren't worried about jobs or the economy, except they'd have preferred higher interest paid on their money, but not at the expense of higher taxes. They want to protect their principle and the democrats scared them. 

    All the fear mongering about the "Republicans want to steal your SS" wasn't as bad as the message "Democrats want to take your hard earned money; you've worked so hard for and give it so someone else.

    Who were the someone else, "The ones burning down Ferguson" 

    I heard it in the cafes;  Taxing them to pay for Obamacare, when the country already had a Healthcare plan.

    That is why the message "Medicare for all: was better than Obamacare. 

    "Another, give away our money"  by the socialist Obama and the Democrats. Was what I heard.

    Another of what I heard " Isn't 17 trillion  dollar debt enough.  " Inflation is coming and those on fixed incomes better worry" 


    What you heard in cafes is not reflective of how those outside of your circle felt. Just as in the case of the 1994 CBC and the Clinton health care bill, you are relying on yourself as the beacon of fact. Your sample size is too small.


    Yeah, what rmrd said. Your sample size is too small. If I were to just look at my friends I would assume that the vast majority of people want an activist government with a far left agenda. Most of my friends are pretty liberal. One thing I learn from most polls is quite often a plurality or a majority of the public disagrees with me, and my friends. Not always, occasionally I'm in the largest plurality, but mostly I'm in the minority on most questions.


    I just want to say Ocean-Kat, that your words are just what I needed to hear.  I always read what you write, and I always get an interesting perspective from you, but this theme (really what you said one comment up) was very enlightening.  Thank you.

    Too bad resistance doesn't have the self-awareness to learn from your comment.  

     

     

     


    One things for certain though,  CVille should not be confused with being civil.

     


    If Blacks stay silent. nothing will change and the House will be lost forever.

    It might be lost to those, who want to blame White cops or as they did calling Nader   "You're just another arrogant white man – telling us what we can do – it's all about your ego – another f—king arrogant white man."

    Other voters might just leave them to wallow in their own tears.

    Voters  might decide, to electing moderate Republicans to get control of the House, without all the insults and losing elections.


    The CBC Is an organization. It is composed of different individuals over time. Since the CBC is not a living , breathing single person. You should identify Mel Watt as the person alleged to have made the statement.

    You began this argument with your belief that the 1990s CBC was a major factor in failure of the 1994 health care bill. You admit you have no evidence. There was no filibuster- proof Democratic vote in the Senate, yet you focus on the CBC as the bad actors. The CBC were the strongest Bill Clinton supporters in the 1990s. Your only response is to pretend to be able to read the mind of Hillary Clinton in the 1990s. Pathetic.

    Can you find a reliable link that says that Ferguson was the main reason that the Democrats lost the midterms? Or is it just your imagination again?


    I am through discussing this with you, we will just have to agree to disagree.

    But I suspect you wont understand what I just wrote.


    Who are the "they" who called Ralph Nader a name and wanted a review of the shooting in Ferguson? 


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